<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Galatea:<BR><B>I re-reading your postings, you seem to really be wanting this DONE. I hear you wanting the opportunity for the *silver lining* with your new GF to come to fruition and actually, if I may here, I think what is truly *between the lines* is the fear of losing your future with the GF due to all of this.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, that's a big factor. <P>1. If I can't deal with this stuff, I'm not palpably <I>over</I> XW, and it also blocks progress with GF to do some things--for various reasons it hampers some things she wants to do entrepreneurially. <P>2. If I can't deal with this stuff, XW isn't palpably <I>over</I> me. If she <I>were</I>, this would likely be quick and painless.<P>3. If I can't deal with this stuff, what the hell <I>can</I> I deal with? I would find it terribly depressing to have shrunk from fighting for the interests closest to me. Nobody should <I>ever</I> do that. Everytime you do, I think you <I>die</I> a little. <P>4. In terms of putting the last shovelful on top of the old marriage, what better way than a polite introduction at a <I>chance</I> meeting? And what would have been worse than slinking off, frightened at the presence of a 5'3" arthritic woman? (well, I <I>have</I> been hit, kicked, and had my two closest friends grabbed and twisted [thankfully through thick bluejeans]--my bad? Once long ago I purposefully grabbed an ankle I knew to be inflamed, and on another more recent occasion I took her for a ride in the car she didn't want to take--so that I could chew her out for <I>her</I> part in our marital disintegration). <p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited March 19, 2001).]

<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>"Ralph Waldo Emerson, the famous nineteenth-century poet and essayist, was out one day trying to get a calf into the barn. "But he made the common mistake of thinking only of what he wanted: Emerson pushed and his son pulled.. But the calf stiffened his legs and stubbornly refused to leave the pasture. <P>"The Irish housemaid saw their predicament. She couldn't write essays and books; but on this occasion at least, she had more horse sense, or calf sense, than Emerson. She put her maternal finger in the calf's mouth, and let the calf suck her finger as she gently led him into the barn."1 <P>The lesson is simple but profound: The best way to influence others is by considering their desires, not just your own. <P>1Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1936), p. (Ralph Waldo Emerson) 1.027<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>XW <I>won't be</I> sucking on my finger any time soon, but can anybody provide any insight into what <I>she</I> might want? If I knew, maybe I could provide it without violating anyone's boundaries.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited March 19, 2001).]

RWD,<P>No contradiction there. He doesn't "love" his XW, and he doesn't "love" his GF. I did say he still has "feelings" for the XW. Not the same as love, at least in my book. This is all about what makes Sisyphus happy. Having live-in f**k buddy makes him happy while he sorts out his problems. However, they are both adults, and she has been warned. Oh well. I guess some people think that you are not using someone as long as you warn them first. I suppose that does serve the purpose of removing any responsibility from the original person and toss it over to the other person.<P>I don't see any contradiction at all.

Sisyphus,<P>I'm still a bit puzzled. <P>If you are really only focusing on the legal issues with your W (car titles and what-not), why not call a lawyer and have him/her take care of it. Pure and simple. Costs you money but saves the nerves.<P>Yet I sense that you are still worrying too much about your XW's motives, thoughts, and actions, and it is causing you grief. <P>So I think that there is more to this than you just trying to get the legal/practical issues resolved. And that's why I said that you seem to have some unresolved emotional stuff with your XW. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but I still say that your GF is getting caught in the crossfire.<P>I do sympathize with your ordeal, and I understand that you are trying to do the right thing. I don't pass judgement on whether or not you are really emotionally ready for a new GF, but it sure seems like you've moved on without having cleared all the skeletons out of the closet first.<P>If there is no emotional baggage left with the XW, why not have a professional simply take care of the mess?<P>I can hear the pain in your posts, but I think that this pain is to a large extent self inflicted. <P>I feel like I'm bashing you, and I'm not trying to do that. You have been a very thoughtful and thought provoking poster, and I always enjoy your contributions. It's just that in this post I see you doing exactly what you tell others not to do...<P>I hope you can put this incident behind you and go forward. I really don't see any bad behavior from your W in this whole incident...<P>AGG

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>This is all about what makes Sisyphus happy.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, no it never was, else I wouldn't have let XW make me leave FlaDOT in Tallahassee to join her in Denver and get a tax degree while she did an internship; I would never have left the firm I started working for in Denver to come back to Florida and work for a jerk while she got her dream job, there would have been no move to an overpriced house (<I>OK</I> so it wasn't <I>overpriced</I>, just uncomfortably priced--we <I>did</I> make out like <I>bandits</I> when it sold--and admittedly, she picked it with just that eventuality pre-calculated), no new Saab convertible for her, no month-long solo trip for her to the <I>Dead Sea</I> for her psoriasis, no putting up with the brothers who could go from zero to screaming bloody murder at each other in 10 seconds--over something <I>insignificant</I> every time, no singlehandedly doing a multiple-coat elastomer job on 3,000 sf. of the hottest roof in the western hemisphere, no constantly rehooking her Mazda's automatic seatbelt when she undid it so that on that -7 degree day in Denver, when she broadsided a Forerunner, it was there to catch her rather than her winding up in the hospital, no support while she was in grad school, or on the internship, or foundering at her new dream job; nor would there be letting her brother live with us the last year of our marriage--raging loudly in the next room whenever a day trade was poorly executed or otherwise went against him, no support when a fellow grad student was making her life miserable, no forgiveness for her EA with another grad student, no tea and toast in bed for her virtually every morning of the marriage--even the last few days before we separated for good, no cooking (did she <I>cook</I>? only if it was in a cellophane-covered black plastic tub that went in the microwave), no keeping the angry cops at the restaurant from taking her father (and probably <I>her</I> and <I>her mother too</I>) off to <B>jail</B>, no bringing her her favorite dish from the restaurant she had been <I>banned</I> from, no taking care of her dog, no laundry (legitimate <I>pain</I> kept her from doing it), no picking up her prescriptions, retrieving them for her when she needed them from another place in the house, or sympathizing when she had trouble swallowing or injecting them; no independent research on her health conditions, no staying with her at the office when she had to work late, no ultraviolet lightbooth, no tolerance for her cortisone shot-induced rages, no helping her on and off with clothes when her shoulders were too painful for her to do it herself, no struggling valiantly to save the marriage, and I could go on, but what's the point? It's over. And one of the very last things XW said to me at the Gottman seminar was that I needed to learn to expect and demand more and better from life.<P>And now it <B>is</B> <I>high time</I> for <I>whatever</I> makes me (and new GF) happy.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited March 19, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AGoodGuy:<BR><B>If there is no emotional baggage left with the XW, why not have a professional simply take care of the mess?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That would be <I>me</I>, and <I>I'm</I> doing <I>my</I> part--and then some. The ball is in her lawyer's court...<P>

Well Sis,<P>First of all, I think you certainly can date and still have feelings for your ex. It isn't the best situation, but it can, and does happen. I wrote a thread about a week ago where I talked about the new man in my life. I could go on and on about why I thought it was *right* for me, how I never meant to hurt anyone, how I still had a kind of love for my ex but it would never work out (as far as I could tell after fighting like hell to save the marriage for 18 months)... I could say all that, and there would always be those who would think I was wrong -- and in fact, there were. My only point in saying this is that I am in **no position** to judge your motives in your new relationship. <P>I have to live in my skin and you have to live in yours. <P>I asked you earlier why you stirred up the hornets nest. I ask you again. All it seems to do is cause pain to you, your GF, and your ex. You have written on numerous occasions about how you had small victories with her lawyer, esp. regarding the email issue. Are the small victories worth all the stress? I wouldn't think so.<P>Take care, Sis.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by new_beginning:<BR><B>I asked you earlier why you stirred up the hornets nest. I ask you again. All it seems to do is cause pain to you, your GF, and your ex. Are the small victories worth all the stress? I wouldn't think so.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, when somebody might have leverage over you, it's best to do whatever you can to <I>blunt</I> it. And while all you want is peace, I want tangible things of value that allow me to have peace. And after a long wait, I started out to get them peacefully. War is just diplomacy carried on by other means. We're not there yet, but the diplomacy is starting to get <I>heated</I>. So be it.<P><BR>

Sisyphus,<P>The legitimate effort you put into your marriage does not justify using another person after your divorce. If you feel so bad about what your ex did to you, why would you want to do that to someone else? You don't deserve "whatever" at someone else's expense, but I'm sure you don't see it that way. Again, I can't say I feel ALL that sorry for your GF. I'm sure she's using you just as much as you are using her. You "warned" her, so I guess your conscience is clean.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>The legitimate effort you put into your marriage does not justify using another person after your divorce. If you feel so bad about what your ex did to you, why would you want to do that to someone else? You don't deserve "whatever" at someone else's expense, but I'm sure you don't see it that way. Again, I can't say I feel ALL that sorry for your GF. I'm sure she's using you just as much as you are using her. You "warned" her, so I guess your conscience is clean.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I wasn't going to respond to this, but just briefly, what makes you think I am <I>doing that</I> to new GF? And that there is something at <I>her expense</I>? Or that what we're doing is <I>using</I> each other? <P>We thought this post was so silly we did an impromptu duet of Bob Seger's <I>Nightmoves</I>. Even though I can't sing worth ...

I'm not familiar with that song. People like you scare me. I'm not the only one on this thread who have wondered if the best interests of your GF is anywhere in your brain.<P>There is a particular kind of wasp that parasitizes caterpillars. They inject the caterpillar with it's eggs. The eggs hatch and eat the caterpillar from the inside out. When nothing is left but a wasted shell, the baby wasps emerge, mate, and find another host. In your case, though, I'm not quite sure whom is the wasp and whom is the caterpillar.

If anyone can make any sense of that last post, I invite them to do so.

Sis -<P>I have a feeling no-one could answer that for you! <P>As to TS's remark, yes, concerns for your current GF arise, but not because you are using her. More in the hope that you are not going to hurt her. On the other hand, what are you supposed to do? Sit back and not get involved with someone? I have a feeling that you were very open with your current GF at the beginning and currently are as well. Good luck my friend. <P>By the way, as I recall, Sisyphus was doomed to roll a boulder eternally, is this the boulder of choice? Dealing with the XW and the final issues? I hope for your GF's sake it is not. <P>Galatea<P>------------------<BR>The only way out is to go through<BR>- Robert Frost

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>If anyone can make any sense of that last post, I invite them to do so.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Really, Sisyphus, it's quite obvious! The hermaphroditic urgencies of anaphylaxis quantize subliminal reactions into ennervation. See?<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> Really, Sisyphus, it's quite obvious! The hermaphroditic urgencies of anaphylaxis quantize subliminal reactions into ennervation. See?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Its quite obvious to me as well Gnome. I just wasnt fast enough to whip out my theasaurous and find a more eloquent way to say...ummmmmm....whatever it is you said.<P> <P><p>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited March 20, 2001).]

Although <B>Student </B>doesn't need any help defending herself, and I am not particularly interested in getting in the middle of a disagreement, I find myself drawn to this thread... the last bit of banter is interesting, to say the least. <P><B>Sisyphus</B>, you ask:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If anyone can make any sense of that last post, I invite them to do so.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay, I'll bite. <B>I have put an * next to what I think Student means.</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm not familiar with that song. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>*Student isn't familiar with that song</B><P>Although I am familiar with that song, I wondered what it had to do with what The Student said. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>People like you scare me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>*Student is afraid of people like you.</B><P>You don't scare me as much as confuse me. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm not the only one on this thread who have wondered if the best interests of your GF is anywhere in your brain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>*Student was not the only one who was concerned with your GF's best interests.</B><P>Although I clearly told you that I am in no place to judge you, I was concerned with your stirring the hornets nest... partially because it must "hurt" your spirit and that of your GF.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> There is a particular kind of wasp that parasitizes caterpillars. They inject the caterpillar with it's eggs. The eggs hatch and eat the caterpillar from the inside out. When nothing is left but a wasted shell, the baby wasps emerge, mate, and find another host. In your case, though, I'm not quite sure whom is the wasp and whom is the caterpillar. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>[<B>*Student is using an analogy concerning an insect to describe what she sees in your situation. In this example, the wasp lays an egg inside the caterpillar. The eggs hatch inside the caterpillar and eat it until it's "hollow"... this is nature, and it is cruel. Student wonders if you are the injector, or the injectee.</B> <P>For my part, I don't see you as either one. Rather, I see you as a very intelligent man who is much more damaged by his prior relationship than he cares to let on. <P><B>**Note: I tried to inject a bit of humour here... there needs to be some... </B><P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 20, 2001).]

NB - you are too fun! <P>and Sis, I think NB has a point there: <P>*For my part, I don't see you as either one. Rather, I see you as a very intelligent man who is much more damaged by his prior relationship than he cares to let on*<P>What does the new GF (or you for that matter) think this relationship is going with you still having so many issues both real and in your mind to deal with in regards to your XW? I hope for both of your sakes you are not <BR>*Building castles way up high" (just the two of us.. sing the song Sis! Let's hear that voice!)<P><BR>------------------<BR>The only way out is to go through<BR>- Robert Frost<p>[This message has been edited by Galatea (edited March 20, 2001).]

Well, I am a W.A.S.P. But I leave paralyzing and egg-laying to the bugs.

Sis,<P>From my experiences from dealing with my x and even prior to that when we were separated, every time I tried to handle "stuff" on my own, it went right into the crapper, as evidenced by my incident last week.<P>My x did change her work day so she and not om/h will be watching the kids, but at what cost? I severly damaged my chances of having any type of peaceful relationship with my x, whom I will have to deal with for the rest of my life because of my kids and also I damaged my relationship with my son.<P>While om/h is at least a home wrecker and poor role model for my children, their mother is the same thing and I don't have a problem with them seeing her. As far as I know, om/h isn't a molester. So it is my emotional problem that is getting in way of a somewhat peaceful relationship with x. That is all I am looking for.<P>If I could only step back and allow things to happen instead of forcing them, I thing I would have less problems. <P>What I am suggesting is to turn your concerns, title, $$$$, over to another lawyer, let him work on them. Then PLan B your x and work on your relationship with your gf.<P>Bob<BR>

Well, here's a little progress. After a steady <I>drip, drip, drip</I> of one-liners asking about the title, I sent the following:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><XWAttorney>,<P><BR>Back in the beginning of December, your client expressed satisfaction with the 1040 I<BR>had prepared. <P>Per your request, I have prepared and provided another one, with changes.<P>I have yet to receive it back, or any of the items I requested; however, I have been providing<BR>items right along.<P>Are you still representing her?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I also attached a friendly e-mail of hers (from early-December), the key excerpt is here: <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hi. I hope this reaches you. The IRS thing is cool. Sorry I haven't sent it in earlier. I had looked at the stuff differently. However, the way you are handling it is fine with me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Then I waited a few hours and called her attorney. He said the signed title and some other info I needed were going out to me in the mail today. <P>Apparently, he <I>can</I> control his client, he just needs a little fire lit under him now and then...