Thanks for the input from all of your posts. It is so refreshing to hear from all sides of the issues. And, yes, I'm waiting for the end of the school year deal for my kids and also for myself as I teach. I'm moving out for only my reasons and that is that I can't live under the same roof with him and be happy. He has cooled down from his violent temper when he was confronted by my father and his father several years ago. A counselor told me that marriage counseling won't work until he gets drug counseling and anger management but he says that he isn't with the problem. I'm the one with the problem b/c I'm such a cold hearted person. I admit that I did put up walls with him when he would cursed and cheated on me...by the way Im not the betrayer in this marriage. I do have girlfriends and relatives to confide in. He is hard pressed to do anything to me b/c everybody knows so much.

I did not suggest that she tell her H about her "friend." I said that she should not be confiding in the OM to begin with.<P>I think there is something fishy here. If her or her kids' lives are really in danger, then she obviously should leave, and leave immediately, not at the end of the school year. But in her first post, she said,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He has been unfaithful and I have found out of 3 affairs that he has been in. He is a drug user and we spend very little time we each other. I guess I can safely say that I'm very uncomfortable around him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Perhaps she is just a master of understatement, but heaven knows if someone held a gun to my head, I wouldn't describe my relationship with him as "uncomfortable." Why did she wait until a later post to bring up the gun issue? Maybe I am too cynical, but my first reaction to that later post was that she was feeling defensive because people (and not just I) had been questioning whether the existence of the OM had something to do with her wanting out, and she needed to come up with more justifications. Obviously no one here can know for sure whether her life is in danger, or whether she is making it all up, or whether the truth is somewhere in the middle. Rereading her posts, the tone did not seem to me to be that of someone who was feeling fear. <P> ITEACH said,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>contracting STD, having a gun to my head, verbally/emotionally abused and extreme loneliness<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course she didn't actually say who it was that was holding a gun to her head; she did not mention any other physical abuse; and I found it odd that she would bother to include loneliness in this list - you'd think that would be the least of her worries. <P>NB,<P>It is one thing to offer support to a WS who is repentant. If ITEACH is really at risk of physical abuse, it is appropriate to encourage her to leave, but I do not believe that anyone should be offering her support for her emotional affair. <P>T-L-C<P>It is beyond me how you can reconcile the belief that it is ok to share marital problems with people of the opposite sex with a belief in the sanctity of marriage. I am not a "sheeple;" there are numerous Harley statements with which I disagree, but I think that is a pretty basic one. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 30, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nellie1:<BR><B><BR>NB,<P>It is one thing to offer support to a WS who is repentant. If ITEACH is really at risk of physical abuse, it is appropriate to encourage her to leave, but I do not believe that anyone should be offering her support for her emotional affair. <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Nellie,<P>I do *not* offer support for her affair -- although in rereading what I wrote I can understand how you (and she) might think that. <P>My concern, no matter how she "states it" is for the safety of her and her child.<P>Nellie, how many women have we seen (both here and in real life) who are fear-driven when they are being abused? They look for an "out" because they are afraid... maybe they are looking for protection too... <P>...no, an affair is NOT the answer, but I can understand how it happens. That doesn't mean I think it's the right thing to do.<P>I stick with my original thoughts: GET OUT if there is abuse!!! That goes for ITEACH and anyone else who is abused. I take this VERY, VERY seriously!!

ITEACH:<P>Please call 1-800-879-SAFE and get you and your kids help.<P>As long as your H does not get help for his addictions, there is no marriage to work on or participate in. <P>Whether or not you are having an affair or not is completely irrelevant at this point. Please get you and your children safe, that should be your only priority!!<P>((((hugs))))

ITEACH,<P>Teacher, I'm worried now. You're last post didn't address the issue of having a gun held to your head. This is serious stuff. Please react to that point. Everything else pales in significance. It is the most important of all points and your last post just ignored it. Does that mean big time denial?<P>Your counselors are correct, therapy just doesn't work on the drunked up, drugged up mind. That brain just doesn't process information like everyone else. There are a couple of simple axioms: 1. If drinking and/or drug use cause problems, drinking and/or drug use are the problems. 2. If you drink and/or use drugs and have problems, you will always have problems when you drink and/or use drugs. There are no half measures. There is no easier, softer way.<P>Just last month one of our officers killed his wife and himself. The murder-suicide investigation revealed an unreported pattern of spousal abuse and denial. With proper intercession, both might be alive today. Please take a good look at the gun issue! Are there still firearms in the home your children live in? <P>Bumper

Guys....come on. Once and for all, I'm not having an PA nor EA. I hardly talk to him unless I want a male perspective on things. That's all. I agree that affairs are not the way to go when marriages are on the rocks. As for the guns, he put the gun to my head just once 3 yrs ago after that it is verbal abuse and emotional abuse. I don't feel threatened only b/c he is mostly not here. He spends most of his time with his drinking buddies so I'm more of a single parent that happened to still be married. As for guns in the house, no. His father took them all and he lives 8 hrs away. I know you, guys, aren't the first to question why I'm still around . Most of the time, I feel cowardly and stupid for not seeing the truth but when I've been put down for so many years as stupid, cold-hearted, etc...I believed it. It has taken 3 years of constant advice from some of the best friends I have to tell me other wise. He has tried to isolate me from them but hard to do that at work. I didn't realize that I had touched on a touchy subject. Believe me...these things have taken place over a period of 4 years with the incident of an affair in Oct. 2000. There is nothing fishy here just a lot details left out that is almost impossible to list. It seems to me that most of the emotions have been drained out of us like a flat balloon that now all we have left is nothing to say to each other. I think that too much has been said and done that's unforgivable.

test

ITEACH,<P>I am quoting some things you said, and I want you to REALLY look at them:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ITEACH:<BR><B>As for the guns, he put the gun to my head just once 3 yrs ago after that it is verbal abuse and emotional abuse. <P>...know you, guys, aren't the first to question why I'm still around . <P>Most of the time, I feel cowardly and stupid for not seeing the truth<P>He has tried to isolate me from them but hard to do that at work. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>All of these, <B>ALL OF THESE</B> are <B>CLASSIC</B> abuse signals...<P><B>PLEASE GET HELP.</B><P>I don't even care about whether you are having an affair or not at this point. I'll go out on a limb and say that if your friend can help you get out, then let him help.<P>This is NO JOKE. I take abuse SERIOUSLY and THIS IS ABUSE.

ITEACH,<P>Thanks for clarifying that at least there are no firearms in the home.<P>There isn't much I can add to what New Beginning just posted, she is one of my favorites here, I admire her candor.<P>What she said is right on the mark. There are thirty some odd indicators of abused spouse reasoning we in law enforcement are trained to listen for. Any one of them is sufficient to create reasonable supicion of spousal abuse. There are at lease four of them in your post. Maybe even five, many abused spouses have rationalized that it isn't really "that bad".<P>When you say that your husband uses drugs, that covers a lot of territory, some are far more dangerous than others. If one of those drugs is methamphetamine, crank or speed, you and your kids are still in a whole ton of danger. <P>Try this. You said you want your children to be able to live in a drug free home. Why do you think that can wait until school is out? Again, let me echo NB, Please take a hard look at this. Wouldn't hurt to get in touch with an Al Anon family group. <P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper<P>