Jo,<P>One of my goals in life is to travel to Australia to see the Great Barrier Reef and spend about a month there. Not in the immediate future, but someday. I want to spend a month down under. <P>Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen, a pair of US twins that make kid movies, just made an Australian movie. I can't get over how close your teenagers are to ours in the states.<BR>It looks like just a great place to live and explore!<P>Anyway, it would be great to fly on the same plane as you are on. <wishful thinking><BR>do you work on Quantas?<P>tom<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited December 21, 2000).]

FW<P>So, although the meteor is more flashy and prettier, the glowing ember is hotter. Go for the intense heat, and take your time!<BR> <P> is that a CJ original? <BR>

gsd,<P>are you available for the nashville bash?<P>you could even drive unless you are busy at work, which would make it a late friday flight, and back home on sunday. but<BR>being so close, it shouldn't be so expensive.<P>WIFTT

Ditto, CJ!!! What you wrote is a keeper!<P>Ragamuffin

Sparklers are pretty, but they burn out in about a minute. A glowing ember takes hours and sometimes DAYS to get that hot. A glowing ember can purify gold. Go for pure gold, right folks?<P> <P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.<p>[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited December 22, 2000).]

gsd,<P>If you don’t mind me asking, where are you on the issue about having children? I ask this because you are about the same age as my ex, and since the day we met, she always told me that she wanted kids by the time she was 30. Well she is now 27 and has thrown away a relationship of 7 years. It makes me wonder how she will meet someone new, fall in love, get married and have a child in the next 3 years, and be happy this time?<P>Do you feel your ‘biological’ clock ticking and feel the need to be involved again soon so that you still have a shot of children at a young age?<P>I know everyone is different, I’m just trying to gain some perspective here.<BR>

WIFFT:<P>Did I miss something??? What is Nashville (besides a city in that rectangular state in the east)???? <P>Oh yea, I called him to wish him MC on the eve and he hasn't called back (left message). He did make a big deal about making sure I believed himn that we would still go out and he would call and stuff. He also made sure that I would still call him too. But he hasn't called in 2 weeks. Am I overreacting?<P><BR>Jayhawk:<BR>Kids? I wasn't planning on having any until I was 32-34 or so. So I guess I have time. My distorted perception has been: all the "good ones" are taken by now. Uggh. How ridiculous!<P>By the way: a friend told me that divorced people are more likely to marry again than single people. In other words, the unmarried people in the world are more typically never married ones versus divorcees. Does this make sense? I am more like to marry than my 45 year old never married friend. Wonder why.

gsd:<P>I could understand that statement about single people remaining single. Maybe it's just a guess, but I think single people become accustom to living alone and although they may feel lonely at times, may view being in a marriage as too much of a sacrifice of their lifestyle and their freedom.<P>I too called my ex to wish her a MC. She almost sounded shocked to hear my voice when she answered the phone. It’s strange with her sometimes. We agreed to remain friends and we still get along very well, but I rarely hear from her unless I initiate some type of communication. I’m not sure if she is unsure of my motives, not comfortable talking to me again or just not interested in remaining friends? I can’t figure her out anymore. But then again, if I could, my life would make a lot more sense <BR>

I wasn't able to read all the responses...but has anyone suggested "MARS and VENUS Starting Over" by John Gray? I just started it today. GREAT BOOK if you're stuck in the "process"

An end of January MB member get together<BR>starting Friday night through the weekend.<P>We have a room with a hot tub reserved, <BR>Faithful Wife is going to lead a bible study class, or someone is, i can't remember who now.<P>we are going to go out to eat in local cuisine together. We are going to trash our X's, have an ash hauling party after we burn<BR>all the BAD memories of our X's.<P>fun stuff like that, mostly all D/D people.<BR>I think you qualify. look at the posts down below titled nashville, and see for yoursefl.<P>tom<BR>

Just a thought, but why go dating again anyway ? Are you looking for someone else - do you need someone else ? In my situation, I am deciding whether to pour yet more of my soul down the drain of my marriage or whether to separate & get happy. I don't want anyone else - I want MY life. I don't want to have to negotiate for every little thing. I want my freedom -or am I being naive ?

Helena,<P>if you remember good times in a marriage, i think people tend to want to repeat them, but the ties of marriage are reassuring, as in commitment, versus just living together with the same emotions, but a much easier escape, the door, not the courts.<P>tom

WIFFT:<P>Is the bible study in the hot tub???<BR>Just kidding. <BR>

gsd,<P>Yes, the bible study is in the hot tub--however, since I am Jewish I thought we'd try a torah study at Temple Beth Jacuzzi! Does anyone have a topic they would like to discuss at the bible study? Where did Esau get his wife? What is the recipe for Jacob's goat stew? Did Moses have a stutter? The left-handed judge? David's affair? Divorce in Judaism? OR just a general question and answer session about being Jewish? <P>You ARE all bringing your bibles, aren't you? <P>CJ <P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

I'm sorry. I can't recommend Mars & Venus Starting Over. I can't recommend any of John Gray's books. First, because John Gray beleives in soul mate crap, which is what got alot of the betrayers in their messed up situation to begin with.<P>Second, he seems to be a little out of touch with the reality of sex in the 00's. He recommends that men have sex with as many women as possible (while making sure they don't recommit too soon). He then recommends that women date alot, but don't have sex. I'd like to know who all these women are that will knowingly agree (1) to having casual sex with a man who is having sex with lots of other women (2) who has any self-respect if she opens her legs for a guy who admittedly just wants sex and doesn't want a commitment. Furthermore, if all these men go along with what JG beleives, the women who ARE dating and trying to be responsible about sex have to face a bunch of sexual predators trying to get in her pants instead of being able to relax and just get to know someone. <P>So, my review is a definate THUMBS DOWN.<P>In fact, one of the very things that may have lead to the failure of the man's relationship is his inability to express his emotions and tenderness outside of the bedroom. JG's advice only furthers the notion that men cannot express themselves in any other way but through their penis, and that the path to self-esteem (for men) is found in a woman's vagina, not in her head.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited January 05, 2001).]

I just felt compelled to refresh this thread and add a little to it. After D dating experiences can be awkward at first, especially if you are not ready for them. From experience I can honestly say that they will mess with your head if you're not sure what you are looking for before you start out. Feelings develop and expectations arise whether you intend for them to or not. And you have to think about the other person's feelings as well.<P>I don't regret the experience of the past few weeks in the least, but I know it's something that I am not ready for at this point. There are still too many unresolved feelings and emotions within myself to be fair in a new relationship.<P>I guess no matter how many times you hear it, you have to figure these things out for yourself. I know I did <BR>

As I have mentioned before in other threads I do counseling for divorced and separated individuals; even knowing what I know, I still have made some pretty silly decisions in terms of dating, getting involved, etc. My point is that most people, me included, loose their objectivity when it comes to yourself.<P>The man I was involved with started out as being a friend. We were just offering each other moral support while we were going through our individual crises. Before I knew it we were involved. I don't like to think of it as a rebound relationship, but it was. Rationalization is a wonderful thing for making you feel better.<P>I know with people I have talked to they are either completely repelled against a relationship with the opposite sex or they are determined to get back on the horse again and date. I believe people going through divorce worry that they will be alone forever, that men/women won't find them attractive anymore, they are insecure...that rebound relationship gives the person a boost...unfortunatly, sometimes when the confidence is restored, the relationship is over. Someone usually gets hurt.<P>I do know that every person is different. Statistically, more men remarry than women...especially older women with kids. I forget the exact number, but in our society, it is much easier for men to start over. It is not unusual for a man in his 40's to remarry a woman in her 20's or 30's and start a new family. Not too women in their 40's, who have children, have men in their 20's or 30's dating them with marriage on the mind. Of course if you are Madonna or the like, an exception is made. My point is in our society, older women have a much more difficult time than men do.<P>I think the best way to go is not force yourself to date if you aren't ready, and try not to get in over your head if you are...especially if it seems too wonderful...proceed with caution...to protect your own bruised heart and to not unknowingly, bruise someone elses.<P>

"It is not unusual for a man in his 40's to remarry a woman in her 20's or 30's and start a new family. Not too women in their 40's, who have children, have men in their 20's or 30's dating them with marriage on the mind."<P>Yea. Take a look at Warren Beatty and Michael Douglas. WB was 55 and married 30 something Annette Benning. At least WB didn't dump his wife of 20 something years to marry someone young enough to be his daughter (Catherine Zeta-Jones). In their pre-nup, she gets more money the longer she stays married to him. Where I come from, they call that prostitution...<P>Anyway, I think alot of those 40 something women have choices too. Alot of them can't picture themselves with men who are younger or are financially less well-off than they are. Both men and women are raised to expect the man to be older and have more money. <P>Times are changin' though. One of my best friends is seriously involved with a man who is 9 years younger than her. A neighbor of mine is involved with a man 15 yrs younger.

Just for point of reference sake, the woman I was getting involved with is 15 years older than me. I figured it was a safe relationship knowing that we were at such different places in our lives and I figured that we could just spend time together knowing that it wasn't going to be anything serious. I learned that age is irrelevant once you spend time with another person and you get to know one another. No matter what your intentions are in the beginning, emotions do come into play.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jayhawk 93:<BR><B> No matter what your intentions are in the beginning, emotions do come into play.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Here here!<P>