Hi Mike... You sound so very healthy... I'm trying to detach with love but having such a time with it! I keep reading and re-reading BR's info on that but find it still hard. Yes, I've gotten some good thoughts on what to do in the face of LBing... Your interaction with Terri sounds so healthy... just keep keeping on!<P>You say, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I couldn't sell a space heater to an eskimo...but I could build one out of matchsticks, a Bic lighter, and duct tape!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, are you McGuiver or what? I'll bet the more confidence you gain in yourself, the easier it will be to confidently "sell" your services when you truly feel you can add-value to a project!<P>We're off to SoDakota this weekend to visit the folks for two weeks... then we'll be moving to Wheaton. If we drive cross country instead of flying back, I'll look you up. I have seen your website and being a visual person, it's much better for me to visualize who you're talking to. Can't wait to see your L-room. I'll post some snaps of our host also for viewing once the sale goes through!<P>I'll write more later... I've got to get off line as the boys are beating the tar out of each other! Also, H is home and my sitting on the computer/internet is a big LB for him.<P>Hi Sheryl - by the way... I hope you weren't put off with my wanting to understand your "story" more thoroughly. I feel suitably informed! Though, I am concerned about some of the things you've written in the past few weeks that seem like you're not really "at home" with yourself yet... like somewhere in between the old country and the new... maybe I'm reading too much into this...<P>Cheers!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR><B>Hi Sheryl - by the way... I hope you weren't put off with my wanting to understand your "story" more thoroughly. I feel suitably informed! Though, I am concerned about some of the things you've written in the past few weeks that seem like you're not really "at home" with yourself yet... like somewhere in between the old country and the new... maybe I'm reading too much into this...<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi back atcha, and nope, wasn't "put off" with your wanting to know my story at all.<P>The concern you feel is fine -- I mean, thanks for caring. <P>I haven't made a final peace with everything yet... sigh... it is not easy being me. But this isn't about me, so I'll stop now! <P>I'm working on it... I can definately say that!<P>Thanks for asking about me...<BR>

Okay, this is about you. YOU started this post. I'm also concerned about everyone freaking out about hijacking posts! Why not write on it if there is something on there that strikes you? I don't think WFH minds... he'll post his issues, as I post mine and YOU yours and anyone else that can relate to what we're all going through.<P>So, forget Net-i-quette or protocol and write away. You sound like you need a o[ o[ o[ o[ o[o ]o ]o ]o ]o ]o! The 'o' is my head and the '[' are my arms! <P>Cheers friend! Talk more later!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Thanks for the hugs Nicole... <P>...and maybe later I'll post about it... and maybe I'll just get your email and talk there... because much of what is happening with me is about **this place** -- jeepers, just check out the posts on EN's and GQII... there's a fair bit going on around here, and it isn't always "safe" to talk about some subjects. Sorry to sound cryptic, and this isn't about you, it's about me, and how I feel right now.<P>I'll think about the best way to handle my feelings right now... and I will get back to you, okay?<P>(((((Nicole)))))<P>Hi again, waiting_for_her... thanks for letting me be here, in the middle of your peaceful thread! <P>

NAKinfotogo@aol.com<P>Write anytime. I saw some things last night between you ans Soulloss... though I'm not really sure what's going on. Sometimes it seems that this evil *thing* just sweeps over this network... it's holiday time so maybe people are more on edge.<P>We can talk more later... you too WFM, write an email if you want to take this offline.<P>Cheers!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Yes, Sheryl..I know what you mean. I have stepped on a few toes, myself, but that was my bad mostly. Like Nicole said....this is actually your thread, we hijacked it from you!<P>I am all for a healthy exchange of viewpoints...we all want to get 'better', but we do disagree on:<BR> 1. What's wrong.<BR> 2. How to fix.<BR> 3. Moral implications.<BR>There are simple reasons for that, but I for one refuse to practice my LB behavior on a near stranger, regardless...Hey I want to get to know you before I accuse, berate, belittle and abuse you...okay? Get real! Don't you think I've learned ANYTHING in this! LOL.<P>Sheryl, I think you are the MB Welcome Wagon! I would never have come back here after the divorce if you had not started this thread, and if Nicole hadn't been there, too. I'd still be in my man cave...licking my wounds....yuck! Who needs that! I took the opportunity to re-read some of it just now...I finally got the men's packet from Restore Ministries...it is really an eye opener. There are some radical aspects...like fire your lawyer, agree as much as possible, etc. BUT if you get past being offended by it (and that would be your [my] Taker talking there), it makes sense in ANY case. I was not aware that the Bible had such specific instruction, and I had never read Hosea before. The value it holds in leading me through helpful passages has been immeasurable. I am learning how to be the husband God wants me to be...the her I am waiting for is a wife that He is preparing in a similar fashion...I still hope it is Teri, but I do not question God's plan, I am living my life to support it, not stand in its way. I'm not saying that I want to jump right back into it, BELIEVE ME!...but I am not interested in living alone, either. I still believe in marriage (more than ever!), but I believe more and more in me, too. I was lost in my marriage, lost to it. She took off, and now here I am...now what? Work on me...work on me. BUT don't get lost in 'me', either. That is the danger right there. I've seen it here A LOT.<P>I post a lot at Michelle Weiner-Davis' site, too, and Yahoo's A Complete Marriage....(mtb, and mtb61275 respectively). There is a very wise man named Kent at DB who says, 'Don't get lost in the process', which I think happens. Its like we become THEM, you know? I don't like that alternative. I have gotten some good things in my life...some new, some I just noticed recently, but they are there. I like that, but really...what do you think I made of 18 years? Its not easy to just set it aside, I don't have that much ego, really! When someone does that, they are railing, too, just like their SO...what kind of odds do you give that?<P>I'm ramblin, Sheryl...mainly at you...SORRY, but I have to. You don't deserve any of it...ANY OF IT, understand? Hell, who isn't ready to be bitter? Raise your hand if you aren't ready to be bitter. Yes, and what you do about that speaks VOLUMES about your character. THAT's what I appreciate about you, and Nicole...you know how to be wronged, and STOP the cycle. God has given us this 'opportunity' to display true character in the face of adversity. It seems to me as if you (now talking to you too, Nicole) have come forward with character to spare. I have to say that my divorce, and my so-called friends (some anyway) make me feel sad about society, and what we allow to be acceptable, and blah-blah-blah. It hurts me...I thought we were better than that. You two have shown me that I was right about it after all. THANK YOU BOTH FOR THAT SO MUCH. I cannot tell you how much that helps! Despair stinks, and I had no respite from it when this thread started...iniquity followed me around, and I thought it was my fault, too. Its not, but I do now know that God has an equalizer...I am but one person, she is the same...we have FOUR children, however, and they are getting a practical object lesson. There are four chances to make things better, not to mention that we have places like this. I am going to put a forum on my website (I actually have a domain, which is the next step above a website) as soon as I can get more space at my host, or take it myself.<P>Oh, I do yack a lot, don't I? Happy 4th of July to everyone! Take care, God bless, you KNOW I AM PRAYING MY LITTLE HEART OUT!

Hi you two,<P>You didn't highjack my thread, waiting_for_her, since it was YOURS to begin with!! <P>Look, as you both know only too well... my life is not textbook MB, and that is the biggest hurdle I have here. I became "friends" with several from this site, and among those friends, I've found out that a few didn't really care about me unless I lived according their ideas. I've had more than my share of support too, but you know how it is: five say they love and respect me, and one says they have lost all respect for me, because of my recent life choices and what do I remember? Add to that my fear-based personality and abuse background, and you have the makings of a real live self-esteem blow. <P>Then, you get some folks who have no problem spewing hatred and anger at people on this board, and I know I could be next, not because of some latent guilt problem, but because I'm feeling vulnerable to attacks right now, and it makes me afraid to say how I really feel about issues. <P>Like you said, Nicole, you read the post between soulloss and me. She and I are quite good friends, and she has been as supportive as a friend could be. She loves me for me, despite some disagreements she may have about my choices in life. She is a senstive person, and desires peace, as I do. She and I, and many others, have noticed a new trend here, where people call names, go against many, if not all, of the MB principles, and basically are just negative. <P>I am not asking for pity, or for anyone to say, "there, there" and pat my head. Of course, we ALL want support, and to learn, or why else would we be here? There's a big difference between sharing your thoughts enveloped in love, and pounding your version of the truth on someone's head with sarcasm and pain.<P>Both of you are great examples of how to do things. <P>Mike, you are a spouse who is waiting. I respect that. I don't get the idea that you find me personally repugnant because I chose to move on. <P>Nicole, you are a betrayed spouse who wants to learn, and doesn't fault me for making a mistake that I have learned from (in spades) and you desired to know me better, so asked a lot of questions. <P>Both of you make me feel "heard" and that's what it's all about.<P>So, this is my mindset right now, along with some extra problems with step-children and my ex-H and some things that, although they would "fit" into the divorce board for discussion, I have learned it isn't safe to discuss.<P>Love to both of you, and hugs too,<P>Sheryl

Sheryl,<BR> Once I got my search criteria right, I found most (I think) of what you are talking about...WOW!<P>First of all, I think your life actually IS textbook MB, at least for me. I made/make mistakes, too. I hate all of the books that say, oh, they came in for counseling, made up and blah-blah-blah, because that isn't even close to what is happening in my life! I think, Sheryl, that the very thing I have 'taken' from you is the thing that is at the root of all of this, opinions aside for the moment...You seem to have learned to be content in your situation...not happy, but content. I spent the bulk of Plan A running aroung like a wounded pup, and that is a resipe for disaster. I can actually get you the time I changed that...go back and look at your post from the 24th of May, and Nicole's as well. That was it, and I don't think that either one of you agreed with what I was doing...neither did I. I mean, I still am alright with signing the papers, it would be worse now than it is. I honestly feel that the D was symbolic for her more than anything else, plus...I knew that she had already slept with him....I knew. There really ins't any changing that, is there?<P>Back to you...Sheryl. About the weight issue. Teri has been overweight her whole life, save about a year, but that ended, too for her. I think she was very happy then, but my job kept us apart for MONTHS at a time, and I lost her then. She is still steadily gaining weight, and it honestly breaks my heart AGAIN to see it...the denial is in her court, it appears. As far as the comment about the dimmer switch, I didn't care for it, although it admittedly dod come from the person with the weight issue, I really hate to see someone beat themselves up over such an 'obvious' situation. Let me tell you a secret about thin people, since I am 5'8" (short, too!) and right now weigh 140 dripping wet. I take comments to my heart by the same route you do, and I HATE BEING CALLED SKINNY, especially by someone who is not. Envy me? Do you? Why? I don't envy you (for that), and what is so special about being skinny? My XW loathes me for it, and I haven't done ANYTHING about it...I lost 20 lbs. in April in ONE WEEK, and as much as you'd like that to happen, on your side that equates to GAINING 20 lbs. Back to the dimmer....I admire Teri's body, and for so much more than it's appearance, or 'utility' in the bedroom. I needn't remind you what the 'point' of physical intimacy is: it is to show your appreciation of your mate...and their body. If you can't do that honestly, then move on, brother...who needs THAT? She was always shy about it, but I was not. Too bad. It is MOSTLY like that, but it does not HAVE to be like that. Men frequently fail to see the internal attractiveness of their mates, to their mutual detriment. I may be guilty of many crimes in my relationship, but I will not accept any responsibility for that....that is definitely her, not me. I'd say that gate was swinging in the OTHER direction now. Too bad, again.<P>No, I'm not sure I could find that much energy (to find you personally repugnant)...No, there is also a time to move on, no DOUBT there. I never post with the intent of pontificating, although I KNOW it sounds that way...like to TLFM, but I 'read in', too, like in Cheryl's case...she seemed like she wanted some justification...I gave her what I thought, same for TLFM....I still post to both, and we have a nice rapport/banter...which is good. Here, it is 'safe' to rant, and that's all that's happening to you, your just getting someone else's 'piss and vinegar' as my grandmother would say. God loves us all...with flaws, without flaws. I think he is really saying, 'We've got more work to do...don't stop now.' I think some people in this process get to a point where they think they are 'done'...with the OR, the process, the self-examination, the HARD changes, etc. I get tired of it, but I know that I am not done, why would I draw a line in the sand HERE? That would make MY situation better? No, but it sure does sound like what I got from XW, with both barrels...Hmmmm.<P>Take care, and don't get discouraged by 'man's reticence to change.' Your life is very fluid, Sheryl, that is good, not BAD. You own your mistakes, and triumphs equally, that integrity in action. Same goes out to you, Nicole. I am encouraged by that, because it means that there is hope for my children, and yours...and us. Yeah!<BR>

Hello... (pop, pop pop, pop... as the fireworks still go off) <P>Well, interesting notes both of you. Sheryl, it strikes me that it may suit you to sign up again under another name and manage both... one with your personality and the other not identifying yourself... to find the safety to discuss your issues on the board. Anyway, who would know then who you are? I don't know... I was just thinking about that when I read the thread about "pubic hair preference" on the other side... I thought it's probably someone who has been on the board for so long and is a very dogmatic religious person who has sexual issues to deal with and wants to get it out anonymously... strange thought. I don't know though if this could be possible for you since your posts eminate your personality so much. It's a shame to not be able to work through your issues. That's one of the beauties of remaining anonymous... you can bare it all with no one really knowing who you are. I've said this before but even Hillary Clinton or other famous personality types could be lurking or actively posting here for all we know?<P>Anyway, WFH, how do you have time to post on the other boards with the volume of activity you are involved in here! I even find it hard to switch topics and go see what EN Board is doing! I'm here more than an hour each day it seems! CRAZY!<P>So, tonight we went to my H's friends home where most people don't know what's happening between us. We just keep our distance from each other but the pain is felt and sensed I just know it. People are excited that we're here... we used to coordinate a yearly retreat in Chicago for college age kids (while we were in grad school) and were kind of the role models for everyone.<P>I said to my H tonight, "Wow, we're always just a few steps ahead of everyone... when we first met this group, we were the only ones married, now we've got three kids and we're even heading for divorce!" We laughed a sort of pained laugh... wondering if this is the fate for anyone else in this group. Most of them are from the same culture though and we're born in two different countries... so I think that adds to our stress. I was definitely the "outsider" of this ethnic group tonight! My kids were so happy though exclaiming, "Mom, everyone looks like Daddy!" It was cute.<P>Well, WFH, love that word pontificate... I don't think of you that way. I've actually been accused of being that way myself - by my H's father. He said I alienate people because of this tendency. Yeah, whatever... So, I'm given to thinking about that word and tendency in me a lot!<P>Gosh, I'm coming up dry now... I have one more thread to check out on EN about LUST that I'm curious about so I'll close here and talk to you all tomorrow. Heading out to the Museum of Science and Industry because it's free tomorrow! Yeah!<P>Cheers!<P><P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

You guys are GREAT!! Thanks for listening and responding!<P>I am smack in the middle of a difficult week, and can't take the time right now for a lengthy reply. <P>Just know that I respect you both, sooooo much, and am sending you loving, energetic HUGS!!!!!!<P>Sheryl

Everyone on this board is great! Well, almost everyone! Thanks for being supportive... <P>{{{{{{{{{Sheryl}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Hang in there!<P>Mike, you must be posting your snaps online dude!? What's up... haven't run into you today at all anywhere?! Usually I'm right after you or right before you! Still waiting for you to start your new thread!<P>Cheers and g'night...<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17