Kevan-<P>Your story sounds exactly the same as mine only you and I are in a different role. I was the wayward spouse. I can totally related your story...It all happened on my B-Day as well of early last year. I can assured you that your wife affair has noting to do with sex or lack of or size (just like RWD suggested). <P>RWD wrote: For women, it is usually because the other man (om) is meeting some other needs that make her feel romantic and then the romantic feeling turn to sex. <P>I believe in exactly this phrase...I was there and I know it. Let me tell you a little bit about my story. I was married for 5 years. My affair only lasted for a month and after D-Day I quit and have no contact with the OM anymore. However, H stills think I see the OM. I just don't know how to explain to him and have him listen to me. He doesn't believe a word I said. After D-Day, I knew myself that I made a mistake and asked H for forgiveness...I was pregnant and on my knees begging him to forgive me but instead he pushes me away. He said the baby wasn't his. He yelled, screamed and verbally abuses me. I was so stressed that I had to go to surgery for labor. After labor, I asked him to come to hospital but he refused and still denys that it wasn't his baby. A few mos later, I had a DNA test done, low and behold... he was the biological father of my daughter. She is now almost 4 mos but he hasn't seen her at all and probably never will.<P>I learnt my listen and know my mistake very well. I'm willing to do anything I mean anything for him to forgive me and have the family back. Unfortunately, he thinks I used the baby to want him back and that I don't love him. This is not true. I love him very much and I was happy to carry his baby eventhough he was never there with me througout my pregnancy. All he wanted now is divorce. His attorney called me last week to confirm my address. I was in tear and couldn't concentrate on my work. I just wished we can talk it out and start it slowly and see why, how, we can improve the marriage. None the less, he never wanted to rebuild the marriage. He said it was over since D-Day!. :-(<P>The best thing to do is let her be her own self for awhile. Don't stay in her way and let her do whatever she wants right now. Sooner or later, she will wake up and realizes that she is throwing away her family. Meanwhile, just like other suggested...check out on Plan A and Plan B and how can you improve your communication with her. Good luck and keep us updated.<P>kko

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kkeo:<BR><B>Kevan-<P> Good luck and keep us updated.<P>kko</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi Kkeo,<P>I am really sorry to hear the outcome of yours, this is really sad and I do feel for you, and believe it or not I do feel for my wife and her feelings too, but the want for restoration must come from both sides...<P>I asked her last night why she did not tell me that she had returned the stupid bracelet that the pig gave her for Christmas, she could not answer me. I wonder if she actually has returned it or given it to this divorcee buddy of hers for safekeeping. Maybe I should show some trust. <BR>I want to write a letter to this pigs wife and tell her that my wife has promised to break all contact with the grubby-pawed bum and if she knows anything to the contrary she is free to let me know. <BR>If she betrays my trust and the trust of our children again, she will be out of our home so fast she wont know what has happened. <BR>Hey, man, I wish I had the available money to buy her a plane ticket and get her out of here as soon as possible. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B><P>Then see if you can take some of the pressure off your wife. She needs to, of course, get away from OM. <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for the support, it really is appreciated, every little bit helps.<P>Well, last night, two nights after our family argument, we both came home, both were happy and cheerful, kids were happy and smiling. Later in the evening I asked her if she had spoken to OM yet and got the reply "No, of course not, did you expect me to just phone him up and say its all over?............" Yes she did get a bit upset, but I just ignored her. <BR>At bedtime I went and kissed her goodnight, gave her a nice hug, told her I love her and understand that it must be very difficult to give up a friendship like this, but that there is no other way. Then I went and slept downstairs.<P>Yes, I bought her flowers tonight, but got the remark "You've got to stop doing this all the time, thank you, they are lovely, but you must stop this now".<P>Well, counselling is off because of the cost involved, $70 a time, so will just have to work on the notes I have been given. I am making a point of leaving some of them lying around every night.<P>She is very sore tonight, the whole top of her back has gone into a muscle spasm and I am absolutely sure it is all tension, stress and anger that is doing it, nothing else. Most probably so wound up and scared to say goodbye to the OM.<P>SO THE BIG QUESTION, how long do I wait for her now to make up her mind before she decides to tell OM it's over? Anyone got any suggestions?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kevan:<BR><B> SO THE BIG QUESTION, how long do I wait for her now to make up her mind before she decides to tell OM it's over? Anyone got any suggestions?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Even Plan A has its limits. Dr. Harley recommends a time frame of about six months for plan A. By then, if you haven't seen significant progress, you might want to start thinking about plan B. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumperii:<BR><B> Even Plan A has its limits. Dr. Harley recommends a time frame of about six months for plan A. By then, if you haven't seen significant progress, you might want to start thinking about plan B. <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Another six months, after she has told my son, myself, my daughter that she will break it off, AND the affair was revealed SIX MONTHS AGO when my son caught them in the park. Somehow I dont think any three of us have the energy to know for another SIX MONTHS that he is still hanging around?<P>I have put a lot of effort into this. I was the one willing to go for counselling, she wasnt, I was the one that voluntarily went to the doctor and asked to be put back onto anti-deps, I am the one that is praying daily for our marriage to work out, I am the one who has being giving her floe\wers every week, taking her out to dinner, telling her how much I love her, helping with the washing and ironing while she has been out with her girlfriends, helping the kids clean up their rooms, helping the kids with their homework, carting and carrying the kids.<BR>I am th eone that has been doing his utmost to change and improve the things that I "think" went wrong, because she still hasnt told me. I am the one that has been doing all the research on how to mend our marriage. All I have had from her is bad-manners, irritability, shouting at the kids, slapping my son up when he confronted her on Sunday night. I am the one that has been staying home over the weekends wondering what she is actually doing while she has been out shopping, dining, visiting with her friends "because she needs space".<P>I have always done my best to accommodate her in everything we have done and have always asked her opinion about any decision and very often let her have her way and choice in the things we have done and bought.<P>Yes, I know I have lost it a few times, but this has usually been when I have tried to start discussing things and wanting to work things out that she starts getting upset, short-tempered with me and walks away from me.<P>Hey, I know I have many shortcomings too, I know I am not the perfect person, and that she works very hard at home and at work. She has ben the light of my life. She is a lovely person to everyone that meets her.<P>There is a saying that is bandied around very much these days too "ONCE A CHEATER, ALWAYS A CHEATER" any comments on that one?????????????<P>BUT, STILL, am I still now expected to just ignore this, make as if everything is just hunky-dorey and make-believe like he doesnt exist for another six months of my life, tell my kids dont worry everything is ok?<P><BR>

Does she have a history of having been abused in <I>any</I> way? Because if she can't hang in with a difficult discussion and comes back hard with anger, she may be "flooding" much more easily than a woman who hasn't been abused. And <I>you</I> are losing a lot of love bank balance whenever you have an angry outburst.

Hi Kevan I'm on my way out the door but just wanted to toss this out:<P>You and wife should BOTH be putting the kids' needs first. If she wants to go back to SA and leave Canada, that's her decision. I know you still love her, but the marriage isn't a marriage, and had it not been so damaged by the affair and the years before where there wasn't enough emotional connection between the two of you, that would have made the difference.<P>The kids aren't tiny. they have lives, friends, school, a home. They have already suffered enough. Your W has hurt your son irreparably and just wants him to "get overit". He's a teenager and he caught his mother behaving like a slut in a public place with her affair partner. The shame and humilitation of that! Ugh.<P> She's selfish. They have a right to stability, to a peaceful home life. I feel for your son, he just wants to be able to study. I would want to leave home too in his place.<P>Sorry. Sorry for your pain and for your kids' pain.<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>Does she have a history of having been abused in any way? Because if she can't hang in with a difficult discussion and comes back hard with anger, she may be "flooding" much more easily than a woman who hasn't been abused. And you are losing a lot of love bank balance whenever you have an angry outburst.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Her parenst got divorced when she was in her early teens, her mother walked out on him becasue he was having an affair. Her mother re-married a few years later to a real useless pig who treated her and her brother like dirt and didnt really want them around. her mother and step-father have never stopped fighting and arguing for as long as I can remember. She ran away from home once (for one night) when she was young because she could not stand this stepfather any more. When she got home her mother hit her so hard she gave her a black eye. Her and her brother were always made to feel like they were in the way. She was not allowed to have friends in their home after school. They had a swimming pool which they were not allowed to use without his permission.<BR>Her stepfather today still treats her mother like dirt.<BR>All he has wanted to do for years is give up working and expects us to support them. between the two of them they have wasted and squandered all the capital they have and are now living from month to month.<BR>When I met her she had a very strong inferiority complex which took me many years to prove to her was not the case. Her parents were so happy when she got married and all of a sudden were then her biggest friends.<BR>Her brother eventually got kicked out of the house when he was twenty because he tried to stand up for his rights. He has become a very outgoing hard-headed insensitive type of person and does not care whose feelings he hurts.<BR>Whenever we have had a confrontation of any sort, she has always been very defensive and tried to justify her faults by putting the blame on someone else.<BR>I have always done my best to boost her self-esteem.<BR>

Kevan,<BR>The "once a cheater, always a cheater" statement is usually a self fulfilling prophecy. <P>If both parties don't work on what caused the problems in the first place, the problems way before the affair, then that can lead the WS spouse to again look to an affair to solve their problems. Also if the BS refuses to forgive, and puts pressure on the WS they may actually drive the WS away.<P>And then there are those cases where the WS has a mental disorder (midlife crisis, depression, etc.) or character flaw.<P>Bob<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RWD:<BR><B>Kevan,<BR>If both parties don't work on what caused the problems in the first place, the problems way before the affair, <P>Bob</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>i have always done my best to boost her morale and have many times ignored things which I felt were wrong because she always had this evry defensive attitude.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bellevue:<BR><B>She's selfish. They have a right to stability, to a peaceful home life. I feel for your son, he just wants to be able to study. I would want to leave home too in his place.<P>Sorry. Sorry for your pain and for your kids' pain.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Another day gone by and not a word about speaking to the OM. could see both my son and myself were not in a good mood tonight. <BR>Whenever someone is in a bad mood she has always assumed they are upset with her and immediately gets upset and mad, this must be her self-defense mechanism kicking in from when she was young and always treated badly by her stepfather.<BR>She went to the chiropractor for her back tonight, went shopping then picked me up from the bus stop at 7pm. Later she asked if I was upset because She had not cooked dinner and we had frozen TV dinners. I have NEVER been upset when she hasnt cooked dinner, I am a useless cook myself but am very easy when it comes to meals and have never demanded any meals from her.<BR>Seems like she has not only lost respect for me but also our children, after promising my son she would end it all with the OM. The children have been pretty happy this week, but I can see they are starting to realise its not cut and dry and all over. When I mentioned it to our 20-year-old daughter tonight she seemed quite shocked.<BR>I am seriously thinking of making THE decision this weekend, either she must leave or I will leave until she can make up her mind.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bellevue:<BR><B><BR>You and wife should BOTH be putting the kids' needs first. If she wants to go back to SA and leave Canada, that's her decision.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Looks like everyone on this forum has had enough of me and my nonsense, but as my wife will not let me spend the money on counselling I will just have to keep typing until somebody answers:<P><BR>Three bank accounts: <BR>Trust <BR>Love <BR>Respect <P>Trust badly depleted, 22 years worth gone, how do I just trust completely without being suspicious and wondering when it isnt final?<P>Love - I feel its still quite full, (feel more disappointed than anything of the attitude towards counselling and healing) but know hers has depleted tremendously from the things I have done, anger, arguing, mistrust (here we go again).<P>Respect - I do still respect her even though I have gone and told everyone - like you say was a call for help, but she does not see it that way, rather I have dishonoured her. As for her account - I can see she has very very little respect left for me, also obvious by her not wanting to give it up with him - lot of earning to do here for me.<P>This is the most difficult thing I am dealing with, is trust, how do I restore trust again when things are still left unsaid and many questions unanswered which I want to ask but cant as she will go off the deep end and take it that I am loading guilt on her again? <P>Things like when did it actually start, <BR>where did it happen how many times did IT truly happen, <BR>how many times in the park, <BR>where else, <BR>how many lunchtimes, <BR>how many times when she said she was at her divorcee friend, <BR>who else knows at the company she used to work for, <BR>what has she told him about me, <BR>why will she not let me see her cellphone account (says its her personal business), <BR>has she truly given back the bracelet or does her divorcee friend have it, <BR>why does she feel it was unimportant NOT to tell me that she doesnt have it anymore - it only came out when our son challenged her about it,<P>why does she feel it is unimportant to tell us and the kids where she is after work or what time she will be home, <BR>is he still phoning her, <BR>will we be lovers again, <BR>will she truly go back to SA for good - influence from her mother when she gets there, <BR>a good chance if she stays there long enough she will find someone else there, <BR>why wont she come out with it and tell the kids, I am sure they are waiting for an answer after our son challenging her to give it up, he believed up until last weekend she has told him goodbye? <P>Must I stop discussing it with the kids like she expects me to? <P>Has something happened before that I am not aware of, what about that anonymous phone call I had from some woman in SA six months after we got here claiming my wife had had an affair with her husband before we left SA, although she denies this completely it is still in the back of my mind. This woman did say that they used to spend Sunday mornings together, which was a bit strange as we were at church most of the time except for the last month or so, but then she was only working half-day, but did fetch and carry the kids a lot, this does seem to discount a lot of it now that I write it all down but it does make you wonder, where there is smoke there is fire.<P>Oh what a mess, this is going t take a long time to sort out. <P>What do you do when you suggest in all honesty that she takes the day off from work and recuperate from her back problems because it really needs some rest and you get told "Dont tell me what to do, you not my boss"<P>How much longer do I have to stand being ignored but when the kids walk by they get a hug?<P><BR>Three bank accounts: <BR>Trust <BR>Love <BR>Respect <P>Trust badly depleted, 22 years worth gone, how do I just trust completely without being suspicious and wondering when it isnt final?<P>Love - I feel its still quite full, (feel more disappointed than anything of the attitude towards counselling and healing) but know hers has depleted tremendously from the things I have done, anger, arguing, mistrust (here we go again).<P>Respect - I do still respect her even though I have gone and told everyone - like you say was a call for help, but she does not see it that way, rather I have dishonoured her. As for her account - I can see she has very very little respect left for me, also obvious by her not wanting to give it up with him - lot of earning to do here for me.<P>This is the most difficult thing I am dealing with, is trust, how do I restore trust again when things are still left unsaid and many questions unanswered which I want to ask but cant as she will go off the deep end and take it that I am loading guilt on her again? <P>Things like when did it actually start, <BR>where did it happen how many times did IT truly happen, <BR>how many times in the park, <BR>where else, <BR>how many lunchtimes, <BR>how many times when she said she was at her divorcee friend, <BR>who else knows at the company she used to work for, <BR>what has she told him about me, <BR>why will she not let me see her cellphone account (says its her personal business), <BR>has she truly given back the bracelet or does her divorcee friend have it, <BR>why does she feel it was unimportant NOT to tell me that she doesnt have it anymore - it only came out when our son challenged her about it,<P>why does she feel it is unimportant to tell us and the kids where she is after work or what time she will be home, <BR>is he still phoning her, <BR>will we be lovers again, <BR>will she truly go back to SA for good - influence from her mother when she gets there, <BR>a good chance if she stays there long enough she will find someone else there, <BR>why wont she come out with it and tell the kids, I am sure they are waiting for an answer after our son challenging her to give it up, he believed up until last weekend she has told him goodbye? <P>Must I stop discussing it with the kids like she expects me to? <P>Has something happened before that I am not aware of, what about that anonymous phone call I had from some woman in SA six months after we got here claiming my wife had had an affair with her husband before we left SA, although she denies this completely it is still in the back of my mind. This woman did say that they used to spend Sunday mornings together, which was a bit strange as we were at church most of the time except for the last month or so, but then she was only working half-day, but did fetch and carry the kids a lot, this does seem to discount a lot of it now that I write it all down but it does make you wonder, where there is smoke there is fire.<P>Oh what a mess, this is going t take a long time to sort out. <P>What do you do when you suggest in all honesty that she takes the day off from work and recuperate from her back problems because it really needs some rest and you get told "Dont tell me what to do, you not my boss"<P>How much longer do I have to stand being ignored but when the kids walk by they get a hug?<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kevan:<BR><B>Trust badly depleted, 22 years worth gone, how do I just trust completely without being suspicious and wondering when it isnt final?<P>This is the most difficult thing I am dealing with, is trust, how do I restore trust again when things are still left unsaid and many questions unanswered which I want to ask but cant as she will go off the deep end and take it that I am loading guilt on her again?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><I>You</I> can't restore your trust in your wife. Only <I>she</I> can do that. Once trust has been broken, it must be earned back, and that will take time. If your wife refuses to do anything to earn your trust, then, quite simply, you shouldn't trust her. Not even if she asks you to.<P>You have an awful lot of questions, kevan, and I'm afraid I don't understand why you need them answered. It's no wonder that your wife feels that you are loading guilt on her. I don't think this is a productive approach.<P>You want to leave the past behind and make a better future. So don't dwell on the past. Your wife is going to have a hard time letting go of it if you keep dredging it up yourself. Maybe some day the time will come when you can get those questions answered (if you still care when that day comes). But now is not the time.<P>For now, you should focus on positive steps toward rebuilding your relationship. If you can get your wife to make suggestions, so much the better.<P>But if your wife simply demands trust without earning it, and if she continues to be secretive, then you are not yet in a position to start rebuilding.<P>At least, that's how I see it.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> <I>You</I> can't restore your trust in your wife. Only <I>she</I> can do that. Once trust has been broken, it must be earned back, and that will take time. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for the encouragement, it is appreciated. Of course I do realise that I cannot ask a lot of these questions, but one thing I really would like to know is it really off between themand she just wont even talk about it at all, this is what hurts the most right now, its as if she either just wants to keep me in suspense or doesnt really want to do it.<P>AM I wrong in expecting her to tell me if he has been phoning her still seen that she has not told him directly it is over, instead just avoding his calls like she says she is? <BR>This does not give me a good feeling at all, am I wrong in feeling this way?<BR>i am prepared to help ans support her if he is worrying her and she doesnt want him to call anymore, but that is not the feeling I get. I get the feeling that she either doesnt really want to end it, or she is too scared to approach him outright and tell him.<BR>I did suggest she write a letter to him, but she told me I must not tell her what to do.<BR>She will not even discuss it at all.<BR>She is of course very very mad with me that I have told her father and my sister about the affair, like I have cheated and betrayed her.<BR>She is of course in terrible pain at the moment with the pinched nerve in her neck, but is so stubborn she will not take a day off work to rest and recuperate and it is not getting better. This is also frustrating me incredibly, but she wil not listen to any advice at all from me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kevan:<BR><B>AM I wrong in expecting her to tell me if he has been phoning her still seen that she has not told him directly it is over, instead just avoding his calls like she says she is? <BR>This does not give me a good feeling at all, am I wrong in feeling this way?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think you have every right to expect this, and that there would be something wrong with you if you didn't feel bad about this.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>i am prepared to help ans support her if he is worrying her and she doesnt want him to call anymore, but that is not the feeling I get. I get the feeling that she either doesnt really want to end it, or she is too scared to approach him outright and tell him.<BR>I did suggest she write a letter to him, but she told me I must not tell her what to do.<BR>She will not even discuss it at all.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your wife may not even understand her feelings herself.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>She is of course very very mad with me that I have told her father and my sister about the affair, like I have cheated and betrayed her.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In other words, she knows she's guilty, and she doesn't want to take the rap. You're the most convenient scapegoat.<P>While telling everybody about your wife's sins is <I>not</I> a move calculated to make her feel good about you, some hurts are simply too great to be borne alone.<P>Tradeoffs. I don't know whether it was wise to have said anything to these family members or not, but it's too late to do anything about it now, and I don't think I would feel too guilty about it if I were you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>She is of course in terrible pain at the moment with the pinched nerve in her neck, but is so stubborn she will not take a day off work to rest and recuperate and it is not getting better. This is also frustrating me incredibly, but she wil not listen to any advice at all from me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I wish I had something encouraging to say about this, but I don't. If you can't get your wife into counseling with you (be it with a therapist, a minister, or even a mentor), I don't know what you can do other than pray, hope, and wait.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> I wish I had something encouraging to say about this, but I don't. If you can't get your wife into counseling with you (be it with a therapist, a minister, or even a mentor), I don't know what you can do other than pray, hope, and wait.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, pray, hope and wait - but for how long?<P>Can I ask her about him? Am I at least allowed to do that?<P>What about my kids, are they not also allowed to have an answer from her?<P>I was reading a section out of a book by Dr. Dobson today, called "Marriage under fire" - a few photocopied pages which, believe it or not the divorcee girlfriend gave my wife months ago, before I discovered the affair (now, you tell me she doesnt know what has been going on too?), anyhow, all on "Tough Love" and even though you still love someone like this you should still keep your respect and dignity and let them go, and show them that you are not dependent on them, also on denial, putting blame on the injured party, suffocating someone, the injured party feeling unnecessary guilt, etc. (a bit strange why they were discussing it together? it should have been me that had that in the first place, I was the injured party, not her). When I approached her about it months ago, she said I must stop being stupid, her friend was just trying to help us ????? Now I wonder why, when I had not even by that time discovered the affair????<BR>It has given me some hope and strength that I am not and will not be the loser through this all.<BR>The tough love principle just may be put in place if I do not get a clear answer quite soon.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kevan:<BR><B>Yes, pray, hope and wait - but for how long?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is entirely up to you. There's a lot you have no control over, but you <I>do</I> have control over that.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Can I ask her about him? Am I at least allowed to do that?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course you're <I>allowed</I> to ask. Personally, I think it would be entirely reasonable to demand an answer and deliver an ultimatum. Then again, perhaps you would get better results by telling her how terribly hurt you are that she won't talk to you about this, and then leaving her conscience to work. Or perhaps...I don't know. Without the benefit of hindsight, it's anybody's guess.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>What about my kids, are they not also allowed to have an answer from her?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>They are <I>owed</I> an answer, I think. But you don't have the power to collect the debt.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> They are <I>owed</I> an answer, I think. But you don't have the power to collect the debt.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I know that, but would there be any harm in prompting them or prompting her to come out with it instead of they are just left hanging in suspense? I think my son is actually also apprehensive of approaching the subject with her again in fear that she will lose it again and scream and shout and slap him up again, so thus as long as my wife and I are not fighting in front of them my son and daughter are quite happy to leave things as they are.<P>I would really like to braoch the subject one night when we are all sitting down together for dinner, but that again will also make her mad as she has told me that in no ways must I involve the kids any more in this business. That my son has been damaged enough from what has happened. How can I do that when they have both been involved from the start?<P>I know if I approach it again this weekend I will get it thrown in my face that: <BR>"Here we go, another weekend and the same nonsense starts all over again just like every weekend, you just want to make my weekends hell. Next weekend I am just going to make sure that I am not here at all, because I am getting tired of this"<P>Of course everytime I get close to the subject, she gets upset and says I am just loading guilt onto her and I dont want to let it go, that I will never let her forget it for the rest of her life etc. etc.<P>But she just doesnt want to come out herself and talk about it, tell me her feelings, so I thus gather that she either cannot say goodbye to him, doesnt want to, is just doing it to spite me and thus has lost all respect for me and feels she can do as she pleases and I must accept it at that!!!!!<P>Communication is a two-way street, I have been doing my best all the time to try and tell her how much I love her, that I know it has been difficult, that I know I have made many mistakes and been angry, but I do love her very much despite my actions and I do want to resolve this all, but unless I approach it she never ever voluntarily talks about it to me and is not prepared to approach the subject at all.

Kevin.<P>I mean this with all good intentions. <P>It seems to me you need to relax. <P>Stop trying to think so much.<P>You are hurt/wounded. I understand with out a shadow of a doubt, and you want instant answers. This won't happen. Let it roll off you, like water off a ducks back. <P>I was in the same boat. When I let go of the very same issue my life became so much clearer. You may know what the answers are already and you are to pent up on forcing the issue that the issue won't come to the sutface.<P>Don't drive yourself crazy. Relax. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AgoodManInTexas:<BR><B>Kevin.<P>Don't drive yourself crazy. Relax. <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So what you are saying is that you just went on with life, ignored what was going on? <BR>You just let her go ahead and do what she wanted to do?<BR>Do I just ignore what is going on, the ill-temperedness, the bad moods, the secretiveness?<BR>