I have a close friend (a neighbor) who is seriously on the path to having an affair with her boss.<P>She confides in me frequently, and I have repeatedly told her to call Steve Harley, to read the books (I offered mine, she left them untouched) and have told her that she needs to quit her job and tell her husband.<P>Our conversations always go like this: "BR, I shouldn't tell you this, because I know what you are going through..but (latest little happening btwn her and boss)".<P>She is unhappy and completely agrees that she loves her husband but her needs arent being met..you guys know.. the whole WS handbook comes out of her mouth.<P>She admitted that if her boss were to capitulate...she doesn't know if she could resist. But she says there is no danger because he WON'T act on what seems to be a mutual attraction.<P>Of course, I don't believe that for a second.<P>She constantly promises to get help, to do something about it...but doesn't.<P>I only sorta know her H. Our sons are best friends. Ugh, they live down the street.<P>Do you guys think I should warn him???<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

IMHO, no. You are doing right in dealing with your friend. These are her choices. In the Bible, when someone is sinning it does not say to go to the offended one and tell them they should be offended. It says to go to the offender and rebuke them gently in love.<P>Besides, you may be there to catch her when she falls and help her to restore her marriage if you do not break trust by going to her husband.<P>Of course, if he gives you any opportunity you could gently help him see the ways he could meet her needs so that she may have a change of heart. He cannot stop her from having an affair -- he can only control himself. And if he is willing to learn to love her so that she knows she is loved, then he may turn her head before she makes a fatal (?) mistake.

BR,<P>You know what, I'm in some similar predicament, and I did mention what I knew to a girlfriend. She really doesn't believe me. I don't think I'd bother telling anyone again, except for maybe a best friend or someone very close.<P>I think you've done everything you could, the only other thing is, since you've been on the betrayed end, if this bothers you then tell her so. <P>It almost sounds like she really is wanting it to happen. Too bad she can't avoid our grief and channel that energy into her marriage and to her husband who deserves it. Whether needs are going unmet or not, thats where she should be, working on it with him.<P>

I say don't tell now, work on her BUT if she does decide to take the plunge into fantasy land then her husband has the right to know, esp if kids involved so he can stop it/change it /work with it/protect his health. <P>Hopelessmom

I vote for telling the husband SOMETHING. Not necessarily that you know that his wife is thinking about having an affair, but maybe, if it is at all possible, find a way to have a conversation with him about marriage and emotional needs??<P>I am one of those people who sincerely wishes that someone had told me that my husband was having an affair. But sometimes it is something that the betrayed cannot bear to believe - so they don't.<P>I guess you need to do what feels right to you.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

I think you should not say anything to the husband. Her choices have consequences, and they will reveal themselves. It is not your job to protect him or her. Besides, if she is contemplating an affair, there are bigger problems afloat that you know nothing about. Things happen for reasons; you should not interfere. It may turn out that she uses her own self control and willpower to say no. It is like taking a drink from the hand of an alcoholic: he needs to put it down himself.

Hi BR,<P>Isn't this little chit chat taking you someplace you really don't want to go? You've already given her the proper references. Not much more you can do. It sounds to me like your friend is trying to draw you into this.<P>Now that you have offered the healthy direction, have you considered telling her that you don't want any parts of this affair, and that you don't want to be responsible for keeping it a secret if she continues on this path? Do you realize that if she acts on this, and her husband finds out, the best you can do is lose? Either you get blamed for telling him, or you get blamed for not telling him. <P><B>It is her place to tell her husband about the problem at work.</B> <P>If her boss is stupid enough to get involved with her, there are enormous legal implications and a potential for several different Equal Employment Opportunity sexual harrassment lawsuits, and not just from her. I don't know what role she is playing, but as a subordinate, sexual enticement is not illegal. But for a boss to take advantage of his position (power over her) is unconscionable. That is a classic case of sexual harrassment. It could wind up costing his company hundreds of thousands of dollars. This mutual attraction bit is nonsense. When these things get in front of a jury, there is no such thing as consensual sex between a boss and a subordinate. Contractual maybe, but not consensual. And the boss is held to a "Higher Standard". It is both his responsibility and his duty to see to it that this thing doesn't get out of hand.<P>Have you reflected on how you could apply "Detaching with Love" to this situation? And how could your friend apply it to her situation? Maybe a little focus on that line about taking responsibility? <P>If she <B>really cares</B> about her boss, she will stop toying with these ideas and stop toying with him.<P>I really recommend that you refer your friend to her company EEO officer. BR, don't allow your friend to make this your problem. It is a potential puss pocket neither you nor your children can afford right now.<P>Prayers and stuff, <P>Bumper<P><p>[This message has been edited by Bumperii (edited May 12, 2001).]

Here's an idea, since preventing an accident, tradgedy is a good thing. Tell her to come (over to your house or whatever) and have her read these boards for a few hours. If she won't, try tough love and tell her you will talk to her husband and her boss if she doesn't. Nobody said doing the right thing was necessarily easy. But if she told you she was thinking of blowing her brains out, or trying heroin, would you stand by, and pick up the pieces when it is too late?

I'm not sure on this one either... but I'm wondering if there aren't some elements of Plan B that could be appropriate and transferrable to your relationship with her. You don't want it to be used as an ultimatum - if you want my friendship tell your H. That seems a bit petty and the results will be to shut down your somewhat open communication channel.<P>Then there are the biblical principles:<BR>1 on 1<BR>2-3 on 1<BR>church on 1<BR>move away from them and treat them as you would an unbeliever<P>Your attitude has to be careful though not to be self-righteous but humble and caring. You can paint the picture of what this has done to you and your family from the other side of the coin. And lastly, but not leastly, pray fervently for your friend and her husband that the TRUTH would be made known in a way that promotes healing while minimizing destruction.<P>Tough call...<P>------------------<BR>We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BrambleRose:<BR><B>...I have repeatedly told her to call Steve Harley, to read the books (I offered mine, she left them untouched)... <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That isn't just a red flag, that's Maggie's drawers waving in the breeze. Your friend isn't looking for help, she is looking for someone to tell her that she is right, that what she is doing is OK. She is a full grown woman, she knows right from wrong, she is looking for acceptance and approval from you while she flirts with disaster.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BrambleRose:<BR><B>"BR, I shouldn't tell you this ... </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is the one point where I agree with your friend, the person she should be telling this to is her husband.<P>BR, I just can't get a good feeling about this one.<P>Prayers and stuff, <P>Bumper<P>

<sigh> This is really something that I have to let go I guess.<P>I have made it clear to my friend that if she goes down this path, that I will no longer be her friend. That instead, I'll be showing my support to her H. <P>To which she responded jokingly: "Maybe you and my H should hook up and get married!!!" I didn't find it funny and didn't respond by laughing.<P>Her boss does send her mixed signals. As far as I am concerned though, it sounds like only a matter of time before something happens, because according to her, he is miserable with his wife and his wife treats him badly at any company functions.<P>This story could go right into the Surviving An Affair handbook. Really. <P>And I have done my best in the strongest of terms, explain to her what will happen to her, to her family and to her marriage. I've told her, "Friend, in the end, you will NOT be happier, you will be even more unhappy than you are now. AND your children will suffer, and the man you married and made vows with will be destroyed emotionally."<P>She responds "I know!!! That's why I am telling you, not someone that will encourage me." (So why doesn't she take my advice?)<P>She talks with envy about her boss and how he takes his wife on wonderful vacations. Her H can't afford to do that, and she isn't happy about it. We have talked a long time about her need for Financial support. She won't read the books though, and instead nags and controls the money and makes them both miserable. So part of her ENs being met are just fantasy!! I told her that her boss wasnt going to have all kinds of cash to spend on HER if he left his wife and children....her response: "I know!!" (So why doesn't she listen to me?)<P>She has a high need for admiration and affection. Her boss fills that need by complementing her on her professional behavior, and by noticing when she gets her hair done, etc. Nothing she has described is really THAT big of a deal, its usually tiny things during the course of the day that she is drawn to. She is a very needy person (she's wearing me out) and notices and clings to every small thought, effort or favor. I can't tell you how many times she's called me over her offense at something a friend did or didn't do, and I've had to spend 2 hours explaining that her friend wasn't trying to hurt her or ignore her or whatever....<P>Holy cow, she was even crying yesterday because I told her that I was planning to move away a YEAR from now!!<P>You are right Bumper...it's a pretty ugly situation. And it makes my stomach knot up. <P>I've not brought up the topic with her, I let her decide when or if she wants to discuss this stuff with me. And at every opportunity, I tell her to tell her husband, to quit her job, to call Steve, to go on a Marriage Builder's weekend, to come here and read the forum....and she always has excuses.<P>So yes, I think she's waiting to see if her boss really is attracted and if he will do something about it. She's so darn needy, I'm sure she craves the ego stroke of knowing she could make a man leave his wife.<P>I've been pretty harsh on her...to no avail.<P>So now, I'm watching this happen, and wondering .... <P>what if someone had warned ME ahead of time and sent me to Marriage Builders...would my marriage have survived? What if, what if, what if.....<P>Knowing that her H is almost certainly a future BS makes me just cringe any time I'm around him. I also, being a woman, don't really think it's my place to go have deep relationship/marriage talks with this man. That would just be bad bad bad.<P>So what do you guys think...since opinions seem to be that I should detach and not interfere....<P>Should I tell her that if she sleeps with her boss that I'll tell her H and cut her off?<P>Or do I wait for this catastrophe, and then try to help her out of it?<P>Actually...I may just separate myself from it totally. Too many triggers and too many things that hit home far too painfully.<P>I'd like to go down there and beat her over the head with the Harley books, thats what I'd really like to do....<P>

BR --<P>You know our advice. We have given it! and just like your friend, you can decide to listen or not. <P>But if it is stressing you, then she needs a new confidant. You do not need extra stress. You have not abandoned her -- you have given her many opportunities to help herself. And that is what you can do. You have done it.<P>I would say, let go, unless she turns aside from the boss and wants your support to make her marriage work. That will be therapeutic for you and her both! And isn't that what all relationships are supposed to be like -- interdependant?

Hi BR,<P>A belated Happy Mother's Day.<P>It is sort of like working with an alcoholic. It doesn't do any good at all for us to recognize that a person is an alcoholic. Until the alcoholic recognizes it, there is no help for him or her.<P>Temptation never takes a day off, and we all get tempted from time to time. (I've usually been tempted by those "bodacious succulent gals" an average of thirty five times before I've had my morning coffee.) Temptation is no sin, but acting on the temptation sure is. About the only thing you could tell her husband at this point is that she has been tempted, a sure sign that she is alive. <P>The bottom line on this one is that your friend's happiness is her responsibility. Until she grows up and recognizes that it is morally wrong for her to pursue her own happiness at the expense of breaking up another family, there isn't much you can do.<P>Prayers and stuff<P>Bumper<P>

BR,<P>My thoughts...<P>Love your neighbor as yourself...<P>Your friend is your neighbor...<BR>Her H is your neighbor...<P>If you were you're friend... you know you'd have to be straightened out!<BR>If you were her H... you'd know you should be told!<P>Many will claim you're being self-righteous...<BR>...but... when you can discern right from wrong<BR>...clearly see the (non sexual) lust/pride your friend has<BR>...righteousness <B>is NOT a bad thing</B>...<P>Joseph (foster father of Jesus) was first and foremost described as a righteous man...<BR>...a more than virtuous quality to strive for... for all of us.<P>My take on the situation is to...<BR>...talk to your friend's H...<BR>...be honest with your friend... tell her you will talk to her H...<P>...friends don't let other friends drive drunk...<BR>...having the situation continue is an accident waiting to happen...<P>Leave yourself open to both your friend and her H... (they are "one flesh"... are they not?)<BR>...and if either resents you for it...<BR>...know that it is part of what we offer to God... to service to him!<P>Love and peace...<P> <P>Jim

Page 285: "Private Lies" by Dr. Frank Pittman<P><I> If you know of a friend's or relative's affair, you have too much power and you are in danger of becoming part of the problem. </I><P>How you deal with this information will depend upon what the information is, how you obtained it, and what your relationships are with the people involved.<P>You may be aware that you have the power to hurt someone or destroy a marriage, and this is more power than you want to have. You must remind yourself that it is the unfaithful partner who is hurting a marriage the cuckold spouse can't repair the damage and save the marriage if the secret is maintained. You may say "But if someone is hurt, I could be blamed." But if you don't reveal the secret, you could be blamed for that.<P><B> If you don't care about these people, you know just what to do, gossip about it, tell everyone else, but don't face them with it. If you aren't close enough to the couple to be deeply concerned about your allegiances to them, then their affairs really are none of your business. </B><P>In the more difficult and complex situation of having an important relationship with both, or even all of the people involved, if they are relatives or close friends, you can tell what you know to both partners. Tell the betrayer first, and give him/her a chance to explain it to the spouse. What ever your relationship with these people, . . . take your information to the betrayer first. Let that person know that the information is out. The betrayer can salvage the situation by revealing it personally. Of course, if he or she doesn't tell the spouse, <B> and you care about the spouse, </B> then you should tell.<BR>

I am very glad I asked for advice before acting.<P>Except now I'm still completely torn!! I think my problem is that I don't want to be responsible for making a decision and I figured you all could make it for me!!<P>In my heart, truly, I feel that Jim's and WhenIfindthetime's posts matches what I feel deep down instinctually. But if I do the wrong thing...then I have aided in hurting a marriage....<P>But Bumper's post is dead on too. Intervention on an alcoholic doesn't work....so why would it work on an potentially wayward spouse? <P>I am going to pray on this for a bit before doing anything. I'm thinking that forced solutions rarely work, and I need to see my way clearly first.<P>You know what? I just realized that I am extremly angry at my friend for involving me in her affair.<P>I didn't ask for this knowledge, and I am angry that she has repeatedly brought it up. She knows what I have been through. <P>I'm going to have to tell her this too...I think after this I'll run away and become a hermit. People and relationships are just too darn complicated!<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

I think you should just tell her...<P>"You know where I stand on this. I don't want to hear another word about it. If you continue to tell me things that can only bring hurt and ruination to your marriage, I will tell your H, because I care about you and him and your children."<P>That way, you've done all you can. She is ultimately responsible for her choices. And yes, she did drag you into her sordid little affair. But by listenting to her, you are in an way "condoning" it, no matter what you actually say. She has a place she can go to talk about it....and you've given her that place!<P>So either stop listening or if you do listen, follow that up with actions....tell her H.<P>That's my opinion.<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B> You know what? I just realized that I am extremly angry at my friend for involving me in her affair.<P>I didn't ask for this knowledge, and I am angry that she has repeatedly brought it up. She knows what I have been through. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>BR,<P>You just got <B>IT!</B> That's the whole point. If someone is going to have an affair, I don't want to aid and comfort that person, I don't want to be his/her confidant, and I don't want the responsibility for keeping it a secret. You are very right to feel angry that she is trying to push this off on you.<P>We went on a golf weekend last fall, men only, no wives. One of the guys found a groupie in a bar and brought her back to the motel. Neither of them was feeling any pain, and suffice it to say, they attracted some attention. The next day he made the rounds trying to swear everyone to secrecy, instructing everyone not to tell his wife when we get home. It angered me that he wants to do this silly crap, and then he thinks the rest of us owe it to him to keep it a secret. You just can't keep people from talking, and in two days, the story was all over the department. Yes, I was angry that he put us in that position.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper

BR,<P>We both seem to be wrestling with "others" questionable moral behavior, though yours is so close to home and involves someone you consider a friend.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002917.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002917.html</A> <P>Simply put, I DO have a friend that doesn't mince words. That is what a true friend does, bops you on the head when you need it the MOST! No sympathy from her if she believes what I might do is wrong, vise versa.<P>Hang in there BR, this can't be easy for you! Maybe reading what OvrC's posted to me will help too.<P>Ragamuffin

Hey Bumper,<P>In the Navy it was called "what goes on, on the road, stays on the road" And it's wrong. I personally would not consider a person a friend, if he expected me to lie for him, and I would never ask a friend to lie for me. Same with cheating & stealing.<BR><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again