Hi John,<P>you poor thing. To love someone who can be like that must be hell.<P>Do you honestly love her now? <P>If you do, let her go. She needs to do what she needs to do. But you need to protect yourself too. Focus on you and your child/children. Make your little family the priority in your life.<P>I agree with StevieB, and everything he said. She knows that you will be there for her, no matter what. And while she thinks that, she will keep on doing what she is doing.<P>I'm afraid I've heard some shocking stories about the way our spouses have treated some of us, but you're letting yourself be a doormat. Time and time again. You need to stop that. Have more respect for yourself. You deserve more than that.<P>Yes she needs help. But it's like a drug addict, until they reach rock bottom, and admit that they need help, THERE IS NO PROBLEM!!!<P>I worry for you. That you allow yourself to be treated so.<BR>Take care.<P>Jo

john1960,<P>Your wife and my wife. Same person?<P>Just kidding, but they're acting the same way. Surreal stuff ahead...<P>1-7, basically same. Same crap. They blame you so that will not have to look at themselves.<P>Do not chase. Let her go. She will drive you crazy otherwise. I just take care of my daughter, work on my new career, and enjoy life.<P>My wife's head is all screwed up. Her lies and adultery are eating her alive. (She claims to be a devoted Christian and even goes to church with the OM) She feels a ton of guilt. She is paranoid. She wonders if I am recording her to use it in court. (her "friends" filling her head with crap based upon what she has told them?) It has really gone to the surreal side. The other night after she tried to tell me where our daughter would go to school (not divorced yet, but I'm the primary custodian). I told her that though I agree with her (public school instead of private school, great public schools here and I don't have a lot of money), I have final say and I will respond negatively if I am treated poorly. I always consult with her on major issues, but I have final say. A few calls back and forth that night I asked her about the divorce papers. (Most contact in a quite a while) She was sitting on the papers from what I gather. I pointed out that she could not come back and I wanted to get closure. (She is the one that first filed) <P>The next day was wierd. I got home and she had left a message returning my page. What page? Spooky. Later that night, after picking up our daughter she called. I awoke to her talking about our daughter having blood in her diarrhea. I told her I didn't have any knowledge of it, but take her to the emergency room if necessary. (I carry the insurance and I gave her a copy of the card) She then goes into a tirade about the constant paging that was driving her crazy. I said that I honestly didn't and anyone could have called and put my number in. Surreal. (I haven't seen any blod either)<P>Excuse to call or is she trying to somehow (in her twisted mind) set me up? I also wonder if OM did page her with my number. His EW said he was wierd.<P>I guess her little world is falling apart.<P>The next day, she asked for some of my information to give to her lawyer.<P>Funny... I was hoping to find a post regarding my wife's behavior to see if anyone else has had a similar experience and yours is the first one I read. They're really out there aren't they?<P>Minimize any contact you have with your wife. It is in your best interest (keep you sane) and will accelerate her snapping out of the fog. I still doubt you can salvage your marriage. I know mine is finished. My wife has turned into her evil twin.<P>What is the 1960 bit? Do you live in Houston by chance?<P>IMHO, STAY AWAY FROM HER!!! Plan B at a minimum. As long as she thinks she has you on a line, she will keep playing you. Stop all contact with her. Do not spend another dime on her. Take care of your yourself and your daughter and that is all you are responsible for anymore.<P>Good Luck <P><p>[This message has been edited by father of 1, husband of 0 (edited February 25, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2ndchoice:<BR>[B]Hi,<P> Yhere are no bad people, just unsaved ones. Pray for her<P>If there are no bad people in the world, I'd like to know what world you live in. All of these posts and threads are evident of the fact that there is good and evil. We are also admonished that a dog returns to its vomit and don't cast your pearls before swine. In other words, disassociate yourself from these people. If you think there are no bad people, you should hear about some of the characters that I have had to deal with over the last twenty five years- murderers, child abusers, druggies, thieves, and yes, adulterers. <P>

Wow you guys! You really think that dropping her like a hot potato will do any good? <P>Well, nothing else has. So here goes.

Okieman,<BR> Yhank you for your comment of my comment of There area no bad people just unsaved ones. minus the type-o<P> My D left her H and he has custody (at this point) and she has herself a new little boyfriend. (sarcastic) So I prefer not to think of her as a BAD person. <P> Yes,Some people are Evil, the DEVIL has complete control over their souls.<P> My D is neither BAD or Evil. She is lost right now. She is a C.<P>------------------<BR>Deb

Sorry,<P> Unfinished paragraph above<P> He has temp custody of the 3 children. I guess I should read over my comments before I submit them.<BR> Former 2ndchoice<P>------------------<BR>Deb

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You really think that dropping her like a hot potato will do any good? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>John, I first responded to one of your posts over two years ago, and your situation has just gone from bad to worse. You’ve been holding that hot potato for so long I’m amazed you can still feel your hands. You need OUT of this destructive relationship, for your own good as well as your children’s (I think you have one daughter, yes?). I myself advocate trying all avenues for saving the marriage, but you have gone above and beyond the call of duty, and her “demands” are unreasonable and cruel at best. <P>It’s time to get out.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

John,<P>If you still love your wife, and want to hold on to the slim hope that your marriage might be restored, then I suggest that you go to a complete no contact separation (a Plan B). Do so with Steve Harley's help---you need to write a letter stating to your wife that her terms are unacceptable, and that while you believe in the marriage, you need to have her willing to earn back your trust before you reconcile. Tell her that until she's willing to talk to about this, that you need to have no contact with her to save your remaining love.<P>If there isn't any love remaining, then I concur with the rest of the crew and say "divorce her".<P>

I'm sorry this has happened to you - especially with children. My husband has done the same thing - after only 2 months of marriage - so I'm lucky no kids yet!! But really - letting go is the only way - and believe me it does get easier. I was with him for 7.5 years before we got married and I thought my life was over when I found out he was unfaithful before marriage and starting to drink with other women 2 months into the marriage. But you CAN'T MAKE SOMEONE BE WHA TYOU WANT - regardless - kids, marriage, nothing. Nothing can make them stay. My husband is doing the same thing - I am not answering his calls or calling him - he calls and says I called him and leaves long message - "sighs, oh well, i guess you're not ready to talk" etc. Openly admitting that I don't want to talk but at the same time saying I am calling him? Yes it is an excuse to call - when you stop chasing they want the thrill - its a chilly sport but they somehow love what they can't have - that's why the had the extramarital affair in the first place. And its true - if you love someone set them free - and in your case - you'll be better off - I'm 5 weeks out and I'm feeling so much better! I've lost alot of weight but no contact with him is so much easier!! I know you can get through this - I think you can do alot better too. Noone deserves the treatement you have gotten. She sounds almost like a sociopath - something I think is with my husband - or a SEVERE personality change - whatever it is - she is putting your life at risk - think of all the STDs out there! There are many women who will stay faithful!! Get out of this mess now while you can!! Good luck!!<P>------------------<BR>sad and worried

John,<P>She said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><P>1) I stop harassing her about who she sees every weekend, because she feels since we are now physically (not legally) separated, she has a right to see whoever she wants.<P>2) She needs "more" time to settle out her thoughts and get her life "straight".<P>3) I never ask her about her men friends and "the past" again.<P>4) She alleges that my investigation into her activities are making her a nervous wreck.<P>5) She is angry at me, because I have "made public with some of our friends that we are separated and that she was the source of the separation.<P>6) She is angry with me because I cost her her friendship with the girl who taught her that having an affair is ok as long as your husband doesn't find out.<P>7) That I trust her that she has not been dating any other men.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>John my feeling is that you can meet her "requests" and you can do it very effectively. Why?<P>Because she is describing a divorce. You can give her a divorce and meet all of her "requests". I am sure that her being free will lead to her having a happy marriage NOT.<P>At best I would consider Plan B, that will allow you to meet some of her demands. But to fully meet her demands a divorce is what is required.<P>I as many others here don't often recommend this but given the length of time, the number of affairs and her unwillingness to even see the "idiocy" of her demands, I think move toward divorce is all that you can do. MarriageBuilders offers you a variety of tools to restore a marriage, but not even Harley thinks all marriages can be saved.<P>If this marriage is to be saved she will need to completely change her outlook. Only she can. You have done all you can do John. Time to move on, perhaps via Plan B, but the destination is evident. Stop hurting yourself and your children.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

tanyadj,<P>That called to return your call bit. What call? Okay, he has the same script as my stbx betrayer wife. She called to return my page. What page? What happens next in the script? My stbx was threatening suicide today. My daughter had an "accident" at preschool today. She called me at work to tell me she was going to pick our daughter up. My stbx talked about losing her job and not having any money. (she's actually doing quite well) She left with going to commit suicide and hung up. I had no choice but to call ahead to the preschool, call the police, and do whatever I could to help. 1. protect my daughter 2. I would never like to see my daughter's mother dead 3. as a human being, I still care about my stbx<P>What a mess...

Dear Friends,<P>Your advice is timely and necessary. Unfortunately, complete separation is about the only option left if any. <P>I have come to 3 major conclusions about my love for my wife. <BR>1) The woman I love has changed and is no longer the person I once knew and loved. <BR>2) The woman I love was never who she purported to be and our marriage has been a farce since day 1, it just took me this long to realize it.<BR>3) My love for my wife is held in place now by the most tenuous of strings which is guarded by my love for my daughter and the wish that she can grow up in a single family household so that she can learn the importance of perseverance.<P>But the time has truly come to play the last card. So I will do it, and I will keep you all posted as to the results. There doesn't seem to be any other way to do this. I have tried every avenue short of laying on her doorstep and being her foot rag.<P>Thank you too all of you for your support

Hello all, if you are still reading. How do I go about Plan B when I have a 7 year old daughter around? Over the last few years, almost all of our mutual friends are no longer "mutual". So exchanges without seeing her are next to impossible.<P>Also, exactly what do I tell my daughter when she asks why I refuse to see her mother?<P>Asking for help once again.<P>Thanks

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Hello all, if you are still reading. How do I go about Plan B when I have a 7 year old daughter around? Over the last few years, almost all of our mutual friends are no longer "mutual". So exchanges without seeing her are next to impossible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They don’t need to be “mutual” friends, merely someone who you both would feel fine in dropping your daughter off with. Before K says it, I’d say call Steve Harley and get your ducks all lined up.<P>Personally, I would tell your wife that when she comes over, to please knock/ring the doorbell. Your daughter will be ready, and is very capable of answering the door herself. I would be in another room, and make sure your wife knows she is not to come in to YOUR home. Make the reverse work as well... if your W insists on answering the door at her home, merely ask for your daughter and turn your back when you get her.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also, exactly what do I tell my daughter when she asks why I refuse to see her mother?<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The Truth. Don’t let your wife destroy your relationship with your daughter by making you lie to her.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also, exactly what do I tell my daughter when she asks why I refuse to see her mother?<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The Truth. Don’t let your wife destroy your relationship with your daughter by making you lie to her.<P>I guess this is the hardest part for me. She is 7 years old. What part and how much of the "truth" do I tell her? What little I have told her has created huge arguments with my wife who says I'm trying to belittle her in front of her daughter. What I have told my daughter is that there are men in her mother's life who she chooses to see more than me and that I cannot go on being married in a situation like that. The problem is, my daughter now "hates" each man my wife sees and has told my wife that she hates them and behaves very badly around them. So what to do?<P>[/B][/QUOTE]<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> What little I have told her has created huge arguments with my wife who says I'm trying to belittle her in front of her daughter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don’t think that’s really your problem. Your wife decided on the priorities she was going to have, and this is going to be part of the cost. I certainly wouldn’t badmouth her, but I wouldn’t sacrifice your relationship with your child in order to prop your wife up either. [sarcasm]I mean... if what she’s doing is on the up-and-up, what is she so upset about?[/sarcasm]<P>That being said, I would <B>always</B> tell your daughter that her mommy loves her VERY much, and that this has <B>nothing</B> to do with her. I’d start AND end each conversation letting her know this. Your daughter may be taking a lot of this on herself, thinking it’s her fault. She needs to know otherwise, all the time.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

[.. if what she’s doing is on the up-and-up, what is she so upset about?[/sarcasm]<P>That's the problem. She denies that she has anything untoward going on with any of these men. That everything she is doing is ok and that there is nothing wrong with what she is doing. That is ok for her to have men who are "just friends" Only I know that these men are more than "just friends".<P>That's the difficult part. Her complete and total denial of her situation because she doesn't know that I know the details of her situation far beyond she could ever understand. But to bring that informant forward would destroy her ties with her own family. I can't do that. I see that as being wrong. What do you think?<P><p>[This message has been edited by john1960 (edited February 27, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> But to bring that informant forward would destroy her ties with her own family. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>First off... remember, I am by no means an expert here, and only have the very little information you have given us here to go on. I would suggest calling Steve Harley and working out how to deal with these very difficult issues.<P>I guess I don’t understand why her family has to find out at this point in time. No one in our families knows about my affair, except my father (whom I told during). If you reconcile, there is no need for them to know (and it’s none of their business, either). If you divorce, well... it’s not really your problem, is it? She’s made her bed, and lain in it with whomever she chose. I would most definitely make your primary effort at this time your relationship with your daughter, and covering yourself in the (what I see as inevitable) case of divorce. Perhaps you can use this information to get a better settlement/custody arrangement? In exchange for “keeping it quiet?”<P>She really doesn’t deserve you to be looking out for her at YOUR expense at this point.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

John,<BR>It is difficult to Plan B. My now x tried to just hang out when we were separated. I finally told her she was not welcome. I had problems too with her just walking in. One day I changed the garage door opener code and that ticked her off and she finally realized I was serious and started knocking.<P>Now she hardly comes in unless I am not home when she picks up the kids.<P>As for what you tell your d, tell her that you and spouse are having problems and can't live together. Don't go into details or allude to the affairs. <P>I did tell my d about adultery and she was 11 at the time. A counselor told me I shouldn't do this as it will have bad effects on the child(worse than a divorce?). <P>It creates hard feeling between the child and the wayward parent and this is damaging to the child. You want the child's relationship to be as nornal as possible under the situation.<P>Your d will see that om are around and know that is not normal. You don't need to tell her that. You are forcing her to criticize her mother who she loves no matter what. Who do you think comes out looking bad then.<P>YOU DO. You are attacking her mother.<P>I agree, Plan B is in order. Work the arrangements as best as possible.<P>Hang in,<P>Bob

You are forcing her to criticize her mother who she loves no matter what. Who do you think comes out looking bad then.<P>YOU DO. You are attacking her mother.<P>I agree, Plan B is in order. Work the arrangements as best as possible.<P>Hang in,<P>Bob[/B][/QUOTE]<P>Bob, I don't bring up the topics...my daughter does. And she pushes it to the point of either I condone what my wife is doing...or I at least acknowledge that there is a different style of life that my wife has chosen. I have never brought up or insinuated that my wife has committed adultery to my daughter. My daughter came to me and said, "Daddy, I know why Mommy wanted to move out, so she could commit adultery without you knowing about it and so she would have to keep her promise about being married." This statement came from a 7 year old, I didn't feed her or lead her into this observation...I had never even mentioned the word adultery to her before and didn't even know she knew the word, much less what it meant. <P>But when it comes to, is it ok then, what Mommy is doing? I have to say something and what I usually say is that I do not agree with what Mommy is doing and that is why we are not together<P><BR>