One day the love of my life asked me to become his wife. He invited me into his life , to be a part of his life, for the rest of life. I envisioned becoming "one" as the most romantic prospects I could ever imagine.<P> However, I soon began to sense that he enjoyed the benefits of having a wife, including wonderful and enthusiastic love-making, scruptuous meals (I have a B.S. degree in Home Economics and have a reputation with family and friends for my cooking), foot massages, an attractive mate to walk by his side in public, someone his family thought a great deal of, someone to cuddle and snuggle with, someone to do his laundry and clean the house,but whenever it seemed as though I were requiring extra costs other than what he was used to during his bachelor years, I felt more like a burden than like a wife that he promised to love and care for.<P>He complained about the beauty products I used, the hosiery I needed, and other everyday items that are just a part of mundane life. He began keeping rigid control of our finances so that I couldn't really spend anything other than a small allowance that he would dole out each week.<BR> <BR> We both earn income, yet I had very little input. That is why I feel as though he wanted all the "better" regarding marriage, but not the "worse", let alone putting out just a litte extra for his bride.<P> Because of these uneasy feelings, we decided to establish separate checking accounts to allieviate unpleasant disagreements. However, HE decided that the monthly expenses would be divided 50/50 even though he earns more than twice what I earn. Furthermore, the house we live in is in his name only (he had me sign a waiver negating any interest on my part in the home), yet he insists that I pay half of the mortgage payment each month. That wouldn't be so bad, but I incurred a modest medical bill that he agreed upon and was aware of prior to our marriage, but now says that that is my sole responsibility to pay back. Now rather than be able to have a litte discretionary income at the end of the month, I have nothing left for savings or otherwise, while he is able to store up a vast savings each month because he earns so much more. When I tried to approach him about working out a more equitable and fair plan, he refused to discuss it. <P> I now have a second income by working evenings and one week-end day part-time. He said he did not want me apart from him in the evenings. In response I suggested that he take care of the greater portion of some of the monthly expenses to make things more fair. He did not answer, but his actions spoke volumns. Basically, he would rather I maintain two careers and be gone in the evenings rather than have to negotiate away any more of his money. I have to face the truth. The wedding ring belongs around his bank account. Any advice? <P>[This message has been edited by greeder (edited 02-23-99).]<P>[This message has been edited by greeder (edited 03-01-99).]<p>[This message has been edited by greeder (edited October 05, 1999).]

Greeder,<p>Yeah, I've got advice. Counseling. It's unlikely that he'll go, so you should start. <p>You should get "Give and Take" from this site. It sounds like your marriage has been pretty dysfunctional in the area of finanaces: this book will address this area as well as others.<p>A marriage is about interdependence. And it's pretty clear that you two are doing much "separate". That's really very unhealthy for your marriage. Again, I'd suggest that you address it, with a counselors help.

K, So, now you know my story. Thank you once again for your response. Counselling is an excellent idea, but is only as good as the one who wants to hear it. My husband has been so busy protecting his own interests that the wall he has built to do it has been done so with me on the outside, not on the inside. Because of his unwillingness to be open to any type of negotiation I have bigger choices to make other than how I am going to pay for a house that I do not own. Know what I mean?

I know what you mean, greeder:<p>You feel that you're being taken advantage of, and that you're not going to stand for it anymore...<p>Divorce is certainly an option for you. But it's the last one I'd suggest. I'm going to strongly suggest that YOU do the marriage counseling. Becuase I'm pretty sure that you're not perfect, and there's plenty that you could be doing to make your marriage better.<p>And what's more, YOU can't force your husband to change. You can influence him by learning the techniques here and applying them religiously, but YOU are responsible for your own actions.<p>So again, I suggest counseling. Start identifying and eliminating "lovebusters" on your side of the marriage. Learn about the POJA, and start applying it as often as you can, even if you're doing it "one-sidedly". That would mean "never benefit at your husband's expense". <p>I really suggest that you work very hard at this marriage for a while. You probably have been trying, but the "tools" that MarriageBuilders provides are skills that you may not have learned. Give this some time. If you are unsuccessful after a period (6-12 months), then I'd suggest that you would probably need a separation. But all this should be done under the supervision of a qualified counselor (which I'm not).<p>Search for my story on this site, greeder. I spent a long time in counseling with Steve Harley while my wife was having an affair (and not attending counseling). We now have a marriage that is much better than it ever was. It takes effort and determination, but you'd be amazed atthe results.<p>Good luck.

suggestion talk to a divorce laweryer to see what monetarty benifits you would be entiled to if you left. I believe you would get much more then you think including some of the houde if you are paying for half of it it is half of your property regardless of the wavier before. Once he asked you to pay for half the wavier became void. Once you have the knowledge go back to him and bargain from a postion of strength not weakness. Your husband sounds like a spoiled child who takes his ball and goes home when the game isn't going his way. Get the knowledge you need and use it.

Good Morning to Whoever is reading this today. The "plot thickened" over the weekend. After working my second job all day Sunday, I arrived home to find a disgruntled husband who it seems resents my earning extra income that he has no control over. If you read my entry above, you may understand his mindset regarding money matters. Now that we have established separate checking accounts and are each paying 50% of the bills, the extra income he sees me earning makes him uneasy. In our discussion (which really was not a discussion) he is now demanding that I close my personal account and start acting like a wife. What does he mean? What is he really saying?<p>I am very family oriented. I graduated from college with a degree in Home Economics so I could be the best at my chosen career - a wife and mother. Nothing is more important than meeting the needs of my husband. Should I do as he asks? And if I do have I succumbed to merely being a puppet on strings and not a wife at all?

Greeder,<p>I'll reiterate the advice I gave you previously.<p>1. Counseling<p>2. Buy His Needs/Her Needs, Give and Take, and Lovebusters with your newfound income.<p>I suggest you look at the sections on this website regarding the Policy of Joint Agreement, and on how to negotiate. You need to come up with a solution where you both "win" in this: if you need more spending money and he needs more time with you, there are obvious solutions. It may be more complicated than that, but in essence, you both need to learn how to negotiate.<p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Nothing is more important than meeting the needs of my husband. Should I do as he asks? And if I do have I succumbed to merely being a puppet on strings and not a wife at all?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Your first statement is false. Meeting your husbands needs is not all important. Especially when your needs aren't being met, and you're being treated with disrespect. What you're finding out in this marriage is that love is NOT UNCONDITIONAL: that there are conditions required for being "in love", and that your husband isn't doing a terrific job in that department. That may go both ways, too, BTW.<p>The books I've recommended have a ton of information in them. I suggest that you order them today, read them (and share them with your husband), and then try to put some of the concepts into your marriage (perhaps with a counselor directing you).<p>I also suggest that you do "nothing" until you've addressed the problem.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited 02-22-99).]<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited 02-22-99).]

I would love nothing more than to negotiate and come to an enthusiastic agreement with my husband on this matter . However, I am unable to express my feelings and concerns because the moment they begin to counter any opinion of his, the conversation/discussion is over. My attempts at any further discussion are met with anger and verbal commands to "be quiet", period. I am left with no recourse than to do just that. He uses threats of ending our marriage to force me into doing what he wants me to do. So, the Policy of Joint Agreement which I have read and studied, as wonderful as it may be, cannot, at this point, be utilized. I have studied all of the material on Dr. Harley's web site, as well as followed a week's worth of radio broadcasts where he was the guest speaker on "Truths That Transform" with Dr. James Kennedy. I would love to be able to be sweet and happy and just simply talk over things. Each day he repeats the same thing, "We wouldn't have any problems if you'd just act like a wife and just listen to me. I am the head of this household and you need to follow me and do what I say." It is hard to be treated in an unloving way and still be able to respond properly. As long as I do what he wishes, we have smooth sailing. The moment I try to express my true opinions or feelings, he goes right back to the above quote. K - What did you mean when you said to do "nothing"?<p>

K - I searched for your story on this site, but was unable to locate it. Any help?

Greeder:<p>A summary of my story is here: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/001407.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/001407.html</A> , about 15 posts down.<p>I understand the position that you're in, and that's why I strongly urge you to consider counseling with Steve Harley at Marriage Builders. I would rather you talk to him for advice than me: I think your situation dictates it.<p>Simply put, if your husband continues treating you in that autocratic manner, he'll be alone: you'll either have an affair or leave him permanently. But as much as we can say "he's to blame"; you can't change him. You can change yourself. Again, I suggest Steve as your "coach" for this.<p>When I say "do nothing", that means that I would continue with your second job. I would also start having honest dialogues with your husband when he starts complaining: remember NO LOVEBUSTERS, and try to follow the POJA's intent (never profit at your spouse's expense). As you discuss things with him, use the "lingo" here, and explain it to him (careful not to be "disrespectful"). It will take a LOT longer if he's not on board with counseling, but you can teach him how to negotiate fairly, how to listen, how to use the POJA, how to meet your needs...<p>Please call Steve. He's a bargain compared to the divorce or years of unhappiness that you're heading towards.

K - I need to be more specific about the urgency of my making some kind of determination or choice regarding my spouse's latest demand. Just this morning he asked that I not come home today until I closed my bank account or he would not hesitate to see a divorce attorney and file for divorce tomorrow. Although I am a fairly strong individual emotionally, the extreme ups-and-downs are hard to keep up with. Just this morning he decided to become "very friendly" at about 4:30 a.m. and expressed interest in staying married, once again, our happiness based on my wifely compliance. So, I would love to have some more direct immediate input on how I should handle this demand as time does not allow for a counselling session with Steve Harley.

Greeder:<p>I'll tell you how ***I*** would handle this. I am not ***you***. And let me preface a bit.<p>I'm guessing that "wifely submission" to him is not your idea of a satisfying marriage, and that you're going to have problems in this area if this were to continue. So my inclination is to call his bluff: if HE wants a divorce (and would be so quick to do it), I think your marriage is doomed no matter what.<p>I would come home to him, and tell him that you didn't do close out the account. And that you WILL NOT listen to him making one-sided demands. Print out "The Policy of Joint Agreement" from this site, and give it to him and let him know that THIS is the way you would like your marriage to work. Ask him to please read it and then discuss it with you after he's done. Print out the "Lovebusters" categories (and the questionnaire); he's certainly full of extreme selfish demands. Have that as backup.<p>He's likely to blow-up at this confrontation, and threaten and yell and whine. Do not respond to that with "lovebusters". Just insist that you would really like to make your marriage work, and when he's ready to discuss this, that you'd be more than willing. If he threatens you with divorce tomorrow, I'd respond:<p>"That's not what I want. I'm ready to seriously work on this marriage, but I need you to be involved too. If you feel divorce is the only option, then you do what you need to do. I married you because I loved you, and you're not helping my feelings of love towards you with this anger, selfishness, and disrespect"<p>Do not agree to sign anything. If he's really THAT serious and you receive papers tomorrow, I suggest that you find an attorney to protect your interests (including the house, which is probably half yours regardless of what you signed).<p>I'm assuming that he's never been physically abusive towards you. If he is physically abusive, don't go home. You can do this over the phone, but I wouldn't even let him know where you are.<p>I didn't realize that things were so close to a head. I still strongly recommend that you get counseling soon!

Thank you, K. The direction you offered seems very sound and right. I am already preparing myself emotionally for the outcome. He tends to be so egocentric that he will most likely follow through with his threat. He would rather married life go as he chooses or not at all. I do not understand. My sister-in-law has been privy to this. After hearing so much negative about how I could be a much better wife, she encouraged me by saying I was a dream-wife that anyone would love to have, meaning appearance, demeanor, homemaking abilities. Why would he do anything to threaten his own future happiness? I covet your prayers. Tonight will be interesting.

I will pray for you. And I agree with your SIL: you are willing to be this man's "wife-of-his-dreams". He needs to realize for that to happen, it will take some effort on his part to become the "husband-of-your-dreams". Again, I suggest you be strong in your approach to him, but reiterate your desire to work on the marriage.<p>In regards to your fear of divorce, I cannot fathom anyone (even an egomaniac) divorcing "on-the-spot" like you are insinuating he will. I sincerely hope that it doesn't come to that.<p>Good luck and God Bless.

K - I carefully followed the plan of action as outlined yesterday. <p>The question, "Did you close your account?" was my greeting when I arrived home yesterday. I calmly told him I did not close my account, and that I was not willing to listen to his one-sided demands. I then proceeded to share with him The Policy of Joint Agreement and had the print-out handy. He did as you predicted. He became angry, took the print-out, tore it in half, and tossed it on the coffee table. As he stormed out of the room, he said that he was tired of me not acting like a wife and that I may be served divorce papers at work. When I asked him how he thought a wife should act he just continued on out of the room, completely ignoring me. Not many more words were exchanged except for a call I placed to him after I arrived at work this morning. I pulled up this page on my computer screen and almost verbatum repeated the paragraph, "That's not what I want...". I quickly ended the conversation before any hurtful dialog could start up so he could ponder these things I have told him. It is comforting to be able to have some sound input. It seems to be working. Thank you for praying for me. I am sure that he has not given up on his demand though, so I am not sure what tomorrow holds. <p> <p>

Greeder,<p>Well, I was "hoping" for a better outcome, but I'm not surprised at all.<p>Again, I suggest that you put a call into Steve Harley to schedule counseling: I think you'll benefit from it.<p>My advice to you is to continue dealing with your husband in a loving, compassionate, respectful manner. In other words, no lovebusters. But again, you should not meet any DEMANDS. Refuse to consider them until he can learn to negotiate with the (now torn up) POJA.<p>My guess is that he will be somewhat confused: he's going to be confronted with a "defiant" wife, but one who is acting in a loving, respectful manner. Clearly that isn't the way he works. He wants something, and he'll use lovebusters to get it (is this the way his parents act, BTW??). If and when he is ready to listen and negotiate (on ANY issue), you want to reinforce that behavior by making it pleasant and (hopefully) successful (but don't give into demands under the pretense of negotiation).<p>Bottom line: it's very destructive behavior to punish your spouse to try to get your way. The POJA (and the other MarriageBuilder principles) reinforce the need to find "win-win" solutions to all your issues. It doesn't mean that you have to agree on everything, but it does mean that you should never feel as though your spouse is taking advantage of you.<p>Again, I wish you the best of luck. Keep us posted.

K - Thank you for your best wishes. I will keep you posted.

K - I received a call not long ago from my husband with the demand once again to close my account today. He said he would give me one more chance to show that I cared about our marriage. He also gave me a breakdown of the bills that he says I owe (50/50). When he allowed me to have my own checking account, it was with demands also. He stated, "You can have your own account, but you will pay 50% of all the bills plus you will pay for your own medical bill." When I tried to open the floor up for discussion to come to a more fair and equitable solution, he said, "End of discussion." I stated that I did not have an opportunity for any input and could we please discuss the matter. He said, "NO". So, I have gone along with his plan, even though I feel it is unfair. I am struggling to pay the bills, while he is sailing right along because he earns twice+ what I do. <p> I receive my paycheck today and he is waiting anxiously for the 50% he feels he should receive from me. I do want to contribute to our household expenses, but should I struggle each week eking out an existance while my husband is perfectly capable of providing the greater share of our family needs? Are there any principles I could apply that may help me decide whether I should go along with his dictates for how our finances are being handled? This week I have lived on $12.00 (for car fuel and my own food) I have $0.00 savings. If it weren't for my company, which gives the perk of being able to take $10.00 out on loan for cash on hand, I wouldn't have made it through the week. <p>He asked me to be his wife, yet he treats me like a roommate because it benefits him to do so. I picked out the lovely home we now live in, but he made me sign a waiver to keep my name off of the title, yet wants me to pay one half of the mortgage payment. When I pose the idea that this does not seem right, (for two reasons: 1)I am his wife and he should be happy to have the responsibility of providing a home for me. 2)Paying half of something he made a point that I have no part in is not equitably fair.) his response is "Well, you live here don't you?" <p> I will have my paycheck in hand today. What to do... <p>[This message has been edited by greeder (edited 02-23-99).]

Greeder,<p>I was hoping that your descretionary income was a little higher than $12/week. <p>My advice:<p>1. Every time he gives you a demand, I would reiterate that you are his wife: you married him for love, and you're losing that love for him everytime he makes a demand. <p>2a. The issue of paying for the bills is sticky---you previously agreed to 50/50, even though it was under "duress". I suggest that you figure out how much money you need (including savings if you need to), and then give what's left to him, letting him know that this is what you can afford.<p>2b. This is more risky. Under the policy of Joint Agreement, I could suggest that you give him NOTHING, and suggest to him that you renegotiate the finances, using the POJA. I think this will be a direct confrontation, and I'm not sure that I would advise it. The MarriageBuilders concepts center around making sure that you're not taking advantage of your spouse, and you want to avoid doing anything that he'll perceive as "unfair" (although that appears to be an impossible task).<p>Guess what: regardless of which directoin you choose, my gues is that he's going to get angry again. These issues seem to boil down to money and control. His need for control seems to be very out-of-proportion to what would be considered normal. I guess that you need to reiterate your intrinsic "value" to him as your wife: if he doesn't believe that you are worth his monetary and emotional expendatures, then his choice would seem to be clear (divorce). I'm not sure how YOU can get that across to him in a tone that isn't confrontational or disrespectful, but that's apparently what it's going to come to.<p>Another bit of advice: you can talk to Dr. Harley "free" on his call-in radio show at 2 pm CST. You might want to pose some of these issues to the "source".

K - Thank you for the reply. The prognosis is not too hopeful, is it? It is rather hurtful to realize my worth to him (not enough).