CJ, now I see why you asked Mike about his intentions for his letter. Because, while I don't disagree with your evaluation, I'm not sure your evaluation captures his priorities. Mike, of course, can speak for himself, but I know when I wrote <I>my</I> letters to my wife I was not primarily concerned with how my wife would react when she read them. I had a pretty good idea that she would react negatively <I>no matter what I wrote</I>.<P>I didn't write my letters to my wife hoping to convince her that I was right and she was wrong. I wrote my letters in the hope that some day she would realize <I>herself</I> that she was wrong. I hope that when that day comes, she will get out my letters and read them, and know <I>on that day</I> that I love her, yes, "in spite" of her betrayal. I want her to know that I would be overjoyed with the restoration of our marriage, that I empathize with her and understand the desperation that prompted her actions, and that I <I>will not</I> hold what she did against her.<P>How can I really tell her that I forgive her if I don't acknowledge the <I>wrong</I> that she did me? Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.<P>Beyond that, one of the hard lessons I have had to learn in my marriage is that I cannot take responsibility for how my wife reacts. When I did that, it nearly destroyed me, because my wife reacted negatively to <I>everything</I> and I blamed myself. Yes, I need to be sensitive, but sometimes I also have to do what's right and let the chips fall where they may. I don't think I'm much of a friend (let alone much of a husband) if I see my wife doing something self-destructive and I fail to call her on it, albeit as lovingly as possible. Especially when no one else is doing it.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited April 13, 2001).]

CJ,<P>First let me say thank you for your honesty. You do make some good points and they did give me some things to think about. Whether it be good or bad, I did send out the letter last week (toned down ever so slightly). A couple things about my wife and where everything stands...<P>First, everyone around her of importance has always "babied" her. Through all of our problems, the theme that carried forth from her family and even her preacher was that "you need to be happy". Now granted my wife is EXCELLENT at asking people loaded questions just so she can get the response and support she is looking for and I know that in this case, it would be all the more so. All through this experience I have admitted time and time again, all of my mistakes, my faults. But I went further than that by telling/showing her how I had changed. I even asked for her forgiveness time and time again. The truth is that I admitted I messed up, I changed my behavior and I asked and received forgiveness from God. So my belief is that I no longer need to constantly ask for her forgiveness.<P>Secondly, she is acting and has been acting like a little kid for the past year. No job, living off daddy - heck she even started talking as if she was in high school or college again. It is like she regressed 5 - 10 years. So even though I know it does not help, and I try my hardest not to do it, I find myself treating her like a little girl. So when you say I sounded preachy, I do agree with you. I also agree that maybe I should have left those comments out.<P>Third, she is under the impression that she is doing what is "best" for the both of us. WRONG. I wanted this communication to reinforce that this is 100% her decision and thus the consequences are hers and hers alone. CJ, although I still have hope, it is more apparent that barring a miracle, our divorce is going to go through and be finalized. The chance of reconciliation before then is very slim. But, to me that is not the end of "us". I know how stubborn my wife is (SO STUBBORN), and I know that it will take a long time for her to ever admit that maybe she acted too quickly and did not give us a chance. When she does, I wanted her to have a record of what I will be feeling the day we sign the divorce papers. I want her to know that I would have done anything to stop the divorce.<P>Finally, yes I did sound preachy, but you know what? Just because someone may not "want" to hear the truth, does not mean it should not be said. She left the Catholic church when she left me - why? Was it because she was unhappy with its teachings? NO. It was because of the church's view on divorce - It did not correspond with her beliefs at that time so she chose to go to another religion for consolation, one that would accept her decision without giving her any guilt (just so happens that the pastor's daughter was going through a divorce at the same time so the rationalization factor was running high during their conversations).<P>Gnomedeplume really nailed it on the head for me - These were my feelings - my thoughts. Things that I did not want to just get off my chest, things I wanted "her" to hear. I have been baby-footing around her for the past 8 months. So scared to say something that might upset her. Now I only speak the truth - not on purpose to hurt her, but rather so I can live with the knowledge that she knew exactly how I felt.<P>You are right, she is in a lot of ways like an alcoholic and she will hear things and construe things to her liking. BUT just as a friend to an alcoholic should not condone their friend's drinking, neither will I sit and condone her actions. What she is doing is wrong - plain and simple. She even had to run away so as to not face her actions. I CAN'T change that nor can I change her mind. And at this point, I am so tired of thinking about what should I say or what could I say. Last week I wanted to say just a couple things to her:<P>1) I still love and think about her often<BR>2) This is her decision and it IS a mistake<BR>3) I am willing to talk if she wants to<BR>4) I can no longer guarantee my feelings once the ink<BR>on the divorce papers is dry.<P>Thanks again though for your thoughts and efforts,<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

CJ,<P>I have to admit, your post has been on my mind all day. But, what's done is done, right? I think one of the worst parts of all this garbage we all go through is "second guessing" ourselves - it is at least for me. I tend to be a very passionate person - sometimes I let it get away from me. While my heart and even my mind may be in "the right place", I find the words coming out of my mouth or from my pen can really muck things up. So all through this I have second guessed everything I have done and said. And as far as I can see nothing I have done or said since the begining of all this mess has worked. ARRRRGGGGGGGG!<P>Sometimes I wish there was a definite plan of action one could take to fix a marriage - like paying $xxxxx or following a guaranteed plan of "First do (A), then say (B) then go ahead and do (C), etc...". Unfortunately there is no definite right or wrong in our lives. I guess all we can do is the best we can...<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Mike and GDP,<P>First, before anything else, I want both of you to understand that I am COMPLETELY in agreement with what you both said: that sometimes you have to write what you have to write. Furthermore, I wholeheartedly agree that the letter that Mike wrote was very good for him and cathartic for him. I hope that you two realize that one of my biggest fears in saying anything at all was that it would seem as if I were "picking apart words" when the saying of those words was so important.<P>Just so you both know, I had only one goal: to try to share how I would have felt if I got that exact letter, and hopefully my feelings might be somewhat similar to Mike's stbx. After all, if I remember right, she and I are a little similar in some ways. Here's the thing, and correct me if I'm wrong here Mike, but it is my recollection that your wife has mentioned before that she thought you were "preachy", and since I did sense that a little off of your letter, I thought it might open your eyes a little to have a friend tell you ways in which you come off sounding preachy when I know for a fact that your intention was loving. <P>Second, GDP, I have to applaud you, literally applaud you, for the statement you made. You are so right--and I realize that the goal here was not to argue so incredibly skillfully that his wife suddenly realized he was right, but rather, years from now when she realizes what she has done, she will have a document in her hand that may say some things that needed to be said. And I love what you wrote about being responsible for your wife's actions. IT'S SO TRUE!! The day I let go of being responsible for my husband's actions and reactions was the day I grew up! <P>Last but not least, let me just say that I was very concerned about one thing as I was writing my letter. I think that when a person is a drinking "alcoholic" and is in the midst of their disease, they will not have the capability to hear the truth, even when it is spoken to them. However, I do believe that there are things that are inherently "Right" and "Wrong", even godly and sinful, and I do believe it is our duty to say that something that is wrong (as in evil) is wrong. Call it "wrong" to it's face! The thing is, while I think we are called to speak out on things that are "sinful", I also think that those involved in the sin are highly unlikely to hear--because they don't want to. Thus, Mike, just so you know where I'm coming from, I think it is absolutely wrong to break a vow that you took before your family and before your God "because you're not happy", but the person doing that evil thing is not very likely to hear that it is ungodly, because she is all wrapped up in the "temporary fun" of the wrongdoing. But, thankfully, God has given us a promise: "Be sure your sin will find you out." <P>Believe me, I wish there was a manual on how to fix marriages, like "Marriages for Dummies" I'd buy the big print version, because I need it! I'm with you on this one thing--it seems like everything I try to do to fix it is wrong. So, my dear brother, now it's your turn to give me YOUR honest opinion. What do can you see that I can't seem to see? For the love of God, do you have any suggestions for me (from the guy's point of view)? Please don't be shy, because I need to be whipped into shape here! Thanks!<P>CJ<P><BR>P.S. I see you had a good Easter. It's so cool to actually meet earthbound angels, isn't it?<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.