No change of heart buy throwing her heart. Think change of heart can only come through Plan B. Right now she has her cake and is eating it too. I am nothing but a cook, cleaner, babysitter, and unpaid whore to her. After last night I probably lost my whore job.

Think about it Bill, why she didnt leave. Because she didnt have a place to go, and even if she did, she didnt want to go. <P>Beware, she will use this against you for awhile.<P>IMO, it makes no difference that you unpacked it all. It just tells me that you say things you dont mean. (I do too)<BR>You told her to leave, and then unpacked her stuff.<P>Bill, WHAT is ityou want from her?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>No you lost your compusure and blew it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's hard to swallow. If the shoe fits wear it, right. I did lose it. I allowed myself to get caught up in the heat of the moment. It was almost like a fantasy. <P>Did I blow it? I guess we don't know that yet. If she were to realize that I am ready to let go some thoughts my come into her mind. I really don't think so though. <P>Honestly, Dara, I think that I could have walked on water in front of her and our outcome wouldn't of changed. All that I can do is work on me. Make me a better person. If she sees what she likes, who knows.<P>

"After last night I probly lost my unpaid whore job."<P>LOLOLOLOLOLOL<BR>ROTFLMAO

EVEN if you "walked" on water, you still through her out!!<P>And, she has been pissed at ya. Now I bet even more so. So what now for ya? How are you going to show her you want her and the marraige now?<P>I suspect she will be too pissed to even want to talk to ya now.<P>You said, work on your self and maybe she will like you. THATS NOT THE REASON to work on yourself BIll!! You know that too.

I'm sure that we'll both hold that night over each others head like a carrot for a while. <P>Dara, I wanted her to leave. I know that if I would have left that my girls would of paid the price. It would have hurt my case greatly or atleast that's what the atty advised me.<P>The only reason I unpacked her stuff is so that when the girls came upstairs in the morning that they wouldn't have seen her stuff everywhere. She is very good at manipulating and fabricating stories and that would of hurt me.<P>What do I want from her? I either want her to be my wife or to leave. That sounds pretty harsh and Monday I may see it differently, but that's me now.

No that's not the reason to work on myself. I want to work on myself for myself. I want to change aspects of my life that have been supressed for 12 years.

Perfectly understandable. I went throught the same thing too. He said he was leaving, cause he couldnt stand me. I got right in his face and said, NO! you are leaving because I told to you clean up your ****ty attitude or leave. I gave you the ultimatum, and a choice. <P>Why I did that I dont know. I certainly did not want him to leave though. <P>Is it getting easier for you to not like her? It is becoming that way for me. So many characteristics he show I cant stand. Arrogance and the like.<P>Its all part of letting go.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>I suspect she will be too pissed to even want to talk to ya now.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dara, she hasn't talked to me for a while. We don't talk on the phone during the day. She makes sure that she's out of the house during the evenings. An occasional walk is our only conversation. When we go places with the girls, I sit with the girls, and she sits away from me and sometimes the girls. <P>Did I do damage? Hell YES. I am sorry? Hell YES. What am I going to do about it? I haven't got a clue. <P>I am going to get ahold of mediator to see what needs to happen and how much. I am going to start getting listing of property for settlement. Dara, today I am really questioning if I have the ability to "save my marriage" and if I can't save it I need to start looking out for my best interests.<P>

Dont be so short-sighted Bill. Take things as they come ok? Right now you should not be trying to "save" your marraige. I thought you were working on yourself, loving her and giving her room.<P>Tough Love theory remember? <P>Do you think she will try to take you for everything? If not, I would not worry too much on property and asset division right now.. That will come when she leaves.<P>Calm down OK? I know, believe me, its easy to say. But you do have it in ya. I know you do.

Its all part of letting go.<P>When did I start letting go is the question. It didn't start last night. I think it started recently and last night just showed that I am starting to let go. Sad. Why did last night matter? I knew she was lieing and I couldn't let it go. Stroking my ego I guess. Maybe reassurring my thoughts.

Quit catching me in my own saying that's not fair . <P>She has stated very clearly what she wants and yes it is not fair. She doesn't want to take me to the cleaners but she will drop me off at the corner within walking distance.<P>Again, your right. Tough love. Work on myself for me. <p>[This message has been edited by LostHusband (edited April 28, 2001).]

No Bill. Last night to me did not show you were letting go. Because you cared that she was lying to you. And you couldnt let it go. And then you got so stinkin frustrated you threw her out!!<P>It shows that you still want her. Thats a good thing, but it may be hard for her to see that after last night.<P>Yes,I see myself letting go also. Ecspecially after this week. I've had several reasons to laugh, and enjoyed myself. Realized that there IS life out there after this mess. You know that too!!

So what are ya doing tonight?<P>Suggestion:<P>Go rent a movie. Pick up pizza. Tall her that you all have only a few weeks left together, lets spend some time together before you leave. If only just to leave the kids with some memories.<P>Tell her she can go and you will accept it. Because you cant change her mind, even though she is breaking your heart. Ask to spend some time with her as friends, for the benefit of both of you, and the kids.

Been there done all of that. Might do the movie thing though. It will probably end up just the girls and I. But who knows.<P>Well as always, Thank you. Thanks for the glimpse of reality that you gave me. Thanks for the smack on the side of the head that cleared my fog. I’m sorry that today was all about me. Hope that all is good for you this weekend. Hope your ribs feel okay. Hope that you’ve reconsidered your choice to tear out that carpet.<P>Oh yes Dara, there is life after this. Sometimes I don’t want to believe that. Everyday that goes by it does become clearer to me that I will be okay. I had a very enjoyable week. I had every emotion that a person can have this week. The greatest of these emotions was laughter. That’s something that I haven’t had in my marriage for a long time. I am a fun and funny person. No I don’t mean that I’m funny looking and I’M NOT GAY. <P>My family has told me how good of a person that I am. Until this week I didn’t believe them. Now I do. <P>Well I’ll wait around to read your response then I have to get back and cook supper. Thank you for being here. I was hoping that today would find you looking at this box. I owe ya one. <P>I’ll keep you in my prayers this weekend and look forward to typing to you on Monday.<P>Love, Bill<P>PS. Wish I could have stayed longer.<P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-

Well I have to get. So I’ll have to wait for Monday to see those words of wisdom that I’m sure were going to follow.

Oh Poor Bill,<P>Dont lose your head in this bud. You ARE a valuble person!! I am sorry it goes this way for ya. It made me feel bad what you said, that the movie will probly be just you and the girls, and you go home to cook. Does she interact AT ALL??????<P>Definitely gives me a reason to be thankful. Thanks for helping me see that. Where the hell is she all the time if she is only on call 2x/week? Have you considered pursueing full custody? I remember that statement you said about the oldest getting hair in funny places. I noticed my 11yo, about a year ago, startes having a little. Like a dark shadow there. I had a heart attack!!! OMG!! She still wears Barbie underwear!! She's too young!! What now, she wears pads attaches to her little Barbie underwear?<P>Thank goodness THAT hasnt happened yet. H wont even go into the bathroom with her anymore. The other day she asked him to hold her, so he picked her up and held her like a baby. I reminded him that his' little girl' has a bush and wears a 34 A! his jaw dropped. Its hard to believe how quick they grow up!!<P>My weekend has been non eventful. Going okay considering. Bedtime is hard for me. I can distract myself during the day, but when he lays next to me at night it is overwhelming how much I miss love and affection. His breath on my neck while we cuddle, all those little things couples take for granted after years pass.<P>Ha!! Just caught him over my shoulder reading this. I told him to take off, makes me feel uncomfortable as I type. Nothing to hide, just kinda weird to be watched.<BR>Hope you have a better night tonight. Monday I working till about 3pm. Cheer up!!<P>Your gonna make it!! What helps me to remember sometimes, is to think that this marraige doesnt NOT define me. I will live after its over. How I want to live is completely in my control. You know the answer. You dont want to spend the rest of your life regretting this divorce. So give it your best shot now. If ONLY, to not have regrets later on. Or to avoid feeling that you failed.<P>Do you go to church? Do you pray? <P>Let me share with you a story..<P>After I first found out, about a month laterI found out about the OW. A week passed, I was numb.. This is surreal. One day I called him when I knew he had few spare hours between classes.. I was hurting really bad. Asked him to come home. No, he said, and in my selk pity I believed that he would rather be with her. I couldnt get out of bed. I cried and cried, contemplated ending my life too. <P>The phone rang. A friend who I havent spoken to in years. All I could get out, through the tears was..Its Rick, Robin..She knew. I told her we were going to live together for a couple of years while he finished school. She warned me on that one, told me I would end up feeling lke his whore. At that point I was grateful he would stay. I could barely speak on the phone. She told me that God has a plan for me, Dara. He knew my name before I was even concieved. He loves me, more than Richard EVER did. That this divorce is not the end of me. God's shoulders are the biggest in the world to cry on. I prayed and repented. I felt absoloutely worthless. You know what? Everyday, it got easier. Everyday I could pray away my tears, and I would feel better. This divorce WAS not the end of ME. I am not defined by Richard's love, but by God's love. Psalm 91 got me through alot of rough moments. In time, little by little I got better. I began to change, for the better. You know what Bill? Whatever 'plans, or schemes' we have, to win back our spouses is ONLY control and manipulation. You cannot change her heart. Only GOd can. And he HATES divorce. So when she is getting out of control, you, yes you Bill, be the example. Keep your cool, and tell her you will pray for her. Get the girls together to pray for your marraige. "When two or more are gathered.."<P>Gain your strentgh through Jesus, and live by his example. Hard, if not impossible to do, but you can TRY. And you know what? You will feel so much better about yourself. This is my struggle Bill. Read John 14, the book of love. Dont skim it, absorb it. Live it. Pray, and ask forgiveness. If you have a sincere heart while you pray, and seek forgiveness, God will answer your prayers. And keep praying to soften her heart. <P>Keep your head up Bill. I really want to see you make it through this with a level head. Cause if you can do it after she leaves, so can I. You will be going through the same as me in June, but I will be leaving. I dont EVEN know how I will even get on the highway that day.<P>Well, write me back, and I'll respond to ya on Monday.<BR>Take care,<BR>Dara

SO what the heck is up with the gay thing?<P>I said it ONCE. Didnt even say it. Asked which tree you swing from. A joke. Did it bother you that much? I am sorry if it did. Or are you just teasing me with continuing it? If so VERY funny.<P>(((((Bill)))))<BR>Dara<BR>

Dara, <P>First off, no the swinging tree did not offend me in the least and yes I have been teasing you. I hope that you did not take offense. Let me take a moment to explain. As you know Lisa was 16 and I was 18 when we got married. Just like any good wife, she made me breakfast in bed the morning after our wedding. The pancakes could bounce and I don’t remember which was burnt worse the bacon or the toast. From that day on I was the cook. Further I do all the ironing and a lot of the laundry along with other housework items. I’ve hand sewed many of our girls’ baton costumes. I find relaxation in these things, especially cooking. For many years Lisa would brag about these things to everyone and then when we would get home she would say something like “If we ever split up your going to be gay”. These were laughed at for a while then while she was talking to her friends she would say “Billy is making the girls’ baton costumes, I think that someday he’s going to be gay”. I’m sure that these things were Lisa’s attempt at humor but they started to hurt. I stopped doing some of these things and watched as the house went to crap, couldn’t live like that so went right back. Added to all of this, I have always been the emotional one in our relationship. Like you, I am the one that misses the feel of holding the one you love. Again, no offense taken, I was just kidding around.<P>Saturday night after I made supper we did watch a movie and yes it was just the girls and I. Right now she doesn’t interact at all. Sure she plans birthday parties and then spends the entire time on the phone. She hasn’t always been this way. Saddest thing is that last night our 11 year old daughter Jessica asked if we could have “family night” tonight. She wanted us all to watch a movie together. I said that would be great ask your mom, she asked and was told that “right now it’s best that mom and dad aren’t together”. Lisa told Jessica that we could all do something outside but then Lisa wasn’t available all evening long. So again I spent the time playing with the girls. Jessica didn’t say anything but you could see the hurt in her eyes. Around bed time Jessica was crying, Lisa saw this, but I was the one who comforted her.<P>Should I go for full custody? I don’t think so at this point but I’m keeping that open as an option. Lisa was a wonderful mother. I so was because obviously lately she has been distant. She says that she keeps busy and stays away to avoid seeing me. She doesn’t realize the hurt that it is causing the children. I hope that once we are separated that her motherly instincts will take back control of the alien who hates me. I will tell you that if we are unable to mediate our own divorce and end up going to court, then we will have a battle. I have been advised that I could get full custody. <P>Don’t even get me started on this whole puberty issue. My daughter and I have a very close and open relationship. I tell you one thing, the first time she said “Daddy, I’ve got three hairs down there” I just about crapped my pants. Daddy’s don’t want to see their little angels grow up. She also teases her mom that her boobs are almost bigger than mom’s. Let’s just say that the booby fairy forgot to stop a Lisa’s house. When I went to school there were only two girls in the sixth grade that even had boobs. Now I see fourth graders bigger than my wife. Not even to mention the thirteen year olds that look like they’re twenty. My biggest fear right now is that Jessica will start her period when her mom’s not around. That’s a hard one for a dad to deal with.<P>Yes I do go to church and I pray many times daily. Last week I went for a walk and gave all my problems to God. I felt and still do feel much relief from that talk I had with the Lord. Since that conversation I have come to see things in a different light. Will I have regrets? Sure. I will regret that we got to the point of no return before I saw the problems. Do I believe I’ve failed? For a long time I did but now I don’t. I do think that I have given 110% to this woman and that she has chosen not to accept it. I will walk away from this secure in the knowledge that I have fought the good fight. On the day that Lisa and I stand before our Creator I know that I will have safe passage into His kingdom. Lord have mercy on her soul for she does not understand what she has done.<P>I think it was Saturday you asked if I have given up. In my heart I will not give up until the final drop of the gavel, but in my brain, reality tells me that it is over. She is hell bent on leaving, rewriting history, and not even open to the possibility of “us”. I will cherish everyday that the Lord let me have with her and I know without a doubt that when her “fog” lifts that she will be miserable. I will pray for her.<P>My goodness, can you say ramble?<P>So anyway, kids had a track meet this weekend. I figured it was going to last from about 9-11. We live in a really small town. Put on my shorts and tank top to expose this white body to that “Orange Thingy”. Well meet got over at 3:30. I think that I have discovered a new shade of red. OUCH!!!! Played coed flag football this weekend as well. I really enjoyed except when my shorts got pulled down to my ankles. Spent a lot of time with the girls this weekend playing games, watched a movie, played at the park, and they even got me on a skate board. I don’t think I’ve been on one for 20 years. It’s not quite as easy as it used to be.<P>Thank you and I will keep my head up. I’ve noticed that I have been walking a lot taller lately. So how was work today? Did you give any “infections” today? I would ask about enemas but I don’t think that I really want to know. Do your children do a lot of activities? <P>Well I believe this is long enough for now. I may post later if I can think of anything to say. Hope you have a good evening. Type to ya tomorrow.<P>((((Dara))))<P>Bill<BR> <P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-

Dara.<P>I forgot to tell you about the conversations I had with my 9 year old (Myki) this weekend. She is the one who is just like her dad. While we were skate boarding she asked me “How many days until June 1st ?”. Immediately I was crushed because I knew why she was asking. I told her how many days and asked her why she wanted to know. She replied “Mom said that she wasn’t moving anything until that day”. I prepared her a little by saying that it may be a little earlier than that. School gets out on May 23rd and I think that Lisa may try to move as soon as schools out. <P>Later that evening while the kids and I were playing “Trouble” Myki asked if I would ever get married again. OUCH!!!! I wanted to say me and your mom will work things out or just no. I simply replied that I don’t know yet but I think that some day I may. She was satisfied with the answer and the game went on. Some of these questions are so hard to answer.<P>Tried country music again today and that didn’t work. The second song I heard was “A Bad Goodbye” by Clint and Wynonna. Just didn’t feel right. Back to the 80’s rock.<P>Should have a pleasant evening tonight. Oldest daughter has a band concert at 7:00. I won’t see Lisa until then. Going to do a little reading tonight, want to get back into my writing, and start looking at property agreement.<P>OK, this day has been far too serious for me. Time for a good joke:<P>REVENGE IS SWEET<P>There are two statues in a park; one of a nude man and one of a nude woman. They had been facing each other across a pathway for a hundred years, when one day an angel comes down from the sky and, with a single gesture, brings<BR>the two to life.<P>The angel tells them, "As a reward for being so patient through a hundred blazing summers and dismal winters, you have been given life for thirty minutes to do what you've wished to do the most."<P>He looks at her, she looks at him, and they go running behind the shrubbery. The angel waits patiently as the bushes rustle and giggling ensues. After fifteen minutes, the two return, out of breath and laughing.<P>The angel tells them, "Um, you have fifteen minutes left. Would you care to do it again?" He asks her, "Shall we?" She eagerly replies, "Oh, yes, let's! But let's change positions. This time I hold the pigeon down and you crap on<BR>its head!"<P> Of course that's what they did, what were you thinking?<P>Have a good evening!!!!<P>Bill<BR>