Hello New_ Beggings,<P> I don't know your story or you. There is just one thing that stuck in my mind as I was reading this, and maybe the reason you are back?? Did you say you and your new person have been together for 6 months?? Are you coming out of the fog?<P> Just curious<P>------------------<BR>Deb

Good morning <B>Student</B>,<P>Oh yeah, that JL knows a thing or two! <P>Hi <B>Deb</B>,<P>Thanks for taking the time to read through this and for your question...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Are you coming out of the fog?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The time frame doesn't really support it - in that, I met him in person several months before planning to move in with him. That puts us back about nine months. I moved in four months ago. <P>My problem has always been, and continues to be, that I miss my children, and that my ex is part-and-parcel with them. So, my confusion, when there has been any, has been with the teasing apart of "my children" and "my ex" and "my family" (which includes them all). I have said on numerous occasions that I will always carry a love for David, even earlier on this thread. That is true. Part of it is that he was and always will be the father of my children, and part of it is that, as I said before, he saved me from myself. No matter what we did to each other, I will carry that in my heart.<P>There is also the grieving process that needs to be considered. That is why I speak to the idea of dating (and esp. falling in love with someone) too soon. I felt a loyalty to David, even after I left him (and was divorced)... that took some time to overcome. Was it me coming out of "the fog"?? Not in the Harley sense. <P>I came back here with the (possibly) misguided notion that I could help some folks, and maybe begin another season of healing for myself. <P>Excellent question,Deb.

Hi again,<P> Did your H change his destructive behaviour? Is he in plan A??? Do you miss him? I would miss mine after 20 years. I can't imagine life without him. He is a WS also, but I have spent 20 years with him, also. I was married before, so I have no desire to find anyone else. <P> Of course like I said, I don't know your story. You just sound homesick,to me.<P>------------------<BR>Deb

Hi again Deb,<P>To answer your questions:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Did your H change his destructive behaviour?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He changed *some* of his destructive behaviors... He still has the OW that I spoke of in my initial post (the church lady for those who remember). But then again, a case could be made for my being with an "OM" again, as I said in my initial post also. So, in a way, yes, we both still have some of our destructive behaviors.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is he in plan A??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He never appreciated the Harley principles, and did not Plan-anything me. I did try to Plan A him, but to no avail. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Do you miss him?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I miss certain things about him, certainly. I don't miss the fighting, the belittling, the punishment, the name-calling, to name a few things.<P>I miss the man who WAS my husband once, and who was my best friend. He took those things away from me, I believe. And I'm SURE he'd say the same about me... looking back, I see both sides pretty clearly. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I was married before, so I have no desire to find anyone else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>David was my first marriage, and I believed we could fix it no matter what... at least for many years. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You just sound homesick,to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am. I miss my kids, the weather (the SUN), working, my dogs and cats even... <P>...but what I have gained may well be worth the pain it took to get here. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 10, 2001).]

So why didn't this man move to where you were so you could be closer to your children?<P>Just wondering.<P>------------------<BR>I just want to sit in the garden in peace~~<P>*Statue*

Hello Statue,<P>Well, I'm sitting here alone with my cat and catching whenever a message is posted... I guess I really need to read a book or something, eh?<P>You ask a valid question:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So why didn't this man move to where you were so you could be closer to your children?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The answer is actually quite simple... his children are younger. <P>We agonized over the decision and it was even discussed with all parties involved (including my children). <P>I suspect this topic is getting old... or maybe not... it is obvious that it's a hot topic, at least an interesting one to debate. I suppose that all I can say at this time is that I TRULY made all decisions regarding my life, the lives of my ex and children, and the lives of the new man, his children and his stbx, with as much information and advice as I could find.<P>Thanks for the question, Statue.<P>

Hi again,<P> Yes, I also was wondering myself about Statues question. I figured I was getting to personal already.<P> But, I left my H for a week and our 18 year old D did not like it, even though she pretended it was, ok. She does not want us to seperate, she would feel like an orphan. Funny huh?? <P> I don't want to either. To much to miss. Shared Grandchildren, shared good and bad times. Is your EH willing to reconcile?? Or is it to late for you. <P> What about your new M? Does his stbx want a D?? Does he??<P> So many questions you must be asking yourself?? or are we just way behind here, and you have already decided. But, you did rejoin the forum. There is a reason.<P> <P>------------------<BR>Deb

Well Deb, since I'm still here I'll answer your questions...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yes, I also was wondering myself about Statues question. I figured I was getting to personal already.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is a public forum, and you needn't worry about getting too personal around here. Ask anything you like. Most people here are very honest!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But, I left my H for a week and our 18 year old D did not like it, even though she pretended it was, ok. She does not want us to seperate, she would feel like an orphan. Funny huh??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually I understand from a personal perspective. My parents seperated when I was 38. I might as well have been 8. It hurt like hell. Kids always want their parents together, no matter how old they are. I know my kids would like to see us (their dad and I) back to the way it USED TO BE <B>BEFORE</B> everything happened. Of course, time only goes forward, and that can never be. They told me outright, both while alone and in a therapists office, that they were sick of how their father was treating me, and that they supported my move. I know, you (and anyone else) might say that they were lying because they love me. If that's the case, I can only continue to assure them of my love for them... <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>To much to miss. Shared Grandchildren, shared good and bad times.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree... a lot to miss... and I've thought about a lot of things, esp. the shared grandparenting. Still, I felt it was best to go.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is your EH willing to reconcile?? Or is it to late for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is too late for me. That doesn't mean I hate, or even dislike, my ex. It was just far too painful to stay. I will not trash him... you may certainly do a search on me, and even the most superficial search will show you how things between us were... there was love there, always, and I did seek out therapy for me, for us... all of this before I even knew of this man I'm living with now. And of course, I came here, to MB, to try and learn. It just didn't work for us. <P>He has told the kids that he wishes I were there with them, but has not asked me outright. Before I left, he tried many times to get me to the bedroom, but would not stop seeing his OW... again, it is outlined in my posts from last year.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What about your new M? Does his stbx want a D?? Does he??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't want to ignore a question entirely. As I said above, in my original post, I can not speak for either of them. This is nothing personal towards you or anyone else here... I am trying to be as respectful of their privacy as possible, since some here know them. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So many questions you must be asking yourself?? or are we just way behind here, and you have already decided. But, you did rejoin the forum. There is a reason.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, lots of questions... asked before I moved, and after. Yes, I have already decided, or else I wouldn't have left my home thousands of miles away. Although it hasn't been an easy choice.<P>As I've tried to reason over the last two days, I agree there is a reason I came back here. Realize though, I came back to the D/D board, not to recover my past-marriage, but to check in with some I knew and missed, to update, and possibly help, and to help myself with this massive change.<P>This has been a very eye-opening experience for me.<P>Thank you so much for your concern...<P>

ME Again,<P> He has young children?? You poor thing. You get to be a wicked stepmom. I did that, not fun. They wanted their dad and mom, together. It did not even matter to them that thier mom got remarried before their dad did. They were just children. Grown up now. But it did take its tole on all concerned. I am not even the bossy type. Most kids like me. They were jealous. I feel for them, not their fault.<P>------------------<BR>Deb

OHHHHH,<P> I think I understand!! You were married to my H. Mine only had 1 A, but the real problem is him. He is controlling, self healing, self absorbed, Work alholic,<BR>I need to see a shrink, but he is ok???? My Giver is giving up.. My older children would understand if I left him.<P> If I do leave this H. I will take heed of your advice. I will tread lightly. I have done it twice already. Twice bitten, 100 times shy I guess.. <P>------------------<BR>Deb

Removed.<p>[This message has been edited by StillHers (edited March 10, 2001).]

SHERYL <P>Wow, so happy to see your name here. I still lurk. Maybe once every two weeks. I can't seem to get away from here either. ANyways, you know, as far as all the comments in the last FOUR pages I had to catch up on (whew!!), all I can say is... No one here or anywhere can throw any stones. I love you regardless of your successes or failures. We all have our opinions sheryl and what's right for me may not be what's right for you and vice versa. So you do what's right for you and make the best of the situation you're in. You deserve to be happy. You've been thru a lot and sometimes when we are hurt and in pain we don't make the best of choices, but we live, learn and move on. None of us are on the same time-table here, so take it at your on pace. <P>I love ya Sheryl... I'll probably post and update soon, but just to keep it short, I'm doing soooooo much better.<P>------------------<BR><B>God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can...And the wisdom to know the difference.</B>**edit**

Thank you Steve,<P> I guess my life is full of painful experiences, just like many others. I am hypersensitive. <P> Since my H A, I see the cup as empty. I in no means want Cheryl to feel quilty. It's more of a LOOK OUT, attitude I have developed. I do it to my SIL,too. My D left him and three small children. If he got involved with another woman, he would dump her if my D wanted him back. Just another broken person, again.<P>------------------<BR>Deb

Hi <B>Jamie Lee</B>,<P>I'm SO HAPPY to hear that things are better!! Thank you so much for your support and love. <P>Hi again <B>Deb</B>,<P>Thanks for hanging out with me today, and for attempting to understand my situation. I'm sorry for your pain.<P><B>StillHers</B>,<P>I agree that this is a place where compassion and accountability are important, and of course it's also a public forum, as well. <P>Apologies aside, I literally shook as I read your post. You "outed" the people you believe are the catalysts for my move.<P>I am honest, and I have been very honest throughout this thread. I don't know why you felt the need to mention anyone by name. This thread was not about anyone else, it was about <B>ME and MY SITUATION</B>. I went to great lengths to respect the privacy of anyone involved, and now I'm put in a very awkward position. I will neither affirm or deny what you've said--<P>I guess the answer to the question of whether I belong here or not have been answered. <P>I thank those of you who held out your hands and hearts to me, both over the last several days, and the last 18 months. I feel very blessed to have found you. <P>I said it at the beginning, somewhere in the middle, and now here, at the end. It was never my intention to hurt anyone...<P>God Bless everyone,<P>Sheryl<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bnbsdbG:<BR><B><BR>...Since my H A, I see the cup as empty. I in no means want Cheryl to feel quilty.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Deb</B>, I'm sorry that you have so much pain, both from your marriage and your kids. I had thought from several of your posts that you seemed somewhat down the last few days. I'm afraid I have no great advice, just empathy and prayers to offer.<P>Steve<p>[This message has been edited by StillHers (edited March 10, 2001).]

Stillhers,<P>Unfortunately, you didn't post the last post by the person in question, where she got back with IG after having him removed from her home multiple times. The last post stated that she wanted IG not her H. And that was how things were left.<P>I have to agree with Sheryl, it really served no purpose for the other people involved in this to be posted. It obviously won't save her marriage and I doubt that it will save the other peoples marriage, since she was indeed involved with multiple OM. I believe her H left home at her encouragement. As she posted many many times she felt he had failed her, but of course that was her interpretation of a very difficult and complex situation.<P>I believe Sheryl is fully aware of her situation. I also believe that she knows what she is trying to heal from. We don't. I guess I would recommend that you go back and read her thousands of posts here. It just may give you a different view of this whole mess.<P>JL<p>[This message has been edited by Just Learning (edited March 10, 2001).]

Removed.

Hello,<P> Read post, and others posts on this forum. My first H was B/P which at the time I was unaware of this. He knew. He was 10 years older than me. Stupid at 19. Hippi days.<P> He was abusive P/M, Had multiple A. Drug and Alcohol abuser. died when I was 28. Drowned. <P> I personally, do not think mental illness is an excuse for your actions. Get Help. Why drag everyone else down to the sewer with it? I would have gladly left the man. He was not anyone I could love. Unless you like banging your head against a brick wall!!!!<P>------------------<BR>Deb

new_beginning,<P>Long time no see or should that be long time no type ? <P>I have always known that there was a chance of people here becoming attracted to one another, afterall we have all shared much pain here. And we were all able to understand one anothers emotions because most of us were feeling the same thing . <P>I personally do not see a problem with people here who have ended their marriages getting together. It does worry me if it happens while while the marriages are on going.<P>I think as long as we are all aware that this can happen and do our best to keep our friendships with the opposite sex public and on the board until those marriages have ended beyond a doubt, we can continue to help one another along this road. <P>I can't judge because I don't know the details, I just hope people will consider the potential for hurting those we profess to love before persuing things like this. <P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>

<B>JL</B>,<P>You're probably right about Sheryl's situation. I suspect that she did her best in a bad situation, and that it might even be unhealthy for her to have tried any longer. However, I was really thinking of the other relationship which I referred to. I did read ALL of their posts, including the one you refer to, many twice. I got the distinct impression that if they could both have left OP out of the picture long enough they MIGHT have saved their marriage. Maybe still might. Yes, I know that the wife in question had other problems besides marital ones--hers seem to be somewhat similar to those of my own wife. In any case I am quite reluctant to think that a romantic relationship with anyone who is still legally married to another is for the best of anyone concerned. Given the marriages ready to be "left for dead" which have been resurrected here I suspect you would agree. WSs go back and forth and sometimes finally come back for good. Best to wait for at least legal finality IMO.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Just Learning:<BR><B><BR>I have to agree with Sheryl, it really served no purpose for the other people involved in this to be posted.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Here I will agree with you. I'd rather be helpful than right, and I wish I had not said anything. Perhaps you can help me with a strategic edit of your post.<P><B>Sheryl</B>,<P>I'm sorry. My intent was clarification, rather than outing. Perhaps that which seemed obvious to me was not for everyone, and I'm sorry that I caused you pain. The saying "never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" comes to mind. My lack of malice did not prevent your discomfort and I regret that.<P>I'll now go quietly to the penalty box.<P>Steve<p>[This message has been edited by StillHers (edited March 10, 2001).]