everybody listening:<p>my H and i are pretty much ready to be divorced, which i hate with every fiber of my being. one thing that he keeps bringing up is that we hardly ever had sex (i admit this, but he kept saying it was ok the way it was). now, he's on this big rampage about us only doing it nineteen times in one year (he found an old journal of mine). it has certainly even decreased since then. i'd say between seven and twelve times a year. is that pretty infrequent? just wondered what the rest of the world is doing out there???? (we've been married over nine years). THANKS!

Not often enough! Personaly if I had my way 3-4 times a week (more if we didn't find small children in our bed each morning). But each partner needs to be considerate of the others needs. So we were pretty much on a every other day type schedule, until just recently when things slowed way down. This really hurt my feelings. Lots of things went through my head but the overwhelming feeling was one of rejection and hurt. I have been talking to him and we are going to see a Counsler so we can figure out what the problem is. Maybe you should do the same. Remember how often is often enough depends on the individuals not on some statistical average. <p>[This message has been edited by Christine (edited 01-16-99).]

I agree with Christine. It depends upon the two people involved. Before two weeks ago we had it every day. Now it is about every third day. I think you have to find what makes the two of you most comfortable. <p>Steph

I made a big mistake in my marriage, in thinking about how to compromise on the issue of different libidos. I always loved making love once into it, but didn't desire it. I kept explaining to my h that he needed to give me enough of a break to allow my desire to kick in. I never got to the point of hungering for it. He wanted it every other day and I was closer to twice a month. Our compromise ended up being about once a week, and guess what? He decided I didn't love him and had an affair. Well! Somehow that experience totally reset my libido - we have reconciled and for the past 4 months have been on an every other day schedule with some flexibility. I am amazed at the difference this has made. I guess my point in responding, is to let you know that people can change and that I don't think a mathematical compromise is the best solution when it comes to this subject. I should mention that I am 45 and felt I had had enough good sex to last a lifetime. I was so wrong!

Here is a guy's point of view. I would like to have some type of sex about three times a day everyday until I die. But if I don't that is ok. I feel comfortable with having sex two to three times a week. When my wife and I went without having sex for more then a week. I noticed myself becoming irratable, and cranky. If it lasted longer and my advances were steadily pushed away i become downright mean. By that I mean that I stopped doing things for her. I didn't feel loved. I thought that she didn't want me. A lack of sex plus rejection for a man is a very,very,very, bad thing for his ego. I never had an affair but the longer I went without the better other woman started to look and the worst my wife started to look. A man's ability to give love is directly tied to his sex drive. I never stopped loving my wife during our times of infrequent sex (2-3 weeks) but I did stop showing her that love. Something inside of me ( i guess my taker) would not allow me to give my love freely to my wife nor show her in words,gestures ect my depth of love. So I guess what I am trying to say is that most man want sex all the time but they can survive without it for awhile. But at what point they reach their breaking point depends on the man. Also if rejection of advances is added to the mix then that threshold is further downgraded. So it is not only a matter of fregency but also a matter of feeling desirable. Of the wife coming on to her husband, thinking of him in a sexual way ect that drives a man's sex drive.

For me, frequent sex is absolutely vital to a healthy marriage. How frequent depends upon the person but I could live with 2-3 times a week (once a day being the ideal).<p>You need to know your husband's level of frequency comfort. It is 'his need'. I think I speak for many men, if a guy doesn't have a sex needs met he will look elsewhere. Everything else in the marriage could be great, but nothing can compensate for sexual starvation. <p>One thing that can help is to come to a mutual agreement on frequency. Sure its not spontaneous, but nothing is worse than the anxiety of having sex and then never knowing when (or if) it occur again. He needs to have a solid comfort that his needs will be met so he doesn't worry about it or start looking elsewhere.

What if the woman is not in the mood? Are we supposed to submit when we don't want to? There is a word for that, you know. I would hate to think that I have to fulfill a man's needs at my expense.<p>I just don't associate the same things with sex that men do. If it doesn't happen, I don't get grumpy or think that I am unloved. Why is it that men are expressing feelings like this on this forum? <p>My husband would like sex more often than one or twice a week. He seems OK with the current situation, but has other outlets like videos and magazines. That makes me unhappy, and he knows that I do not approve but does it secretly. I checked the history on Netscape and got an eyefull that made me sick. I don't understand the importance men put on sex and sexual material. It is important enough to ignore the wishes of the spouse, to lie to cover it up, and to cheat if needs are not met. Isn't there supposed to be more to a relationship? Does this behavior seem shallow to anyone else?

Iris,<br>I don't understand the females need for conversation. Why must they talk to all their friends all the time. Why do they feel unloved if us men do not talk to them. And why do they need to be held and shown affection. And if they don't get it why do they cheat if they don't get affection. For the simple reason that men and women are DIFFERENT. We have DIFFERENT NEEDS. We express ourselves DIFFERENTLY. It is the ability of each spouse to understand and met those DIFFERENT NEEDS that makes for a strong marriage. If you do not understand that your husband's need is just as important as your need then you will not meet his needs and he in turn will not meet yours. If you do not understand thios concept please re-read this website with an open mind and see if you can begin to understand.

One other point. If you both follow the policy of joint agreement then you will not have to "submit" whenever he is in the mood. He should respect your feelings and your needs for companionship and affection also but in the end both of your needs must be met enthusasctically by both of you. You should strive to fulfill his need for sex. As well as he should strive to fulfill your needs. The internet porn is a very good indication that to him his need is not being met.

Good point, Rusty. Got me on that one! I have real trouble, though with fulfilling sex needs when I am not in the mood. It feels like a violation to me. I don't think that conversational needs can be viewed in the same way, do you? <p>You are right on with your point, though. We are not meeting each other's needs. Maybe if all my needs were being met I could willingly fulfill his sexual needs.<p>Where to start?

Iris, have you read any of Dr. Harley's books? I'd suggest reading "Give and Take" and then both "Love Busters" and "His Needs Her Needs". I'd also suggest reading "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. I think you'll find lots of good information in those.

Terri,<br>Funny you should mention the love languages book. When we went to counceling, we got that book as one of our "homework" assignments. I read the whole book, and my husband read some of it. He was not participating whole-heartedly, and the effort was dropped by both of us. After reading Rusty's comments I think I need to re-open that book. It's been a year since we read it.<p>It seems overwhelming that I have so many issues - his anger and sneaking porn, and his desire to sweep problems like this under the rug to avoid conflict. I do have faith that we can work on this, but I feel that alot of the initial effort will have to be mine.

Terri,<br>Funny you should mention the love languages book. When we went to counceling, we got that book as one of our "homework" assignments. I read the whole book, and my husband read some of it. He was not participating whole-heartedly, and the effort was dropped by both of us. After reading Rusty's comments I think I need to re-open that book. It's been a year since we read it.<p>It seems overwhelming that I have so many issues - his anger and sneaking porn, and his desire to sweep problems like this under the rug to avoid conflict. I do have faith that we can work on this, but I feel that alot of the initial effort will have to be mine.

Iris,<br>I do have a suggestion on where to start. why don't you tease him some. Flirt with him. Wear something sexy get him going. Ask him if he likes it. tell him you think he is very,very, sexy and that you want to make love to him(better yet tell him you want to screw his brains out). Tell him that there is something inside you that is not letting you do this. tell him it is this unmet need within you that until your taker is satisfied that the need is met you can't be the sex pot of his fantisies but if he could maybe meet this need then you would have no problem with unleashing the tigress within you. Basically show him and tell him you want him find himvery appealing and want to fullfill him in everyway but at the same time tell him for you to do that you need him to treat you how you want to be treated. Use his sex drive to advantage. There is no stronger compulsion for a man to change then to satisfy his sexual urges. You can either look on his needs as a curse or use them to your and your marriage's best potential.

Thanks, Rusty. I appreciate your candor. My husband is out of town and returning tomorrow I will try some of your suggestions. By the way, do you think I am making too much of the Internet porn? I loathe it and want him to stop looking at it. Also want him to throw away all the videos and mags he has hidden in the closet. I took the opportunity while he's gone to snoop around. It hurts me that he continues with it even though he know I disapprove. He has over 1200 hits on one site in the past 5 months. That's pretty bad!!!

Iris,<br>I use to look at porn also. I didn't see a problem with it but my wife did. she said it was like me cheating. this coming from a woman who cheated on me twice! But the point is that is how it made her feel. i should have respected her feelings about it. I didn't and it cost me major love points. I have never cheated on my wife but my use of porn "helped" me get satify my unmet sexual needs without cheating. If you meet his needs I really think the porn will stop. Or at least slow. One quick suggestion why don't you suggest that both of you watch a vidieo together. Do not judge it. If you do not like it then simply tell him you don't. Ask him to not to hide his behavior but be honest with you and promise that you will not degrade him for it. I think you will see a steady decrease in his use of it. After it is out in the open. You sound more hurt by his dishonesty then the porn itself. And it sounds like he would rather have you then the porn. so I think after a month or so the problem should take care of itself. If it doesn't then you need to talk with him. don't fight but explain that his use of porn is really affecting your sexual drive. Tell him that if he would put his attention towards you he would have the live version not the coomputer version it is his actions that is causing him to push you away. Again don't degrade him or belittle him just explain your feelings and leave it up to him to respect those feelings after you have made the effort to respect his feelings. Good Luck

Thanks for more good insight. I printed 2 copies of the Dr's Emotional Needs Questionnare, as well as the stuff on the most important needs and the love busters. I am going to read and ask my husband to read also. This plus advice on this forum I think will get us well down the road toward a better marriage. This has been more helpful than our 2 months of counceling sessions we had a year ago, so thank you for your time and willingness to offer suggestions.

I'm glad I could offer some insight. I wish my wife would read this sight and want our marriage but she is not ready yet. So I sit and wait. Hopefully when she is ready I will not be so resentful and hurt that I will give up. Praying everyday for the truth to sink in to her. Hopefully it will be soon. Good luck to you iris may you be the woman your husband needs you to be and may he be the husband you need him to be. Long road, hard work but in my opnion well worth the effort. God's prayer's to you

edited<p>[This message has been edited by Willis (edited July 20, 2000).]

I haven't posted lately because really my relationship isn't SO bad, we are getting along very well really. But the sex thing is STILL a problem. We might be having sex once a month now. (was probably more like every 6 weeks). <br>Rustynail---I used to wear the pretty things and get negative reactions. I used to say some things like you suggested, even very similiar to the one in ( ), but would get negative reactions. <br> I feel that even though things are better with us now, we haven't argued in a very long time (couple months maybe) I can't say that we have any level of intimacy that is satisifying to me.<br>PS----I am so jealous of you all having sex at least once a week!