Thanks to all of you who have replied here. It's nice, or sad rather that there are so many people who have expierenced marriage problems. I never thought I would be one of them, but, here I am looking for hope on the board every day.<P>Wonder...You seem to feel as I do that every unhappy day is such wasted time that can never be retreived. I was always a happy fun filled person, now sadness seems to be stealing my life. I still get some happiness with the kids. I have a five year old boy and a two year old girl...rich man's family they told me, well, I don't feel so rich anymore. <P>Becky, I think I am going to try and pursue the depression route with her. Maybe I can get her to go to a doctor. She goes to a counselor who suggested separation on the second visit. That seemed strange to suggest splitting up after two sessions. She has had much stress over the last two years with family deaths and so many people leaning on her for support. She says that I am a good support for her and that I am a good husband, father, provider etc. That makes it harder to understand what has happened to her. Depression seems to sound logical. <P>Thanks.

Matt,<P>I have been reading your posts and the responses to them with great interest, because I'm going through something similar, but with a bit of a twist: I'm like your wife. Perhaps if I explain what I've been going through, you may be able to understand her a bit more too.<P>I became pregnant before my husband and I were married. It wasn't much of a big deal, because we were going to get married anyway, so we just moved the wedding up.<P>But of course, the rush of a wedding, stress of a new baby, finding a house, living with the parents, etc...very, very stressful for both parties. I came down with a major case of postpartum depression about 2 months after the baby was born. Only reason I didn't end my life was because of my daughter. During this time, I was horrible to my husband. Told him just about every other day that I wanted a divorce, I hated him, or constantly criticized him. <P>The poor man was so patient. I tried various prescription drugs for depression, none of them work. Then I happened upon Kava Kava, an herbal, and it really helped.<P>Anyway, due to all of this crud I put my hubby through, he lost his desire to have sex. I thought he didn't love me anymore. I tried everything to make him regain interest, but nothing. My daughter is now 14 months old, and still nothing. This has taken a huge toll on our relationship, and now the issue is no longer just about sex.<P>It's seeped over into every aspect of our lives. I feel I resent my husband for everything he's put me through (even though I know I put him through a lot), and it really shows. I've gone back to constantly complaining, or sometimes saying very hurtful things about him. I've threatened divorce too. And worst of all, I can feel the depression returning.<P>Anyway, I just wanted to share my story. I'm not saying any of this is your fault, but could you have done something to your wife (inadvertently or not) to make her grow to dislike you, like has happened to me? It really sounds to me like she's suffering from depression, but all you can do is suggest she see a doctor, the rest is up to her.<P>But for goodness sake, don't stay together just for the children. Heck, even my 14 month old can sense when things are tense around the house, even though my hubby and I rarely get into a fight. She's very sensitive, and will start crying easily. I know that when things get too bad, I will move out to save her from the animosity and bad feelings.<P>I don't know if this helps but I thought you might like to hear the other perspective. I wish you well, and really do hope that your marriage works out.<P>God bless.

Hello All.<P>I dont get back to visit here as often as I used to, but thank you for all the replies and discussion.<P>With regards to how things go for me, they are pretty much the same. Some good days, some bad days. Some days I feel like we are progressing, other days like we step backwards. Overall things are about the same.<P>I felt like I had to address my take on this "In love" issue. I feel that it is a different to LOVE someone than to BE IN LOVE with someone. Very few marriages can sustain the IN LOVE feeling indefinately. Things change, people change. I think that this is a normal progression and each person needs to make the choice as to which is more important, to LOVE someone and stay with them and try to regain the IN LOVE feeling, or to leave and go find the IN LOVE feeling with someone else. This is nothing new, it is just that now it is acceptable in society to leave and find it elsewhere.<P>I have decided to stay and try, even though my wife doesnt want to try to regain that feeling with me, because I believe in marriage. If you just leave when there is trouble to find someone else, then you will just end up leaving that person, and so on, and so on, when the feelings change. I guess it is that conviction to save the marriage that allows me to stick it out through the bad times.<P>Each person in this discussion has their own decisions to make about how long to stay and work, and when to leave. Those are decisions as individual as each of us. I hope that my situation will work out, but I have to say that each day I stay, I feel like I will have less guilt if I leave eventually. Noone can say I havent tried. I know I am not the perfect husband, noone is perfect, but I have tried and I have worked at this.<P>So, I keep trying, and going day by day. I am very uncertain about whether she will ever see me for the good inside again. It is hard to look at someone with untainted eyes when you have spent the last couple of years focusing all your attention on their weaknesses. I will have to see I guess.<P>Any more comments or ideas are greatly appreciated. I will try to check more often.<P>Matt

Matt.........<P> Well yes you are right on your last post. Being in love with spouse and just loving them is totally different. I don't think I can live with just the love part myself for al my life. I miss the hugging the kissing the cuddling which have been without now for along time. I don't think its wrong though if you choose to go on and find that in love feeling again. I think that we learn hopefully from the first time that we don't repeat ourselves the second. I know I have learned that if I ever get that second chance again I will alot of things diffently. I hope one day I can feel in love again but I know deep in my heart it will have to be with another. Don't get me wrong that everytime I go out I look. I wish someone would put me first for once. Not push me aside for other reasons. I wish I guess what I am saying here that I would matter like a woman not a wife,cook,mother etc. Sure those are part of life but so is feeling like a woman. That makes ya feel alive again. And that part of me been dead a long time now. Hang in there Matt don't know if any of my stuff helps ya but guess wanted to respond anyways.

Matt the man...first let me state that i'm new on this site and it is so nice to see some male input....You know us gals for the most part, self expression comes so easy to us venusians. LOL <BR>You hit the nail on the head with your last post and i had to respond. Hopefully thru the text, my message and words wont be misconstruded.<BR>If we could all go into a relationship, marriage... knowing that the euphoric state of "in loveness" will eventually leave and what we are left with is the person that has the qualities that we can love on a deeper level, I bet the divorce rate would drop considerably in my humble opinion!! <BR>I think Kevin stated that if he could experience that in love feeling again that he'd opt for it. Who wouldnt..what a incredible rush!!<BR>But again your right, We can be in a marriage and think that we are no longer "in love" and that by divorcing we will find that in love feeling again with someone new, only to be disappointed when it too fades. So I will always know that I love my husband, and I can stir those in love feelings...I just have to be a little more creative and Learn his love language. May I suggest this book...guess I already did :^D "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. <BR>Just finished it (in one day to be frank) and it really had some valuable tools that I hope to implement in my marriage.<P>Matt, I truly think that things are going to be a-ok with you and your wifelett. For you sound like a man who Loves unconditionally. What a key to a great marriage. Do keep us posted.<BR>Ruby

I'm back again with an update for anyone who cares.<P>It's now September and little has changed, somethings maybe a little downhill. Wish I could have better news.<P>I had a discussion with my wife the other night. Really just me talking, trying to make a point, she doesnt say much about the topic of our relationship. I just reiterated to her that thngs just couldnt keep going on as they were. She avoids any kind of physical contact with me, even hugging or a kiss, let alone sex. When she goes out of her way to avoid me like that it hurts a lot. I told her that I wake every morning hoping that today maybe will go well, but inevitably by the time we lie in bed at night I am left with the feeling that nothing has changed. I told her that she rebreaks my heart each day. Her response was that she would never allow herself to ove me that way again, never trust me with those feelings, because she never makes the same mistake twice. I reasoned that neither do I make the same mistake twice, and I would not take those feelings for granted again, that I was much wiser than before. She still clings that she does not love me and never will allow herself to again. How can I get past that, when someone is actually making a mental block to our future together. Sex has virtually ceased between us, and it has lost much of the feeling for me anyway. I am always left feeling that she has done it out of obligation, not desire, and I feel dirty. I try to make it from day to day, and some days are better than others. I just do not know how I can go on with or without her sometimes. I love her and I believe that at some level she loves me to, but because she doesnt love me at the level she desires, does that really have any meaning? I really dont think that our kids suspect or feel any influence from our problems as both my wife and I are strong in holding things together. I feel like no matter what happens, I have to stay, because of them. I believe strongly in the committment to marriage and want my children to have a similar belief. I cant help but think that if we seperate, we are teaching our kids that it is ok to do so. I know she feels the same way. However, I am going nuts at times trying to hold it together. My wife belives in the commitment to marriage, but not in giving your spouse a second chance, only in taking whatever comes and living with it. Sometimes it is hard, when she drags up the past and whips me with it. I firmly believe that if we seperate she will use the kids as a weapon against me, but I also know that I am very unlikely to get custody of them to prevent it. She will play it all out to them as being Daddy left us, whether she realy believes it is right or not. SO I stay, to keep my commitment, save my future guilt over leaving, keep good contact with my kids, set a good example, and to hope for a different future than what it appears to be now.<P>Comments and suggestions appreciated!<P>Matt

Matt:<P>I've been wondering what has happened to you. Sorry to hear that things haven't improved with you and your wife. If it makes you feel any better nothing has changed with me and my wife. She still has not regained the love for me that she once had. Today is our 13th Anniversary. I gave her a card telling her that I love her and that I hope this next year will bring better things for us. She never acknowledged the card. She has said nothing about it being our anniversary. I really feel hurt, but, then again my emotions change every ten minutes. I go from hating her to wondering how I can live without her. Matt, she too has mentioned separation again. I said to her "where will you go". I think she expected me to leave. So, we are approchaing seven months with no change. I know I asked you Matt just how long you can hang in there, well, I keep asking myself the same question. Something has to give, but, like you I have small children who mean the world to me and I don't want to leave them. Oh well. It;s nice to see you back anyway Matt. I'll look for your posts and keep you in my thoughts and prayers.<P>Kevin

Matt,<BR>I think you SHOULD stay for the children. My H left me and our six children six months ago for an OW, and when he left he took our children's innocence and their trust. The oldest children can't stand him, the next two have no respect for him. Although I only suspected an affair, I was well aware that he had been treating me horribly since it started 4 months previously, but the children were taken completely by surprise when he left. They had no idea that he had decided he no longer loved me. There have been absolutely no positives that have come out of his leaving - no upside whatsoever. It would be far far better for the kids if he were here, even if he were continuing his affair.<P>I grew up with parents whose marriage was high in conflict - far more conflict than my H and I ever had, and I will be eternally grateful that they stayed together. I thought sometimes that they were staying together for my sake, but they stayed together for the rest of my father's life, years after I was out of the house. My mother was devastated when he died, and died six months later. Growing up in a two parent family was the best gift they could have given me.<p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited September 04, 1999).]

Matt-<P>I only had a chance to scan your posting and the replies- I'm going to look again when I get more time. First, I think the suggestion that your wife may be depressed is probably very close to right. Second- I did not see Retrouvaille mentioned in any of the postings and it doesn't cross-reference in the search. <BR>Look at http://www.retrouvaille.org. If your wife is wanting to stay together for the kids, she may decide she has nothing to lose if she just goes to this Retrouvaille weekend and only has to listen. You say she has some feelings about commmitment to marriage- this may also be a reason she would agree to go. It also occurs to me that one of MWD's concepts in DB is "divorcing the old marriage and starting over with the same person". I feel for you because my situation is very similar. I'll try to stay in touch with this- my post is Ground Zero here in Other Topics but I'll keep watching over here. Take care of yourself- you need to at least keep your sanity and your job for your kids.<P>harlequin<P>[This message has been edited by harlequin (edited September 05, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by harlequin (edited September 05, 1999).]