711--Yup, Jayhawk and Mike...the eternal optimists. I once said that I like to piss on the rainbow. They are always there to clean it up. Gotta love them. It has been a while? How the heck are you? I agree with the fantasy thing. We tried for so long to convince our spouse that with a little help and faith it would all work out peachy. Maybe we convinced ourselves too. I once posted that I had a feeling that he would come back whining once I had gotton on with my life and maybe met someone special. Well, his timing is impeccable. <P>Hopeless-I could have written that entire last statement. My ex believed in happily ever after. My friends say that he lives in the movies. Funny you should use that analogy. But in hollywood, they never show you things after the movie ends.<P>Cooker-It goes without saying that maybe the only way they could have realized their "mistake" is to have actually finished the race. I think WIFTT said that above. Stubborness plays a part. Pride is a biggie. If she didn't like admitting mistakes then, why now? Do you ever think about all the obstacles other than the emotional/trust issues you might have to overcome? Just wondering because I have thought that if I were to take him back--there would be moving out of state (for one of us), financial troubles,and my family and all my friends hate him. IT would be ugly and I cannot say that it would be worth the trouble. At one point in my life I would have said yes, anything is worth it. But good god, call me a ship jumper, but the thought makes me nauseous. I couldn't imagine thihnking about how a child would feel. You might think that it would shift responsibility to you instead. But I think kids are pretty in tune with things. They recognize pain and what causes it. His request to you (about not dating yet) is his way of saying that he does not approve of what she is doing. He has already said that he is uncomfortable. <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by gsd (edited April 08, 2001).]

Hi gsd,<P>My son & I rode laps at the beach & there must have been a couple dozen shepherd puppies there. Made me think of you. It was an interesting afternoon. I noticed a boardwalk stroller making eye contact with me, so I made my son take an extra lap with me so I could do another visual... He again told me that I needed to wait. Of course I've discovered that women find single guys with a kid almost as attractive as a guy with a puppy, so I was trolling <P>Anyhow, back to the subject at hand. I realize how difficult it would be for her to come back to us. And I would have done anything in my power to have made that easy on her. I would have moved, I would have minimized contact with my family. I would have changed jobs. In short, I would have done <B>ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING</B> to have saved my family. But now that it's gone on for 8 months, I'm begining to think that maybe there's someone out there who would like a hardworking, honest, affectionate partner to build a life together with. I'm not really sure I could drop the guard around my heart and let her back in. But in a moment of weakness, and if she could drop all her "special" friends, and agree to put "us" first, I think maybe I could give it a shot. But she is so cold, aloof and deeply in the fog, that the possibility of that is so remote as to defy odds.<P>And that's a shame. Because in the final analysis, we all lose.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again<p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited April 08, 2001).]

Did someone say shepard puppies? I really want a Australian Shepard puppy or AustShep/bordercollie cross. Talk about your unconditional love!!!<P>Anyhow, good for you Nick. Feels good to get noticed doesn't it? <P>In a moment of weakness I asked stbx H to consider separation, yikes!!!! I don't want that. Like you a few weeks ago I would have moved heaven and earth to make it work but I realized today that I have come a long way and don't think I could ever make it work with him. Too many hard feelings too much water under the bridge.<P>And yes there are women out here who want a man like you. Not only do you have great qualities you have been there done that and know the pain. I hope to find a man like yourself someday.<P>Stay strong and take care.

GSD:<P>I remember your posts about thinking he would want back when you finally had let him go. I'm glad that you have been able to move on. I wish you all the best.<P>I am doing really well right now. Everything seems to be falling into place for me now. My children had been seeing a therapist this month and the therapist said today that they are both doing great and do not need to come back. That was great news.

cooker--<BR>GSD puppies? Oh goodness, I would be in heaven. I can attest to the thing about guys with dogs It is a great conversation starter and shows that a guy has a heart and is a caretaker(maybe)-something a lot of women like. I have already decided that my next husband must like dogs!<P>I am exactly like you in the fact that even though I would have done anything to save my marriage--and I mean anything, and I too am beginning to see that there are men out there who would appreciate a woman with a sense of self, family, dedication, and honor. I am making myself look for reasons to believe this and it is working! I used to be very depressed during my marriage. I slept all the time and felt very lonely. Now my life is different. I am not blaming him, but I am forcing myself to look at the beauty in my life, and there is a bunch. I feel more attractive, smart, capable, and responsible than I did then. Ironic, huh?<P> My ex has not said the magic words "I want to come back," but my friends seem to think he is testing the water. I guess none of us really know what we would if our spouses were to come and try to turn our worlds upside down. I would be facing some tough decisions, that I know. It would not be as easy as I would like to think it would be. I am at a place in my life though where I can see things about the situation I never did before with so much more clarity. I would hope I have the strength of mind to make a decision based not on fear or familiarity, but on what I can define my life as now. Probably the thing that would make turning him away difficult would be the fact that now I would be the one responsible. I would take on the active role instead of the passive one. There is little comfort in that. <P><BR>Another thing: I suppose I could have gotton down on "men" like so many women do. Many of my female friends (single) think that all men are commitment phobes, sex jerks, or just selfish. They believe that men do not respect marriage or commitment. One friend (aquaintance, acutally) said when I mentioned that I was now divorced: "Oh that is a man for you…" I don't agree. I can say that I thank you guys for that. Especially you, Shawn (Jayhawk), Mike (SoTired) and other men on this site who have shown such honor and devotion in regards to their spouses and families. And honor is the most important quality for me. I had begun to doubt if there were really men like you out there. The devotion is nice to see. A big hug to all of you! <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by gsd (edited April 11, 2001).]

Aw shucks <P>I've always liked Shepherds, 'cause they're so good with kids & I know my son would love one (wow a single guy at the beach playing with his son & a puppy. This could have possibilities ), but I travel way too much.<P>I am still in the "surviving" mode right now, but I think this spring will be my time to get back out in the world. It's difficult not to rush out and try to "find" someone to ease the lonliness, but if I've learned anything in here, it's that that kind of relationship is just a bandaid and doesn't help in the healing process. I was absolutely totally in love with my STBx, so it could take me longer to get over her than in a lot of cases. But I do indeed feel it starting to fade. I'm starting to get used to being alone, and I think that's a positive step.<P>I've looked back over the relationship and seen the good and the bad of it, and from my perspective the good far outweighed the bad, and that bothers me a little now. To see something that special destroyed unnecessarily saddens me greatly. But time has helped me realize that there is nothing more I could have done. I can live with myself knowing I did all I could.<P>I'm sure there are lot of players and jerks, etc out there, just like there are manipulators & golddiggers I really believe that we find the people we are meant to be with when we aren't looking. That's how it happened to me the first time, and you can bet that of it ever happens to me again, I'll take better care of the relationship. Forever.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again<p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited April 11, 2001).]

Just want to say that I don't usually come to this board......today, I did and am ever glad that I did. Lots of light here in the darkness I have felt over that past several days.<P>I may be returning "often" in the coming weeks and months.<P>From the bottom of my heart...Thank you!<P>d2

Discovery--<BR>Glad you came! You will find many people here who can offer a heck of a lot of support. I have! <P>Cooker--<BR>Your line about living with yourself knowing that you did all you could is so true. And that is all that matters at this point. I promised myself I would never second guess myself because i feel comfortable that I did my part. He has admitted that he did not. <P>And taking your kid AND the dog to the beach is cheating!<BR>

I'm not sure mine will ever admit it, but it really doesn't matter. I have to live with me, not her. And I'll be able to do that, when all is said and done.<P>Hey, if you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough Puppies, kids, sports cars, whatever it takes! <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Hi there, Happy Easter weekend!<P>Been reading this thread and it hit a lot of points that happened recently between stbx and I. Although, stbx just wanted to get me to help him start up a relationship with his kids again and then still do the divorce. I told counselor that I said I would be more than willing to help him in any way if he planned on coming back, but to put in the effort, time, and emotions in helping him only to have him kick me in the teeth again, that I was too tired and just couldn't do it anymore.<P>At this point, I still love him, the person he is down deep and has lost, but I know that the kids and I are better off without him and I am moving forward in my life. Yes, I dated a few guys, probably to get a little self esteem back and it was nice to have something outside of all of this. I also realized that I really don't want to date anyone anymore, I have too much to work on for me right now.<P>A friend has talked me into going to a divorce recovery course with her and I am looking forward to that. In a month's time I have gone from talking to stbx, actually had some great times with him, to a total Plan B and no contact at all. I drank too much the other night here at the house and so promised myself and the kids that I would stop drinking... it wasn't good for me or them and I never used to drink by myself, just started it when H left. <P>So, in answer to what would happen if they suddenly changed their minds and decided to come back? I tried... only to find out it was just another game. Stbx made it very clear that his priority was the welfare and feelings of his friend across the street. Pretty sad to lose your husband to a guy and the lifestyle without kids.<P>I think of all of you and what we've all gone through on this site... big hugs on this holiday, hope you are spending it well! <P>Lori