You can't <I>ignore</I> what is going on, but recognize that the ill-temperedness probably derives from guilt. Your wife is not happy with <I>herself</I> and she's taking it out on you and your children. Your attempts to force the issue are just giving her more of an opportunity to blame <I>you</I> for her self-induced distress.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B>You can't <I>ignore</I> what is going on, but recognize that the ill-temperedness probably derives from guilt. Your wife is not happy with <I>herself</I> and she's taking it out on you and your children. Your attempts to force the issue are just giving her more of an opportunity to blame <I>you</I> for her self-induced distress.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, thus I must just go on with blinkers on, ignore it all and humour her as best I can and vent my frustrations with my support group of friends and family. (I have been trying this for quite a while you know but do find it very difficult when I feel I am just being walked over and taken advantage of !!! - ever get that feeling?)<P>So, we will give it a go again (please I am not being sarcastis about this with you guys at all), but am just getting tired of having to rely on sleeping pills and a drink every night so that I can have a decent nights sleep without any recurring dreams of what has happened.

No. I'm not saying IGNORE it. Just like what GDP said. <P>YOU are giving her the oppertunities.<BR>YOU are worked up about something she is/was/or could be doing.<BR>YOU are not getting sleep.<BR>YOU will make yourself sick.<BR>YOU won't let go of YOUR frustrations.<BR>YOU can't fix it, so YOU are expressing YOUR anger.<P>I did all of this toooo. I felt so much better and was/am able to deal with everything much better now that I relaxed and let go of it. It put me back in control. I my case I set this item on the lords alter. Yes, even last night I woke up early from a bad dream about the affair my STBXW had, I got up, walked around the empty house, smoked a cigerette, and went back to bed. I slepted like a baby till the alarm went off, and haven't thought about it since. <P>Yes it hurt, Yes she doesn't want to deal talk about it. everything you've said. But now I'm a much better person from the problem because I CHOOSE to let go. I CAN'T FIX THIS, so I stopped trying. <P>Things I noticed when I did let go:<P>My daughter is doing much, much better in school.<P>I sleep much, much better. most of the time though the nite.<P>I'm in much, much better physical shape.<P>People are now calling me to go out and have fun.<P>I've stopped talking so much about my problems and have started to talk about the events in my day.<P>My daughter and I really talk about things now. and she no longer holds things in because she trusts me not to go off on her.<P>All of my friends are still my friends.<P>Good Woman are everywhere. (I noticed this one after I filed for D) ;-).<P>I love my STBXW. That won't change. But I have to move on with what I know is the right thing to do. (In my inparticular case. It may not be required in your case. I don't know)<P>I noticed that it always seems as if every action had an equal and opposite reaction. (Here again in MY case.) So I stopped. This is hers to figure out not mine. <P>Something I figured out that has helped me at work and with my stress level is that " You can't fix it, if it doesn't want to be fixed." <P>Here again my advise:<BR>1.) Relax.<BR>2.) Plan A, or B<BR>3.) Absolutely no LB's. Period.<P><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AgoodManInTexas:<BR><B>No. I'm not saying IGNORE it. Just like what GDP said. <P>YOU are giving her the oppertunities.<BR>YOU are worked up about something she is/was/or could be doing.<BR>YOU are not getting sleep.<BR>YOU will make yourself sick.<BR>YOU won't let go of YOUR frustrations.<BR>YOU can't fix it, so YOU are expressing YOUR anger.<P>Here again my advise:<BR>1.) Relax.<BR>2.) Plan A, or B<BR>3.) Absolutely no LB's. Period.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Hi guys,<P>Here is a short extract from a posting I put on another discussion board:<P>From me:<P>If you think I am prepared to give up 22 years without a fight you must be crazy. If you think I am going to further damage my kids future, I am not prepared to.<P>Yes, I did have a "discussion" with her on Saturday night and did point out to her that I am in the position to ask her to leave and go and do her own thing if she does not now adhere to what she has told me - that she has broken contact with him. Also that she is free to go if and when she wants to, but this will not stop me loving her and wanting her to be my partner, lover and wife, and that she is welcome back at any time, but with certain conditions attached. I also did tell her that I am fully prepared to go forward now that she has told mme that she has told him it is all over (even though I had to ASK her if she had done it, she didnt volunteer it freely)<P><BR>Response from:<BR> <BR>vanillabean1086<P>I have been reading all your posts here and I feel I must give you my honest opinion...<P>You seem to be putting ALL the blame on yourself....you get upset if she gets upset..YOU are not the blame for her affair...she CHOSE to have the affair...<P>I am sorry to say that I feel that your wife is not truly trying to rebuild your marriage...I know how you feel about your 22 yrs...I have been married for over 23 yrs and the history we have built together over that time was worth trying to save BUT my H was very remorseful and has tried extremely hard to help me through the pain, anger, humilition and the pounding that my self esteem took. He has been trying to rebuild my trust in him...<P>Your W MUST do anything and everything to help salvage what SHE destroyed. She is unwilling to cut off all times with OM (if you had to force this info out of her, she only told you what you wanted to hear so you would "get off her back"), she refuses to go to couseling and she doesn't even want to discuss it with you. She is upset that other people have found out (they would have sooner or later...that is a chance that she took). <P>Your children will be ok if the marriage doesn't work out...you made mention that the children are already being affected by the fighting...the fighting caused by your W's affair and her unwillingness to help you through your pain. Take a stand with your W...she may be attracted to the "new" you. She will take advantage of the wishy washy you as long as you let her...she is hurting her children by her actions also...she seems to be in a "me, me, me" mode.<P>I am sorry to be so harsh...I know you are in alot of pain and the last thing you need is someone telling you something that will cause you more pain....but I am trying to be honest with you...I know in my heart that I would never have stayed with my H even with a history of over 23 yrs if he didn't show me that he was sorry and tried everything in his power to make things "right". I think he respected me for my "stand up for myself" attitude....<P>All my best,<BR>VB <BR> <BR>Me again:<P>Am I being too soft on my wife, am I being too suspicious?<P>Am I not now giving her a chance to see if we can put things together again?<P>Yes, I know it has taken a long time to get to the point where there is a good chance of a complete breakoff from the OM.<P>A response from some of you guys would really be appreciated.<BR><P>------------------<BR>

Kevan,<P>Welcome to MB, sorry I am late on a reply to you. I have just read your long thread and I'm going to try and comment on some of it.<P>Here's a brief story of mine, I came here in Dec of 99. My husband left me on xmas day after 11 years together. I was devestated. I didn't think it was an affair. I put all the blame on myself at first. Then while I was here, over a few weeks, I learned some red flags and confronted him. On Jan 7, 00, I learned there was in fact an affair , as far as he admitted, an EA but later believed it to be a PA.<P>I started in Plan A. I tried very hard. I got D papers on Valentine's day and shortly after that I snapped. I couldn't take the pressures of Plan A. Mainly because I didn't have anti depressants. Looking back, I think that would have helped me hold on longer.<P>The next 6 months consisted of my ex being horrible to me and us fighting it out in court. We were divorced this past October right before our wedding anniversary. <P>I am in a new relationship, which so far I have had no fights and I feel I am in love. I am scared to death right now.<P>Well today, I had been feeling odd about my ex getting engaged. I've been feeling odd for 2 weeks now. I feel this is a terrible thing , I feel a lot of guilt towards my boyfriend for feeling bad that ex is remarrying. Its not that I want my exH back, I want to know why I failed so I don't do it again particularly now that I'm in love. I felt I needed some answers.<P>So I called him. Remember that once a cheater always a cheater question? Well I talked to ex about a lot. What it felt like to be in his shoes for once. He told me that he felt terrible, but at the same time, he felt unhappy and had to follow the happiness he was feeling. He said that when I was on Plan A, Although I didnt' tell him it was literally called then, he refers to it as the time I was kissing his butt, that I made it so easy for him to walk all over me and that I kept allowing it. To where it became a habit almost because he thought I wanted him so bad he could do anything to me and I'd take it. He also said I seemed desperate. That turned him off to me, and towards the confident cool, OW. She appeared all the more better than his weak wife at the time.<P>My point is this. Plan A is exhausting. I would recommend some anti depressants and counseling, no matter how you need to get them. <P>It was also very easy to blame my now exH back then, but after today I found out that he did regret it as it was happening, and he appologized. I found that I was pushing him so hard that I pushed him away.<P>THis may not be the case in all WS, but maybe you can find a medium in plan A where you are just being nice, but not so "weak", since she seems to be bothered by this. Looking back I kind of understand what my ex meant. I allowed him to treat me that way. <P>Now onto a different topic, you did get some great advice from a lot of great people here. From a female's point of view, its not the size its how you use it, and also your other assets , dare I say hands, tongue etc. If you feel inadequate, I certainly don't think its good to tell your wife this is your fear. What good will it do? Be confident and try to be positive and strong when your around wife.<P>Most importantly, over all of this, is the kids. I know how hard it is, but really they do need to come first. A call to the school would be a place to start. Let the kids talk to a school counselor, even the school can refer you out to someone good. The kids should begin this immediately. My kids have had and continue straight A'since their daddy left on xmas day. I credit that to counseling, and me not bad mouthing daddy to them. <P>No matter what, those kids deserve to feel safe and that everything will be ok.<P>Lastly, I admire your will to save the marriage. It takes a lot to hang on and there are a few great guys who have gone before you that have been in Plan A for a few years, or close to it. If you read some of their posts, you will see that they grew and changed thru this, and that there is hope to be "ok" with all this, even if it results in divorce.<P>Good luck, Dana<BR>PS I got off subject on the once a cheater always a cheater. My ex used to try to cheat on OW with me after we seperated. (ick), but now he has vowed to do better with her. He is in fact doing for her everything he never did for me. He realizes now that he caused a big demise in the marriage, and sees how little something like doing dishes, can make a woman happy! If he had shown respect and we communicated, he has finally started to grow up. ALthough its too late for us, maybe he can become a better person and his goal is to not cheat again.

Kevan, I've been wondering how you were doing (I posted to you a week or so ago in General Questions). I'm sorry you're still in so much pain, but I have some advice for you - take it easy on yourself and try to calm down. I notice you keep beating yourself up over things you've asked of your wife . . . things that you're right to expect from her.<P>It is NOT unreasonable to expect her to end all contact with OM, and I hope she has done it as she said. It's also not unreasonable to expect her to go to counseling with you to save your marriage. Has she told you why she's unwilling to go?<P>Whatever discussions you have with her, please try not to have them in front of your children. There is already enough stress and tension in your household and your children should be spared that. They will eventually understand what is happening.<P>I also think your W is VERY homesick, which could be adding to both your troubles.<P>Kevan, please keep posting - it helps. When I was in crisis mode, I was on these boards every chance I had - everyone here saved my sanity. I know you love your W and want your marriage . . . keep working toward that goal without doing so much damage to YOU. {{{BIG HUG}}}}

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie7753:<BR><B><P>It is NOT unreasonable to expect her to end all contact with OM, and I hope she has done it as she said. It's also not unreasonable to expect her to go to counseling with you to save your marriage. Has she told you why she's unwilling to go?<BR> {{{BIG HUG}}}}</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks guys, so much.<P>Hey, one day up, one day down so it goes.<P>Why wont she go to counselling, she says she doesnt see how any starnger could help solve these types of problems, especially her emotions and her homesickness and wants to go back to SA. Sometimes I think she is just scared of hearing reality from someone else.<P>Yes, I also really hope too that she is telling me the truth and has broken off all contact with OM.<P>OK, as you say above, I must not get to the position of grovelling, I know that, I have done enough of that too in the last few months. Thats also why I have explained to her that I do have my rights in asking her to leave if she doesnt do her part too.<BR>One big mistake I did make a few weeks ago, in a moment of weakness and confusion after going thru Plan A/B and trying to get thru to her that we need full cooperation for this to work is that I do know there are things that I have to put right myself and I cannot demand from her that she break off any of her relationships until I can get myself stabilized. She has of course taken this the wrong way and has thrown it back in my face when I insisted that they break it off, after my sons insistence too.<BR>somehow I think she still does not see the actual purpose of breaking off all contact with him.<P>You know, one day I read good advice from these boards, then I hear advice from someone who has ended up divorecd and it sends me on a downer again.<P>Susie - thanks so much for the positive support and the big hugs.<P>Hey, I said to my wife last night that I fought for her once 24 years ago and I am prepared to do it all over again if I have to (not that I havent been doing this up to now) - this at least brought a smile to her face.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie7753:<BR><B><P>I also think your W is VERY homesick, which could be adding to both your troubles.<P>Kevan, please keep posting - it helps. When I was in crisis mode, I was on these boards every chance I had - everyone here saved my sanity. I know you love your W and want your marriage . . . keep working toward that goal without doing so much damage to YOU. {{{BIG HUG}}}}</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, she is very homesick, extremely so, which has been a problem ever since we got here, she has just not accepted the fact that this is our new life and has too many emotional ties back in South Africa, even though she knows the country is falling apart.<P>Although I do still not see this as any reason for going off and having an affair with someone, especially seeing that he is a Canadian too - seems a bit ironic doesnt it?<P>But, at the same time I know I cannot take my kids back there, it would be like taking everything away from them I have ever given them in life.<P>I am thus torn between my children and my wifes feelings and emotions. She has already told me that the kids mean more to me than she does.<P>It is not that she is completely miserable here, we have made good friends, are actually living a better life here, but she just cannot accept it and hates the colder weather here and that we dont have the beautiful home we had there.<P>Anyhow, besides the above, HOW HOW do I get rid of these suspicions and uncertainty and unsureness now that she is not telling me the whole truth, especially about her feelings towards me and contact with the OM. <BR>Yes I know I still keep on calling him a pig and so on, and dont think I will ever change my views towards him for doing his best to pull us apart. <BR>But I do also know that she wanted to climb into bed with him even before he was aware of it, so that doesnt make me feel any better either.<BR>She sees him as a friend, but what good friend does his best to pull someone's marriage apart?<P>As someone earlier said about their experience of PLAN A and ending up grovelling in fornt of their partner.<P>WHERE do you draw the line between showing your partner that you love them and care for them and still want them without it looking like you are grovelling before them and will do anything to get them to stay - is this not a thin line? <BR>This you have to try and do without upsetting them when you feel that they are being unfair to you and expecting you to just forget about everything and whenever you approach them with something that you feel they are doing to you that you dont like - bad temperedness, irritability, impatience and they just tell you to stop being so ridiculous and oversensitive.<P>HOW HOW HOW

Kevan, you're right . . . being homesick is no excuse for having an affair. I don't know how long you've been here - if it hasn't been very long it would make sense that she misses her home. However, I agree with you that it doesn't make sense to uproot your children to go back, especially in view of the political climate there, among other things. Maybe she should go back by herself for a visit - being without you and the children might give her a different perspective.<P>Getting rid of suspicions won't happen overnight. You need, and DESERVE, confirmation that she is no longer in contact with OM. If you need to do a bit of checking on your own, so be it. My H did a LOT of checking on me during my A and I don't blame him one bit - he had a right to know what was going on.<P>BTW, there's no point in calling OM a pig, even if that's what you think of him. Name calling will make her defensive of him. I know it's difficult for you, knowing that she felt desire for someone else - it's natural to feel threatened. This is something you should discuss with your counselor. My H is having the same issue, wondering how I could have been with someone else.<P>And you can show your W you love her without groveling. Just be there for her, talk to her (if she's willing), and show her that you're committed to her and your marriage. I get the feeling that it's difficult for you and your W to talk, but that's what you need to do. Maybe in time she'll consider going to counseling with you. In the meantime, keep going for YOURSELF. You need to stay strong.<P>I wish you strength and courage, Kevan. Hang in there!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie7753:<BR><B><P>I wish you strength and courage, Kevan. Hang in there!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks again Suzie, your encouragement does really help.<P>Someone has said that maybe I should print out and give her some of these replies to read, but I know that NO WAYS could I right now even let her know that I have been posting on these boards - she will go ballistic.<P>Hoooo boy am I in trouble today. I was invited out for drinks last night by my work colleagues. I phoned her and told her before I left work last night. She said thats fine as she was going to have drinks with the people at her work anyhow.<BR>She phoned me around 8pm as we were still in the pub. She was not too happy as she heard me say to the people I was with "its my wife on the phone".<BR>Anyhow we had a good time and some guys had too much to drink. I only got home at about 2am.<BR>I had to escort one of the guys home as he fell asleep on the bus and couldnt remember how to get home, so I walked him home, then his wife drove me home.<BR>Se she says to me this morning, really mad "so, whats good for the gander is not good for the goose, hey". After me bugging her and checking her everytime she goes out then I go and do something like this and do not even phone her to tell her where I am.........<BR>So I am really in the dogbox today, no amount of apologizing is helping, even told her that I do realize that I treated her with disrespect and I am very sorry about it, I DO NOT STAY OUT LATE LIKE THIS OFTEN><BR>She has gone out shopping for the afternoon in not a very good mood......

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie7753:<BR><B> I don't know how long you've been here - if it hasn't been very long it would make sense that she misses her home...........<P>Getting rid of suspicions won't happen overnight. You need, and DESERVE, confirmation that she is no longer in contact with OM. If you need to do a bit of checking on your own, so be it. My H did a LOT of checking on me during my A and I don't blame him one bit - he had a right to know what was going on.<P><BR>And you can show your W you love her without groveling. Just be there for her, talk to her (if she's willing), and show her that you're committed to her and your marriage. I get the feeling that it's difficult for you and your W to talk, but that's what you need to do. Maybe in time she'll consider going to counseling with you. In the meantime, keep going for YOURSELF. You need to stay strong.<P>I wish you strength and courage, Kevan. Hang in there!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>WE have been in Canada close on six years now, my wife has been back once to visit her parents and friends. I wanted her to go last year, but she insisted we all have a holiday to Mexico instaed. I feel it would have been much more worthwhile for her to go back instead of the one week we had in Mexico together as a family. She is just as homesick now as when we arrived, and keeps on throwing this up in my face.<P>SUSPICIONS - well here is another one. I took our car in to get the windshield replaced Saturday morning, of course I was really in trouble after Friday night. She pushed off shopping to the mall on Saturday as I said before. When the car was ready I had to catch two buses to go and collect it. The first bus stops outside the mall. I had 30 minutes between buses so went for a walk through the mall. I bumped into my wife in one of the shops. <BR>The first thing she said, out loud "Oh, so you are tracking me down again, hey" - can you imagine how good this made me feel. The shop attendant looked at me and gave me a real dirty look.<BR>Anyhow so I pushed off, feeling very frustrated, as no matter how much I try and explain to her, she just will not see it from my point of view and does not believe a word I say. I collected the car and went back to the mall to pick up my wife, and we stopped and had a burger in the food-court.<BR>I said to her, did she see the dirty look that the shop attendant gave me earlier when she came out with her comment, she just looked away and shrugged her shoulders.<BR>Yes, I do feel like I am the one grovelling all the time and trying to win her favor, but just get irritability and impatience dumped on me.<BR>I said to her last night, it would really make a big difference if I would just receive a bit of loving and intimacy, a little hug now and then and maybe a kiss - she just looked at me and said "You just dont get the picture do you?".<BR>How do you think I feel when it just seems like I have had to coerce her into all these decisions concerning us and then still get treated like this, although she says she does love me...................<BR>She does not seem to realize that I do have the right to know what is going on and just wants me to forget everything that has happened and let her be.<BR>I wonder if she would ever consider counselling, she is much too proud a person to admit she needs help.<BR>So this morning, I tried to get a hug again and got rebuffed. She was in a hurry to go back to the mall to exchange some clothes she bought for our son. <BR>I was getting dressed and she wanted another cup of coffee. I didnt get around to making it before she was ready to leave. When she got in the car with my son I could see she was mad at me again and I asked her what was wrong - to which she answered - "Well, I did want another cup of coffee before I went, but dont worry about me, I will get one at the mall" - This is just a small example of what I am having to put up with.<BR>Oh, by the way i just got a phone call from her now saying she is on her way home from the mall and wants to apologize about getting upset with me over the coffee...............<P>AM I BEING WRONG IN THE WAY I AM FEELING?<P>She tells me she loves me, she is sorry for the grief she has caused, but at the same time I feel very little forthcoming, everything I feel has been from my sdie, its me that wants to talk thing s out, work things out and have to push the issue all the time - this does not give me very much confidence in solving these issues.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie7753:<BR><B>Kevan, you're right . . . being homesick is no excuse for having an affair. <BR>Getting rid of suspicions won't happen overnight. You need, and DESERVE, confirmation that she is no longer in contact with OM. If you need to do a bit of checking on your own, so be it. My H did a LOT of checking on me during my A and I don't blame him one bit - he had a right to know what was going on.<BR>I wish you strength and courage, Kevan. Hang in there!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, welll this is a good one. I treid to talk to her again tonight and tell her about my feelings and how I could really do with some loving and a bit of intimacy as I am just feeling so frustrated constantly as it does not feel like she wants to be close to me.<BR>She says its because of all that has happened and the THINGS I HAVE DONE. I asked her what she means, she says its because I have been constantly following her, tracking her and checking up on her.<P>SHE SAYS THAT I AM HARASSING HER, it is the same as harassment, I do not have the right to do this to her.<P>I asked her then if I do not have the right to know what is going on in my marriage, does she not realize that I still have my fears and concerns and frustrations.<P>IS SHE RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT?<P>Suzie, as you say your husband did a lot of checking up on you, how did you feel about this? Am I overstepping my boundaries?<P>She is also mad because she found an article that I printed off concerning another couple that a similar thing had happened where the woman had been having sex with a man that was much better endowed than her husband and the woman felt that she was now stretched and her husband was now not big enough for her - of course the reply ot this article was that the woman should not feel this way ans should do some exercises to tighten up her vaginal muscles. <P>My wife is now very offended about this article, but of course has not said anything about it for weeks, she found it a long time ago but has never approached me about it....................<P>As much as I try and tell her that this did worry me and I am sorry, it still does worry me a bit, she just takes it personal and doesnt want to seem to see it from my side too...<P>How I wish she would just be more open and speak to me instead of me having to draw it out of her all the time.......<P>How do I stop being such a horrible person to her?<P>I am slowly losing my mind.................please help me out here.

Kevan, I was resentful of my H checking up on me while I was having the A and I was defensive about everything. Once the A was over, I could see clearly why he did what he did. He wanted to know what was going on and I denied EVERYTHING. Every question he asked me was met with an angry response. I, like your W, accused him of harrassing me, interrogating me, and treating me like a child. These are all defense mechanisms.<P>Why do you keep saying that you're a terrible person? Kevan, you have a right to expect the truth from your W. She doesn't seem to be able to see that right now, which is one good reason for getting some counseling.<P>BTW, some of your W's behavior indicates (to me, anyway) that she's feeling guilty. Guilt always seems to lead to anger (and defensiveness). And if she feels guilty over what she's done, that's good - feeling guilt means that a person DOES know the difference between right and wrong.<P>Another thing . . . physical intimacy will be difficult, even nonexistent, if your W is in withdrawal. She also seems to be harboring some resentments over the past, and these issues will need to be dealt with.<P>As far as your concern over your physical attributes, don't worry. It doesn't matter whether a musician has a violin or a cello . . . what matters is the music.<P>So stop being so hard on yourself. You're not doing anything wrong - like any other BS, you want answers. I'll say a prayer for you and your W.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie7753:<BR><B>Kevan, I was resentful of my H checking up on me while I was having the A and I was defensive about everything. Once the A was over, I could see clearly why he did what he did. <P>So stop being so hard on yourself. You're not doing anything wrong - like any other BS, you want answers. I'll say a prayer for you and your W. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Suzie, youjust dont know what a help you are to me right now. having the opportunity to chat with someone who has been in a very similar situation but from the other party is helping tremendously.<P>I suppose I am also maybe being over-anxious to get things sorted out, but it has now been over 7 months and I dont feel there has been much progress and I just feel like there is not much effort from her side, I have to do all the pushing.<P>All she says is that I am not looking at things from her point of view and that she is hurt and cannot get close to me because of EVERYTHING that has happened. I asked her then to spell it out for me, is it because of what she has done, what I did before the affair, or what I have done after the affair. She just says it is EVERYTHING that has happened.......................<P>I just feel over-frustrated.<P>No, I have stopped going to counselling, as this is just making her more angry.<P>No, she is not prepared in the least to go for counselling.<P>THIS IS SOME ADVICE I HAVE RECENTLY GOT FROM ANOTHER BULLETIN BOARD:<P>-----------------------------------------------------------<BR>"Her saying that you don't get the picture speaks volumes. SHe appears to be looking for reasons to leave. The incident at the mall, the coffee, lack of itimacy. All of these are ways to make you look unfavorable to her. This may be a way to make leaving easier for her. Of course she would regret it years later, but that means nothing to you. <P>A ask you again, Ask her if she wants to separate. I don't want to get in your business, but I seems that deep in your subconscience, you know it's not the way you want it to be. Of course, every story has two sides and I have not heard hers. However, your tip toeing around the real problems. I think its time to get frank with her. Ask her if she wants to end it. <BR>She sounds like a strong willed person and I am not passing any judgement on her. But she is away from home, I don't know where you guys met, but maybe the winds have changed direction for her. Maybe she doesn't feel it anymore. I don't know the true. Unfortunetly, neither do you. You have to probe for the answers. You've been married for 22 years, and the possiblity of begin single has to be frightening. But, it IS A REALITY. It may happen. 67% of infidelity cases end in divorce. You love her, she may love you. But that doesn't mean that she burns for you anymore. You must know that before something worse happens. You find her in bed with the jerk, or friends catch her somewhere, or you son finds out. He will then be mad a both of you. The key is asking the tough questions. You must be stronger than you have ever been in your life. This is no time to run into a shell. She would see that and turn away from you more. Moreover, your streghth spark a new fire in the relationship. Right now, she sees you running around and flowering her. She may hate that. "<P>This advice above is quite contrary to what I have been getting from all you good people here and I am not sure how to take this.<P>Can someone give me some comments on this?<P>------------------------------------------------------------<P>Suzie I owe you A VERY BIG HUG<P>I have said to her quite a few times I am going to move out, to which she gets upset and offended and says I am walking out on her. She also says where am I going to go, and it will just cost too much financially.

Kevan, why is the fact that YOU want counseling upsetting your W? If she doesn't want to go, there's not much you can do . . . but I don't understand her objection to you trying to get help for yourself. It's possible that she doesn't want the counselor to open your eyes, but you need to stay strong and get help for YOU. You won't be much good to yourself, your children or your W if you're falling apart.<P>At this point maybe what you should do is go to your W, tell her you love her and want it to work, and ask her what she wants. This does NOT mean groveling or letting her walk all over you. BTW, when she says she's upset with you for EVERYTHING and then won't get specific, it sounds like a smoke screen to me (as if she is looking for excuses).<P>It sounds to me that she really doesn't want you to leave, in spite of the problems that exist in the marriage. She could be feeling a lot of guilt and doesn't know how to make her way back to you.<P>One thing you will need a lot of is PATIENCE. Things will not get fixed overnight and they will not fix themselves. This is going to take time and work. Only you can decide if it's worth it. It seems to me that you think it is.<P>Hopefully you'll get more advice than just mine, but know that everyone here is pulling for you!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie7753:<BR><B>Kevan, why is the fact that YOU want counseling upsetting your W? If she doesn't want to go, there's not much you can do . . . but I don't understand her objection to you trying to get help for yourself. It's possible that she doesn't want the counselor to open your eyes, but you need to stay strong and get help for YOU. You won't be much good to yourself, your children or your W if you're falling apart.<P>At this point maybe what you should do is go to your W, tell her you love her and want it to work, and ask her what she wants. This does NOT mean groveling or letting her walk all over you. BTW, when she says she's upset with you for EVERYTHING and then won't get specific, it sounds like a smoke screen to me (as if she is looking for excuses).<P>It sounds to me that she really doesn't want you to leave, in spite of the problems that exist in the marriage. She could be feeling a lot of guilt and doesn't know how to make her way back to you.<P>One thing you will need a lot of is PATIENCE. Things will not get fixed overnight and they will not fix themselves. This is going to take time and work. Only you can decide if it's worth it. It seems to me that you think it is.<P>Hopefully you'll get more advice than just mine, but know that everyone here is pulling for you! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>She just feels that counselling is a waste of money and cannot see how a stranger can sort any of these problems out.<P>I have told her MANY times that I love her AND I want things to work out AND I do still want her otherwise I would have left or told her to get out along time ago. I have asked her more than once if she can tell me what she wants and what she wants to do with her life - she says she NEEDS TIME and JUST DOESNT KNOW RIGHT NOW. - but she has been saying this for months.<P>By EVERYTHING I asked her again last night what she means, is it me, the way I have handled things, does she not want me anymore, does she want someone else - she says, :<BR>My hounding her.....<BR>My tracking her.....<BR>My checking up on her.....<BR>She has to try and sort out what she is feeling.....<P>She is upset about the article I left concerning the penis size etc. I left lying around.... how do I think she feels that I am looking at things like this (I told her that she doesnt want to talk these things out with me so I have to try and get what info and support I can from other sources)<P>She doesnt know why I dont just accept that she is there at home, is that not enough...<BR>(Some of this is my own interpretation and the facial reaction I get when I ask her things)<P>I ask her what does she actually want from me, how must I treat her, what must I do to make it better - she says she doesnt feel she needs to COACH me. I must just stop bugging her and brining things up like this continuously...... I must just be myself - HOW DO I DO THIS as when I was "MYSELF" she went running around with another man?<P>Making her way back to me - as far as I am concerned is just opening her arms to me, giving me a hug and kiss now and then and not so much bitterness in her voice and some of her actions. I have told her this many many times. <P>I got more intimacy and warmth out of her while she was still having the affair than what I am getting now, but if I mention this to her I will just be told that I am just throwing the affair in her face and making her feel bad again.<P>One thing I must say I do really appreciate all YOUR patience with me on this. Hey, I really try hard, days on end to be extra nice to her, help her wherever I can around the house, but still just get so much grumpiness and irritableness in return most of the time, that eventually it just gets too much.<P><BR>I said to her on Sunday, take it easy, dont worry about cooking a big meal, she of course ignored me, then just got more upset when it took up much of her afternoon and the meal was only ready at 3pm, then the kids were not there to join us for lunch which made her more mad - "The kids just dontcare and I am just wasting so much food, why do I even bother cooking, they just do as they like, when are you going to discipline them more"<P>I cant seem to win whichever way I turn.<P>I had a terrible hangover on Saturday (yes, I know it was my own fault and stupididty from the night before), she was as mad as a snake with me. But I still did all the ironing for her, took the car in for the windshield, caught the bus home, vacuumed the house - then got screamed at and told that I had better not touch her clothes, she will iron her own things.<BR>

From what you've just posted, I think your W is in major withdrawal. If you're certain that she has broken off all contact with OM, that's probably what it is. Or maybe he was the one who ended it???<P>A WS in withdrawal isn't fun to be around. They're moody, depressed, irritable (does this sound familiar?), and resentful of the fact that the A is over. The best you can do right now is assure you that you love her, but don't pressure too much. Withdrawal is an ugly time for all concerned.<P>Something to think about . . . if you continue to work on YOU, you'll begin to feel better about yourself and will be happier. This could get your W's attention and make her wonder why you're doing so much better. Hey, it might just wake her up!<P>You said your W doesn't think a "stranger" can help with your problems . . . that is SO not true. Kevan, if it weren't for the counselor I don't know WHERE my H and I would be right now.<P>I wish you patience, Kevan. I hope your W wakes up before it's too late . . . she'll be losing a very special man who loves her very much.<P>{{{{{{ANOTHER HUG}}}}}} (I think you need one)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie7753:<BR><B>From what you've just posted, I think your W is in major withdrawal. If you're certain that she has broken off all contact with OM, that's probably what it is. Or maybe he was the one who ended it???<P>A WS in withdrawal isn't fun to be around. They're moody, depressed, irritable (does this sound familiar?), and resentful of the fact that the A is over. The best you can do right now is assure you that you love her, but don't pressure too much. Withdrawal is an ugly time for all concerned.<P>Something to think about . . . if you continue to work on YOU, you'll begin to feel better about yourself and will be happier. This could get your W's attention and make her wonder why you're doing so much better. Hey, it might just wake her up!<P>You said your W doesn't think a "stranger" can help with your problems . . . that is SO not true. Kevan, if it weren't for the counselor I don't know WHERE my H and I would be right now.<P>I wish you patience, Kevan. I hope your W wakes up before it's too late . . . she'll be losing a very special man who loves her very much.<P>{{{{{{ANOTHER HUG}}}}}} (I think you need one)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Naaahhh, I am sure it is just me being so neurotic and blowing things out of proportion.<P>Very possible she is in withdrawal ( I hope so anyhow. Makes it a bit difficult when she will not tell me exactly how she is feeling).<P>Of course I am not sure yet whether she has broken off all contact with OM creep. I onlly get some type of reassurance from her if I ask her and pressure her into telling me something. She never volunteers any information.<P>Yes, I am working on me all the time, trying to be as happy around her as I can, TRYING to ignore the bad moods.<P>If I told her once, I told her at least a dozen times this weekend how much she means to me, how attractive she is looking (which she is), how beautiful her big blue eyes are, how lovely her hairstyle is looking. Once or twice I did get a thankyou, but most of the time just a "Dont talk nonsense, its not true"<P>Suzie - KEEP UP THOSE HUGS, THANKYOU, I LOVE HUGS EVEN FROM STRANGERS (MIND YOU YOU ARE NOT A STRANGER ANY MORE - YOUR HUSBAND IS A VERY VERY FORTUNATE AND BLESSED MAN, TELL HIM THAT FROM ME)<P>LOTS OF HUGS FOR BOTH OF YOU FROM THIS SIDE TOO.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie7753:<BR><B><P>A WS in withdrawal isn't fun to be around. They're moody, depressed, irritable (does this sound familiar?), and resentful of the fact that the A is over. The best you can do right now is assure you that you love her, but don't pressure too much. Withdrawal is an ugly time for all concerned.<BR>{{{{{{ANOTHER HUG}}}}}} (I think you need one)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your comments and help really is appreciated in every way, I am gaining strength daily from these Bulletin/Discussion Boards:<P>I was approached with a 'luvly' one last night.<P>After dinner my wife tells me that she was chatting to a mutual friend of ours where she works, he asked her how our weekend went and she said "Pretty well even after Kevan going out with his workmates until 2am on Friday".<P>She says our friend seemed quite taken aback by this and he wanted to know (jokingly), "So, did he have glitter on his face when he came home" implying that we had been to a strip-joint or something of the likes.<BR>I could see immediately that she was taking a 'dig' at me about this.<BR>In other words, the tables are now turned and she has something to hold against me.<BR>I explained to her nicely that believe it or not we were accompanied by work colleagues and definitely did not go to such a place to which she answered "Yeah, right, tell me another one, do you really want be to believe that you and that good work-friend of yours didnt end up at one of those places".<BR>HEY, I DO NOT FREQUENT THESE TYPES OF ESTABLISHMENTS, YES, I'VE BEEN THERE ONCE OR TWICE.<BR>So, the tables are now turned and it is now my chance to get sensitive about being reminded about something naughty that I have done (and not be trusted by what I say) .....<BR>I reminded her of this at bedtime last night, to which she just got upset and said, whats wrong with you, it was meant as a joke. Yeah-right it definitely did not sound like a joke at dinnertime.<P>Oversensitive??????????<P><BR>

Kevin,<BR>I haven't followed your story that closely, but in reading your last few posts, it sounds like you are trying too hard and trying to do things yourself.<P>Go back to the home page of marriagebuilders and read up on Plan A. If your w feels you are checking up on her and harrassing her, guess what, you are! Also trying to "educate" the WS is a huge lovebuster, I know, I did thre same thing. <P><BR>You need to make her feel safe so that she wants to come back to you. Does it sound like she feels safe now??????<P><BR>I would recommend going to counseling. It can help you understand you and what you need to improve yourself in terms of relationships. Tell w you are doing it for you, not for her, not for the marriage, but for you.<P>The advice to have a frank discussion about her leaving seems to me to be the wrong one. It will get turned around so that you are throwing her out. <P>You have to Plan A.<P>Hang in,<P>Bob