It's been several months since I've been here. I used to post **all** the time, and joined the "Over 2000 Posts Club" within a year of my first post. I've written several "Goodbye" messages, only to return... it seems I can't get Marriage Builders out of my head or heart. <P>I went back and did a search on my name, and read through as I tried to save my marriage, filed for divorce, fretted over the filing and subsequent ending to a love story I thought would last forever, fell in love with someone new and left MB "for good." If you are interested in a short version of my story, I wrote it in my last goodbye post, found here: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/005461.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/005461.html</A> <P>I didn't come back until now for several reasons. First, I had no internet, but happily I kept in touch with a few MB friends via the phone, and I was kept up to date on things on the board. Secondly, I had chosen a very difficult road with the new man (who I spoke of in some of my last posts), and felt that I had no place among marriage "builders." You see, I met him here, among those who posted on this site, and although I felt I'd done all I could to save my marriage, I wasn't sure he had done all he could to save his. His stbx had moved on with someone new, but my guilt and vulnerability kept me in a state of limbo/euphoria that reminded me very much of another time, not so long before, when I was an OW. In my mind, I reasoned that at the worst, I had (again) become an OW, and at the best, I was involved in a rebound relationship that probably wouldn't last. From an MB standpoint, it's probably seen as both. I know that my journals are filled with pages of torment and tears as I tried to make sense of what happened in my life to get to this point. <P>I am divorced and living far away from David and our children, who are thankfully standing on the edge of the nest themselves (or I <B>never</B> would have gone away)... but I talk to them daily and miss them like crazy. I am with the new man, and things have been, as I said above, difficult... for many reasons. Most of the reasons, to be honest, are due to me. I had a hard time letting go of David, although he clearly wanted to be let go of... that is, until we were actually divorced and I left ... then he was willing to leave his current OW (he *said* but didn't actually do)...but after five OW in our marriage (that I knew of), I just could never trust him again. That doesn't mean that it didn't hurt when he cried to me or that I didn't entertain the idea of giving him another chance before I left. As I said in so many of my later posts, I will always carry a love for the man who saved me from myself when I was 21... he just wasn't that man any longer, and he couldn't be trusted.<P>Because I believe that some of you will know exactly who the new man in my life is, all I will say is that he is a wonderfully warm and supportive man who I love, and who loves me. There is a peace in having someone in my life who has never hurt me. He treats me with the upmost care and respect, and throughout the last six months he has been my lifesaver in the storm. And out of respect for both he and his stbx, that is all I will say about him.<P>So, why am I here? I think I might have something of worth to offer... especially to those who are on the fence about divorcing, or are thinking about dating right away (As in, DON'T DO IT). Hindsight is, as they say, 20/20... and if I had it to do over again, I would have spent the requisite two years (you always hear about), ALONE with my kids before they took off into the world (one is nearly 20, next nearly 19 and our youngest is 16). I needed to grieve the loss of my 20 yr. marriage and sort out my feelings before beginning a relationship with someone new.<P>In closing, I'd like to offer this: I'm sure there are those of you who are shocked, angry, and/or confused about what has transpired over the last year regarding my past marriage and the new relationship. I would like to apologize to anyone who may have been hurt by my choices (insofar as my being a "bad" representative of MB principles). It was never my intention to hurt anyone.<P>~Sheryl<P> <P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

Hi Sheryl--<P>I won't comment on the new man or your choices, except to say that I hope everyone involved is healing and doing better. It IS good to see your name pop up, & that you are alive & well.<P>Hugs--<P>Kathi

I have to go back to get your history. You say "dating/don't do it". Please elaborate a little as to why not. I don't have any children, and yes, I am grieving over the end of my marriage. I keep getting such conflicting input on this matter.<P>

Hi Sheryl,<P>Glad to hear you are finding some peace at last. I'm still here but am trying to wean myself away.<P>Bob

Hi Sheryl,<BR>I have missed you. I think of you a lot and am glad you posted an update. Last summer you and I stood on similar, though definitely not the same, rocky crops of decision making. Maybe I'm a bit oblivious, but I don't know who the man is that you are now with and, to me, knowing is not a key element.<P>As I tried then to choose between my marriage and divorce, which seemed to likely have included an OM, I saw the changes in my H that I needed, and...of course in the odd way things sometimes go, the OM married someone else during my "thinking time" , taking himself out of the equation. He's now unhappily married...and I know without a doubt that the wife/partner he complains about, could have been me, and he'd have been complaining to her...he recently walked into a fast food restaurant where Guard & I were eating...I don't know if he knows I saw him, but I've been mulling things in the last week.<P>Making one choice always closes off other choices. Your David's continuing WS choices closed his future to you. I believe in Marriage Building, but I also know that even MB has some 2 year guidelines for outside time limits for self-protection. Some can't make it to 2 months of waiting, much less 2 years...some can go much longer. And when the betrayals are re-occuring or one on top of each other...it's a real soul-sucking experience.<P>You did the best you could at the time you did it. <P>None of us can change the past. And, as for not dating so soon, as we both know, it is hard advice to take when someone is nice to us in the midst of such un-niceness. But I agree wholeheartedly it is better to wait, and to take some time to rebuild ourselves and do some healing. I always thought of it as whacking the OM with baggage he hadn't packed, although he left me with at least one bag of new sh/stuff.<P>Guard & I are working our way through our issues, sometimes I think I'm having more trouble with his having repeatedly left me, than I am with his affair. I guess, reading your post, we deal with what we have to deal with, no matter where our decisions take us in the mean time.<P>My email is the same.<BR>Much love,<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

Hi <B>kam6318/Kathi</B>,<P>Yes, slowly... I believe everyone involved is healing... Thanks for the hugs, and here's a BIG ONE back atcha! <P>(((((Kathi)))))<P>Hello <B>REJECTED</B>,<P>It'll take you a week to go back over my history but I came here as a one-time betrayer that had been betrayed several times by my then-H. <P>Re: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> You say "dating/don't do it". Please elaborate a<BR>little as to why not. I don't have any children, and yes, I am grieving over the end of my marriage. I keep getting such conflicting input on this matter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Here's the problem with getting involved too quickly... in fact, we can use this post as an example. I called my new man before I ever posted this and told him about it. I was worried that something he might see here would hurt him, but believe in complete honesty (which I learned BIG TIME from here over the last two years) and felt he had a right to know I was coming here and posting. So, when I say something about my ex like... <P>"...then he was willing to leave his current OW (he *said* but didn't actually do)" ...<P>I am bringing baggage from the old relationship into the new one. I needed to get past the point of EVER bringing something like this up... there is still anger there... and it only hurts this relationship. Am I making sense?<P><BR>Hi <B>RWD/Bob</B>,<P>Oh, good luck on the weaning... although... I feel a sense of closure having written this... maybe now... and hopefully we help people while we're waiting...<P>Ah, my dearest <B>Lor</B>,<P>Wow, you've said so much here... first of all, thank you for recognizing that I did the best I could at the time... and yes, how true it is that when we are vulnerable we reach out to others, and hang on to those who seem to understand so well...<P>I miss you too... and in the move and all I've lost many of my addy's... if you have mine, please feel free to write... otherwise, I'll come back and ask for yours again...<P>I am so happy that you and Guard are working through your issues... I can understand the "leaving you" aspect, as someone who fears abandonment. <P>Love to you too...<P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 08, 2001).]

I'm so glad I popped on to find you!!!<P>And I'm so glad to hear you're doing pretty well. We all do the best we can with what we have in front of us...you know I won't beat you up over anything.<P>Oh, my stars it's good to hear from you!<P>Anyway, take care, dear friend. I wish you all the happiness in the world. I sure miss our talks.<P>Love,<P>Lori

ohmygosh Lori! <P>You are my personal hero, ya know that?!<P>I miss our talks too... and honestly, after checking the board off and on all day shows me something else I miss...I miss the old MB! It's so quiet compared to the rapid-fire MB of old. Maybe that's a good thing... maybe it means there is less infidelity?? Wishful thinking, eh?<P>Love you too...

Hey NB!<P>I'm glad I occasionally look on this forum to check for names I recognize! You sound good, like you are "back in form", and I agree that you have MUCH to offer. Not just about divorce!<P>Like Lor, I have no idea who the man in your life is. But I do hope that he knows how lucky he is! Totally agree with you about missing the old MB. I don't feel like there is much of a place for me here anymore. I was just thinking earlier how nice it would be to have a section just for all of the big-time, long-term posters, sort of a "veterans" forum maybe!<P>Anyway, it sure is good to see your name here again, especially with a positive update!<P>Peppermint

Hi Sheryl,<P> I'm glad you are doing better and I'm sorry for all of the suffering you have gone through and I know I'm going to get flamed.<P> You left your kids (and I remember that the youngest is a special needs child) to be with a man who is still married? I'm sorry I can't sit here (and God knows I haven't walked in your shoes) and say I'm happy for you. I feel bad for your kids , especially the 16yr. old since I have one of those and know how much they need their mother.<BR> <BR> So, I've said it, flame away, but I'm thinking about the kids.......LU<p>[This message has been edited by Lu (edited March 09, 2001).]

Gee Sheryl,<P>I'll be far less kind. You:<P>1. Started an affair with a married man, who you "lured" by striking up a friendship with his wife here at MarriageBuilders.<P>2. Now have left your ex-husband and kids to join your lover.<P>There's nothing shocking about this, but it's the same old affair story. It is written by someone who's warm, funny, literate, intellegent---but it's the same old story.<P>It's not right, and it's very unlikely to bring either one of you lasting happiness. And it's more likely to damage your children, as well as your OM's kids. As you said---I'm sure that you never intentionally meant to do this: but most affairs aren't intentional. They're still devestating to all involved---but that's not usually intentional.<P>I hope you get around to doing the RIGHT thing, instead of settling for a quick "feels good" fix.<P><p>[This message has been edited by K (edited March 09, 2001).]

Hi Honey ... .remember me?<P>Your post made me cry .... I'm sorry for all the pain ... <P>I don't have any words of wisdom, since I live in a dark place myself these days ... but I wanted you to know I saw your post and feel for ya!<P>

Hi <B>peppermint</B>,<P>It's nice to see you too!! Thanks for the kind words... and sending you big hugs!<P>Hi <B>Lu</B>,<P>No flames from me. You see, I know how it all sounds, and how it felt to me as it was happening... it felt surreal, and it felt wrong. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and it is solid. <P>Yes, my son has special needs. I am trusting that his father has the ability to care for him as I always did. So far, he (David) has had a bit of a rocky beginning, but seems to be living up to what I knew he had in him if I gave him the chance. I think about my children all the time... all the time. They are not forgotten, or ignored.<P>Thank you for caring... truly.<P>Well <B>K</B>,<P>You know the only thing I take exception to... in all of your post... is the "lured" part. <P>You think I began a friendship with his stbx to get to him? Let me tell you how it was: I began a friendship with his stbx because I felt she had something to offer me TO HELP REPAIR MY MARRIAGE, and she did have a lot of insight. We became *very* good friends. What happened afterward is between she and I, and all I can do is assure you that there was no covert planning AT ALL. <P>K, of course I expected this from you. I know you are a man of integrity and that you have no problem stating exactly what's on your mind. <P>Please remember, my dear K, that you are getting bits and pieces of stories here, the parts that we choose to tell, and that there are so many details that you don't know.<P>Oh <B>Maya</B>,<P>Oh, dear, dear Maya, why are you hurting??? My work addy is of course closed, buy my personal one is the same... please write and let me know. I've missed talking with you and I care...<P>((((((((((Maya))))))))))<P>Thank you to everyone for your words of wisdom and caring...<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

<BR>Well, well, well. Look what the cat dragged in. Our resident drama queen, n_b, has surfaced. <P>K, I know a bit about Sheryl and I gotta take issue with the "lured" part. "Lured" implies premeditation, and I have no reason to believe that Sheryl acted with such maliciousness. My take on her situation is that her marriage probably was doomed, and I think after enduring five affairs anyone is entitled to pull the plug. Still, her case is a cautionary one about the power of cyber romance to start something bigger. Her biggest mistake was moving so far away from her children to be with the OM. Simply put, I find such an action indefensible. But if there's an upside, at least she hasn't married this guy. <P>Bystander

Hi Sheryl:<P>Glad to see you are still alive, although you sound almost like you need a little reassurance. I just wanted you to know I read this and am thinking of you.<P>Tanya

NB - I'm fairly new around here. And i'm not getting a D. But you have a very long story. I've spent many hours trying to get my computer to cooperate with the search function. Anyway, I was curious to know what a soon to be divorced man would offer a woman that would have her leave her very own children for him? I am not judging, or flaming, or anything else. Wouldn't it have been better to try a "long distance" relationship until his D was final. If it was truly meant to be, being apart wouldn't damage your relationship. I'm sorry that you left your family (your children) under whatever circumstances. I don't have any kids yet, but I think I would hate my parents if either one did that to me. They were divorced but remained very closly involved in our lives.<P>Just my little opinion.

The cat drug me in, eh <B>Bystander</B>... and DRAMA QUEEEN, me? Nah! <P>I appreciate your comments... and I'm still thinking about what you mean by your last statement... are you going to tell me?<P>It's nice to see you among the living!! I always enjoyed reading your thoughts on things, esp. regardiing children of divorce.<P>Oh hi <B>Tanya</B>!!!! You have mail, I hope... I sent it a week ago! Check it out! Big Hugs, Tanya!<P>I'm not looking for a pat on the back here. Maybe yes, some support... but acceptance of what I did? No. Maybe some understanding though... and I feel that I have GOTTEN THAT here... and I thank you... and I mean ALL OF YOU for your comments, and for caring enough to write.<P><B>K</B>, I am sorry that you were personally offended by my choices. You are exactly the person I directed my apology to... <P>I know you are angry with me. That's okay, although I know you don't need my permission. The more I've thought about what you've written, the more I wondered why you are **SO** ANGRY... moreso than I would have guessed, even for you. Go back K, and read my last message (url above) and you will read that I was honest then about the new man I had met, who had a stbx. You wished me well then, K. My sin was omission, in that I didn't say the new man was met here... but I did say I had met a new man and that he was ending a long term marriage, as I was at the time. <P>You are someone I have long respected and admired. I believe we have treated each other with mutual respect over the last 18 months. <P>I guess that's why I ask these questions...<BR>

Hello <B>Skipper</B>,<P>You and I were posting at the same time <P>You ask some excellent questions, certainly questions I've asked myself over the last four months or so...<P>First, my story is VERY long... and really doesn't include much about my situation now. I was trying to save my marriage for all but the very last of my posts. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Anyway, I was curious to know what a soon to be divorced man would offer a woman that would have her leave her very own children for him?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I suppose that this is the question that everyone wants to know the answer to... and I guess it would be from an "OW" standpoint, right? I think it deserves an answer:<P>First, my ONLY defense regarding my children is that they are older. Had they been even two years younger I would never have left. I will tell you that we went to therapy together before I left, and that it was a gut-wrenching decision. I love my children. That I wish to make clear!!! <P>The new relationship offered a LOT, and I promise not to use words that will make anyone throw up (like soulmate). <P>Of course, first and foremost, it offers a safe place where there is unconditional love. Of course, my children love me unconditionally too, but their father was always in the mix there. He was emotionally abusive and drained me of my will to live... I simply couldn't take it anymore. <P>It offered a distance between my ex and me, which was needed desperately. (The caveat, of course, being distance from my children)<P>And finally, it offered me support (both emotionally and financially) while I look for a new job (I worked with the OM which brought me to MB in the first place). I placed this last for a reason, it is last. But it did factor into the decision to move.<P>As I flew back from seeing my kids at Christmas I wrote in my journal about what it was about this man that could take me away from them. It's a very good question. The things I've listed above are true, and they are the only real reasons I left. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am not judging, or flaming, or anything else. Wouldn't it have been better to try a "long distance" relationship until his D was final. If it was truly meant to be, being apart wouldn't damage your relationship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh yes, that would have been ideal, and I think I said it above... it IS what I should have done!! See, here's the thing... it's NOT WHAT I DID, and although in hindsight it would have been the smarter, kinder (to all involved) thing to do...I'm here now, and trying to make the best of it. All I can say is that I tried to make a good decision...<P>And, no offense taken... and I hope not felt from my direction... <BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 09, 2001).]

Is it possible to move back for the time being just to be closer to the kids?

Hi again Skipper,<P>Well, let's just say that I cut off all possibility of ever going back there. <P>David moved back into our house with the kids. So I have no place to live. He sold my car. I have no transportation (no busses where we were either). I quit my job, so no employment, therefore, no money. So, if I did go back there, even for a little while, I'd be homeless and broke. <P>Of course, I could have asked David to take me back, and I have no doubt that he would - and I would be punished, as I was before I left. No thanks.<P>I actually talked to my mother about this very thing... going back temporarily. She lives 100 miles from my kids. She said I can stay for a couple of days, no longer... just long enough to take care of pressing business, not long-term. Of course, I know they would feed me for awhile too... but you have to understand that my mother's words when I married David were: "You are never welcome to come back here if you've made a mistake. You have to be an adult and be responsible. This is your decision, you live with it." She still lives by that creed. She loves me enough to make me live with my decisions, right or wrong.<P>Frankly, she never wants to see David again, and said if I ever went back to him she'd disown me. She retracted it later and said that she loves me and only wants what's best for me. She's a therapist, and is willing to go to bat for my son against my ex, if necessary. That's still a possibility, but I don't want to hurt my ex more than he has been already (he realizes much of his part in the breakdown of the marriage now, but "realizing" isn't enough). Fighting with my mother would be hell for him. I do still care for him, even though it was so terrible for so long.<P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 09, 2001).]