Faithful - <BR>I admit I was tired and did not read all of the posts to you. Here is what my counselor told me:<BR>"1. He loved you as best he knew how."<BR>"2. It will be okay if you cannot trust him EVER, even if he becomes a reliable person. He has done enough to you that God would not hold you to account."<BR>I was not in your EXACT situation, but similar. My x wanted me to just forget it without having to rebuild trust. There is a big difference between forgiving and trusting. Forgiveness is my job -- being trustworthy is his.<BR>I don't know if any of my post helps at all. I did plan B with my x. I admit I was more successful with plan A. He just flits from woman to woman getting his needs met enough to keep himself in the same dull position. It did not work for me, but I know it has worked for many people here. And if it does not work for you, then plan B does prepare you and sort of withdraw you from him. (But you will have to do it right!!! I talked to him too much!)

What you are saying makes alot of sense. I guess for me in my situation, the good times were always a potential. We talked about doing lots of great things but nothing ever came of it. Even when we did go out, there was always something for her to complain about. I do love her and I know that she is not a bad person. I just can no longer listen to her tell me how inadequate I am. <P>Dani1962<BR>

I wanted you all to know that I am taking everything you say very seriously and giving it great thought and contemplation, but I have a couple of quick thoughts for two special guys:<P>Mike--you really ARE a guy aren't you (hit ya on the shoulder). Okay, you have a point that it was a guy reaction; what I perceived as expressing my hopes and thoughts, he perceived as a mountainous list of talk-talk-talk yada-yada-yada. To be honest, I suspect it's highly likely that he was thinking internally what you have managed to say verbally: that he thought we were done talking, I hit him with a "heavy" conversation, and he snapped. So thank you for at least giving me an insight into what in the world he might have been thinking. I have to tell you though, it didn't seem like very appropriate, acceptable behavior to me, and I have been reeling from it for days. It does help a little though to have a clue ask to why he might have whiplashed me like that--it doesn't heal the whiplash though!!!<P>And Bumper--dude, your note made me vaklempt (which is Jewish for teary eyed). I know what you mean about not wanting to discourage me, and to be honest, I did not want to discourage myself, even though inside I was afraid to death that this would happen. I was kind of holding my breath so that it wouldn't happen, and hoping/praying--know what I mean? You may have guessed by now that this is not the first time. The funny thing is, the addiction of choice for my H is not alcohol or drugs, he just has an addictive personality and is an odd combination of rageaholic and workaholic. I'm probably a typeaholic Anyway, I'll be blunt with you, bud. I know full well that there will be no breaking this cycle until he takes action ON HIS OWN to break it, and a major reason that I agreed to reconcile in the first place is that he talked the talk--that he thought MB principles were helpful and counseling would be good for us. Hey, he even walked the walk for the first month (almost)! That's why I feel like my heart is dragging in my shoes, because I thought he was taking action ON HIS OWN and now I hear it was all fake just to get me to shut up. I guess he isn't ready, and that makes me SO sad. with tear.<P>So, BumperPal, first, the next time you see the possibility of something coming, TELL ME! It's not discouraging so much as enlightening. Plus, rumor has it that I'm a pretty strong, smart chick!! I value the honesty of a loyal friend, someone who will be brave enough to say what they think I may not want to hear--ask Mike; he'll tell ya! And second, I got a giggle out of the "His Majesty the Baby" comments. Hmmmm (laying finger alongside temple) who does that remind me of? Hmmmmm. Okay--besides me! Last but not least, how long have you been sober? I was sober from 22yo to 24yo (1983-1985), fell off the wagon for about a year (in 1986 the wagon rolled right over me!), and I've been sober again since 1987! YAY--14 years!! The funny thing is, just last night when he was yelling and ranting and raving, the FIRST thing that popped in my head--even after 14 years--was "I wish I was drunk so I didn't have to feel this". I'll tell you what, though, if I haven't gotten drunk during THIS God awful year, I have high hopes for the future! <P>Okay, I'll write to everyone tomorrow. BTW, did you know that I print out these replies and take them home and read and reread them? That way I can contemplate them.<P>Thank you all so much!!!<P><BR>CJ<BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

(((((CJ)))))<P>"BumperPal, first, the next time you see the possibility of something coming, TELL ME! It's not discouraging so much as enlightening. Plus, rumor has it that I'm a pretty strong, smart chick!! I value the honesty of a loyal friend, someone who will be brave enough to say what they think I may not want to hear-"<P><Ragamuffin clearing her throat><P>"OK, CJ, you really are a great gal, and this time, I think you have been used. That is a brutal analysis. But darn it, I feel for you."<P>Please don't bop me over the head but I've got to agree with Bumper. You know where I stand on this....... <BR>Thinkin' of you today kiddo!!!<P>Ragamuffin<P>P.S. My hat is off to you and Bumper for your sobriety!<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ragamuffin:<BR>[BP.S. My hat is off to you and Bumper for your sobriety![/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I first went for help in 1972 and stayed sober for three years. The wagon I fell off of didn't have any ****ing wheels on it. I came back in December of 1978 and have been continuously sober ever since. For the alcoholic, sobriety is a blessing, not an accomplishment. But thanks for the kind words anyway.<P>Prayers and Stuff,<P>Bumper <P>