Thank you, Janet...I know what you mean. I have been at MB since a couple of weeks before the D, and these wonderful souls have shored me up...I'd have been in far worse shape without them. My entire self image is dangling by the slimmest of threads these days, but God has sent me some people who have helped me knit that thread into something stronger.<P>Well, then why not stick around, and lets get you in the circle, too? Knit one, pearl two! God bless -Mike

Okay, about last night.<BR>I did some preliminary work on the cardinal...just picking out glass, and such...I was too tired to try to draw one, and did not know where to find a suitable picture, other than my mind, which is clouded with non-cardinal images these days. I decided to sleep.<P>About 8:00 I got a call from my friend's son. He wanted to know if I would sit at the front door, and sell beer at the festival. I knew that XW/OM, and the 'gang' would be around, and did not feel like doing that. Then again, I need the money, so I said yes. I went down there, and Dave (my friend) was working the door at the bar...so I asked him what he needed from me. He was explaining when the OM's psycho sister came up to me, and had that puppy dog look...she started to speak, and I just said 'Don't'...then she put her arm on my shoulder, and I said, 'Don't', and stepped back from her. As I turned away, there was my XW standing behind me. I turned more, and went over to the bar and got my bank, and Gayla (Dave's wife) took me out front to set me up. There is a large bay window there, and I saw XW/OM walk by a few times....I wanted to die. She had a flower in her hair...something new. She still looks ragged, but she looked very good to me last night. We never spoke, or anything. I sat in the front, wanting to be ANYWHERE else at all. I didn't sell too much beer, but about 11:00 or so, I heard the voice of the OM's other (nicer, saner) sister. She did not notice me in there, and I was kind of glad, because I have issues with her, even though we are supposed to be friends. Unfortunately, her husband (a man I respect, admire, and want to be friends with) did notice me. He walked up, extended his hand, and said, 'Mike, how are you doing?'...I fumbled a little, but said I guess that I was okay. We chatted a little, and she came up, and said nothing, and they left. I watched them go, and then come back in. That's when she asked me how I was doing...and I told her exactly how I felt in no uncertain terms:<BR> 'How am I? Let's see, my wife has left me for your brother...in fact, I hear them in the next room right now. Your brother claimed to be my friend, and so did you and your sister. None of you have called me, stopped by to see how I am doing, or anything. Am I supposed to come down here to see you...could you do that?' They said that they didn't think so. I replied, then don't make me have to be bigger than you would be. I'm having a hard enough time being the way I am. It went on, and she almost cried, but we talked it all out over a beer (I wasn't drinking...yet) and it was pretty good. She was extremely defensive...for good reason. I told her that I have learned that you can convince yourself of anything if the situation is desparate enough, or ugly enough, and that this is a major situation in my life...they all need to realize that. She started talking about her 'stupid brother', and a bunch of other things. I told her that she offended me by not inviting me to any of her parties...she said it would be akward...I said FOR WHO...YOU? What about me? The Memorial Day thing especially, since that was my weekend with the kids...I said, your brother and Teri could've gone somewhere else. Teri had already promised the boys that they could go camping, and I had not seen any of you guys. She recommended that I just tell them no, you have to stay here. I said, again...don't just put yourself in my shoes...enter my reality...could you have done that? She said she 'guessed not'. We went on like that for about 30 more minutes, then I opened a beer. Then Mike (he-he...he has the same name I do!) started talking a little...which is damned odd. He changed the subject, however...but he talked about Spencer, Garrett and Sam...who they took camping last week. Told me how polite, and helpful they were, etc. Then, at some point I got back on Marla's case about not asking me out there...and how now that I had to say it, it meant nothing for her to ask, so it was okay that she didn't....Mike said (man, he is good!), 'That reminds me, you've got to come out and see my new bandsaw.' (Now, three months ago, I'd not have understood the double genius of that statement. Men don't talk this stuff, and Marla was squirming at my righteous indignation tirade...plus they really are friends. He instantly took a positive step that allowed her to get off the defensive, and asked me over at the same time...plus, I really do need to use that saw! BRILLIANT!<P>After that, it was basically chit-chat. I was glad to get the air cleared with them. Too bad we can't be closer...its too close to XW/OM. She has taken everything...including most of my friends...which isn't very fair. I can be Mike's friend outside the others, however, and I am going to try to do that. My other boarder did not work out, so I may take in one of their sons...but he isn't too steady in paying rent, so its a frightening prospect.<P>Then, it was time to close, and I talked to Dave and Gayla, and another friend, Tom, for a couple of hours. Tom has been divorced twice, and doesn't agree that I should wait this affair out. I am sure you all get the 'move on' speech, which BTW, with men...mostly takes the form of go get laid, and other very colorful phrases. Honestly, it makes me a little sick to hear that. I have taken to telling people that if they want to advise me like that, phrase it like this, 'If it were me, I'd...' because I am not going to do that, and you should give me the opportunity to say, 'Yes, but you aren't me.'<P>I am getting the feeling that it will never work out between Teri and me, and she ended it with such a lack of honor, and respect that I am not yet able to be her friend, either. This is a bad place, but it is where I am at. Lynn, the knowledge of that truth is hard for me, but it doesn't change what I need to do at all. (Thank God for that!) Its not like your knowledge of the PA, because its not something that Teri values too much. She doesn't care what I think, she cares how she feels. Same with Rodney. Fine, I guess.<BR>Anyway, that's about all of it. I spoke with everyone except Rodney, who is still avoiding me...which is good. I told them that I would do nothing until he hurts her...then I am going to have my time with him. The reason is that she wants him now, and it is over between her and me, but he helped her along when she could've stayed, and we might have had a chance, or ended it as friends...he was too horny to spare my feelings, and my children's feelings, and the dignity of my family which is now destroyed. Later, he will do the same to Teri...and he will be called out for it. Society may turn a blind eye, and allow this to happen, but I will not. He will answer for this.<P>On a happier note, I made $45 for 4 hours work, and had three free beers...and some helpful taking with friends. Now, I've got to go get some groceries. I will be back later tonight, I think. Take care. -Mike<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited August 12, 2001).]

Mike,<P>Yeah, I'll sure do my best to help... I've been through BK, and I've been a loan secretary at a bank (plus 10 years of customer service at the now-defunct Crocker Bank - which became Wells Fargo, and I worked there too)... but be forewarned, it's been 10 years since I worked there.<P>Bankruptcy... yeah, unfortunately, I know TOO much about that...<P>Ask away!!!<P>Hugs, Sheryl

Hi Mike...<P>How are ya? Hope you're doing okay... so you had the confrontation... Gosh, what a bummer. It would just make me sick. Sounds like you handled yourself, you were honest, which is admirable and maybe kept your LB's to a minimum with your friends... it's hard but hey, you've got to let them know your feelings without alienating them, huh?<P>Anyway, thinkin' of ya... take care. Sorry it didn't work out with the boarder... that sucks. Well, see what works out with their son. <P>How are your boys anyway? What's your thought/plan (NLP) for regaining some ground with Aaron... I'm really worried about him.<P>Take care then!<P>Ciao,<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

Hi Mike,<BR>It was good to hear from you. I "feel your pain" about the friends. Most of our friends were people my STBXH worked with, because he just was not willing to pursue friendships with people from church and such. After a while, I just quit trying to expand our circle of friends. As a result, when we split up, I lost my social life too. That was very painful and lonely. I would sit at home and wonder what they were doing that I used to enjoy doing with them. And it bugs me that some OW is basically living "my life" (doing the things I used to do with the people that I used to do them with). I think this was almost as heartbreaking as seeing my marriage crumble. And living in a small town where you have to keep seeing all these people must compound it. It sounds like you handled it with grace (much better than I would have I'm sure!) There was a country song that was popular last year titled "He's living my life" or something like that. I think about it often. <P>At least I don't have the pain of having my children enteracting with the OM and acting like they are a "family" that you have to deal with. I really feel for you there I do know you are handling THAT better than I would.<P>I know that you are committed to waiting the A out. But personally, IMHO Terri does not deserve you. She has not acted with honor or respect. And it does not appear that she is even embarrassed by her behavior. And she did not mind subjecting your children to her unattractive behavior. Definiately NOT a good role model in my opinion.<BR>So while I think marriage is sacred, maybe God has something and/or someone more deserving of you out there. What do you think? AGoodManInTexas put a thread on a while back that talked about "riding the bicycle of life" that really helped me. It talks about God taking us down scarey roads that we may not particularly want to be on - but that is how he takes us to beautiful places that we never knew existed. I'm hoping for some "beautiful places" for me and I hope them for you too. I may even need to change my name from SoSad. <P>Even though I know the job is not what you would like, it sounds like you are on the road to a better place financially. And personally, the guys that work at my local convenience store are the greatest!! And who knows who you will meet there - maybe someone that could lead you to a job that you would enjoy more.<P>Take care!!<BR>Lisa <P>------------------<BR>Character is determined by what you do when no one is watching.

How am I? I'm good, I'm bad, I'm ugly. Do you know what the most asked question on the face of the earth is? Do you know which question people never want answered honestly is? Most people don't even ask me how I am doing anymore! I'm getting by...by the skin of my teeth, Nicole. <B>Thank you for asking...and thank you again for wanting an honest answer!</B><P>I have really been on a rant this weekend! I saw Aaron walk by last night, too. After that, I just looked at the street light reflections on the Mississippi, and cleared my mind completely...I was in a trance, literally. Sounds odd, but I was praying to God really hard...please send me <I>something...anything</I> because I am not sure that I can handle this. After about 10 minutes of this state, that is when my 'friends' showed up. I was very pleased that I was able to be so direct, succint, and not at all mean. I had some very ugly things to say, but I said them all very matter-of-factly, and it ended up with me feeling pretty good about myself. Time will tell what it did for them. The only thing that I regret about it was telling her that her brother has 'an [censored]-whupping coming'...since I am the offspring of rednecks...mine does get somewhat 'pink' at times! (Still, I can waffle on that one...he has <I>something</I> coming...I'm just not sure if giving it to him is my responsibility, or God's!) Yes, please tell me how much I tell everyone else that that is not their responsibility!<P>Well, I have successfully avoided applying any NLP to the Aaron thing...that redneck in me says to assume that he does not exist at all for the time being. I'm not sure what to do yet, but I am thinking about the alternatives. It doesn't pay to force these things too much sometimes. Right now, Garrett is my worry. I got some mixed signals from him yesterday, and I fear that he has been turned to the 'dark side' in this. He has the money to pay my electric bill (I really don't want this to happen this way, but I have no choice...the phone and electricity will both go this week if I don't make a payment...My check does not come until the 19th, and isn't enough to keep the electricity on anyway.), but hasn't supplied it as yet. I don't want to ask, either. I know that Teri has told him not to lend me any money...Funny, I had to pay him $400 last fall because she took it out of his savings account without even asking. Plus, she had a secret savings account with about $2000 in it last year...who knows how much she siphoned out this year...I never asked her what she did with her money, and she handled the bills...all I know is that I owe everyone a lot of money, and don't have any to pay.<P>Sam wanted to come stay here last night, but I guess he either forgot to ask, or was told no. She still has a week in her two weeks left, so I don't expect to see, or hear from them at all...unless they come to the store when I am working...which Garrett did Saturday morning. That is how he found out I was working there. I think it embarasses him somewhat, he was quieter than usual, and seemed annoyed at me.<P>Oh, Nicole it is such a pile of crap sometimes, I don't know where to begin to shovel. Its like they all have just put it on me...the cats were starving last week...I scraped some money together, and got them food, but this is a typical example of something that I said no to, and Teri overrode my decision...now its my responsibility.<P>Sheryl, I am thinking about not filing bankruptcy. One of my creditors accidentally told me that they are charging off my deby at the end of the month if I don't pay. Charge offs are bad, but I am going to wait until a couple of them do that. I am not concerned about having credit anymore...I wouldn't get it anyway, and bankruptcy is a charge off, too. Plus, I only have about $5,000 in unsecured debt. It is not worth it to me to lose my tools, and computer over this. I think a trustee would see that I have a lot invested in both, and I would have a hard time exempting the things that I want to keep. I have a pretty well tooled woodworking shop, and I also have a lot invested in my computer system. Illinois does not allow the $8,000 in personal effects...only $1500...they do not allow the $1500 in tools of the trade...only $750. Then, they wonder why people in Illinois can't seem to succeed outside of Chicago. I am beginning to believe that bankruptcy is not in my best interests. I would need a $400 deposit to the electric company within 20 days of filing...that is $100 more than they want to keep it on now. What a crock! Plus, the phone company, and all of the others...like I said, I am pretty much judgement proof because I don't make enough money to bother with. My XW might even make more than me....so she might have to deal with it, not me. I am also going to the courthouse after I get paid, and have the child support revisited...she's on Public Aid now, and I am making roughly half of what I was before. Its all a huge mess, and the more I try to sort it out, the more I am convinced that she needs to have some of this to deal with, not me...my plate is full enough, thank you very much! So, I am pushing some of it back on her, and her friends. I will try to figure out what to ask you in the next few days...I'm just thinking about options now. Thanks for your offer, I'll take you up on it soon! -Mike

Lisa, I managed to miss your post...sorry. Wow, it is amazing how that entire post parallels how I am feeling right now. I want to tell you that I have been thinking about you alot lately...and the lady I worked with the other night brought in a radio, and played a country station. That song was the first one on! I am not a huge country music fan, but I do like Patty Lovelace (sp?), and I heard the two songs of hers that I know...the 'lyin' cheatin', cold deadbeatin', two-timin' double delaing, mean-mistreatin lovin' heart' or whatever the actual lyrics are, and bunch of others that I like. I had posted about how we talked the whole time about marriages, and the Church, and kids, etc. What I didn't post is that I know her sister pretty well, and she is a bitter divorcee that spouts all of that meaningless, 'If you don't get it, you don't <I>get it</I> stuff', which I really loathe. I understand her hurt, but you know, if you want solutions, you have to define the problem...we aren't mind readers, after all...even though I'm getting pretty good at it. Maybe I'll join a carnival, and set up next to the guy who guesses your weight. 'Let's see....your husband is cheating with your best friend, and they are spending the kid's college money money on a new bass boat. He is telling her that you are frigid, cold, and distant. Meanwhile, he is just a little boy in a man's body, and has no idea that she will do the same thing to him that she did to her last two husbands...also, you left the coffee maker on when you left the house to come down here.'<P>Okay, I'm back to reality now. Yes, I've always liked the people there, too. I like making the donuts, I've always wanted to do that! The only thing is that everyone knows how pathetic things are for me, but I understand full well the purpose God has in me working there. I am suitably humbled, believe me. I work very hard there, and I don't regret it one bit. Like I said, I enjoy the work, although my little arms get tired mixing the dough...have these people not heard of mixers at all? I only have to mix two batches, because most of the 'fresh' donuts are actually made elsewhere, and all I do is thaw them, and glaze, or frost them. I was tickled at my trainer's reverence for the 'Donut Robot' as a complex bit of machinery. I worked on $12 million dollar passive sonar systems for five years, and $20 million dollar fighter jets for three years, and wrote complex computer programs for 6 years, I think I can figure out a couple of ovens, and an automatic donut maker. See, ordinarily...I be somewhat indignant about that, although I have never shared that indignation beyond the tip of my own nose...but God is telling me that even that is wrong. I don't think I am better than anyone else, but occasionally I will run into someone that has serious problems with me. When I was young, my siblings called me Mr. Know it all (remember Bullwinkle?), and I have an alcoholic friend that I can't talk to for 5 minutes without him calling me 'Smarty Pants'...now this man is 40 years old, and yet he goes into that same school yard mode every time we talk. I saw his friend last night, and he instantly said, look, Mr. Smarty pants is here! It was very funny...he was very drunk, and we had a good laugh about it. Then, he said that he didn't see it that way. I asked him where (Jeff) was, he said...in jail. Hmmmm.<P>I am anxious to see those beautiful places too, Lisa. I was talking to Gayla on Thursday night, and she said Teri must be in MLC...I said Yes, but I thought that MLC was supposed to be my baggage...where the hell is my sports car, and cheerleader when I need them? LOL.<P>Well, I need to wash my dishes, and get ready for work. I was <B>very pleased</B> to hear from you today, Lisa...just the ticket. <B>Thank you again</B>. God bless. -Mike

Hi Mike...<P>Not much to say, just I'm still trackin' with ya. My Mom, Sister and Aunt were just here this past weekend for a visit - well, really an unpacking party. We just went at it for two whole days... and rummaged our behinds off! So, I'm feeling a little more *on top* of this move.<P>Anyway, Garrett is you "say nothing to hurt anyone" isn't he? Gee, the sleeper effect of divorce on kids is something... I hope that you'll figure that one out and be able to reassure him well enough... school is also starting so maybe that will give him something to concentrate on rather than this misery called *life between my Mom and Dad*.<P>Cheers mate!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

Thank-you Mike,<BR>You know reading your post is like looking at myself. (except i left my stbeh) then he got a girlfriend. Why I let this bother me I have no clue. She just gets under my skin... And she is trying to hard to be a mother to our son.<BR>My stbeh is rotten to me when she is around and sweet as pie when she is not.. You will get thru this and so will I. Trust me it does not seem like it now to me or probably you.<BR>I really wish you the best Mike, you deserve it (I geuss we all do). My opinion thou is you can do so much better, you do not deserve someone to cheat on you, noone does. It hurts like heck thou. TIME is the answer I geuss for almost all. Something I don't like myself is the TIME thing.<BR>Wishing us all well<BR>Janet

That's it exactly...time. It a friend, its an enemy, its a spot remover, its a shoe polish...really, all the things you want to change don't, and all of the things you need to remain the same won't. When you must look at things so very starkly, and live through the emotions, it finally becomes clear that it is really all about your perspective; you representation of things, words, actions and people. I still have a hard time with how easy it is really to get along, and be nice to each other. I am speaking more of Aaron here than Teri, but the same thing is true in both cases. They feel that they have something to <I>continue</I> to say to me, and I am getting damned tired of the same old song and dance from them both. I told my friends that at some point I get it...you don't like me, or whatever...okay, I'm not in your way, I've done nothing to you, save provide for you the best I could, clean up your mistakes, pay for your transgressions with my money, dignity, and everything else. I don't have anything more for them to take at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining with that statement, and yes, I still have much...but they never saw fit to include themselves in any of that. Last May (2000), I made Teri a suncatcher for her birthday...she said that's nice, and put it in the window. I looked at it there for a month after the divorce, and then I gave it to the next female that walked in my door...sort of a door prize. I was tired of looking at it to be honest. I have come to the conclusion that she is right...she had not loved me for years...since we moved here, in fact. Well, isn't that just peachy. Okay, there is a different perspective on the last decade, or so.<P>How old is your son? Surely, you realize that she can't realistically hope to succeed in that endeavor. You need to give yourself more credit for that whole co-creating, carrying, giving birth, and all of the love, care, time (there's that word again! ) and attention, and everything else you gave, and continue to give thing! Really, I mean even the <I>IRS</I> gives you something for <B>that!</B><P>Take care...please tell me more about your situation, maybe we can figure some things out for all of us here. God bless. -Mike<BR><p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited August 13, 2001).]

Mike,<P>Please help me with my ability to limit my expectations. Do you know of any reading material that may help. I am continuing to hurt myself and it needs to stop. I just don't know how to turn it off. All I think about is hope that he will do this, or he will say that, YUK!!!!! I know better, I just can't stop. <P>Do you have any words of wisdom?<P>Lynn <P>Also I've decided not to Plan B yet. see response in my Plan b post. Thanks!

Hi Mike,<BR>HEHE Time <BR> Well Mike you asked for it hope you have lots of time to read this.... The SITUATION. Written and lived by me:<P>I got married in 97. I was a few months pregnant with our son. He had a son that lived with him who is now 10. So I took on the role model of stepmom and wife at same time of being withchild myself. (our son Chantz is 4 now)<BR>Things were going soso from the beginning I guess. (first clue). We like normal people had our ups and downs. He was a true city boy where I was a country girl. I know that should not matter but, that is what he always told me.<BR>We well I had our son in july going good and all. The following spring he hurt his knee had surgery so I had to go to work. That was not a bad thing. I enjoyed it. He enjoyed being home to much. He was a drinker. It wasn't to bad when he was working he would come home have a beer. No big deal every one who works hard should come home and relax. Well anyway he started his own business. I supported him thru this. I had to keep working becuase he did not have many jobs. Well instead of starting at 5pm to have that first beer it was more like 8am. He was trashed when I got home, would pass out before I was done making dinner. I used to let it go. I knew it was stress from him kmowing he was not providing like he used to, he did not like that. Well things got worse. He would get nasty and abusive towards me and the children. I dealt with that for about 2 years. I didn't want to leave my stepson in that situation but, it came to the point where I had to. I try to remain close to him but, it is hard. At this point I believe his business has picked up. (still does not pay me anything). Part my fault I have not taken him for child support. I was hoping he would do the right thing. <~~ I'm still waiting. So anyway this last year and some months he has played games with me and our son. Got me parking tickets, cost me lots of money, ridiculed me and just plain made me feel worthless. I am working on the me part but, it is just so hard to do sometimes......<P>Well there is part of it. It kinda gives you the idea.<BR>Wishing us well<BR>Janet

Lynn...somehow I missed that post...<B>sorry!</B> All of my answers these days revolve around NLP...it is working wonders in my life, let me tell you! Like I said before, it is very complex, the jargon is daunting, and much of it makes little sense until you get that down, so this will be difficult...like listening to Bob Costas call a baseball game, and you're from Jupiter, or something!<P>Expectations come from your core beliefs. You expect your husband not to LB because he is your husband, and not supposed to be shacked up with a woman with more emotional baggage than ten 'normal' people could produce, or carry. They also come from your representation of reality. You want to believe that a reconciliation is 'just around the corner', and everything he says, or does, or does not say, or does not do means a good thing or a bad thing...usually...its fixed!, or its over! These are the stops to which I refer to banging. I posted in Janet's thread some of what I mean by that. I live in 15 minute increments...very little is resolved in that time frame, except maybe my entire divorce, but that's just my <I>exceptional</I> nature, I suppose! If Teri can instantly dissolve 18 years of marriage in 15 minutes, then I can do the same...be divorced 15 minutes at a time...be unsure for 15 minutes at a time...be strong for 15 minutes at a time...etc.<P>If you want to rid yourself of expectations, you have to change some of those core beliefs. You need to reduce what they mean to you substantially. There are steps that you can take to do that, but once again, I will have to study the matter enough to cut through the more jargon-oriented literature, and put it into more easily digestable terms. My models page had some of the information, but it was a little bit on the technical side, much to my chagrin!<P>I can tell you a little in a more direct way. A concept that I had not been so keenly aware of that I now grasp <I>very</I> well is that of the meta-state. A meta-state is a state about a state. (Real clear, huh?) Like, fear of intimacy, or anger at weakness. We live the outward state without realizing that the inner one is the one we need to change. Expectations seem to work that way. You get angry with yourself for expecting things, embarassed at losing composure, and you can build them up pretty high, until you only see the top level. That is what I mean about getting to the core of it...what is the basic issue? Lynn...you want to be loved by someone who is not ready, capable, or willing to provide that...that hurts...then the pile builds into a huge meta-state...you're angry, hurt, embarassed, lonely...ad infinitum. In other words, your emotions are in charge of you, and you are primarily a thinker...this goes against your nature, and guess what? That pi$$es you off...yet another layer. Whoah! (I see it clearly, because that is me, to a tee.) Simplfy your life, and you will get some perspective on this thing. Therapists make a killing asking one simple question...how did that make you feel? Then you answer, and they repeat the same question, like a broken record. It works...they are peeling your onion. Once they see the core, they say...fix that, and charge you $75/hour for annoying you into fixing yourself.<P>I have said it before, but I will say it again..traditional therapy involves the pathology of things (how they don't work), and NLP involves finding out how they do work. Given the choice, I'll take NLP, even with the obtuse terminology, because it does not simply say, just do it, and never define what 'it' is.<P>What does your husband provide that 'completes' you? What do you miss the most about being happily married to <I>him</I>? If you were single, and you knew him now, I doubt very seriously that you'd have much more than a passing interest in him...so, what is it that you are <I>expecting</I> from him? No fair giving me ether here, I need some specifics. Look, you can get conversation easily. You can get justification easily, you can get support easily...you can get much of what you expect from him elsewhere, and it would not be an affair that I am speaking of, here. I think that you want to be needed by someone that is perfectly capable of doing without your more maternal/domestic/etc! services. It is a great ego boost (in a good way, too) to have someone need you that really does not need you. Someone to respect you for who you are without judging every little thing you do/do not do. Someone to agree with you when there is nothing at stake for them in it. I understand that full well. Perhaps you are feeling like you have been 'taken'; intellectually, sexually, personally, etc. You feel like a fool. I see your husband as the fool here. My situation is that my wife left me for a divorced man that lives with his mother that left him, and his sisters for years, and the buzz in my little town is that she bought their affection after their father died. She said that I was not spiritual enough for her...we had no connection, and she had moved beyond me. Okay, there isn't too much whirrrrrrrrrr in that, now is there? I am not saying that she did not have real reasons, but...that she is not in touch with them at all. She might just as well have said...'serltruhdfguk55oaralnhao4gio', and it would have made nearly the same sense to me. It makes no more sense to me to try and figure that mess out, as it does for me to try to split atoms in my basement.<P>You have a great advantage over your husband, Lynn...you want to know the TRUTH...remember? Not just about him, and the OW, but about you, and your life. You want and need truth. Here is a little truth for you:<BR>Expect nothing from him...and you will never be disappointed at all. You are wanting to stay in Plan A, and I sense that you fear that you will expect it to change, and then you will get into that meta-state...angry at both of you...you for being foolish enough to expect that it will change something, and him for refusing to let it happen. Reality is not that way. It will change something, he just has to try harder to keep you from seeing it. You need to change the core value that is not supported by that, and maintain a detached perspective. He will not like you making him squirm in this, there is no doubt about it. He will respond by taking it all, and LBing anyway until one of you can't handle it anymore...who's that going to be?<P>I will read some tonight, and for your part, tell me what those expectations are...what he has provided before that he is not now, and we can find you some tools to use in the near term, while your 'real' husband is on sabbatical, and also some tools to get him to wake up some. First, we need to get you the tools to deal with your expectations, then we can work on the communications some. Pack a lunch...this is going to be an all day job! God bless...I'm with you! -Mike

Well, here we are at another of those little milestone dates. My phone bill drop dead date. I was unable to get the money, and take it to the place I was supposed to. I called them trying to beg off until Monday, but they said, no deal, and promptly put the mark completely out of my reach at this point. Wonderful. Most places that offer help won't touch a phone bill, and I'm all out of options for that one, so I probably will be here much less often in the coming weeks.<P>My boarders started moving in last night. They are good friends, but <I>so young</I>. He is 22, she is 19. He is the nephew of the OM...peachy. (...but, he is my friend, of that there is no doubt.) When I spoke to his Mom and Dad on Saturday night, they were thinking that he was moving in with her Mom, but he had already told me that he was moving in here. They are concerned about his paying the rent consistently, but I am not. I'm only charging them $200, and he provides me with nice hardwood, I have a decent stack drying now...oak and walnut. He is going to get me some cherry next. Plus, he is going to help with making some stuff to sell. I also know that he will be good for the money, even if it is sporadic. I don't much care. He went through a rough patch at the beginning of mine, and is the <B>only</B> person who consistently comes over to see how I am doing. He knows that I am going to rant a little about his uncle, mother, and aunt, and XW, but he lets me do it, and doesn't run away like everyone else does. In addition, he meets me where I feel safe, and doesn't require me to meet him where XW feels safe, like everyone else does. Am I that wrong in not wanting to do that? It seems like they all insist that I go do that bar scene (which really never was me anyway) in order to see them. If I walked into that place, and got the 'lowdown'...There is my SIL, and her H, my W, and there is Teri, and my BIL, oh, and there in the corner is Mike...he's Teri's XH, they were divorced while waiting for some hamburger to thaw, and Rodney is now with her. RIGHT...I would run out of that place, and never look back. It boggles my mind to think that these people think that that is an adult situation at all. Honestly, I can't get to good on that...no amount of swishing makes up for the fact that it is fundamentally WRONG what they ALL DID, and that I did nothing to cause ANY of it. (No, I know that I have been distant in the past, but that was 10 years ago, and more.)<P>Janet...its that four letter word again. They are waiting until it is all 'normal' (actually, it is.) BUT, they all need me in that bar to make <I>themselves</I> feel better. I thought I was a fool to allow this to happen. The <B>truth</B> is, Lynn...that I could not stop it. They now need me there to retroactively justify it...just like Teri needed the divorce to do the same. She is putting bugs in my sons' ears about me not acting right about it....what have I done? Not a damned thing, save not saying...oh, Teri, I am so happy for you and Rodney...well, I'm not!<P>Okay, rant's over. Gotta get ready for work. Take care...I will be back tonight afeter work if God and Citizen's Communications are willing. God bless you all. -Mike<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited August 15, 2001).]

Hey Mike,<P>When I thought you were dead I sent you an email. Did you ever get it?<P>Can you give me your email addy again, either way. I'd like to talk with you, but don't come by MB very often anymore, and lately when I do, I'm so bummed out by the stories that I miss vital info -- like your ??'s to me about banking.<P>Sheryl<P>

OKay, I set up a Yahoo account since my ISP will likely shut down my other two accounts any day. I can get Yahoo mail anywhere, so... mtb61275@yahoo.com should work.