<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostHusband:<BR><B>Dara,<P>I'll read that post tomorrow a.m. <P>If prostitution is the oldest profession than I think that "I love you but I'm not in love with you" is the oldest speech. They say it so well. What really pisses me off about my situation is that there is no real reason. There's no drugs, alcohol, abuse, or affairs. There is nothing that can't be fixed. Our girls deserve a happy two parent home. <P>What really amazes me about this board is how my wife (WS) acts so much like those who have had affairs. But after a conversation that we had last week I truly believe in my heart that has never been another and of course I (MR MORALITY) have never been unfaithful.<P>I've got to sign off for the day so hope to visit with you tomorrow. Have a good evening and don't forget to smile, even if only for a moment. It will make you feel better.<P>Bill<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When you do a search for another sad story it shows Gnome de plume as auther on the search criteria.<P>Oh Bill!<P>She sounds like all the other WS who have<BR>had affairs you said. Well has she? Open your eyes Bill? My H would have never done that either. His quote "You only cheat yourself with an affair."<P>And guess what Bill?<P>I had an affair. But I love him and want him. Do I, Dara, sound like every other WS who had an affair?<P>My money says no.<P>There are exceptions to every rule Bill.I had a "condoned" affair, and still love him. He never got over "it". Found someone else to meet his needs. Now he is the one screwing around.<P>Go figure.<P>Dara<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>He WAS feeling guilty over what I told him, I saw it in his eyes. Said that I wanted to take "everything" from him incuding his peace of mind. If I cant have him I will be sure to destroy him. Helloooo? He is doing this himself. Just cant face the guilt. He has candy coated everything. Do you really think I am such a screw uo Gnome? I am trying as hard as I can here. Faced everyday with this pain as you were too.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dara, you are correct that your husband is destroying his <I>own</I> peace of mind. And whether or not you are screwing up depends entirely on what you want to accomplish. Was it a bad thing for you to tell your husband so pointedly that what he was doing was wrong? Not necessarily. It's important for him to recognize this. However, in <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0310606314/o/qid=988061333/sr=8-3/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/107-2400924-3815703" TARGET=_blank>Changes That Heal</A>, Dr. Henry Cloud pointed out that healing requires three ingredients: grace, truth, and time. Your husband is not getting a lot of grace from you right now. If he is to heal, where else is going to get it? (I think you have a pretty good idea where he's <I>trying</I> to get it, but that source tends to block out truth.) If you carry through with your plans, you're running short on time. Truth alone is not going to cut it.<P>I don't doubt that you are trying hard, but <I>what</I> are you trying? What do you hope to accomplish?<P>I'm going to say it again: what I believe you need to work on is <I>empathy</I>. It will help <I>you</I>, and it will help your husband.<P>What does your husband get from the OW that he doesn't get from you? (Forget the "feelings" part of it. Your husband "feels" love for her, but he doesn't "feel" love for you. That's mere addiction, and while he needs to deal with it, it's only a byproduct of what's important.) What does the OW want from your husband? How does your husband feel about his kids being taken far away? How does he feel about his schooling? How does he feel about himself?<P>Will he talk to you? Can you listen to him while holding your own judgments and defensive reactions in abeyance, in order that you might <I>understand</I> him?<P>I'm going <I>way, way</I> out on a limb here, but I wonder what would have happened if you and your husband, and the OW and her husband had <I>all</I> became friends instead of the OW and the husband having developed this insular relationship? What would happen if your husband's two separate worlds collided now? What strange misunderstandings are floating around in everyone's minds? It sounds as if your husband has attempted to behave honorably in spite of his emotional turmoil, and I wonder what the OW really thinks of all this. Does she understand the concept of an EA? Has she fallen into this mess without realizing what has happened to herself, to your husband, and to you? What has your husband told her about you? Has he met <I>her</I> husband?<P>I'm not trying to suggest that you set up a confrontation. All I'm saying is that there are more points of view to consider than your own, and the more you understand - the more you <I>care</I> to understand - of these other perspectives, the better equipped you will be to deal with the situation, both emotionally and strategically.<P>If you merely try to control your <I>reactions</I> to your husband, or if you just try to beat into your husband truths about his actions and about your feelings, you are not likely to get very far (or, more precisely, you are likely to get as far as Texas, lonely and alone). You need to take an <I>active</I> interest in <I>him</I> for his own's sake.<P><I>After</I> you've done that, you <I>might</I> find that there's nothing you can do. Because it's not all <I>about</I> you. Really it's not. It just <I>feels</I> like it, and it hurts like hell. But if you give up on your husband <I>before</I> you know what's going on, you will be plagued with regret on top of the pain.<P>One of the purposes of "Plan A" is to prevent that.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>When its over, do you think of how good you feel after, or do you really sit there and speculate on what it meant to her. <P>Just take things as they come, and enjoy the moment. It makes YOU feel good, so let it be at that. If it is just A f*** to her, than SHE is the one losing, not you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><I>And I can't make you love me if you don't<BR>You can't make your heart feel something that it won't<BR>Here in the dark in these final hours<BR>I will lay down my heart<BR>And I feel the power<BR>But you won't, no you won't</I><BR>- George Michael<BR>

Gnome,<P>...and they made fun of me when I quoted Barry Manilow <P>Prolific words though...

Dara,<P>Do I think she has had an affair and are my eyes open? No I don’t think she has had an affair and yes I believe that my eyes are open. In some sick way I was kinda hoping that she had an affair. I thougth that would make it easier to quit. Let me tell you about a walking/argument that we had last Wednesday. I accused her of having an affair, stating that is the only thing that makes any of this make any sense. Further saying that everybody I’ve talked to thinks she’s having an affair and in all the books I’ve read she sounds like she’s having an affair.<P>Dara, when I made those accusations I was met with such passion and emotion. She stated that she never has and never would because she does have that much respect for our marriage and family. She begged me to believe her. She cried out and reached for me to comfort her asking that I trust her. She said that she really feels bad about the situation. She asked me how do you think I feel knowing that you would walk through fire for me and I can’t do the same. She said I want to feel that way, I want to be able to worship you and kiss your feet like you will do for me. She said I don’t know how. I replied, crying of course, that’s what I want to work on. Let’s get us some help to see if we can love each other like you want. She stated that she was scared, she couldn’t see anything helping us, and that she does not want to go on like this. I asked that if she ever saw a glimmer of hope, please stop this and let’s get some help.<P>Dara, I saw a side of her that I have never seen in our twelve years together that night. Could it of been an act of a guilty person? I guess so, but if it was she deserves an Oscar. I truly do not believe there has been anybody else.<P>I believe that she has a lot of problems from her childhood that have carried over into adulthood. I don’t think that she is living in reality right now. I believe that she is making a HUGE mistake that will cost her dearly. Dara I hate to say this, but after our divorce is final there will not be another chance. I will move on. I will not go through this for a third time. I can only pray that by some miracle that it will not go through.<P>Please ask me any questions that you want about my relationship or about the working of the small male brain. Hopefully, we can help each other. I know that in some of your posts you have stereotyped male behavior, but let me tell you we are not all like that. Don’t lose all confidence in the male gender of our specie. There are a couple of good fish in the sea. Men that still have principles and morality. There are some of us who still hold our woman up on that pedestal. My wife knows how deep my love and respect are for her but for some reason she wishes to jump from that pedestal. I hope that I can catch her. But if I can’t I must let her go into that situation that I know will make her less happy, less loving, and with all of the stress that she will face she will probably be less of a mother. God, those words hurt to say. <P>I only have one month and six days left before she leaves. I am scared to death. I just wish I knew what to do to stop this from happening. <P>Love, Bill<BR><P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-

"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."<P>I was afraid that you would refuse to see that there may be another man. It would make sense. I am glad that you answered it for yourself. No it is not "sick" to kinda wish that there was another man. Then you could put a name and face on this to blame and understand her reasoning more. Your enemy, which is losing her, would be visible. My H says that he was going to leave me even before he met her. In some way I believe that he wasnt happy, but I still blame her. She enabled him to do it. Last night he told me that she is leaving her husband too. And that she understands all that he is going through.<P>And they ARE NOT stupid enough to mess around while married or pursue each other right after divorce. That tells me that they have agreed to wait awhile. I told him it does not take the Pope to know these things. You dont have to be a rocket scientist or some one of very high moral stamdards to know its wrong to mess around while married and to know that you shouldnt jump into a relationship right leaving one. And the fact that he has spoken these things to her, and they both agree, I told him that it must mean that they are planning to get together. "The right way."<P>Blech, double Blech!!!<P>We find comfort talking to others who are going through the same Bill. This is part of the purpose of this board. We wouldnt come here everyday, as I do if it didnt feel good. Imagine two people going through this, talking face to face everyday. The compassion and empathy is exchanged. They start meeting each others needs. They both see it, like it but know its wrong. So they rationalize. We wont do anything dishonorable while married, and we will give each other time after the divorce. <P>He told me she called last Sunday because her husband left and she needed to talk to him. Poor thing. These WS sure do go through alot. She is probably to blind to see that because of her I have virtually no hope at gaining my husbands love again. She is just his friend. Bull****!!<P>I dont understand this at all. I told him if he gets involved with her after I leave he will never see the kids again. Because I know he will not travel down there to see them, and I will not allow them to come back to visit with his GF. That of all the things we have shared financially, he offered me 25% less than state required min. for child support, and every other truck payment for one year. Never mind hoome equity, his pension, all of our debts (which mostly arer in my name) and alimony. I will walk out with 35K in debt(mostly my truck), and three children to care for. He has our home, about 2K of debt and no promise of future support. My father pointed these things out to me yesterday. Said its about time I took of my rose colored glasses. At first I was just going to leave and not even ask for child support, so that he can get through school. What a joke I've been told. All in the hope that he will want me again.<P>I told him yesterday that I am getting an attorney. I couldnt work yesterday because he did not show up, he thought I was off , but I could ahve worked at three but he wouldnt answer his phone to know that. One class on Monday's. He came home at 4:30 and I asked where he has been all day, knowing full well it was with her. None of your business I was told. OK!! Hard way here. I need to look out for my financial well-being. I will get an attorney. You have a GF, you will not see the kids anymore. They wont be around that crap.<P>He started to get angry, then later came and asked me what he needs to do. HUH? I thought he was talking about our marraige, giving it a go. But he was asking what he needs to do to prevent losing the kids, even if it meant staying with me. I said nothing, just let me love you. Hard to believe he said. Then went on to say he didnt think he could drop the OW. <P>He is miserable. I told him this AM believe it or not I want you to be happy. It seems that he is dying inside. I only want him to give us a shot, but more importantly because he wants to. He said than leave please. Give him time away from all this. But I am afraid of losing you for good. Once you turn a corner with her I dont want you back. He said all I can tell you is to try. Dont be afraid. Move to TX, and I will try he said.<P>So what the hell does all that mean? I am losing my mind here trying to figure this all out. Is there a chance between us if I leave? Or does that just get me out of his hair. And he moves on with OW.<P>I feel like I am gambling. With my type A personality, I like concrete things. Not left open to chance and circumstance.<P>I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to stay here. Not if I want my marraige. He needs time and space. Without pressure. To know that if he reaches for me it is because he wants to, not because I asked him to.<P>Make sense?<P>Dara

Dara,<P>Caught me with my own saying. Thank you so much for the dose of reality. I've always pointed that saying to my wife, she refuses to see what she has in front of her (me), the damage that will be done, and that she will have to make sacrifices in her life because of her situation. I've never turned that around on myself. I do need to be open to the idea of another man. You are so right, it makes sense. I'm going to keep exploring this issue within myself.<P>They are getting together "The right way", that is such bull****. No matter how you cut they are getting together, while leaving a path of destruction behind them. <P>I don't know if there is a chance if you leave. There doesn't seam to be much of a chance if you stay either. Let's look at both sides:<P>You Leave and go to the Lone Star State:<BR>A. He keeps fooling around, writes you and the kids off. You divorce is now more complicated because of the miles between you.<P>B. After fooling around a while the reality hits him. He then rejoins his family with a loving embrace and real commitment to you.<P>You Stay:<BR>A. He keeps fooling around and the whole process just gets dragged out. You and kids suffer. Meanwhile you are nothing more than an unpaid whore and babysitter to him. (SORRY - REALITY)<P>B. He slowly realizes what he is doing. He will probably go into a deep depression prior to finally returning fully to you. He gets help and with your family in tact, you two live happily ever after. The End.<P>I would like to tell you that "B" of either situation will work, but following my heart and what little I do know, I believe the outcome is more likely "A". Reality really sucks. I agree with you that space is the answer. I know that is a bold and scary move.<P>At the end of May my wife is moving 15 miles away and I don't know how I am going to deal with that. In Kansas, we have a 60 waiting period after I divorce is filed, before it is granted. Since we probably won't file til mid May, I guess I will be using the space principle for about a month and a half. <P>Your father must have some wise grey hairs the rose colored glasses must come off. To the issues of the divorce (CS/Alimony/Custody), I have taken my glasses off. As for saving our marriage I continue to wear my glasses proudly, even if they are out of style.<P>MAKE SURE THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. Talk to the lawyer prior to doing any move. You may find it to be a mistake or you may find it to be in you favor. I don't know about the laws in each state. I too, am taking most of the debt, I will pay child support that I don't agree with (since we are doing 50/50 custody), and I will probably have to continue some type of support to her which I totally disagree with. She wants out, get out, don't let the door hit you in the a55. But no, she wants me to be her sugar daddy.<P>Well, I hope I shed some light on the situation. <P>((((Daily pick me up HUGS))))<P>Love, Bill<P><BR>There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, Except Me ha ha ha<p>[This message has been edited by LostHusband (edited April 24, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>He is miserable. I told him this AM believe it or not I want you to be happy. It seems that he is dying inside. I only want him to give us a shot, but more importantly because he wants to. He said than leave please. Give him time away from all this. But I am afraid of losing you for good. Once you turn a corner with her I dont want you back. He said all I can tell you is to try. Dont be afraid. Move to TX, and I will try he said.<P>So what the hell does all that mean? I am losing my mind here trying to figure this all out. Is there a chance between us if I leave? Or does that just get me out of his hair. And he moves on with OW.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dara, your husband is deep in the fog. He doesn't <I>know</I> what he wants, and he isn't <I>capable</I> of making sense. So don't take what he says too literally.<P>It is very disturbing that the OW is leaving her husband. I share your suspicion that she and your husband expect to end up together, and that they are fooling themselves into thinking that there is some way they can do it without guilt.<P>I suspect that the only thing keeping your husband off-balance right now is your presence. When my wife moved out and cut off contact with me, she was able to revise the entire history of our relationship with a rapidity and thoroughness that astonished me. If you leave, there will be nothing to stop your husband from forgetting what he wants to forget, remembering what he wants to remember, and fabricating what he wants to believe.<BR>

Hi guys,<P>Gnome do you really believe he will rewrite our history? <BR>He called a bit ago. Just to say hi (!). Asked if he was coming home to another arguement. He-he. I told him I am sorry, but I have been going through alot too. And I am beginning to wonder if I am losing my mind!! this rollercoaster here is getting old.<P>I told him that I have been wondering today if by you saying will try after I leave you are just paying me lip service to quiet me. And once I am gone I fear you will move on with her. Besides, how can we try to work it out 2000 miles apart? He said he understood. But we are not yet trying to work it out. He wants the space to "recover."<BR>I can understand that as well. But there are no garuntees in life here. He already has a GF, and my fear of leaving, with her in the picture terrifies me.<P>I know that if this will ever work out it needs to be on his accord. Not just an "ok dara." I wouldnt be happy, neither would he. I see that. But that dammed OW is in the picture. Bill, you are right about the depression thing. Last night he said to me with alot of sarcasm in his voice, just stay Dara. Dont move to TX, stay with me. We can be one big happy family. And soon enough, you will get sick of me and leave. I saw the depression in him at that moment, and knew it would never work if I stayed.<P>Gnome, I agree he is deep in the fog, thus he makes no sense. He wants time to recover. And I want him to have the self respect enough to decide for himself to fight for this marraige. But I also feel right now dammit!!<BR>Sure I made mistakes. No wife of the year trophy for me. And I am pessimistic about leaving here with her around. I am thinking about asking him to join us in TX. He doesnt even have to live with us, and can cont his education.<P>She has her hands on him. Even played with his sense of morals. They are doing it the right way. God will bless them.<P>What to do? <P>Take a risk?<P>Dara

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Gnome do you really believe he will rewrite our history? [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Unfortunately, it is very possible that he will rewrite your history. My wife has already began rewriting our history and it's not a pretty picture. Head way up there in the fog.<P>I still think that you need to talk to a lawyer before making any move.<P>Wish that I could say or do more, but that's all I got.<P>Bill<P><P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-

WOW!!<P>He just called again. Told me that he was thinking of what I told him, how insecure I feel, and the risk I worry about.<P>He told me that this is the only way for him. He is tired of being miserable. That it may take him six months w/o me to miss me enough to forget our past. That if we were to ever work out it would be from scratch, not like this. He doesnt want to give me part of him. He wants to give me all of him, thats the only way he could be happy. I told him I understood his need for distance, to maybe start from scratch, brand new. Not based off of whats here now. But I feel very insecure about this. I can accept the recovery period for you based on our history. But I feel so darn insecure knowing there is someone else. Afraid to take that risk.<P>He said that he understood, and he doesnt want me to feel insecure. He doesnt want to live his life chasing after foolish things. He doesnt want to be a fool anf think it would ever work for them. I listened in amazement. Told him I love him, and what he said meant ALOT to me. That I would walk to the ends of the earth for him. If he needs time then we will do this. I am just afraid and insecure of losing him for good. That he will dweel on all of our past, and not have me around to show him the positives, and how much I love him. But I do want him to be happy. I will do whatever it takes even though it scares the hell out of me. <P>I know he was reassuring me, that was the point in his call.I dont want to try and figure what all this means, if he is letting her go, if he is telling me he knows he will miss me, all those things. It just feels good to be where I am at now, w/o trying to read into this.<P>Dara

Dara, I'm hugging that little body of yours tightly...<P>Listen <I'm whispering>...<P>The man loves you. <P>He's getting scared of losing you.<P>He's confused.<P>I'm not gonna push you Dara, really I'm not. I heard all these words from my ex... and I *should* have listened...<P>He doesn't need space. If you leave you can pretty much kiss your marriage goodbye -- and that TRULY is JUST MY OPINION. Out of sight, out of mind is usually more true than Absence makes the heart grow fonder.<P>

WOW is right. This damn roller coast keeps going but nice to see you high on the ride. I won't even try to quote but you know the saying, if you truly love something let it go if it returns it is yours and if it doesn't it never was yours.<P>Isn't amazing the range of emotions that we go through at these times?<P>Bill

Dara,<P>Life is a risk. Here is where the controling aspect of behavior comes to hurt. You cannot control the future, and your cannot control the risks. But you can minimize the risks. That is what Plan A is about. Working on the things you can control, YOU. But not wasting time on things you cannot control, him.<P>Quite frankly I'll bet your H is depressed and in his depressed state, wants more pain and you leaving will provide that. Then he has the perfect scenario for a depressed man. Wife cheats on him, doesn't love him, and finally leaves him when he is down. Now this is the "perfect" scenario for someone depressed and feeling guilty. He is getting what he deserves.<P>The OW by the way, is an instrument in this whole thing, and I will bet that eventually she will fade from the scene whether you stay or not. I still think what you are seeing is the backlash from the past.<P>So do you stay or do you go? I cannot tell you. You want to go (sort of a Plan B). He wants you to go (removes guilt) and he may be right he needs to recover and cannot do it with you around. <P>Now lets think about that one for a moment. If he needs to recover, why is having you around hendering the recovery? The reason I bring this up, is that the answer to that question will very likely tell you a lot about what needs to be done in order to make your marriage better. <P>Does seeing you bring the pain of the past back? If it does, is he thinking that he needs to replace that image with one where he craves to return to you and the children? Does he need the image that finally you really do want him, and that by going away but being faithful, you have proven it? <P>You see Dara, I still think this is a test. Yes, it is one for him, but for him more of a test for you. I suspect that more than anything he feels you are staying with him for the support and the children. I will bet he really doesn't believe you love him. Yes, depression, self-esteem, and the past are in play here.<P>Perhaps he sees you leaving as the willingness to give up control of him, and if you remain faithful to him, it proves you do love him. This is very complicated stuff but in a way it is simple. I suspect it all revolves around his feeling you don't really love him, but don't want to lose something that is yours.<P>Some more things to think about.<P>However, if all of this is true, then don't use leaving as a weapon. Don't threaten him or anything of that sort. Just Plan A and discuss with him the necessary arrangements. But make it clear the door is open for you to return or him to join you down there. Talk about him coming to visit the children, not about him never seeing them again. THere is plenty of time to discuss not seeing children if divorce becomes the topic of the week.<P>You have signed the divorce papers if I recall correctly but he hasn't done anything with them. However, make sure that you do get what is justly yours in the way of support and assets. You don't have to be punitive, but make sure it is fair.<P>Dara, behave with "grace" and a kindness born of love. If you do you will have the best chance of being happy and restoring your marriage to a level it has never been before.<P>I wish I could offer you something really concrete to do, but this must play out gradually and as things change.<P><BR>God Bless,<P>JL

JL,<P>Yes I agree, seeing me just reminds me of the painful past. And that this is some sort of test. He told me last night that he always thought I would leave him. I think me leaving will be good for him/us. To give him a chance to miss me. .I dont say that to sound vindictive.thats not where I am coming from.. But where we are at now only serves to remind him of our past.<P>He still finds it hard to believe that I love him. Told me he thinks the only reason why I am holding on is due to jealosy. I replied that I was devastated, and told you how much I love you even before I knew about her.<P>No I dont think he is looking for more pain. I think he wants a release from it. He gave me his whole heart, unprotected and unsheltered before. How can he do that now, while he is hurting, just because I ask?<P>He did say he doesnt want anything halfway, or superficial. He wants to be happy. He needs to see me for who I am now, someone who will leave him so that he may be happy. Someone who will remain faithful to him even when it could be easy to do otherwise. Someone who wants him for who he is, not what he can do.<P>I believe me leaving is the ONLY way to achieve this. Yes its a big risk, and my control issues are part of my apprehension. But I have to let go. <P>Most people have expressed that I am signing off any hopes for my marraige by going. Am I?<P>To give him room to fall in love with me for who I am now, not to remember our past.

Dara,<P>If I knew the answer to your last question, I would definitely give it to you. It will be hard for him to reconnect with you away and the OW here to distract him. Yet, he has expressed what many have before, that the old marriage is dead and a new one needs to be started.<P>The hope is that it is with you. The issue here is that both of you will be tempted. You will be tempted to get on with life, date, and more. But if you do the marriage or any hope of a marriage will be gone. You will need to make a plan about this and then stick to it or all is lost.<P>You do need to talk to him about communications when you leave if you do this. Will he accept emails, letters, etc.? If you don't communicate then there is little chance for this marriage or the new one. It will rest mainly on you. Indeed I suspect that most of this recovery will rest with what you do and don't do. Are you ready for this?<P>This is truely the question and the test Dara. It will be rough but you can do it, however, it will take commitment such as you have never shown to do it. I know you have it in you, but you will second guess yourself a lot. People here will help you as much as they can.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>Gnome do you really believe he will rewrite our history?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think it extremely likely. Separation <I>can</I> help with healing, but is <I>more</I> likely to have the opposite effect unless a serious effort is made to work on the relationship. It is hard for me to imagine a positive effect with 2000 miles separating you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>He wants the space to "recover." I can understand that as well. But there are no garuntees in life here. He already has a GF, and my fear of leaving, with her in the picture terrifies me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What exactly is it that he wants to "recover" from? If he needs space to get his head together without distractions, then he should get it from <I>both</I> you <I>and</I> the OW.<P>I really believe that if you leave now, you will be effectively handing your husband over to the OW. That relationship might not last, but it's not likely to end without a lot of pain and misery.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I know that if this will ever work out it needs to be on his accord. Not just an "ok dara." I wouldnt be happy, neither would he. I see that. But that dammed OW is in the picture.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You see the picture clearly. Right now, <I>you</I> are in the picture too.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I saw the depression in him at that moment, and knew it would never work if I stayed.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How do you make that connection?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I am thinking about asking him to join us in TX. He doesnt even have to live with us, and can cont his education.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, is that really an option? That sounds like a great idea if your husband would go along with it. With rent-free housing for you, you might even be able to afford a separate place for your husband. That way he could have his "space".<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>What to do? Take a risk?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The question isn't <I>whether</I> to take a risk. It's <I>which</I> risk to take.<BR>

JL is right, Dara. You need a plan. A separation <I>could</I> be good for both you and your husband (it <I>almost</I> worked for me and my wife), but I just don't think your current plan of haring off to Texas can work. Have you dug up <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809225131/o/qid=988150098/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/107-2400924-3815703" TARGET=_blank>Controlled Separation</A> yet?<P>

Dara,<P>Read this thread. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000752.html" TARGET=_blank>Hope </A><P>I think it will help.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Dara, I posted this on "the coaster ride", but I wanted to make sure that I got your input so I'll put it here also.<P>In advance thank you and I hope you had a good evening.<P>I need somebody to either hold me back or let me go. I don't want to do anything "spur of the moment", but I think that I'm about too. Yesterday, I had a really bad emotional day. To get over it I tried to do something nice for my wife. Her sister (12 hours away) is having problems and I made a plan to rearrange our busy weekend and called wife to tell her that she should think about going to see her sister for four days. Immediately she said we have no money, and I reminded her that family is more important thatn money. After work met the family at the YMCA for kids soccer practice. Five of us sat in one area while wife sat in other. That really pisses me off. We got home. I kept busy. I fed the kids, mopped the floors, and helped with the laundry. Well then comes bed time. Wife asks me to do her some favors (i.e. get milk and cookies) and of course I do. We get settled in to watch I little tv. I start caressing (SP?) her back she tells me to stop. I wait for her to go to sleep and then slip out of bed and go for a walk. As I get out side, she yells down from the window, "What the hell are you doing?". I tell her and she replies "Really". Go for a long walk on a beautiful star lit night. Had a really good conversation with God. Get home she's still tossing and turning. So I reach over and put my hand on her hip. This seems to calm her. Then one of our girls couldn't sleep so I let her come up to sleep next to our bed. Wife gets upset. As I reach over to hold her she says "Don't". I'm crushed. Heart starts racing again. This morning as she leaves for "on-call" she says "have a nice day" and walks down stairs. After 12 years of a kiss every morning, now it's have a nice day, bull&&&&. So anyway I follow her down and ask what going on. She acts stupid for a moment and then says "Things are going to change". I say "I thought we were going to support and comfort each other until our split at the end of May". She says "Changes are going to happen". I say "well then I guess changes will happen on my side as well". I tell her to enjoy driving our new van today because it's the last time you will be able to. The end of that and here I am.<P>Now I just know that tonight when I get home that she'll have taken her wedding ring off, again (she knows that taking her ring off really hurts me). She was suppose to start sleeping on the couch a week ago and hasn't yet. Do I kick her to the couch tonight? If her ring is off, should I say "We are married, if you want to act singe then get the hell out, if not then quit this childish game". Should I just lay low if she says today that she is going to see her sister this weekend, then while she's gone pack her stuff and have it waiting on the porch?<P>From the questions I asked you can see what I want to do. <P>Should I?<P>Love, Bill<P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-