Nellie,<P>I am sorry to hear your situation isn't getting any better. I can relate to a lot of what your saying about the financial problems. I always worked full time before the break up, but ex left me with all HIS debt that he wouldn't pay. I didn't want my credit ruined so I payed for a year. Then I realized that I needed that extra $500 a month for my kids so I had to file bankruptcy too. It's not final yet, but I hate to do it already. I wish I had an answer for you but I don't. I also was trying in the very beginning to make things easy, while working on Plan A, and I took a bad settlement that I regret now. <P>It's very easy for the wayward to go on to a better life financially, they have no responsibility now as far as the full burden of kids like we do. Many don't even pay the minimum they are required to pay for child support, which in most cases is not half of what it costs to raise a child.<P>My prayers are with you, I hope you find some relief somehow.<P>To Distressed, that was a great way of explaining what many of us go thru and I agree with what you said .<P>Dana<BR>

The part about it being potentially passed down scares me.<P>The kids counselor, who has met with my H individually and with the two oldest kids is worried about it as well. She suggested that via the lawyer (I'm initiating D) that I request psyhological testing.... stating that It is important to know his psychological history, as well as physical... for potential future problems with the kids.<P>My H is seeing a psychologist and has been for a year, but kid's counselor thinks he needs a psychiatrist and most likely meds...for ? schizzotypical pD along with depression.<P>The problem with doing that is that he is unlikely to get real help. A lot of these personality disorders are very difficult to treat. Especially when the person can still function at work (though my H can only function with the OW doing all the work for him, which is really how she fits in anyway)...., get a paycheck, and lie.<P>ANd they always have their support cushion! Oh well.

Counseling for the children is essential. The one thing we can't do as the responsible parent is run from the situation or have our own denial. I take my son for weekly counseling sessions and it helps enormously. We've even managed to get my husband in three times. He attempts to make changes modest changes to support our son (like less time w/ OW during the brief visitation), but is in turmoil the entire time he's there (my son reports - we haven't done a three-way session). He cries constantly. He should - he really hasn't processed any of this yet.

Distressed - I second it. Wonderful post! I also agree that some of the personality traits were there during the marriage, just masked by the marriage. In my case, my ex was a lot like a kid. Did things if you asked them too because they wanted to please you. If I asked him to take the kids to the park, he did. If I asked him to help with the laundry, he did. Never did he think of doing anything without being asked. Heck, he didn't even decide when he needed a haircut. I'd notice and make the appointment. It was a total parent child relationship and as long as it went that way he was happy in the marriage and he was there for the kids because he was told what to do with them and for them. Now, he spends no time with them during his visitation. Daughter plays with the neighbor and son plays with his girlfriends boy. They are existing in his home. His girlfriend sets all of the ground rules for her kids and his and no decision is made by him. It wasn't like he's changed into this simple mind, he always was that way it's just that when we were married I had his best interest and the kids best interest at heart so life was different for him and the kids. Has the relationship between him and the kids suffered? Absolutely. They too love him and enjoy their visits but they are afraid to talk to him on a personal basis. When he is asked a question he's not allowed to answer and they have to go through the girlfriend. So, their father exists but he doesn't father. Anyhow, interesting and wonderful post of yours.

Everyone's replies are helpful. I'd like to get an opinion because I am faced with a decision that will take me and the kids pretty far from their Dad. I've struggled with it and should probably start my own post, but all on this one seem to be in similar situations, so your thoughts would be appreciated.<P>After all of this began with my H, I began to regroup too. I went back to school after 13 years of being a SAHM (mutually agreed upon). My H has "this" pattern with jobs also, and this is the third location we have moved...this being his 4th job change in those 13 years. In fact, just prior to the "bomb" he was searching again for a different job or location. I balked this time due to wanting to stay where the kids were happy in school.<P>This move put us very far from any family, though my family consists of one brother. With the A with his assistant, my social life and that of the kids was taken away. We can't go into his office. All the events we went to were office staff and his work community...which is now shut off from us. OW is getting a D, but has 2 kids from that marraige and OW and H now have a son (2 months), that at this point only OUR children do not know about.<P>They do not live together....H is very dependent on her for work...which is what is giving him his only "buzz" right now. When asked...H says he doesn't know what he is going to do. My feeling is that when both of us are D...they will fall together..because it is easier and my H is unwilling to give her up at work.<P>She has her own problems (obviously) that I won't go into, and has taken it upon herself to create their reality, which I have to assume will continue.<P>Anyway...this is a very small, family oriented, christian town. Schools are not great near by. I am in the position to sell my house, move back to my home town which is about a 8-9 hour drive from here, return to school there and have the networking of my former friends and colleagues...as well as have access to better schools... closer to extended family (mostly his) etc. I also have a better chance at starting a new life at age 44...which is something I didn't want to do, but H has made it clear he is going to do what he wants.<P>Some people, mostly MIL say I should stay no matter what...this is my cross to bear. H says I am doing it to be spiteful. I've waited for over a year. I have no clue what he and OW are going to do...but my kids don't even know why he left yet. I've had to deal with so much of their heartache here...already..He has dealt with none of it. I can't even imagine how they will react when all the details come out.<P>I realize I am giving him an easy out..IF I leave he can keep pretending...but the kids and I have a chance to start fresh and crreate new memories also.<P>My H has the financial ability to fly to see them often. I told him he could get an apt..and have it be their home when he visits. I will help get them to him at a mid-point meeting place...(which is his mom's).. He only seems to want to take them places now anyway (Disney DaD).<P>I don't think I am running away. I feel very detached and have accepted his "changes". But, do you suppose it might be better to put Mom(me) in a place where she can provide the kind of life she wants for she and the kids??<P>Anyway.. things are all seeming to fall into place re: moving anyway. I just wanted to get ideas from those who seem to be in similar situations re: the parenting, or lack of, and denial of the WS. Thanks.<P>Also, I haven't even slammed the door. He knows it's open slightly, but he knows what he has to do to get in.

Hi Tootrusting,<P> I've looked for your posts and have thought about you repeatedly. What a living hell you are in .<P>I say, move, and make a better life for yourself. We also moved to a very small town, where everyone knows everyone.We moved because of the A and I gave up my life in my previous town . Even though we are together it is NOT fun.....I will be out of here in a second if I find out H is cheating again.....Enough is enough....it is time to do what's best for YOU and the KIDS...<P>I think that's awful that your mother in law thinks this is your cross to bear........having your H's relationship and now child rubbed in your face is enough of a cross to bear.<P>LU

Tootrusting:<P>As always, the decision is about what is best for the children in totality. What you're weighing is the impact of the benefits of the move on your ability as a parent (which includes your mental and financial state) versus the loss of involvement realized through lesser interaction with their father. Frankly, if it isn't lesser interaction, but just more inconvenient or expensive interaction that he can afford (the flights), there isn't even a trade-off that I can see.<P>The key factor to me is the degree of involvement/value of the relationship between the children and their father. It has absolutely nothing to do with his (abhorrent) behavior as a spouse or his current relationship with the OW.<P>If he is as miserable parent as you described (and I'd bet big bucks based on what he's done to the marriage, he truly is one, as are all the unrepentent runaway infidels on this thread), there is absolutely no reason to stay put. Move, rebuild your life, and be the best possible parent and role model for your children. Don't feel any guilt about it either. You are truly doing what is best for your children.

Distressed,<P>My H went right from our house to hers, and right from depending on me to make most of the decisions about children etc to having her make his decisions for him. I think he has always been fearful of antagonizing whomever he was dependent upon.<P>tootrusting,<P>I also agree that if you want to move, you should go ahead and do so. In their current state, they aren't doing the kids any good anyhow, and often times are doing them a great deal of harm.<P>BonnieSept,<P>It is interesting that your kids' father won't answer questions, and make them go through the OW. In my case, he sometimes promises the kids things, or tells me he is going to do something, then backs out when the OW overrides his decision.<P>Dana,<P>It is so much easier financially for the non-custodial parent, because legally, their maintenance comes first. It does not matter that almost all custodial parents would starve before they let their kids go hungry. I am certain my H would have felt that way when he was living here too. All that changes as soon as they leave for an OW.<P>WIFTT,<P>I worry about some of my kids being subject to depression, especially since my son is so much like his father (more so far, in positive ways, thank goodness). <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited March 15, 2001).]

Distressed, thanks for your reply. I have been agonizing over my decisions lately. I've come to the conclusion that I can't keep allowing him to bully us into his definition of our lives anymore.<P>I feel sorry that he finds himself in this position, however, I feel like I've made peace with it all.<P>I just don't want to be selfish in my direction, even though he is being selfish in his.<P>In his current state (jr.high school mentality) he is just incapable to really be a "real" Dad. Plus, based on his track record, I can't bank on him NOT changing again. And here I would be with kids really entrenched in school....(as they approach the "teens" and high school) while he may move if this new situation doesn't bring him the happiness he seems to think it will.<P>Nellie, yes, the influence of their dysfunction is not always good for the kids. And I am afraid It will become for me as it has become for the many here on this board. The OP "in charge" because the dependent WS won't rock the "supply" boat.<P>Thanks