<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BrambleRose:<BR><B>One more thought, and btw, dittos to what Just Learning said! <P>I do my best thinking in the shower too and as I pondered this whole thread I realized that maybe this explanation might help:<P>You should treat yourself with self-respect. But often, it's used as an excuse.<P>As I already described in my post above - I used to use self-respect as a weapon.<P>Here's the same scenerio - but with 2 different motivations behind them.<P>In the past:<P>I kicked my H out of my bed. I told myself and him that he was disrespectful to me, and that he didn't deserve to be in MY bed. My motivation was not about self-respect - that was just the candy coated lie to myself.<P>I wanted to control, manipulate, and punish my H into doing what I wanted.<P>In the end, I punished and hurt myself. I ended up crying myself to sleep - because my H hurt me horribly by acquiesing to my demands. THE NERVE OF HIM!! <P>Now fast forward to today.<P>I've filed for divorce, and I'm STILL kicking my H out of my bed.<P>When he stays over, he pulls every trick in the book to get back into my bed. <P>But now, I do not cry myself to sleep when I draw a line, respect myself, and tell him to sleep alone.<P>My asking him to leave my bed is about protecting and loving myself - NOT about punishing and controlling him. I am no longer trying to force him to react - I let go of him, and focused on me.<P>So now I fall asleep, listening to him settling in the room across the hall - and know that my heart is safe from yet another hurt.<P>Same actions, different motivations, and so very different outcomes....</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well Bramble rose, <P>First an apology. Yesterday was pure hell for me, and I felt completely justified in my actions. I felt put off by the response I recieved here, as I thought I was expected to be a doormat. I still cant figure out how to respond to him when he is inconsiderate. I apologize to you. I am very sorry. Yes, you were all right, I should not have told not to stay away. <P>Your scenario hit the hammer on the nail. That has always been my way of drawing him in and it always worked. Not any more. He is here now but completely angry with me and distant. In the last few months it did not bother him when I showed him love, no he wants no part of it. What to do?<P>By me leaving to TX it forces me to move on with my life. That is our hometown, and I need the support. So do the kids. It really seemed to give him the room to express himself to me. Onje night, as we lay in bed, looking at each other, he said let me go . I said I already have hon. He began to cry. Said he never hated me, only hated himself. Told me how frustrated he feels letting me go, how he hates himself for it. We made love, it was wonderful. After he asked me, what should he do? I replied only what you really want to do. I knew he was reconsidering, but I did not want to take advantage of hius weakness.<P>Now, he doesnt want to be near me. I blew it!! Is it too late?<P>I ask of you to help me through this BR. I have always "pulled him in" by pushing him away. Doesnt work now. If you read my reply to JL, you will maybe understand my history. I do, for my own benfit, need to relearn and reevaluate my behaviors and defense mech. So, even after I offended you, I humbly ask for your help, as one who has been there and knowing I have a hell of alot to learn.<P>Thanks,<BR>Dara<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by new_beginning:<BR><B>Soooo...Learning as I go</B>: <P>Let us help you, please!!<P>...and <B>BR</B>, my gosh, I've so been where you are right now too! I {hanging my head} made my ex-H sleep on... I can't believe I'm saying this, or did it, but... the FLOOR. <P>Just like the dog I thought he was.<P>Nice, eh?<P>Listen to us, Learning... we have so much to offer you!!!<P> Hi to <B>JL</B>... kind words, cyber-pal Thank you! <P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hello NB,<P>Thank you also for your patience with me. I felt like giving up yesterday, running away. After reading the responses here and realizing my mistakes I felt very worthless. <P>I need your help. I feel lost. Out of options. Have I blown it? Gone to far? When I have given him room, and ensured that he is not threatened, he does give love. Now he says he doesnt even want any love from me. <P>What to do? I do need guidance, and I will let go of my bull headednes realizing that you all have been where I am. I humbly ask you to assist me in regaining what I have lost. Plaese forgive my anger.<P>Dara<BR>

Hi Orchid, <P>Thank you for being here. I am doing a bit better today I suppose.<P>He did come home last night and said he wants no more arguing. I asked if this would be a two way thing, or are you asking me to stop responding when you are inconsiderate. WE have a house to run here and he does nothing. I cant even work for 2 weeks during the kids break because he wont miss a day of school. Yet he blames me when there isnt enough money. On issues like this I have no idea how to respond. <P>It seems the only time I get any love, affection from him is when I let go. Funny thing is, he is still possesive with me. I still contemplate calling the OW husband, but I dont want to create any more arguements. I feel completely numb about this. Just when it seems that it couldn't get worse it does. The kids are ahving a hard time. He wont talk to them about it, says if they want to talk they will. NOT!! Eight YO is having bad headaches at night. Went outside yesterday and told her friends she doesnt have a daddy anymore. I wish he knew the destruction he is causing. <P>I told him that this is very hard for all of us; that he is leaving them too. He does not have to be so stubborn!!<BR>He thinks he wouls be a fool to give me another chance. <BR>Wayward is such an apt descript, ya know?<P>I have finally found the strentgh not to push or question him when he reconsiders. I was just busy trying to make him feel safe and loved. But now I do not know if there is any hope. <P>I would reconsider moving (he doesnt want us to go) if, IF, he would give this marraige a shot. But he wont. I never have felt so darn alone. Hell I've never lived alone!!<P>Write me back please. I know I seem a jumble of thoughts.. I am actually. I need help sorting this out.<P>thank you for your support,<BR>Dara

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B> Hello NB,<P>Thank you also for your patience with me. I felt like giving up yesterday, running away. After reading the responses here and realizing my mistakes I felt very worthless. <P>I need your help. I feel lost. Out of options. Have I blown it? Gone to far? When I have given him room, and ensured that he is not threatened, he does give love. Now he says he doesnt even want any love from me. <P>What to do? I do need guidance, and I will let go of my bull headednes realizing that you all have been where I am. I humbly ask you to assist me in regaining what I have lost. Plaese forgive my anger.<P>Dara</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi <B>Dara</B> -- you have a lovely name. <P>I'm at a point in my life where I'm not working outside the home, so I'm here a lot... I would love to help you if I can, not to make the same mistakes **I** did which resulted in the end of my marriage.<P>You have taken a first step, by realizing that how you were feeling yesterday was very HUMAN, but not very helpful. <P>Certainly **I** accept your apology. Now, take that tender spirit and go to your H. Don't smother him, but ask for his forgiveness. And then let it go -- let him process it -- and treat him with love, using the concepts found in Plan A.<P>I did try to Plan A, but I wasn't very successful. I was hard-headed and frankly, at times, hard-hearted. He wasn't much better, and in fact, had a series of new affairs (he'd had three in the 1980's) in his desperation - and he admitted later, it was also to "pay me back" for what I'd done to him with the affair I'd had.<P>What a mess! And now I'm divorced. I am with someone else now, and I use the concepts found here, and will continue to do so, because they WORK, so that I never, EVER have to go through this kind of hell again.<P>Is it too late for you? OH NO, IT ISN'T TOO LATE!!!! You can do this!!<P>Begin with a willing spirit, work on being a woman who meets the needs of her H, and take care of YOU... prayer, long hot baths, counseling (not necessarily in that order )... you CAN DO THIS!!<P>Keep writing here, reading, reaching out.<P>Nice to meet you, Dara.<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Hello back NB, <P>And thank you for forgiving me. I just called him, asked if he planned on coming home today. He said he needs to study for the most part of the day. He is taking classes right not not even pertaining to his degree, doesnt need to take them. I replied you know we are leaving in a few weeks and the kids would love to around you yet you are chosing to study instead. <P>He said this is starting an arguement. I told him that to avoid arguing it needs to be a 2 way street, not to just expect to do whatever you want and me not to react.<P>This week I cannot work because he refuses to take time off school for the kids. Money is a prob right now. He asked last night if I could work today, I said yes are you willing to miss class? No. He asked if he should take the little one to daycare today on campus, I said yes I would love a break, then he said he would. Yet he lleft this morning w/o taking him, I called, and he said that he needed his time to read instead.<P>No compromise, yet he wants no arguing. I cant even work because he wont miss class! How am I supposed to apologize to him? He wants no arguing yet is cont to be selfish.<BR>This is where the "doormat" issue comes in. I hung up on him. I really just wanted to see him but he put me off and said he needed ot read.<P>Any suggestions?

Okay, my suggestion:<P>Call him back and apologize for hanging up on him. Tell him you understand how important school is to him -- and say, (only if you **really** would like him to come home) -- that you'd LIKE him to come home. Don't ask him if he "plans" to come home because that does sound a bit like beginning an argument.<P>Now, as far as the doormat issue... I am the last one to tell you to "put up or shut up"... I promise you that! Nobody should put up with abuse of ANY kind. Now, your H is dealing with the pain of the last few days, just like you are. Give him some time to cool off... and don't pressure him into talking to you about it -- THIS IS THE NUMBER ONE MISTAKE I MADE!!! I'm a talker, and my ex was NOT. He'd literally RUN away from me when I wanted to talk about "us" and in fact we had a little name for "the talks" -- "relationshipal"... no relationshipal talks. Silly, but I didn't get it at the time. He couldn't talk to me about how he felt, he didn't know how. Plus, he didn't help himself much by not going to a counselor himself, or with me. <P>Dara, I know money is tight... but is there anyone, a minister or counselor who could talk to you on a scale-payment system?? I saw a wonderful priest (a woman, Episcopalian) who was free and a licensed therapist. <P>Most of all, I commend you on coming back and talking to us. I'm sorry if I was rough yesterday... I had a beginning migraine, and I tend to be a bit rough. I don't mean to be.<P>Your marriage is so worth saving... and I honestly think you have HOPE!!<BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Dara,<P>You really don't need to apologize, people here understand the stresses life can throw at you. But if if makes you feel better, Your apology is accepted. Now are you ready for some really hard work. I think that NB and the others are going to work your A$$ off. <P>First, a little education, which by the way you should never try to do to your H. Educating your spouse is most often an LB.<P>You said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> And thank you for forgiving me. I just called him, asked if he planned on coming home today. He said he needs to study for the most part of the day. He is taking classes right not not even pertaining to his degree, doesnt need to take them. I replied you know we are leaving in a few weeks and the kids would love to around you yet you are chosing to study instead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is a disrespectful judgement of him. Did he do this when you were in college? Think about it. I am sure he resented the time that he lost with you, just as you resent him in college. So lets go over a few things and see if we can set the stage for a plan, OK?<P>First, lets go over what we think we know or can guess.<P>1. Your H has a very low self-esteem. <P>My guess is that he always had this issue, and in someways it allowed him to deal with you over the years (perhaps even share you, because he felt unworthy). That is the good news. The bad news he knew he wasn't THE MAN and a lot of resentment built up. You are seeing the result of that resentment.<P>2. Your H is feeling very guilty.<P>Again, my guess he feels guilty about the children. He feels guilty that the OW is attractive to him. He feels guilty that she is married. He feels guilty about how he treats you, hence all of the anger. You do need to learn that anger is often driven by pain and guilt. If you remember this you will see your H's behavior in a different light. HE is running from himself.<P>3. Your H is very touchy about the schooling.<P>He knows it will help him and yes even the family if he gets his degree. He also knows it is a financial hardship. He also knows it is his statement of independence (yes we are back to self-esteem again.)<P>4. Your H is now in full rebellion against your "control" and the methods you have used to "control" him.<P>I needn't say more. This is why a 180 degree change in approach is called for. It is tough to rebel against someone who is agreeing with you.<P>5. You are responding to your pain with anger.<P>Very normal, but counter productive in this situation. You feel not showing anger is weak or indicating that your H can run over you. Yet you did it to him. So let me ask you a question, who would you think is tougher: you?,or Jesus Christ? I could throw in you or Gandi (sp?). Both of these men are known for their peaceful natures, their forgiveness, their willingness to endure suffering to help others. Are they weak? Were they run over? In one perspective yes, but they prevailed LAIG, because their love was strong, their cause was right, and they knew their best and most potent weapon was patience born of faith.<P>6. I believe you know you love your H.<P>7. And finally, I believe your H loves you.<P>I will guess again, the problem LAIG is that he doesn't love himself. He has put up with, dealt with, and recovered from many things because he felt he didn't deserve better from you and others. You are seeing the anger and conflict caused because he healed in the wrong way, he felt he HAD to rather than he felt he WANTED to.<P>Now we can go over each of these points but I would like you to think about them. I would like you to stop and look at your life. Can you stay there even if H leaves if he helps financially? Can you love a man who right now doesn't love himself, but needs desparetly needs for you to love him (heck LAIG, the OW is just filling the need. She isn't his future he knows that and so do you). You are his future, but you must also grow to be his future.<P>You must (yes, even at this young but very experienced age) grow into a mature, self confident woman, wife, and mother. You don't do that by demanding that someone else protect you or else. You do it by doing what you can do well. Look at the list here. You are capable of dealing with each item, but they must be done with grace, patience, and TIME. Give yourself and your H time to heal, grow, and learn. It all cannot be done at once, and it is very hard to do long distance. Your marriage took a long time to get into this state, it won't be repaired by May. Your H won't be ready to work on this for quite awhile, but he will be if you have patience and love. This is a hugh test for you Dara, larger than anything you have ever faced, because it demands many things from you that you are not accustomed to doing, but you can do them. You know what the most amazing part of this is? If you do this, YOU will be the most rewarded, not your H, not your children, YOU.<P>I must go get some work done, today. So I will leave you in the very capable hands of NB and the other ladies here. Talk, ask them questions, and pray. Pray for your growth and the protection of your childre. Pray, that your H's pain will be eased.<P>This can all work out, but you need Time and Patience (T&P) Dara.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Well, I took your advice and called him back and apologized. Very difficult thing to do, considering I have our mortgage co calling about April's payment and I haven't worked one day for it. I am a nurse, and work for a staffing agency, so I can set my own schedule. I told him that I understand that his school is important to him, so therefore it is important to me. But so is our home, and I cannot do this alone. He just said I know. Told him that I could have worked tonight but he is not here. But I would like him here anyways, I miss him. Said he would be around after awhile. <P>It still seems that I am the one worrying about everything, the kids the bills etc. He is off in his own world unwilling to make sacrifices even for finances or the kids. That REALLY bothers me. He told me he would stay home with the kids this week but hasnt done it yet. He said he would stay with them last week too, not one day. So I lose two weeks worth of wages because of him. It is getting easier and easier to resent him. I realize that this is not condusive to any hope of this marraige, but what should I do?

Dear LAIG,<P>I am still surprised for all the hurt and anguish he is putting you through he does not want you to leave. I hope this is not redundant but have you ever tried communicating with him via e-mail. Sometimes face to face confrontation is taken by the Ws's as offensive. Having to look at us reminds them of what they are not doing. <P>H & I e-mails for several weeks. It seemed to help him communicate with me better. He even asked when was I sending him something to read. I spoke my heart in those e-mails and sometimes they were even blunt but since he was not listening to my voice and emotional tones, it may have been eaiser for him to swallow. <P>Also, can he tell you (maybe in an e-mail) why he wants you to stay? Tell him you are having a hard time trying to figure that one out and need his help. Without being sarcastic of course. <P>Just some suggestions. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

I agree with Orchid.<P>You are setting things up to make it safe for him to return to you... <P>...even though it's hard to see right now... you are doing the right things...<P>I think he still needs some time to process all of this. I know it's unfair for you to do all the work. IT IS UNFAIR. But as someone said here, and it hurt to read so get ready, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?"<P>You are on the right track. Even if this doesn't work, you will have the piece (and peace) of mind that you did all you could.<P>Hang in there, you're doing good.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<P>1. Your H has a very low self-esteem. <P>My guess is that he always had this issue, and in someways it allowed him to deal with you over the years (perhaps even share you, because he felt unworthy). That is the good news. The bad news he knew he wasn't THE MAN and a lot of resentment built up. You are seeing the result of that resentment.<P>2. Your H is feeling very guilty.<P>Again, my guess he feels guilty about the children. He feels guilty that the OW is attractive to him. He feels guilty that she is married. He feels guilty about how he treats you, hence all of the anger. You do need to learn that anger is often driven by pain and guilt. If you remember this you will see your H's behavior in a different light. HE is running from himself.<P>3. Your H is very touchy about the schooling.<P>He knows it will help him and yes even the family if he gets his degree. He also knows it is a financial hardship. He also knows it is his statement of independence (yes we are back to self-esteem again.)<P>4. Your H is now in full rebellion against your "control" and the methods you have used to "control" him.<P>I needn't say more. This is why a 180 degree change in approach is called for. It is tough to rebel against someone who is agreeing with you.<P>5. You are responding to your pain with anger.<P>Very normal, but counter productive in this situation. You feel not showing anger is weak or indicating that your H can run over you. Yet you did it to him. So let me ask you a question, who would you think is tougher: you?,or Jesus Christ? I could throw in you or Gandi (sp?). Both of these men are known for their peaceful natures, their forgiveness, their willingness to endure suffering to help others. Are they weak? Were they run over? In one perspective yes, but they prevailed LAIG, because their love was strong, their cause was right, and they knew their best and most potent weapon was patience born of faith.<P>6. I believe you know you love your H.<P>7. And finally, I believe your H loves you.<P>I will guess again, the problem LAIG is that he doesn't love himself. He has put up with, dealt with, and recovered from many things because he felt he didn't deserve better from you and others. You are seeing the anger and conflict caused because he healed in the wrong way, he felt he HAD to rather than he felt he WANTED to.<P>Now we can go over each of these points but I would like you to think about them. I would like you to stop and look at your life. Can you stay there even if H leaves if he helps financially? Can you love a man who right now doesn't love himself, but needs desparetly needs for you to love him (heck LAIG, the OW is just filling the need. She isn't his future he knows that and so do you). You are his future, but you must also grow to be his future.<P>You must (yes, even at this young but very experienced age) grow into a mature, self confident woman, wife, and mother. You don't do that by demanding that someone else protect you or else. You do it by doing what you can do well. Look at the list here. You are capable of dealing with each item, but they must be done with grace, patience, and TIME. Give yourself and your H time to heal, grow, and learn. It all cannot be done at once, and it is very hard to do long distance. Your marriage took a long time to get into this state, it won't be repaired by May. Your H won't be ready to work on this for quite awhile, but he will be if you have patience and love. This is a hugh test for you Dara, larger than anything you have ever faced, because it demands many things from you that you are not accustomed to doing, but you can do them. You know what the most amazing part of this is? If you do this, YOU will be the most rewarded, not your H, not your children, YOU.<P>I must go get some work done, today. So I will leave you in the very capable hands of NB and the other ladies here. Talk, ask them questions, and pray. Pray for your growth and the protection of your childre. Pray, that your H's pain will be eased.<P>This can all work out, but you need Time and Patience (T&P) Dara.<P>God Bless,<P>JL[/b][/QUOTE]<P>Hello Jl,<P>You are so perseptive, this is why I tuely enjoy your resoponses. So allow me to address your list. Here we go.<BR>By the way, this is open for comment to all.<P>1. He has low self esteem.<BR> Very true. He "shared me" thinking that that was the only way to hold on to me..he was on his way out for a long deployment, afraid of losing me. Sometimes when I tell him how handsome he is, he denies it. Also wonders why women hit on him all the time. Looks like George Clooney minus 10 years. I have done nothing to make him feel good about himself.<P>2. He feels very guilty.<BR> Yes he does. He has always valued the purity of our marraige. To see another woman who is married also goes against his grain. This is why I do believe it is just a EA. He knows what he is doing to the kids, hates himself for it, see topic #1. But feels he has gone too far to go back.<P>3. He is very touchy about the schooling.<BR> Bingo again! He has control over himself in this area. He knows I equate his ed. with the OW. It hurts me and he knows it.<P>4. He is in rebellion against my "control"<BR> Bammo! He said just this last night. I have no control over this or him, I cannot change him or make this marraige work. He says I spent up my control over the years.<P>5. I am responding to my pain with anger.<BR>I told him this, as he does not understand how I can be angry with him and still love him. When I am quiet, he approaches me to ask if I hate him yet. Says that I dont make sense. How can I love him and be angry? I replied I am just not you. He was never angry over the years with me, just himself, see topic #1. This is a subject that I desperately need to learn how to control. Very good likeness, Jesus or Ghandhi. Excellent examples. This will help me when I feel angry as I do now, and S*** on.<P>6. You believe he loves me. <P>He has told me he does when he doesnt feel threatened. How accomplish that again I do not know.<P>7. And finally, yes I do love him<BR> <BR>Just having a hard time showing it, and fighting resentment right now.<P>Of all things I do resent is the women out there blasting the men they once loved at the precious cost of their childrens well-being. I do have ALOT of learnig to do.<P>THank you for the time, and mostly for your honesty.<P>Dara<P><p>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited April 12, 2001).]

Hi Orchid,<P>We still live together so E mailing him would be corny in his eyes. He said he wants no expression of love from me. So what I am unsure of is how to even act around him.<P>He has said that we need a seperation, but he is having a hard time being w/ o the kids. He is a good dad. He has also told me that he will miss me greatly. I just think he needs the room right now. To reasses himself, and if he wants us. He will do nothing under pressure, understandably, and by me moving it does give him room. i could just stay here and have him move out, but I need some support, which I will get with our famiilies. I dont have the resources to pull it off here alone. Nor do I want the kids doing it with just me as incabable as I feel right now. They need their grandma's, and so do I. I would stay if he could give me some hope of us, to at least try, but he is unwilling. And I cant push either.<p>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited April 12, 2001).]

Dear Learning,<P>Thank you for such a touching apology. Accepted - but know that it wasn't needed. I've been exactly where you are, and I completely understand.<P>I saw your other post - it seems that your H decided to come home after all! Wonderful!<P>Now get your Plan A into place - and STICK TO IT, no matter what he does, says, or how 'unfair' it all is.<P>Dittos to what NB said - Do you want to be right or do you want to be married? My Al-Anon sponsor says something similiar . . .Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?<P>I'm afraid that I can't give you any wise sage advise on how to save your marriage. I don't exactly know what a succesful recovery/marriage looks like, all though I can guess from the posts I have read from oldtimers here. I spent 10 years in an alcoholic marriage that went from bad to worse. My marriage couldn't be saved - and I still love my H with all my heart.<P>I can only tell you what I know *won't* work. <P>I understand how badly you want your marriage. Maybe Sheryl or JL can give you some names to search under for old posts from people on these boards that are succesfull. You ought to be reading posts from people who succeeded!! <P>I can tell you that I sometimes think that there is not enough posting on these boards about what Love Busting really is. Disrespectful judgements are probably the most common, and most insidious of love busters...but I don't ever see anyone talk about it!!!<P>Every time you start to feel "right" or think that your H is too "stubborn" - ask yourself what you are trying to control about him. If you are doing/saying or trying to get an angle on something so that you can achieve the right outcome with him...then you need to step back.<P>And don't expect results to happen quickly. That word EXPECT will bite you on the behind every single time. Part of letting go, is not expecting a specific outcome to occur. I think the biggest mistake I used to make was that I would become aware of a fault or LB habit of mine, and then do my best to change it. THEN I ended up hurt and angry at my H because he didn't respond to my self-correction the way I expected him to do. And then I'd give up and go back to my old ways.<P>You see, I was only changing as a method to control him, although it looked pretty virtuous on the surface. <P>Once I started letting go, and correcting MY part in the mess of our marriage because that wasn't who I wanted to be, and because I wanted to be a better person....thats when my Plan A started to stick. When it was about trying to force a specific reaction ... it failed every single time.<P>And for what it's worth, my plan A had it's desired effect. My H did dump his OW, and did ask to reconcile. He told me how much I had changed and how encouraging that was to him. I think under normal circumstances, we would have been started down the path to recovery. <P>Just realize though, that I started work on myself and taking responsiblity for my fault in our marriage long before my H ever moved out and became physical with his OW. His response to my changes to a LONG time - not because of anything I was doing wrong (well ok, I love busted a lot when he went to a PA) but because he had to work things out for himself in his own head.<P>Also, it took a long time to get this screwed up in your marriage. Undoing it and rebuilding trust will take awhile. Patience!! <P>Your H is confused, and you are the last person to be allowed to give him the answers. Because they would only be YOUR answers, not his. And he needs his own. So show him that you respect his right to choose his own path in life. <P>(((hugs))) BR<BR>