About a month ago H dropped the bomb. Think we should divorce so I don't end up hurting you by having another A. First A has been over 4 years. He says that I am the best wife and mother and that he couldn't have asked for better but he has changed. He told his mom that he is currently looking for a new person (ouch!!!). He also told his mom that I would not go to counselling, so so wrong. He won't go. He told me last night what can anyone tell me that I don't already know about myself. My situation is so out of my control. I am devistated. I just have such a hard time accepting all of this. We have been married 11 years. <P>H seems to be the Romantic type that Pittman describes in his books. He is in love with being in love but once reality sets in they leave. He told me that he doesn't feel that intense passion that he once had for me and that he thinks that there is someone out there that can give him that for evermore. I feel that ultimatly he will not find happiness and in the process is crushing me and hurting our children. The pain of losing him is overwhelming at times. I never thought that I would be without him. After making it through the first affair I thought we were well on our way. He never once indicated disatisfaction to me. <P>Another thing that hurts so much is that I now realize that he has talked to so many other people about divorcing me. People who don't even know me. Asking them what is the best way to do it. That hurts sooooo much.<P>I should be angry but I just feel lost, empty, broken and ashamed. I so much wanted to avoid being here. When I found MB I was so excited thinking that we could make this work. But H had already removed himself so far by the time he let me know that I had no chance. How did I not see the signs. Well he works 5 days a week away from home and when he was home was very at ease and happy. <P>I now turn to you all for support. I have many friends here but none have been in my situation. <P>Thanks for listening. <P>

If he's lying to his mother, that's where your leverage is. Either he can go with you to counseling, or she can hear your side of the story with no punches pulled. Blackmail is better than letting the problem continue.

I don't have any advice for you but I do offer some comfort. When my STBXW dropped the BOMB on me I thought everything was going great. Looking back now I see the signs that I should have saw then. Biggest problem is communication. Hope the Lord grants you the strength to walk down whatever path your life leads to.<P>Love, Bill

Hi,<P>I was with my ex 11 years, and dealt with 2 betrayals. I too thought we were well on our way. When he left on xmas day, I had no clue, but in hindsight, missed some red flags. <P>Anyhow, all of the feelings you have now, I have felt and been through . It hurts like crazy and you feel hopeless.<P>I haven't made the best decisions myself at times, but time will help and for now, take things one day at a time. I'd also say if your familiar with the Harley Principles, to start Plan A. <P>Plan A, would mean no Lovebusting, which talking to his mom, I think would be a LB, but that is your choice to make. <P>All love changes. It is intense in the beginning and as you grow, your life grows and your lives become full of other things, like kids, a house, car payments, careers, you have less time than you should to focus on the relationship. Also, I don't know anyone who has been together years and years, that is feeling this intense feeling much past 6 months to a few years. Thats just how love is. It doesn't mean its bad, its that you grow.<P>I think more men then women tend to "want more" and mistake that intense feeling for something they need to be fulfilled. It would be great if we felt that all the time, but it doesn't last.<P>Good luck, I know you'll find peace here. Dana<BR>

Hi Hopeless,<P> I am so sorry for what you are going through...my H is also the classic romantic ....we are together but I DO worry about the future.<P>I would place a bet that your H is already in an affair, at least an emotional one.....to me all signs point to it.....<P>NO advice, maybe you could talk to Steve Harley, he really helped me......LU

There is no planA to be done. How can you plan A when he won't talk and only says that you have done nothing wrong and that it is all him. I have asked him what I can do but he responds nothing. He has made it clear in no uncertain terms that it is over. When he next comes home we are to sit down and talk about a financial arrangement. When we spoke last night I asked him not to call home anymore and that kids would call him. He was moving in that direction anyway calling home less frequently. I need to protect myself now. Contact with him is too painful. He knows that I want nothing more than to make this marriage work. I have never once raised my voice, belittled him or made him fell unwelcome over the past few weeks but there comes a time when one must let go and that time is here for me as awful as that is for me to say.<P>I called his mother only after I knew for certrain that there was nothing more to be done on my part. My only reason for calling her was to let her know that I never gave up on H. She thinks that he is doing the wrong thing and that he needs therapy to deal with his problems. He will lose some face with his family as they all like me a great deal. But blood is thicker than water. He also told his mom that this whole thing was all him and that I was not to be held responsible in anyway.<P>As for looking back and seeing the signs, of course, hind sight is 20/20 but they were very subtle. <P>I wish there was some way to stop this. I feel like divorce is like a train that pulls out of a station moving slowly at first but then gathering speed quickly and I can either choose to stand in it's path and get ripped to shreds or climb aboard and get off at the other end and make the best of what awaits me their. I am choosing the latter.

LU,<P>Yes I am sure you are right. Meeting women while travelling has led to EA's I'm sure of that now. He also indicated to me that he still thought about OW from affair. I'm sure he will contact her to see if what they had was everything it seemed to be at the time. He being the romantic type feels the spark with someone else then begins the distancing from marriage. He even admitted to his mom that he was looking!!

I understand your pain very well, just like everyone here. That is why I come to MB, everybody can relate. You'll receive support, comfort, and great advise. Hang in there, and keep posting.<BR>Love, Petrie

Another thing that hurts is that he seems so indiffernt to it all. It is almost like he has no emotions. Is this the guilt? <P>At one point in our conversation last night I said I still can't beleive that you can leave your children. He said don't even go there or I will hang up the phone. Later I asked how often he would like to have the kids. He said he was thinking every other weekend. When I told his mom her reply was stunned silence. Think she is so dissapointed with him at this time. Don't think she realised how selfish he has truely become.<P>I know some of you think that calling MIL was a big LB but I felt I had nothing to lose at this point. She was actually very thankful that I called as she had been wondering what was going on. Last call from H was that if things were to work between us he would have to get a job here and not travel. He hadn't bothered to tell her that he had decided against that and wanted to continue with the D and his pursuit of the perfect love match!! Besides she lives on the other side of the world and is someone I can call in the middle of the night when sleep does not come and I feel the need to talk. The phone bill will be high but I guess a chat with her is no more expensive than a trip to the therapist!!<P><BR>

Hi Hopeless,<P> I don't think talking to MIL is a LB....I talked to my sister in law, I would've gone crazy without some support.<P> Has he filed yet? If you don't want a D don't file, but maybe you can get some legal advice to protect yourself and kids. They don't think clearly when they are this possessed.<P> He hasn't really lived life without you and the kids....what about Plan B? It really made a difference in my case.....Thinking of you....LU

No he has not filed yet. He wants to get together and get it all down on paper. Leaving lawyers out of it. I have mixed feelings about it. I know what it takes financially for the kids and I to survive but I don't want to live that way. We have a comfortable lifestyle now. H seems very happy to give me what I want but the actual figure may cause him to change his mind. I gave up my career when we moved out here knowing that the move would allow me to be a stay at home mom. I also came to the marriage debt free and a Masters degree in hand. This allowed my H to get a college degree without loans and also my job bought our first house. I supported us then. So sad that none of this makes any difference. Now I will be expected to go back to work all because my H decided that being married was not for him!!!! ARGHH<P>I guess I sort of started Plan B last night by asking him not to contact me by phone anymore. Guess I should get my side down on paper by writing a plan B letter and also let him know that him staying here at the house is no longer an option when he is in town. <P>Thanks for the kind words. This has been a difficult morning for me.

{{{{{{{HopelessinAZ}}}}}}}<P>I wish that I had some words of wisdom, or comfort for you. I know exactly where you are coming from. My STBXW is currently move her stuff to a new home. She has told me that she will be filing for D as soon as custody arrangements are made for the kids. It is so sad to watch everything you ever hoped for vanish. Take care of yourself.<P>Griz<P>------------------<BR>Sometimes the hardest journeys in life are not the ones you embark on alone, but those that you choose to travel together.

Hi Hopeless,<P> Don't give up hope yet...(in spite of your name!). I think these romantic types just float along not really dealing or thinking about the realities of leaving , (the kids, the finances).<P>I think you should see a lawyer and make sure your ducks are in a row. If he wants to leave make sure you get an agreement in writing and legalized....They are not dealing with reality and you and the kids could be the ones to suffer. I got a separation agreement and had him sign it....it was a real wakeup call for my H. He also couldn't stand that I wouldn't talk to him (Plan B). <P>Now is the time to protect yourself and the kids....he may or may not come out of this soon but you need to be proactive......(((((((Hopeless ))))))) LU<p>[This message has been edited by Lu (edited March 21, 2001).]

How many of you have been able to remain "good friends" through this whole mess. H wants us to remain good friends. He hopes that I will be able to come to him for anything after the D. I told him that I felt this may be too much for me (can't imagine sitting around chatting about the new love of his life). <P>I want to remain civil but as for friends? I don't think my heart is that big. I know I should be a better person and maybe in the future I can be. I would never do anything that may hurt my children's relationship with thier father. I think he will eventually destroy that on his own as well. They won't fit into his new lifestyle very well. They will only serve to remind him of what he did and guilt is not tolerated and things that cause guilt are cast aside. <P>Thanks for the hug Griz.<P>

Lu,<P>I feel you are right about contacting a lawyer. This I feel intuitively and we all know to trust our intuitions!!<BR>H has threatened me that if I contact a lawyer it is on my own dime and he will not pay for it. Why he is so scared of me seeking any legal advice I don't know. <P>i have read some real horror stories on here about H failing to live up to promises made and I have all intentions of protecting myself and our children legally. <P>Has anyone successfully worked out a legal divorce without intervention of lawyers? Would you do it that way again if you had it to do over? Know H has spoken to several of his friends that are D and they are all pushing the on your own thing. But then again they are all NCP males who feel they have been taken by the XW.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HopelessinAZ:<BR><B>How many of you have been able to remain "good friends" through this whole mess. H wants us to remain good friends.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You <I>may</I> end up having to worry about a lot more than whether you can still be friends. I recommend getting everything down into a legal agreement as soon as possible.<P>When my wife left me, I heard a lot of the same stuff. I was the best husband, and we would always be good friends. Then she started telling people strange things like I wouldn't get counseling (which was interesting, since I was the one making the appointments for both myself and us) and that she had a restraining order against me. (She didn't). A few months later, she filed legal documents containing an astonishing array of fabrications and portraying me as a raging tyrant. Her claims were so outrageous that virtually anyone who knows her would find them to be unbelievable, even if they had never met me.<P>Right now, your husband is laying all the onus for your divorce on himself, but there is extreme psychological motivation for him to flip the other way.<BR>

Hopeless, I'd run, not walk, to a lawyer.<P>My H told me he wouldn't pay for my lawyer either. Guess what? Since I'm a stay at home mom with no income, in NJ the court generally will order the spouse with income to pay the other spouses legal fees. I have a motion going to court right now asking for my H to reimburse my 5k retainer.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HopelessinAZ:<BR><B>Has anyone successfully worked out a legal divorce without intervention of lawyers? Would you do it that way again if you had it to do over? Know H has spoken to several of his friends that are D and they are all pushing the on your own thing. But then again they are all NCP males who feel they have been taken by the XW.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can answer in the affirmative. I went through Arizona's "self-service" divorce procedure. My Ex wanted to make it as quick and painless as possible. We both agreed on which assets we would get, respectively. The difference for us was that there was NOTHING disputed. No child support, no alimony, nothing. She took her stuff and I took mine. <P>If you can get the papers filled out and filed in court quickly enough, you may be in a good situation. We got our division of property and financial assets spelled out pretty clearly, and once it was filed, that was it. I don't know your situation, but since AZ is a community property state, it HAS to be fair.<P>Although some folks here are suggesting you get a lawyer, I'd suggest looking at the alternative of a self-serve divorce. Fill ou the papers, file them, and three months and a 90 second hearing later you're done.<P> If you can pull it off, great. If not, be prepared to spend lots of time and money to get out of your marriage.<P>Many people get lawyers involved to "protect" their assets, and the lawyers wind up with the lion's share of the divorce settlement.<P><BR>

I have such mixed feelings on this issue. I really think that STBXH will be fair to me in settlement. I guess that I just want to make sure that I'm thinking of everything when I come up with a figure to give my STBXH. Don't want to find myself in a bind in 6 months. I know his thought process is that we will sit down and come up with these numbers then he will get a contract that pays him enough to give me what I have asked for and have plenty left over for him. <P>There is so much to think about and I don't really want to think about any of it!!! I dissolve into tears every time I have to start. <P>Can I sue him for damages caused by pain and suffering!!! HA

Hopeless, my situation is much different than yours, but my H said all the same things about love, about wanting to be friends, about not wanting lawyers involved, etc.<P>It sounds to me that perhaps your H is simply looking for the easiest way out for himself. It's in HIS best interest if you don't contact a lawyer - my big question in all of this is: Do you have kids??<P>Hopeless, there are many lawyers out there that offer a free initial consultation. Take advantage of that, and see several different lawyers. Explain your situation and ask what your options are. You'd be surprised what you will find out. I know my H told me all kinds of crazy stuff that I believed until I spoke with multiple lawyers who all laughed and then told me what my rights were.<P>At the very least, you NEED to understand the laws and your rights in your state. Then, armed with facts, you can decide if you want to sit down with your H and work out an agreement. But you don't have to settle for whatever he offers you. <P>I'm not urging you to go to court and fight him. I'm just saying that information is power. And you should not be giving up your rights without knowing exactly what you are doing - especially if you have children. <P>The fact of the matter is, your H will most likely have to pay for your lawyer, (if you have no income) whether he wants to or not. But as I said before, take advantage of the free consultations available - it won't cost you a dime to get informed. <P>I wanted my marriage too. I certainly am devastated to be here. But reality has to be dealt with, regardless of how much it sucks. Reality is, your H is now putting his energies elsewhere, certainly not into your welfare or your marriage. It's up to you to see that you and any kids are protected.<P>Good luck (((hugs)))<P><BR>