GSD,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> One thing he expressed to me was that he suddenly found himself saying "Oh my god, I'm 31." He really wants a family and kids and he is dissapointed that his life has changed<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Man can I relate. I will be 31 next month and that thought has really been going through my mind lately. I know that I am still young, but I already had my life planned out with one person. Now how I am going to be expected to meet someone new, build a relationship, fall in love, get married and have kids before I’m past my prime to be a new father? My BIL was about 40 before he became a father for the first time, but I don’t want to wait that long. But at the same time, I don’t want to get involved until I’m ready either. <P>This type of situation pretty much sucks if you ask me!<BR>

Jayhawk,<P>I'm 41, and I'm just coming into my prime as a father It's not how old you are. There are men who are great fathers at any age, and men who never will be. <P>My dad married a very nice lady with a 7 and 9 year old son when he was 52, and helped raise them into very good men (even the one who went to Mizzou )<P>I know you hear that biological clock ticking, but don't worry about it. You've got plenty of time.<P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

711-<P>Exactly how did you put things on hold after that amount of time? What did you change? I don't want to not see him, but I also don't know if it will be possible to keep things casual. We had such great chemistry and we just clicked. <P>Jayhawk-<BR>I've been wondering when you'd pipe up . Yea, this sucks. It's like I know better, but my heart pulling me. I agreed with him when he told me how he felt. I could relate to EVERYTHING he was saying: especially the part about finding peace. His wife left sort of suddenly (not as suddenly as yours) but he didn't know it was coming. He was married for 8 years; I for only 3. There is a difference there. <P>I thought I was ok and then Thanksgiving weekend hit. I had a wedding that Saturday and my hearing was the next Tuesday. It was like a flood happened. Feast or famine. BUT-- I still find myself rationalizing why it's worth taking a chance. How crazy is that? It's fun (I can relate to exactly what 711 is saying): you are having such a good time that you just don't think. I like him and his company. I just wonder if I am capable of making a wise decision or just jumping in with my eyes closed and making another mistake and getting hurt. All the self doubt. ARRGGH.

Oh, I thought about what WIFFT said about matching needs: <BR>education wise: he has to be intelligent, ambitious, and likes learning. College is unimportant as long as he is a good provider and responsible.<BR>Personality wise: thinker and feeler, sensitive, likes to talk, honest, and open, Extroverted<BR>Interests: must like dogs and activity; likes to read and have intelligent conversations about the world. <BR>Goals: family oriented, rooted, security minded<BR>Sexually: adventuresome and openminded; romantic<P>pretty basic. I am still working on my list. I am sure there are things I will discover as time passes.<P>QUESTION: I bought him a Christmas gift: a shirt and a book about the ocean. What do I do with the gift?????<p>[This message has been edited by gsd (edited December 18, 2000).]

Have you noticed how so many people here say their x's new interest is the opposite of them? <P>Add that observation to the fact that so many second, or third, or ..... marriages fail because the people are making the same mistake(s) all over again.<P>What should we learn from that? Comments please!<P>I need to figure this one out. I sure don't want to make the same mistakes. Don't want a man as emotionally shut down as x. Deserve to be loved. But I will admit x had some good qualities - earned decent money and could fix things. (Not himself, but that's different from mechanical things.) But I sure want to learn from my mistakes.

Wow gsd, great list. <P>Regarding what to do with the gifts, a little tougher & basically up to you. I'd probably return the shirt & go ahead & give the book, as a gesture of friendship, or if you are uncomfortable with that, return them both and send a card. Mostly, it would depend on what you are comfortable with.<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

GSD<P>Change education level to intelligence level, <P>you want someone very close to yours, what every this. Basically you don't want to be married to a rocket scientist if you have problems with math, science and the large picture.<P>Please add conflict management style/problem solving skills.<P>What's yours and what are you looking for in a mate?<P>Cinderella, <P>go through the same list.<P>remember its all about you.<P>BTW, what Briggs and myers letters/<BR>personality type are you? that would help.<P>WIFTT<BR>

gsd: You asked how I was able to put my relationship on hold. It wasn't easy but one of the unresolved issues from my past came up unexpectedly and needed to be dealt with before we could continue on in our relationship. He understood this because we had discussed it many times before so he respected (although he didn't like it) my decision to take some time to work out my issues. He also had some remaining issues that needed to be worked out. We started out taking a break but now we are broken up because I think it is too hard for us to be in limbo right now. <P>The hardest thing about this is we really had gone into this relationship with the attitude that we were living for the moment and if we got hurt we could deal with it and learn and move on. But, when it gets right down to it, it's not fun when you have to go through this stage. We still email now and then but that's it. It is strange going from "full steam ahead" to practically nothing but it is the right thing to do at this time.<P>Who knows what my future holds now. But, I know next time I'm going to go much slower. <P>What's our motto - Take your time??<P>The one thing I was told by my therapist is that sometimes we need to do things that others will tell us we should not do. We have to go through some experiences in order to learn lessons in life. So, this I believe was one of my first lessons since my divorce. Live and learn.

I have no idea if I am double posting so forgive me. I can't seem to go back and read replies sometimes either.<P>Should I give this guy the Christmas present I bought for him two weeks ago? It was a button up shirt and a book on the ocean. <P>Also, I sent my ex a Christmas card? Anyone else do that?

gsd, <P>by giving it, it would be a sign that you want the relationship to continue. Is that the message you want to give?<P>The present says I am thinking of you.<P>WIFTT

Finally can read posts...<P>WIFFT: ESTJ. The middle two are reaalllyy fuzzy. I swing back and forth each time I take it.<P>Conflict resolution: very forward; I appreciate frankness. <P>About the gift. Do I want the relationship to continue? Hmmm. Is that a loaded question?<P>711. Thanks for the input. Sounds like a good experience. I am chalking this up to that too. My foolish mistake this time will prevent future heartache. He must be wiser than I for putting the breaks on. Gotta respect that. (Which makes him more desirable. . . . ;?)

Concerning the gifts - take back the shirt. Maybe give him the book. That does leave the door open. But, maybe this is one of those cases where you need to let him know he's free to go. After all, he put on the brakes. Guy I was dating put the brakes on and I haven't heard from him except the one time I needed a piece of information he had so I called for one question. And he called to order some photographs I had taken.<P>Tom - for your information, I am an ENFP, I think.

hmmmmm, i have found out that i get along real well with FP's. they are pretty cool people.<P>tom

I've been seperated since september..and have been on a couple dates..the first man we went out a few times...spent a lot of time together and for me since my stbx was gone <BR>all the time I got emotionally attached really quick..and backed off..because it scared me..he was agreeable and we quit spending as much time together and just<BR>talk on the phone he told me recently that<BR>the worst part of being single was sleeping<BR>alone..I had to laugh at that because for me<BR>thats how my marriage has been for nine years..sleeping alone since stbx's job took<BR>him away all but maybe one weekend a month...<BR>and even then he still wasn't here..but I said if thats the worst part of being single<BR>I have that down pat..(actually tired of sleeping alone)but, he and I quit seeing each other again and he told me I need to enjoy<BR>the single life..make new friends, and get out and do things w/ friends..so I went on another date..w/ someone I haven't seen in almost 20 yrs..we had a blast..went to dinner, a movie and then for coffee..<P>and then I had a friend ask me to a new years<BR>eve party..something I haven't done in many many years..they have mostly been spent home alone with the kids..stbx in bed by nine if he happened to be in town..I think in nine years we may have spent four new years in the same place..which was more times than we spent our anniversary together..and those he spent drunk..so this year..stbx is taking the kids to his moms to celebrate christmas with her..and I am going out of town to celebrate the new year..<P>I guess thats one reason I feel I don't belong here..because all of you have been married and spending time with your spouses<BR>day in and day out for years, where I have been married nine years..and have spent seven of the nine years alone..

Okay,<P>I have been keeping a low profile on this thread, because I've been trying to let it all sink in and get a feeling for where you are at. Since I'm an INFP, I can almost "read your mind/read your feelings" by listening for a little while. <P>The most important things I have learned since the stbx left in Feb. and since I've been struggling, working, learning and growing ever since is to GET TO KNOW YOURSELF. If you don't know yourself, you can't be yourself in a relationship and you can't truly give yourself as the person deserves. The work of getting to know yourself is like a prerequisite to having a solid foundation for a solid relationship, and until you take the time to understand yourself, it is pretty much impossible to date successfully (assuming the goal in dating is to really get to know and connect to another person. If your goal is hanging out with a friend--no romantic intentions, then it's a little different). <P>Anyway, I agree with Tom, that you need to examine several things. One, is how you contributed to your past relationships demise; these are the areas you will probably need to learn more about and develop in. For example, for me, I contributed by not meeting his needs, by love busting a lot, by tearing him down, and by not being completely clear and blunt about what how I felt. Another thing to consider is what kind of person YOU are: the Myers/Briggs personality indicator is a great start. Try to learn about you--what you like and dislike, what makes you feel safe, what makes you feel comforted, what lessons you have learned and what lessons you need to learn. Finally, think about the kind of partner you need, now that you know how you contributed before and now that you know about you. <P>In fact, I do have a certain person that I am starting to think about. We started off as friends, joking around and having fun. Then, I got to know him a little more, and realized that our personality types were very similar--yet different enough to be educational to both of us. Now, I've gotten to know him even more, and he has very many of the qualities I am looking for--both qualities I need and qualities I would wish for. FYI, I personally considered the following. First are basics, next are prerequisites, and last are things I'd wish for:<P>BASICS<BR>1. A personality close to my INFP or compatible.<BR>2. Intelligence equal to or exceeding my own. A very, very quick brain, and a college education or equivalent.<BR>3. An over-achieving, goal-oriented, hard worker (because that's what I am!)<BR>4. A high sex drive (because that's what I am) or at least a great interest in sex.<P>PREREQUISITES<BR>1. Trust. Having been a "dumpee", I'm sorry to say, I'm not very trusting, so I need someone willing to take the time to win my trust.<BR>2. Joy of Life. Some folks call this a sense of humor, but I've expanded that to be someone who has joy in their heart, who enjoys life and expresses it, and if possible, someone who is funny and who makes me laugh and who laughs at/with me <BR>3. A soft and gentle answer. It's too long to go into here, but I need a gentle man, plain and simple. I've had too many years of anger and abuse.<BR>4. Know my limits. This basically means that I need someone who'll take the time to get to know me, get to know my limits, and make the effort to not go beyond my limits. <BR>5. Grow and Learn. I need someone who wants to grow and learn to be a better man, and who encourages me to grow and learn to be a better CJ!<P>WISH LIST:<BR>1. Love the ocean, the sea, the mist.<BR>2. Sporty, but not a fanatic.<BR>3. Handsome enough to be attractive.<BR>4. Near my age (38yo)<BR>5. A comediene<BR>6. A little smarter than me, so I can learn from him.<BR>7. Enjoy some of the same hobbies/interests that I do, and have a few different ones too.<BR>8. A few physical, personal preferences.<BR>9. Have dreams and goals, and work to reach those dreams and goals.<P>Pretty demanding, huh? Well, I honestly thought I would be spending the next several years getting my kids grown up and out of the house (about 7 years until the youngest is 18yo), plus I figured no REAL man would ever stand up to those stringent requirements. OOPS, then suddenly he tripped over me (literally), and now I'm still in shock. <P>Well, good luck. Hope this has been helpful!<P>CJ<BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

testing

Ok. Great post. I thought I would be alone regarding this. I also have very little perspective: I keep thinking that every chance is my last. Definitely not healthy to get involved in a relationship with that attitude. I think that fear will pass as I have never quite been so fearful as I am now.<P>I made a list a while back naming my "needs" in a person. It was quite long and specific. Unfortunately (??) I went back and looked at that list and found that he had all but one of the 37 characteristics I was looking for. (He is an occasional smoker.) Now I need to add one: he must know himself and not be afraid of intimacy. That is a biggie. THat and the fact that no matter how many positive qualities someone has, nothing will ever work if the timing is wrong.

GSD,<P>well, how about keep looking, and have a date with him every couple of months or so. If he has 26 out of 27 qualities, give him time, and keep in touch. maybe too much too soon was not good for any of your next relationships.<P>could be every other week for something is a good start for your next relationship. <P>something to think about for all of us rebounders here <P>tom<P>tom

I second that emotion!<P>I have been in situations where I felt very strongly and it was pretty intense, but luckily (and thankfully) both of us had the good common sense to say, "Whoa! Let's slow down a little." <P>Slow is good. You can build a good solid foundation upon which to build. You can really get to know each other well. Plus, to be honest, taking your sweet time is fun! <P>So, although the meteor is more flashy and prettier, the glowing ember is hotter. Go for the intense heat, and take your time!<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Hey gsd,<P>great thread.<P>I don't have much to contribute, I'm still way too confused about everything that has happened.....<P>However, having said that, I'm going to the movies tonight with a MAN..... omg.......<P>He was actually a passenger that left his number with groundstaff when he got off the flight. I met him for lunch about 3 weeks ago, went with the attitude "why the heck am I doing this" and ended up staying at the restaurant 5 hours!!!!!!! We just talked and talked and talked. (BTW, although numerous people have given me their ph. numbers on flights, I have NEVER taken them up on it. It's not something I feel comfortable doing. This time, I thought why not. He seemed nice and gentle, not flashy or a sleaze) He told me at lunch he got off the flight and had a fight with "himself" about whether to do it..... The fact that he had doubts told me a great deal. That he wasn't a sleaze.<P>Anyway, he is just about to be divorced himself, so your post was of great interest to me. I am certainly not looking for any great romantic relationship, in fact, I'm not looking for a relationship at all. But if I have found a friend that I can spend time with, and do some male/female things with, I'll be happy with that. <P>This guy does not even have my home phone no. He only has my mobile number. He doesn't know my address either, and he has never pushed these issues. I like that.<P>I still think I have such a long way to go in my recovery, and I need to do a lot of work on me. I think I have identified my faults where my marriage was concerned, and I'm trying to change a few things about myself. These things I can only do by myself. I'm working so hard on getting my self-esteem back, I have my good days and my bad days. Don't we all???????<P>I think for you, good on you. Whatever makes you happy at the moment, go for it. As long as you go in with your eyes open, and your expectations realistic. We all deserve to be treated with love and respect, and that is what I want for you. What I would love to see for all of us here.<P>We are all going to have issues to deal with for some time yet. But at least WE are dealing with them. Unlike my ex-H, and I suspect many other WS's here who aren't.<P>I think for any new 'partner' I have, and I use that term lightly at this point in time, he will have to understand what I have been through, and that I am still on a learning curve. I guess he will have to accept that I will have my insecurities, my doubts and my phobias, but if he is willing to help me with those, and be there for me, who knows where we may end up. All I will ask for is his understanding, his love, his compassion and to give me time. Of course, all this is in the future....... it hasn't even happened yet.......<P>is that positive thinking or what!!!!!!!!!<P>I wish all of us here some peace over the Christmas holidays. I know I would pay any price for that at the moment. Also a laugh of two. That is so important to me. Someone who can make me laugh.<P>love and hugs to you and happy holidays<P>Jo