I hope you'all will give me a little encouragement here, because I'm not having the best day. Okay-in fact, I'm actually having a very sad day. Today, this morning, my H took off to go to the state where the OW lives, to the general metro area where he had his A, and I just feel like throwing up. You know, there were parts of me that were beginning to believe we were making a little bit of progress. They were tiny, baby steps, but they were steps forward instead of back, at least, and that was encouraging. Now I feel just raw. He's going right back to where he's slept with another woman, right back to restaurant mode, right back to where he's the most tempted and the furthest away from me, and right back to the one spot in the entire United States that I would just as soon BOMB! No offense, Utah is a fine state, but I HATE IT. It's the only place in the WORLD, literally, that somehow he found it okay to say "yes" to someone else!! <P>The worst part is, this was not a planned trip. We had planned to be together this weekend. He was going to come up to one of my dog shows and I was going to get to show him the thing that I enjoy. You know, sort of show off a little. But the restaurant in Utah had only one computer and they were willing to pay him cash, so I was dropped by the wayside and off he went. I feel like a leftover!! I feel like the least important thing or person in his life. After EVERYONE else is taken care of, if he has any time or energy left, then he'll think of me. What's worse, when they asked him to go, and I told him to try to rearrange things and see if it was even possible, he was like a kid in a candy-store. It's hard to describe, but he was so happy and talking a mile a minute and excited over the prospect of being able to go. GOD!! <P>Okay, I'm bumming, I'm lonely, I'm afraid, my mind is into massive trigger time, and I feel like I've been cast away for something shinier and more fun. Can I collapse into a CJ puddle? Is that allowed? Why can't I ever be the source of that kind of excitement and thrill? <P>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Can't say too much, but I know that feeling of being like a left over or not worth anything. I also know that just like me, YOU ARE A GREAT PERSON AND WORTHY OF BEING LOVED! Got to go, but hang in there! Go rent a movie or go out to a movie. That takes my mind off things.<P>I'll pray for you,<BR>FF 63<P>Try a little prayer yourself.

CJ, I don't know what to say about the fear and insecurity you feel over watching your husband head back into the lion's den. Of course, all the feelings you have expressed here are natural under the circumstances, and so this is another wave to ride out.<P>But, one thing I wished I had learned earlier in my own marriage...<P>My wife never seemed to have time for me, and I always felt like I got only the leftovers (and there were seldom any of <I>those</I>). So we agreed to set aside Friday nights for "date night". Only, something "important" always seemed to come up, and my wife would ask me if she could put off our date time. Since I could see that what had come up really <I>was</I> important to her, and I would just end up feeling bad if I insisted on her keeping to our agreement, and she would just end up worrying about things or resenting me if she didn't get to do what she wanted, I always let her cancel. And I always ended up feeling hurt.<P>If it just happened every once in a while, I don't think it would have bothered me, or at least not much. But, it happened <I>over</I> and <I>over</I> again. And I think my mistake was in allowing her to simply <I>cancel</I> our time together instead of insisting right then and there that we set up an alternative time for <I>us</I>. That might have made her learn to juggle her schedule instead of counting on being able to squeeze me out.<BR>

CJ,<P>Whoooaaaa, wait a minute! Where's the gal called CJ? Anybody seen her? This can't be you!<P>Ok, where he is "going" is feeding directly into your insecurity socket. Cut the line! Cut the thinking! Remember way back when, your husband took notice when he thought there was someone else interested in you? "That" CJ was confident, knew where she was going, was happy with who she was. NOBODY took that CJ away, she is still there.<P>You get your behind out the door and do what you love to do. Show dogs. He doesn't have to be there for YOU to enjoy yourself! His loss, don't make it yours!<P>What I am trying to say is the confident CJ would have said, hey ok, darn, sorry you can't make it, turned the other cheek, while groveling into a pillow. (hard I know) <P>"I feel like the least important thing or person in his life." Who is the most important person in your life? YOU, YOU, YOU!!!!!! Take care of YOU!!!!! Project it girl, project it!<P>"I'm lonely, I'm afraid, my mind is into massive trigger time, and I feel like I've been cast away for something shinier and more fun. Why can't I ever be the source of that kind of excitement and thrill?" <P>Maybe the guy TRULY needed to "get the heck out of Dodge" and that is ALL he was looking at this trip as. You guys have been hard at it trying to get things working between you! I doubt the "where" in all this means as much to him as it does to you, because "the location" is the constant source of your pain.<P>I'm in your corner (((((CJ)))))!<P>Gayle<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> My wife never seemed to have time for me, and I always felt like I got only the leftovers (and there were seldom any of <I>those</I>). So we agreed to set aside Friday nights for "date night". Only, something "important" always seemed to come up, and my wife would ask me if she could put off our date time. Since I could see that what had come up really <I>was</I> important to her, and I would just end up feeling bad if I insisted on her keeping to our agreement, and she would just end up worrying about things or resenting me if she didn't get to do what she wanted, I always let her cancel. And I always ended up feeling hurt.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ditto. Our night was Friday, but we were too tired or there was always one final job to do before the work week was over. So, we switched it to Saturday night. Look where he is going to be and where I am going to be on "our night". He always seems to excited about whatever the other important thing is, and sometimes it's even logical (like now--it is logical to want to be paid a couple thousand dollars in cash), but I just wish that I generated the same kind of excitement and anticipation. Like: put other people off because he's so excited to be with me. <P>I can also empathize with the idea that if you insisted on her keeping to the agreement, you thought she would just end up resenting you, so you let her cancel and always ended up feeling hurt. What can I say...ditto. I'm there now. All I can think of to say is that I am so sorry you had to feel that way, because it really hurts, doesn't it?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>If it just happened every once in a while, I don't think it would have bothered me, or at least not much. But, it happened <I>over</I> and <I>over</I> again. And I think my mistake was in allowing her to simply <I>cancel</I> our time together instead of insisting right then and there that we set up an alternative time for <I>us</I>. That might have made her learn to juggle her schedule instead of counting on being able to squeeze me out.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow, I love that term "squeeze me out" because that is exactly the problem. I'm last on the list and first to go, and now it has gotten to be such a habit that I almost don't feel anything! That's like death to a Feeler!<P> <P>Not a great day (sigh).<P>CJ <P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>I just wish that I generated the same kind of excitement and anticipation. Like: put other people off because he's so excited to be with me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You realize, though, that that isn't likely to happen for a while, don't you? Regardless of the avoidance/workaholism/whatever issues your husband has independent of you, the current strained situation in your marriage is not going to allow him to anticipate a date with you without experiencing <I>some</I> amount of ambivalence. I mean, can <I>you</I> claim to have unadulterated feelings of excitement at the prospect of spending time with your husband? Or do you also have feelings of insecurity, fear, and maybe even dread? Because you have pretty good basis for believing that things might not go smoothly...<P>There's no reason why what you want <I>can't</I> happen some day. But the road there is inevitably going to be long and hard. Funny how most worthwhile places have access roads like that...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> Wow, I love that term "squeeze me out" because that is exactly the problem. I'm last on the list and first to go, and now it has gotten to be such a habit that I almost don't feel anything! That's like death to a Feeler!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can't imagine. It was almost like death to this Thinker. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>You realize, though, that that isn't likely to happen for a while, don't you? Regardless of the avoidance/workaholism/whatever issues your husband has independent of you, the current strained situation in your marriage is not going to allow him to anticipate a date with you without experiencing some amount of ambivalence. I mean, can you claim to have unadulterated feelings of excitement at the prospect of spending time with your husband? Or do you also have feelings of insecurity, fear, and maybe even dread? Because you have pretty good basis for believing that things might not go smoothly...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh, oh. That's the problem in a nutshell I think. When I think about spending time with my H, I feel like singing inside myself--kind of like skipping and a little breathless and excited. I find myself rushing to get there, and I feel like I could soak it up forever. Yes, it's true that I do feel a little nervous because I can never tell how it's going to go, and I have plenty of reason for concern, but I generally feel like time with him is YAYTIME to me. Does that make any sense? The honest fact of the matter is that I look forward to spending time with him and I don't dread it at all. That's probably why I do get "crushed" though, is because I let hope sneak in there and then feel bad when it turns out to be a dreadful event.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>There's no reason why what you want can't happen some day. But the road there is inevitably going to be long and hard. Funny how most worthwhile places have access roads like that... </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>May I whine one minute? I am so TIRED of walking the long, hard road. For the love of God, can't someone else walk for me. When do I ever, ever, ever get to rest in the secure love of another?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> I can't imagine. It was almost like death to this Thinker. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Okay, I have two comments about this one. First, for me, not feeling is like the worst emptiness you can imagine. I think even with people I don't know, I feel something from them--you know me well enough to know what I mean. My feelers feel them. But I feel like my feelers have been cut off, and I'm getting nothing, and I can't grow them back. It's so isolating and alone, considering I'm used to being able to feel and intuit people (no--not Quickbooks--that other intuit). <P>Second, this may sound wierd, because I know we are all in the same boat together and we are all here because of trouble in our marriages, but I am so sorry you had to feel that way. The funny thing is, at least I'm a Feeler, so if I'm awash in emotions, I know how to handle it. It must have been very hard for you, and I can honestly say, I would never wish this on my WORST enemy. No one deserves this kind of pain. NO ONE. <P>Well, here we are, though, right? <P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Hang in there dearheart...Keep walking...<P>Much Love,<P>Bill

(((((CJ)))))<P>Yes, CJ can collapse into a puddle today...<P>...as long as she doesn't evaporate in the sun.<P>

Gayle, Bill, and Sheryl,<P>Thank you all for your words of advice and your encouragement. I think I need to let you all know that I am not going to fall apart or anything because he chose to go to Utah. In fact, I'll probably take myself out to a nice dinner tonight and then talk to my friends on the forum! It's just that I had gotten my hopes up that this was supposed to be "my" weekend to share my hobby/interest with him, and he up and leaves. Not only that, but he goes right to the OW's front door! Silly me, hoping again! When will I ever learn?<P>It's not the most mature thing, I know, but I wish he would have been all excited about seeing my dog show--just as I've been all excited about going to Star Trek stuff with him, or computer conventions. Know what I mean? Also, it's not enough that he just had a big confession to me about the OW the other week, now he's going RIGHT THERE!! How about a little time to recover and gain my footing again? How about some time to get my self-esteem back into "I know I'm awesome" mode right after he steps all over it?<P>Okay, Sheryl, thank you for permission to become a CJ puddle. I don't think it'll take very long, but a small yet emotional collapse would probably feel pretty good.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Hi Faithfulwife,<P>Just a little question. Did you tell him how you felt?<P>Nina

Nina, <P>Good question. I did tell him exactly how I feel. See, there is a part of me that can see the logic in wanting to earn a couple thousand dollars and be paid cash too! I can also see the need to be the "computer god" who rushes to the rescue and saves their touchscreen system. It's GREAT for his ego! That's my logical/reasonable side. The other side of me is the one I deal with the most, and that's the side that is feeling so hurt. <P>We have gone over and over how I feel last on his list and unimportant to him. Believe it or not, I often feel like the business is "another woman" (he is self-employed), because it holds his interest and excitement and pleasure almost like an affair! That's wierd: to be jealous of an inanimate object!! But that is how I feel. In this particular instance, I did tell him how I felt, in clear words. <P>See, Nina, the trouble is this. He was all excited about going (talking 100 MPH and bouncing around like Tigger). Then for about an hour it looked like he might not be able to go, and he got really depressed and bummed out (he was slouching around, talking about feeling sad, etc). Lo and behold, as soon as he found out they were going to pay him, he was bouncing again. His actions were really speaking LOUDLY!! I explained to him how I felt, but I did also tell him that if it was actually the desire of his heart to go--he should go. He went. And therein lies the problem. I wish that I was the desire of his heart and the part I'm not accepting very well is that I'm not. I mean, I keep HOPING that I am and then getting hurt. Then I try to MAKE him think of me as the desire of his heart, and he doesn't. See, the problem is ME--I don't want to accept it, and I should. <P>Okay--I'll talk to you'all later on tonight.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

(((((((((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))))))))<P>So sorry you feel so blue.<P>Speaking as the daughter of a workaholic salesman father, I can see your h gets a buzz out of his work, that is so different from the buzz that YOU can provide. Money is a big driver in this...my dad still to this day can't help bragging when he's had a good week. It's kind of like an addiction, too, I suppose.<P>What you need to do is separate the two...it's not that work means more than you, it is that it provides a different adrenaline rush. In this he can't see that you are concerned because it's the same place where the A began, that is an unimportant detail to a man. I know....I hate Mozambique and I hate where I am now, because that's where it all began for my H. I just wanted us to leave when we reconciled, but he just couldn't see why living here brought me such pain. (And I also think now that things were still on the boil, so why WOULD he want to leave???)<P>I only realised I wasn't the desire of my h's heart about 10 days before he left...well I also knew when he had an A six months before, but I thought that was OVER??!!??<P>I don't think this is the case with you, for me your story rings like my dad's...<P>I hope I helped.<P>

I don't have any great pearls of wisdom- too new- too fresh- too hurt at the moment- but I don't plan to keep just being a taker at this stuff....<P>CJ-<P>You are in my prayers, I hope that your husband will open his eyes to the precious jewel that you are, that you are special and deserve more than just squeezed in bits and pieces of time. <P>People like you and I have spent so many years of our life waiting for the crumbs to fall from the table of the person we love...I know how discouraging and hurtful that can be believe me- (My STBX's priorities were always- Work, His Fun, (His Women- which I didn't even know about)- His Rest- His Kids- His Church Activities- His Sleep and then I would get whatever was left over which was a big fat NOTHING)- If at any point earlier in our marriage- I had dropped him down to the bottom of the list instead of number one- our marriage would have ended a long time ago.<P>Please take care of yourself this weekend. Do something fun for you that you enjoy- relax (as best as possible), pamper yourself, enjoy one of these last gorgeous weekends of summer with some time at a lake, beach, pool, amusment park SOMETHING- call a friend and go shopping- do lunch with your kids-<P>I know none of it lessens the worry or takes his place-<P>But we are all here for ya girl!!!!<P>Love to you!<BR>TLFM

{{{CJ}}},<P>Your feelings are VERY understandable and normal.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>...I generally feel like time with him is YAYTIME to me. Does that make any sense? The honest fact of the matter is that I look forward to spending time with him and I don't dread it at all. That's probably why I do get "crushed" though, is because I let hope sneak in there and then feel bad when it turns out to be a dreadful event.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I really liked the "YAYTIME" --it shows how lucky he is. Most of us would love to have someone feel like that about us. You also want someone to feel that way about you.<P>It's not that you have a problem and shouldn't feel that way, it's that he isn't able/willing right now to give you the care that you need.<P>I think GDP's second post had it right--you may get there, but probably it's a long-term project.<P>So, are you still separated? Is he continuing to at least protect you from his anger? If still separated, how is he able to go on a trip at a moment's notice, or do you have an arrangement about the kids?<P>Protection from anger and the like is something to use the separation/Plan B type strategies to negotiate. Having someone feel that time with you is their "YAYTIME" probably falls more under Plan A/EN meeting in general, but a combination may be required to push/pull someone toward a POJA lifestyle that allows creating a great relationship.<P>CJ, I think it's awesome that you feel the way you do, but you need to continue to protect yourself and be able to continue to negotiate what you need also.<P>I hope you had a great evening, even if it was different than you had planned.<P>Steve

((((((((((CJ)))))))))))<P>I have been trying to get ahold of you and I think I have the wrong email. Please send me the correct one to my aol address. <P>I know we're in totally different situations, but I can certainly relate to feeling last, or wishing there was something left for you after everything else.<P>I don't get this type of behavior. Why do we get into relationships where we fall behind to last place? How do we get out of last place? I really don't know.<P>Are you certain that he is going to "see" the OW, or is this just the place where she lives? <P>Please write to me on email too, I have a lot to share with you. I'm sure you'll be surprised.<P>Hugs and love, Dana<BR>

CJ,<P>Follow up question to my previous post. Has he agreed, at least in theory, to POJA?<P>I think you did well to let him go, but were you able to negotiate an agreement to something else in return so that you could be enthusiastic about things? For example, "ok I'd like you to go, but when you return I want dinner out, followed by dancing. An evening of your undivided attention (not spent at a client restaurant!) without a pager or cell phone." Or maybe leave the kids with someone and you go too.<P>You're obviously not enthusiastic, so it's not really a POJA solution. I'm not trying to criticise, he may not be willing to POJA yet, but it's where you need to end up to ever be happy in your marriage.<P>Steve

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StillHers:<BR><B>So, are you still separated? Is he continuing to at least protect you from his anger? If still separated, how is he able to go on a trip at a moment's notice, or do you have an arrangement about the kids? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, we are still separated. Right now, I feel more separated than I did a few days ago, if you know what I mean. He is continuing to protect me from his anger, meaning that he has not yelled at me or vented his anger at me. However, I do see some of his old habits and patterns re-emerging, such as being "extremely frustrated" or calling me at work to vent or yelling at the kids about work and chores. I am very concerned for them, and to be honest, I'm not sure it was the wisest decision to leave them with him. I'm not sure. <P>Anyway, regarding your question about how he is able to go on a trip at a moment's notice, good one! You are so sneaky. We do not have a "formal agreement" about the kids and who watches them when and such. Obviously, I want to spend every minute with them that is not "on the job", so I hang out with them a lot. This weekend, when he basically just decided to "take off" on this trip, it was just assumed by both of us that I would watch them. However, I see just from the queston that you asked, that in effect, I have actually "enabled" this trip by being available at his beck and call to watch the kids; whereas, I'm not sure at all that the favor would be returned if I were to just drop everything and go on a trip--at least, not without a LOT of griping and complaining. Okay, teach, ya got me!<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> CJ, I think it's awesome that you feel the way you do, but you need to continue to protect yourself and be able to continue to negotiate what you need also. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm so glad you reminded me of this, because to be honest I had let that slip a bit. What I mean is that I remind myself daily to look out for my best interests, but this weekend in particular, I did not courageously stand up for myself OR protect my heart. Thanks!<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> I hope you had a great evening, even if it was different than you had planned.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You know, that's the funny thing. I am having a great weekend and thoroughly enjoying myself and my kids. For example, this morning I woke up at 5am to get ready for and drive to my dog show. The show this weekend was in a town about an hour north of Denver, so I had quite a drive just to get there. Anyway, my daughter asked me if she could come with me, and I told her, "You'll have to get up at 5am" and guess what? SHE DID!! So, we two women drove to the dog show, groomed the dogs, and she even walked one of the dogs to the ring! We shopped at the dog show vendors (and bought a t-shirt, a key ring, and a refrig magnet), had a picnic lunch, and watched the obedience classes. It was great fun, and she enjoyed it, and I was so glad to be able to share it with her. After the dog show, we took a little nap at home and then went swimming. Naturally, in the evening here, we are watching the Broncos chew up the Dallas Cowboys (haha). Soooo...see what I mean? Great day!! <P>The problem is exactly the YAYTIME thing...I do indeed wish I had someone who felt that way about me: YAY! It's hard enough to try to recover from an A and all the damage that does to self-esteem, but to also feel like I'm less interesting and enjoyable than a JOB in Utah just hurts so. I want to feel pretty and exciting and fun--but then again, doesn't everyone?<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DanaB:<BR><B> I don't get this type of behavior. Why do we get into relationships where we fall behind to last place? How do we get out of last place? I really don't know.<P>Are you certain that he is going to "see" the OW, or is this just the place where she lives? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Miss Dana! Just for your info, my email address is: cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com. After that last fiasco with the email that he read and then yelled at me about for several hours, I said, "Enough of THAT" and got an email that was not on his company's site. I can still receive email on my work address, but I want to use that one for work purposes unless it is an emergency or something fairly serious. My personal one works great for personal stuff. In the meantime, rest assured that this weekend I am catching up with all the people to whom I owe emails, and I think you are on the TOP of the list!<P>Now, to answer your questions, I have been thinking about what you asked: "Why do we get into relationships where we fall behind to last place? How do we get out of last place?" I can't speak for you, but I got into this relationship partly because I thought a guy as handsome as he is would never want to go out with a chick like me--and when he did, I was thrilled. I'm lucky--my H is a hunk, whereas, I've always thought of myself as cute (in a 4ft. 10in. kind of way), but not really very pretty. Know what I mean? So, you can see that even at the very beginning of this relationship, I did not have very high self-esteem. Thus, as things took place over the course of the years, and I was relegated to last place, I think I accepted it because I didn't have very much self-worth. <P>Over the past few years, my self-worth has increased and I have begun to see the value of ME! I had begun to have my own life, outside of "our life" or "his life", and I think that did not sit real well with my H because I was no longer willing to be last. Maybe not first--but definitely not last. Then he had his A! That changed everything. Suddenly, without any safety net (so to speak), I HAD to grow up and find some self-esteem and raise my self-worth and see the value of me. And that was VERY GOOD for me, except that now I am really no longer willing to be that last place, leftover "good-old-dependable" nobody. In other words, I think I am the one who has changed; whereas he is still dancing the same old dance. <P>So, the question that has intrigued me is "How do we get out of last place?" I have to be honest with you, I don't think we can. Here's the thing: although I may WANT to be first place--or at least higher than LAST place!--I can not change him. He has a choice: either put me first on the list and demonstrate that by his actions; move me up on the list and demonstrate THAT by his actions; or continue to act the way he has always acted and keep on putting me last on the "importance" list, and demonstrate that by his actions. If he is going to choose to continue to put me in last place, I can not do one single thing to "make" him put me higher or change him. I guess I just have to decide if I am willing to accept his choice or not, huh?<P>Finally, Miss Dana, you asked whether he was going to "see" the OW, or if that was just the place where she lives. Well, Miss Dana, after an affair one can never be sure what the heck is going on or what he is doing. After all, he lied to my face throughout the whole thing--so how can I tell if he's seeing her or not? I can honestly say that I doubt if I will ever be completely comfortable with just "believing" him. However, that being said, he says he is just going to Utah for work purposes, so that is just the place where she lives. Also, in his defense, I do not really get the feeling that he's trying to be sneaky or lying--and I do know that the restaurant he is going to does need work. Mostly, it's just a matter of this whole trip being one, huge, massive trigger. He met her while he was traveling like this, he slept with her while he was supposed to be doing "work", and he lied to me about his whereabouts and actions before when he was doing exactly THIS kind of trip in THIS city. Sooo...although I have no particular reason to think he is not telling the truth THIS time, I have plenty of reason to want him to stop this kind of traveling, stop this kind of "work" and stop going to this particular city!! <P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.<p>[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited August 11, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B><BR>...I was no longer willing to be last. Maybe not first--but definitely not last. Then he had his A! That changed everything. Suddenly, without any safety net (so to speak), I HAD to grow up and find some self-esteem and raise my self-worth and see the value of me. And that was VERY GOOD for me, except that now I am really no longer willing to be that last place, leftover "good-old-dependable" nobody. In other words, I think I am the one who has changed; whereas he is still dancing the same old dance. <P>...If he is going to choose to continue to put me in last place, I can not do one single thing to "make" him put me higher or change him. I guess I just have to decide if I am willing to accept his choice or not, huh?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>By jove, I think she's got it!<P>1. We accept the truth about our own shortcomings and learn to demonstrate the kind of MB principles that equip us to be a great spouse.<P>2. Having demonstrated that we've learned to value our spouse in #1, we show that we've also learned to value ourselves by negotiating via POJA a lifestyle that maintains love for us both.<P>3. If our spouse will not demonstrate that he/she values him/her self and us by agreeing to POJA we have a decision to make.<P>Of course the whole process takes time, and it takes a lot of patience to see it through. It's easy to sell our spouse short and conclude that we've done a great Plan A when we haven't and that the spouse has little potential when this may not be true either. But that's how I see it.<P>Sounds like you have a terrific daughter. I glad that you had a good day.<P>Steve<BR>