Hi all,<P>I was reading another post and came across this guy with what I would like to call 'some awesome' thoughts. Don't mean to plagiarize here so I would like to introduce the quote by: Father of 1 Husband of 0:<P>"Five steps of grieving process...<BR>Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance<P>You will move back and forth between them until you get to acceptance. You don't just move from one to the next. I'm on the tail end of the process, luckily. I've found that if I have thoughts of denial, anger, or bargaining, I wind right back up in depression. I'm clinging to acceptance as much as possible though I did go through a bad spell of depression when I was wore out from a week of the flu recently. I was away from my new routine for too long. I had to get back to the job that I absolutely love.<P>Here's the bottom line. You can do plan A (show him how good you can be). If that doesn't work do plan B (sever all contact with him). Read Dr. Harley's stuff, all of it. Plan B may be in order since he is so far in the fog. He hasn't started missing you yet and it will take that (and some trouble with the OW) to snap him out of the fog. (if he ever wakes up) [WARNING - this is too short a version to fully explain the dynamics of the situation] Get yourself (and him if possible) to a good counselor. Again, read all of Dr. Harley's stuff. Start with "Surviving an Affair". (explains Plan A and Plan B) I think you will be amazed at how close Dr. Harley gets things. Usually you can substitute you and your spouse's names into the stories and perfectly describe your situation. It's spooky.<P>Your husband will reap what he sows... A strong relationship foundation cannot be built on lies, deceit, secrets, and mistrust.<P>Oh, about the depression. You will have bad spells that will get less bad over time. They will also get farther apart. They will not go away overnight. Everytime you have a spell, consider it progress. Let it out so that you can get to feeling normal again. You are feeling jagged as part of you has been ripped away. You will heal in time. Get yourself a new routine and keep busy. If you're busy having fun, then you don't have time to feel bad.<P>Good Luck<P>Been there, done that (still doing it some), getting better every day "<P><BR>End of quote.<P>I really need to learn how to do the fancy quote stuff I see all the rest of you do. Anyway, his words really struck me. Unfortnately, I forgot where I read his post until I read it again this morning and I misquoted him on another post and said there were 4 steps. So as not to mislead others, I have put his quote here. <P>I would like to take the opportunity to thank <BR>MR. Father of 1. Your words truly helped me get through this weekend. It has been very trying for me (my other posts in this site will explain some of the details). <P>You have allowed me to revisit my current status and set goals for where I want to be. I now look forward to being in the acceptance stage so that I can go on with my life. Whether my H is a married part of that new life or I must go on alone, I know that is where I need to be. <P>L.<BR>ps: I am also going to put a copy of this on the General QuestionsII site. <P> <BR>

The two icons next to the sunglasses help you learn how to do the fancy stuff...

<BR>Thanks. I will try it next time.<P>L.

Orchid,<P>I'm glad it helped, but I can not take credit for creating it. I did teach it for years in my previous job (seems like another life now, changed careers). It comes from Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's legendary work "On Death and Dying". It is applicable to any serious loss. It's funny that I didn't use it to help myself until now. I was recently reminded of it when I went to the mandatory parenting class that is required in my county for people divorcing. Good class, but it felt like four hours of drivers ed.<P>Anyway, I'm glad it helped and now that you know where it comes from, you can look it up.<p>[This message has been edited by father of 1, husband of 0 (edited March 27, 2001).]

L,<P>I typed a long reply out to this yesterday and my PC crashed. I'm going to try it again. <P>Since you liked the previous steps, here are some steps taken from a book called "rebuilding when your relationship ends".<P>This is a book by Dr. Bruce Fisher. This book has been called a bible for those going thru divorce. In it, he defines the different levels you go thru when grieving for your marriage/divorce.<P>These steps are not necessarily followed in exact order. You can skip one. Feel it later in the path, go backwards, forwards, and in the end, when you have experienced them all, you have gone thru all the emotions that are needed to move on in a healthy direction one day. <P>Here are "The Rebuilding Blocks" from the moment you find your marriage is over, lost your spouse, until he feels you are ready for a healthy relationship.<P>Denial, Fear, Adaption, Loneliness, Friendship, Guilt/Rejection, Grief, Anger, Letting Go, Self Worth, Transition, Openness, Love, Trust, Relatedness, Sexuality, Singleness, Purpose, and Freedom.<P>This is the 19 step process of adjustment to the loss of a love. <P>Dana<BR>

Dear Fo1Ho0 & Dana,<P>Thank your so very much for your responses. I will look up the information you provided. I do need to have more support on this matter. WS is being very difficult in financial obligations (not even the families just his) and due to the no-fault laws in the beautiful state of California (thanks to women who wanted equality), all his self induced debts now get to be mine, if he does not pay. So while I can safely manage our family's budget, I can not also float his. This is beginning to sink me and WS walked out on a mediation meeting last night. His options are almost nil, move to his mother's, live on the street or move with OW. H will not reconcile with me so we are not an option for him at this time. <P>Anyway, the stress is growing and I don't want to lose this battle. I find myself struggling and feeling periods of depression. I have put that on another post. <P>Your wise words have been well taken and I will endeavor to put them to use. Thanks for helping all of out here in MB land. <P>Sincerely,<BR>L.

Orchid,<P>I know your pain. I also have a 4 yr. old daughter and I'm a man fighting to get primary custody. Can we all repeat it together... "That's Hard to Do" <P>I know you are tired. I know you don't have an OP to lean on. Get on anti-depressants if you just can not bear it. You must get your head clear. You must be stronger now than ever. You must fight with all your might for your WS will keep kicking you if you let him. (I specifically worded it WS and NOT husband because, as you know, he has turned into an entirely different person) I don't know if you have any kids but that also makes it harder. Either fight now or keep getting beat up on (figuratively speaking) forever. A lot of fighting now (to get things the way you want them, not in retribution) will save you a lot of grief later.<P>Here's another outstanding book for you to read and learn from. "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James C. Dobson. You should be able to easily find it in a Christian bookstore. I'm not a Christian, but his book is still solid.<P>It might be time to Plan B your WS. It will drive them crazy, but not immediately. (goes along with "Love Must be Tough")<P>Always good people here if you need us.<P>Kevin

Dear Kevin,<P>Thanks for the encouragement. I have prayed for a clear mind and calm heart and for most of the time have been able to have both. There are just times when I feel so much stress. But I am not alone, there has been so much support that I need to be grateful for and I am. <P>I will look at what you have suggested. I think I have a lot of reading to do. I still have the 3 Harley books that I purchased last month. I am half way through the Surviving an Affair book. <P>Sometimes I look at my son (6 years old) and want him to have a 'good father' like I had. Someone who will give him the care & love that he deserves. You know, my son asked my Sunday, "if dad won't come back, can we get another dad? I really would prefer my real dad but if he does not want us, it is ok for you to get me another dad." Is that sad or what? I cried. I know he was trying to comfort me but I can't believe, this little boy has more common sense than his 38 year old father. Joel even said that he would give up all his toys if that is what it took for his dad to come home. <P>Wow. H won't even give up his cell phone to make sure his son's day care is being paid for. Guess who the more giving person is in this family? I am proud of my son. <P>I guess I just need a kick in the proverbial pants to keep going every so often. I am a giver by trade and often overlook my needs. However, those needs are screaming right now and I must pay attention to them because no one (like a husband) is helping me right now. <P>Well, thanks for setting me straight again. You are so kind to take time to help me. <P>Mahalo,<BR>L.<P><BR>

Orchid,<P>I know you may not see it, given all that's going on, but your son is in the bargaining stage right now. Why do I say this? He talks about about getting a new dad because he knows you are hurt. Especially telling is the bit about giving up all his toys. He's bargaining. Can you see it now? He's going through the process too. All normal. At least he's not stuck in denial which some people do. Keep aware that depression is next. Granted, people move back and forth through the different stages, but depression is right around the corner. The good news about the depression stage is that acceptance comes next. <P>Tell your son, repeatedly if necessary, that there is nothing that he did wrong to cause the situation and there is nothing he can do to fix it. Thank him for being the good boy he is. Most importantly, let him be the kid he is. It's hard enough for adults to handle this. Keep his life as normal as possible. It was tough being a kid, right?<P>If there is one thing that I learned in that divorce/parenting class is that you must take care of yourself in order to take care of your kids. Treat yourself to the best so that you can be the strong, caring person that you know you are.<P>Don't listen to that evil twin of your husband if he tries to blame you. The only reason he does it is that he feels guilty for doing what he's doing. I now take comfort when my STBX WS wife blames me, for I know that she's feeling guilty. She's really off into psycho land.<P>Ever forward...<P>Kevin

Kevin,<P>Thanks for pointing this out. Joel & I talk a lot. I do not ask how he feels about his dad too much. He usually does not offer his opinin unless I ask. He has volunteered about 3 times by casually asking questions. But when I do ask how he is feeling or does he have any thoughts questions about his dad or myself, then he does come up with a slew of them. He even decided on his own to write a letter to his dad asking 2 direct questions and 2 statements. This little guy is sure direct with his thoughts. Not as wordy as his mom. <P>During our other conversations, I have shown my love for him and reinforced his father's love for him. Unfortunately, H is not an attentive man. He does not give much attention to his son. I grew up in a very loving family and H does not come near to the attention and love my father lavished upon us with his time and attention to things we were interested in. Therefore, Joel is not really missing his dad other than the fact that dad does not come home at night. Joel is such a good little boy. I hurt to think that he can not benefit from a loving father. I know that when he sees other fathers, he wishes he had one also. In fact when his dad first said he was moving out, the first words out of Joel's mouth was, how come my counsin's have a dad and I don't get to have one anymore? Then he cried. H saw this but it was not enough to phase him. How sad. I have posted this before and it breaks my heart everytime I recount it. <P><BR>Even tucking him in bed, reading a story, saying his prayers with him was a chore for H. H would either fall asleep or say he was too busy. The hurtful piece is that sometimes (now that I think back) H was on the computer probably with OW and chose to have that time with her than his son. I know he spent phone time with her instead of his son. Go figure. Oh, that makes me angry at H. <P>I do have some concerns about the depression period you spoke about. I know you said you have a young one, what type of depression did your little one go through? I would appreciate some insight on this from anyone since I have not really read up on how to handle the children. <P>Keeping my son's life as normal as possible or even keeping any type of normalancy in our lives has been difficult. We do get out some and do fun things, but not as much as I would like or know he needs. Even though I was doing most of the working and running around for the family, now I have no choice but to be the only one and sometimes that is a hard burden to carry even in thought. Your points about keeping things normal is well taken.<P>I think my son has been a bit sensitive lately, I know he cries easier and jumps if he thinks some one is being mean. Joel saw his dad smash H's laptop and throw me to <BR>the ground. That left a major impression in his mind that I am trying to work through. <P>Blaming the spouse for everything wrong with them seems to be H's way of life for now. I can't walk into the store right, can't talk right, can't stand right. Boy, I must be one messed up person not fit to go out in public. He says I have an attitude. He may be right on that point. I wonder why? <P>Anyway, I have always been of the philosphy that when you point the blame finger at someone else, there are at least 3 fingers pointing back at you, so be prepared to take a good look at yourself also. I use that for others and myself. I am not exempt from constructive criticism. <P>H has shown himself to be more immature than my little one. Tonight, H accused me and his BIL of putting him in the corner regarding his financial options. H is living way beyond his means and will not cut his budget down (look for a cheaper place to live, cut down on expenses, give up cell phone luxuries, etc.) to be able to cover his bills. Now I am forced to cover his bills because of the great no fault law in this state. While I can cover our family's expenses, his are eating up all I am making and saved. Such irresponsibility!!! H aske why he can't claim our son as his deduction while not paying for his care. Then H said because he had to pay for 'all his food', he could not pay back the money he borrowed. H will not go and live with his mom. Not a good enough place for him. Boy, who does he think he is? Guess, I am venting again. Gotta stop and breathe......<P>Good night,<BR>L.<P> <P>

Orchid,<P>My oldest who is now going on 10, went thru "situational depression", which is fully treatable. If its not caught in time, it goes into a more complete state of depression thats not so easy to cure. SHe sees things more like an adult and denies her dad visits when he makes her angry.<P>My middle one didn't get depressed. She withdrew. Doesn't speak anything of the divorce, losing dad, but happily goes to see him anytime she can.<P>My youngest who is 3, has severe temper tantrums that go beyond the terrible twos and tempermental threes.<P>It affects kids in the worst way but if you deal with it right away, its easier to handle.<P>Kids also grieve this process, only in different ways. The signs might even seem harder to recognize. You can check with your school for a referral to a good counselor, or a program in school for the kid going thru divorce. <P>

Dear Dana,<P>Thanks, you have given me something to work with. I so much want to shield my son from the effects of all this but know that is impossible. Even if it were to stop today and get all better, we still have scars to deal with. As it is, there will be more fallouts of this whole episode. <P>I never want to be guilty of doing anything close like what has been done to me to another human being. This is too shameful. <P>L.<p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited March 28, 2001).]

Orchid,<P>You asked about my daughter. She's four, so she doesn't comprehend the adultery bit. I'm sure that once she learns about it, she will have questions and frown upon her mom. I told her the following until she memorized it: "Mommy and daddy won't be living together. You didn't do anything wrong." She would later recite it, even at school. Early on she talked about her bones and her blood. She didn't have the vocabulary to describe being scared. I figured she was scared of abandonment. I told her she would always have her mommy and daddy, just not at the same time. I called to set up an appointment with the counselor, though my STBX disagreed. By the time the appointment day rolled around, my daughter was doing better. <P>I was three and my brother newborn when my mother divorced my father for the OM (who became my step-dad). Even at three I knew he came into my life way too soon. A few months ago I talked to my dad and uncle about it. I was filled in on what I pretty much figured out. To my step-dad's credit, he took interest in us boys and tried to make us the best, but he overdid it. I didn't speak to him for ten years after I left home and I haven't spoken to him since, although it was a good talk. He has many positives and many more negatives. My mother didn't take much interest in us. Her famous quote, "My boys are self-raised". She was a very selfish person; died within the last year of cancer. She lived a pretty miserable life. The "love" for my step-dad went away in about a year and she stayed with my step-dad to raise us boys for umpteen years; a dead marriage. My step-dad slept on the couch for most of the marriage. She dumped my step-dad after us boys were out on our own. My mother was a very selfish person. Though it's good to be in a major city as opposed to a small town, (especially for my career reasons)us boys were moved 400 miles from our dad. I really don't know the man.<P>Isn't it ironic? My dad is alcohol dependant (functional alcoholic), was probably negligent when dealing with my mother, and has difficulty controlling his anger (anger, must be genetic, I have the problem too). He's gotten better over time. So, there were some bad times. <P>"In good times and in bad times" is the vow, right.<P>Here's the ironic part. My mother said that all she ever wanted was someone to take care of her. She had to work all those years with my step-dad and she hated it. My step-mother has never had to work (away from the home) a day in her life since marrying my dad. If my mother had honored her vows in the bad times, she would have had many good times. <P>Adultery is a pipedream. My best friend recently told me that. I'm glad I have a friend with such wisdom. His wife recently cheated on him, but they are back together. He quickly realized that if the OM was what she wanted, then she could have him. He wasn't a catch. His wife basically attacked him and was hauled off to jail. He was going full-throttle for his kids. He is a great dad. His wife woke up in time. His sister is committing adultery. I recently talked to the guy, though at the time, I didn't know who he was. I would have given him the cold shoulder. Why is the other person always such a downgrade? I guess because it takes a low person to mess with a married person.<P>Just got off the phone with my STBX. Her lawyer made the changes to the final divorce decree that my lawyer requested. The actual divorce is getting close.<P>Kevin<P>

Hi Kevin,<P>I just got in from work and running errands. Cooking dinner now and making some chicken soup since my son has the flu.<P>Wow. Such a story. Don't quite know how to describe it. I am tired just reading it. I do feel for your little one. My heart hurts knowing that these little ones may go through similar emotional stages as us. I too have talked with my son and he knows how to answer questions that may come up. My parents always 'play acted situations with me as a child so that I would be prepared' and I have done this with Joel. At first he was embarressed that the kids at school (he is in the 1st grade) would make fun of him for not having his dad at home. I had to tell him that they did not need to know that and even if they did I don't think they would make fun. This happens to other families also and if any did make fun it was because they did not understand and we could talk about it. So far this has been working for us. Being a little bit older, Joel does ask a lot of questions. It is not fair for them to have to suffer like this. Your example as a child is evidence of that. One of the girls at work that has been helping me tells me the same thing. <P>Though I have been around many families dealing with divorce, my childhood was relatively calm. My parents have been married for over 45 years. The only major disappointment was my sister who feels she is too good for our family and has not talked to me in over 12 years. She only talks to my parents when they track her down. Anyway, that's another story. <P>For me, this A of my H's is the worse thing I have ever dealt with. The hardest part is his attitude. I guess I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong. If I understand that I need to change, the I look at it as a chance to better myself. H has way too much pride and would rather die fighting than switch. Unfortunately, that could take us down with him. I am fighting that with all my might. <P>I am truly sorry you are so close to finalizing of the D proceedings. From other posts I have read sometimes it takes that kind of extreme to wake some back to reality. I have a feeling that H will go to those extremes just because of his pride. <P>Are you able to work out time with your daughter? Children know where the love comes from. All the sugar coating of gifts and bribes do not fool children. You sound like a real caring dad. This is good. Your daughter will appreciate all your efforts. I am the eldest daughter in my family and had a real close relationship with my dad. No boys in our family so I did all that fun stuff, you know mowing the lawn, car chores, fishing, family projects, etc. At least I am not a wimp. Ha ha. <P>That's what I want for my son. I want him to have fond memories to keep with him when he grows up. For us in this realm, this is going to be a challenge. My grandmothers on both sides had to be both mom and dad since both my grandfathers died when my parents were children (dad was 3 and mom was 10 years). My parents turned out ok. They had lots of love in their respective families. I hope I can to that for my son. <P>My H did not have a happy childhood, I understand that can make it difficult to be a better father and husband but I do not think it is the excuse to do what he is doing. I have encouraged him to get counseling and help, but he has basically refused. Again the attitude thing. Can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. <P>Well reading these posts tonight is helping me keep things in perspective. I used to cry endlessly and feel lost, now I think ahead and plan for the future. I am working hard to get to the acceptance stage. Hey, keep watching out for me and let me know when I get there, I may be too blind to notice. (only joking). <P>I still feel a great weight on my shoulders, this is what slows me down at times. But I get encouragement here on this site so I keep coming back. <P>You know I was at the store this evening and in the parking lot I was reflecting how much Joel and I are doing by ourselves. You know it is not much more than we had already been doing. So I really will not have much more work than I have. H was never really around anyway, when he was it was usually with contention. Yet, I still wanted him back. Why? Hmm... Seeing things in a different light. I guess that is the point one of my friends was trying to make. She told me to really think how much did I depend on H. I wanted to believe that I really needed him, when in reality he really needs me. <P>H told his BIL during out mediation meeting that he now has to pay and take care of 'all' his meals. No duh, he lives on his own. He has to wash his clothes, clean his room (right) and pay his own way (well he needs to work on that one). H went from his moms house to being married, he never really lived on his own before we got married. BIL says that may have some bearing on his attitude. Well, when is he going to figure it out that he isn't doing too well? <P>I am rambling and starting to vent. Don't need to do this tonight. I better go eat dinner and work on Joel's homework. <P>Just wanted to make a 'small comment' about your post, you mentioned twice that your mom was a selfish person, sounds like this is something that really bothered you. I know it does me when I see it in H. I am particularly sensitive to it. My MIL said she was a selfish person and now I know why she said it. She just confessed to an 11 year affair which ended about 3 years ago. So most of our married life, she was doing this and was one of the reasons why she never really like me. Unknown to me, I made her feel guilty. Now she is one of my supporters and even told her son (H) that he is 100% wrong. What a turn around. <P>Hey hang in there ok? You have the support of this entire board and some great persons out there on your side. Thank you for sharing your story with me, I know it was painful. Your points are appreciated. <P>Aloha,<BR>L.<P>

Orchid,<P>My STBX took a 10:30 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. M-F job with some call, moved out of the apartment and filed for divorce. Though I told her I was going to file (after finding out she was seeing the OM again), I later went and bought Divorce Busting by Michele Weiner-Davis. Great book, showed my STBX. I was trying everything I could, but she was too far into the fog. When I told my STBX that I wasn't going to file, she did. <P>With that job and moving out of the home, she's pretty much shot herself in the head as far as custody goes. She's been paying child support. She gets our daughter on Tuesday and Thursday nights overnight and returns our daughter to school the next day. She also gets our daughter on the 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekends. I have to run around a lot because of her odd schedule picking up and dropping off our daughter, but at least I have my daughter and I'm in a position to keep things fair as far as visition goes. I figure that's best for our daughter. If my STBX had primary custody, she'd probably make things miserable for me and that would impact our daughter. I've suffered enough from my STBX and I'm going to insure I don't have to suffer any more. I may give primary custody to my STBX in the future, but not right now while she's wacked out in the fog it's just not in the best interest of our daughter. <P>We are able to work changes out in visition although my STBX thinks she can dictate to me when she will see our daughter. <P>I now tell my STBX that she can't come back. She's had second thoughts. She's also made statements that she is much happier now. I figure she's just trying to convince herself that things are better even though she is miserable. <P>Why won't I take her back? I've already taken her back one time. (same OM) She started seeing him again and lied to me and blamed me. She is no longer the person I married. I exhausted all possibilites and I have to move on.<P>I know I'm not perfect. I did absolutely everything I could to save my marriage. Though I was getting hurt by her seeing the other man, I knew that the right thing to do was to make my marriage work. When she filed, I simply had had enough. If my daughter ever finds out what happened, I'm sure she will understand. Remember, I was the little boy in the exact same mess when I was three. I have absolutely no respect for my mother. I only hope she's found peace.<P>Kevin<P><BR>

Hi Kevin,<P>You sound stronger than I feel. I am glad. I know that at times I also feel stronger. Right now I am a bit shaky. <P>FIL picks up my son after school on Thursdays and he stayed (at my request until H came over to talk about finances). FIL spoke briefly to his son, gave him 1st hand experiences of losing one's family, stressed the need to be responsible, etc. unfortunately to no avail. <P>SIL also spoke to H tonight and H made her cry. This upset me. This is the sister he is the closest with. Now he is even distancing his family. <P>H told his dad that he was giving me all the money he could but that I was not happy because it was not enough. That is correct, however, H has options to reduce his expenses and still pay 'his' bills (not even child support or alimony). However, H does not want anyone to 'tell him what to do.'<P>H then told his father that I would only be satisfied when he gave up his room and either moved in with his mom or his OW so that he could give me more money. Wrong!!! So I stepped into the dining room and informed FIL that there are 2 sides to this story and that H's statements were not accurate. The moving options were presented to him as suggestions on how to lower his expenses (H's expenses are 30%+ his monthly income). Do the math. How quickly will he be hitting rock bottom? There were other suggestions but none were 'good enough' for him. <P>So I informed H and FIL that based on H's attitude and actions, I am being forced to move out of our home (rental) and live with MIL or some other relative, until we finish paying 'H's' bills. Go figure. Displace your family to pay for husband's bills, because husband refuses to cut his expenses. See in this state they will go after the wife's income. Still H would not budge. H even threatened to quit his job, move out of his rented room (rent is very high in this area) and disappear from the face of the earth. I said right, but I still have to cover you medically until we are divorced. So what good will that do me? No come back response from H. <P>H then became irriate, tried to leave. I had a letter written up for the landlord giving the 30 day notice. H needed to sign it because only H's name is on the rental agreement. This is a good thing because this actually makes H responsible for the rent. But I don't want to put more work on the landlord so I have been paying for everything. Anyway, the letter I wrote gave the reason for leaving due to 'wife needs to pay for husbands bills'. H did not like that (I figured that). I told H to write up his own 30 day notice. H was mad. Yelled at me in front of his father. Left in a huff via the back door and since the back gate is pad locked, H had to jump over the fence. <P>Enough? Oh it gets better. Something about a bag of clothes that someone at OW's house found on the front porch.<BR>Don't want to post all the details here, it is starting to sound like a soap opera again. <P>Anyway, FIL made sure I was ok before he left. I went to pick up my son from my cousin's house. Now I have to do some housework to calm down and put my little one to bed. I need some wind down time. <P>I need this to be over. I asked H to 'hurry up' and get the D papers. He won't even move in to OW to reduce my having to cover his bills. How low can you get? <P>H also tried to drive off and run me over when he was leaving. Well he was mad and I did try to stop him from leaving in such an angry state. That is when a vehicle becomes a weapon. That was stupid. <P>Now he is calling back tonight asking me how I am. I don't want to talk to him. The only thing hurt on me is my pride and I am used to that. <P>I never thought I would be looking forward to D. Now it is becoming a necessity. How sad. I never wanted to be in this position. I thought I was going to have an anxiety attack. FIL and cousin helped me calm down. I think I will be ok. Isn't life crazy?<P>Hey, I am glad you have custody of your daughter. I need to file for full custody for my son. Did you have to provide character witnesses or some kind of proof to back up your request? It is discouraging that the burden of proof, payment, effort, almost everything rests on the BS more than the WS. Sometimes I wish I did not care as much.<P>I still do not see how the WS's mind and heart could become so warped that natural affection or feelings can be so carelessly tossed aside. Even love for one's child is either second or not existant for the WS's. How sad. <P>One question: How is your daughter adjusting to the visitation schedule you described? I am not comfortable with H visiting with his son. I know he is the father, but I do not trust his judgement. H says I am too overprotective with son.<P>It is getting late & I feel my energy draining fast. <BR>Hope tomorrow is not as exciting, I need to rest. <P>Good night,<BR>L.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited March 30, 2001).]

(((((((((Orchid))))))))))<P>What a way to start your weekend hey? Sound like you still resolved very little and will have to do this all again. <P>I'm sure I will have better luck with my meeting as H will just punch in the numbers and be done with it. He will see it as one step closer to his freedom with his guilt free, friendly divorce plan. After all he is divorcing me out of the kindness of his heart to protect me from potential pain as he just doesn't feel the same way about me as he once did!!!<P>

Dear HopeAZ,<P>Well at least you sound more upbeat than the other day. I am glad. Yea, mine is going to continue to be more of a emotional ride. I don't need this kind of treatment. H called this morning asking how hurt I was (the truck incident), I told him I was not hurt physically but already wrecked emotionally, mentally and financially. Does he care? In word maybe, in action no. <P>Got to go on. H is suppose to work on D papers. He is also suppose to send 30 day notice to our landlord. The reason why his family has to move? Wife needs to pay for H's bills. H can not afford to rent himself a room and pay all his bills. H says he will NOT move out of his room (@$800.00 per month - rent is high in this part of CA, my portion is almost double H's) and pay his bills. <P>Well, if he does not, they (the creditors) will come after me. H gets the best of both worlds an OW who likes to play and the wife who has to pay. This kind of justice can only happen in California right?<P>Displacing H's family is something H is definitely considering. Can you believe that? What a man.<P>No wonder this D needs to happen. I feel like taking out a personal add in the newspaper and telling everyone about those H & OW. <P>Oh by the way, OW's H found the package I left on her doorstep. She is having a difficult time explaining why another man's work clothes were left at their home. Oh well... Anyway threats were made to have restraining orders sent against me but WS said he made that up. Even if they do, what slap me for dropping of a package? ok. Sure hate to waste the court's time on something so piddly. <P>Which stage am I in now?<P>L.<P>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited March 30, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited March 30, 2001).]

Orchid,<P>Same laws in AZ, well it doesn't have the highest D rate in the country for nothing!!! It is so damn easy to get it done here.<P>Have my numbers in line to give H. The end total even shocked me. Think he may accuse me of trying to take him. <P>Well, I will just have to wait and see. I imagine my mood will be not so good by Sunday. Thank goodness a friend has invited the kids and I around for a BBQ and Midori Margaritias on Sunday. Think I will need a drink by then!!<P>

BTW...your stage? Frustrated-Anger? <P>Wish it were as easy to move into acceptance as it is to be in denial, anger, and depression phases!!<P>