Unfortunately, I got the book off the internet and printed the pages but I don't know where it is right now. I hid it in the house one day when my H was coming and I don't know where I placed it, I am sorry. If I find it though, I will be sure to let you know. But like I said the book talks a lot about agreeing with your partner. For example, if your partner says that they want a divorce - the book recommends agreeing with the person rather than disputing it. That is a very hard thing to do. It's very difficult to go through a divorce agreeing with your partner when your fighting over money and custody and other stuff. My husband and I have not had one fight about what we were fighting about before he left. We have fought about things such as visitation and money. I don't remember those exact three sentences -sorry. <BR>You had mentioned to me that I need to work on Plan A but I am a little confused. How can I give him emotional needs when were are apart? You are very right, I don't know exactly how to approach this. It's going to be even harder because I told him that I don't want anything to do with him. So now if i Start talking to him, I'll look like an idiot. Previously, I did try to be nice and I guess I sort of did plan A for a while because I would cook him meals when he came to visit and I offered to agree with the things he wanted to do but he still wanted a divoce so I stopped talking to him entirely. What do you think?<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nina too:<BR><B>BTW Katie, <P>I think it's best you change your user name (handle). You never know WHO is reading this site. Go to "Profiles" on any forum page and you can edit, but make sure you let US know what your new name is!!!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I wouldn't worry about looking like an idiot right now. Next time he phones, be pleasant, do not talk about the relationship in negative terms, and for goodnesss sake, if you want to reconcile, keep that door open. You won't have to tell him, just be nice to him. I am separated too, and so there is little time to Plan A. 4 hours a week he sees the kids, but my time with him is usually just to ay hello and goodbye. But I try to make the absolute most of it.<P>Look good, smell good and act good whenever you have to see him, and if he does phone you, just be as pleasant as you can be. It truly does throw them. And be prepared for some hostility to begin with, and be prepared to IGNORE it and just keep being nice anyway....NO MATTER HOW IT MAKES YOU FEEL. Pride is a terrible thing, you can keep your dignity by being pleasant, because you know by doing that, you are at least trying.<P>Some people will tell you that this Plan A stuff is a game, and in a sense they're right, because you are always having to second guess. Think about what your h likes about you and work on it!!! I am trying that now, and what I have met with is a bigger wall than when he left, that's becaue he IS attracted but he doesn't want to acknowledge it yet. But he will, whatever the outcome. <P>And so you do have kids??? How many?<P>Good luck!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunny_Bear:<BR><B>Katie,<BR> I'll tell you exactly what my friends and family said to me. MOVE ON. ONLY keep contact with him about the kids. That's really all needs to know about your life anyway. The reason he's asking to talk to you and find out things is because he doesn't want you with anyone else. He wants to be able to go out and live his life but have you waitting on the back burner when he wants you. Ask yourself how fair that is. Don't date to make him jealous. Date because you're ready to. Him NOT being able to know what you're doing and who you're doing it with will drive him more insane than anything you can think of. When he calls you up either crying because YOU have hurt HIM or screaming at you, then remind him that he doesn't love you anymore so there for what is his problem? IFFF you truely want him back, he'll come home when he feels the threat of really losing you and THEN things will be on your terms. If he's willing to get counseling and work on this together. PLEASE take my addvice on this one. DON'T go out and sleep with, or date someone else to make him jealous. I did the same thing in the beggining and then there were 3 of us hurtting.<BR>Dar</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You said that your friends and family said to move on - tell me your story and what happened, I am curious. Also tell me about the dating and how your husband felt about it. Thanks.

Here is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A>.<P>How do I explain that? Well, Katie, he pretty much tipped his hand there, didn't he? He said don't touch me, I'll melt...He is trying to strengthen his resolve to leave you, and he knows that he is weak, and that you still have a great deal of influence over him. That one bit of infomration alone tells me that you need Plan A, not B. Your hurt, and the situation may make Plan B seem attractive, but Plan B has a prerequisite...a successful Plan A...if at all possible. How realistic would it be for you to do what I asked you the first time? (i.e. Try to line up some business for him, and <B>shhow him something, don't just talk about it.</B>)<P>Okay, you are reading NLP, but that is not all of it. You do not have to actually (physically) toch a kinesthetic person to 'touch them'. Your language can do that. Use words with him like 'feel', 'seems', 'touch', etc. You can either 'see' his point (visual), 'hear' him (auditory), or what he says can 'connect' with you (kinesthetic). The basic premise...what I meant before about learning to communicate with him, and your MIL, is to enter 'their world', and do so in a way that they can recognize that you are there. The way you do that is with <B>words</B>, and by matching body language. Tell me, what was the title of that book, and who wrote it? It sounds like either early NLP, or a sort of NLP clone. There is much in NLP that will assist you, I suggest that you study it further. Words have power, but you have to know how to use language effectively, and not just to LB, you know?<P>Yes, even some people with sheepskin to prove that they are right will tell you to do a stupid thing. This is not a casual relationship, this is a marriage. You will be able to achieve the same result without resorting to jealousy, and I can say that that is not a very good basis for a new, more meaningful marriage...someone has to be the keeper of the dignity, here. In other words, yes that will probably get his attention, but maybe..too early, and not in a good way. I recommend (again) that you not go there...If absolutely <B>nothing else</B>, your MIL will remember it, and use it in the future <I>frequently</I> ('Oh, Katie burned your scrambled eggs? That slut, remember how she fooled around on you when you were <I>confused</I>.') I'm kidding, but you know that she will use it! <P>You are a smart young woman, get smarter. Use what you learn, and he will either come back, or you will move on. Either way, you win...really. If you fix the things that are important to <B>you</B> without regard to what it might mean to him, you will succeed.<P>'Movin' On' was a great song by Bad Company...probably when you were a baby, but my point is that that term is always defined for me by who says it (<B>Consider the source.</B>) Either, its Mike, go get laid...or Mike, be bitter like me. Okay, I'll take <B>whatever</B> is behind door number three, especially if Carol Merrill is standing in front of it !<P>Katie, this is an E ticket ride that you are on, but understand the vast potential you have for growth in this. I'll tell you a secret that that psychologist was trying to say...men are attracted by self-assured, sexy, unavailable women that 'have a plan'. That's all there is to it. If you look nice, smell nice, and are nice....we are watching. If you seem indifferent, and a little aloof, our ears [censored] up. If we think we are not good enough for you, we try to get better right away. The trick for you is that you are too available...you are his wife, and despite what you may think to the contrary, you, and your body are his. (Okay, I'm gonna get it again here!) What I mean is that all things being <B>equaitable and just</B>, you belong to each other. This is not my sexist view, I got that from the Bible.<P>Yes, I think I said that there was an onion that needed peeling, and that means you, too. You will continue to tell us more, which is good, but I don't think that you realize that you are not unique at all...this is more formulaic than a sitcom, and about as funny as most of them, too.<P>For what it is worth, I respect the way that you are handling this. Please keep your dignity when the OW arrives...which should be any time now, I am sorry to say...She's likely already there...now why did I tell you that? Because, Katie...you deserve to know as soon as possible. Am I sure? Well, no, but...I would bet my <B>second to last dollar</B> on it. I was so sure that there was no OM, and he turned out to be one of my best friends...that is my shame to be sure, but...ask most anybody here...it would be quite an exception if there weren't another woman involved already, and to prove to you how done he is, he will introduce one in short order. I just want you to know that going into this, so that when you arrive at that point, it will not be such a shock. Do yourself a favor...quit saying....There's no way he'd ever...because he will, and you will begin to hate him for it.<P>Katie, you are being pulled in several directions at once, and I will say that the first thing to occur to you to do is usually WRONG in these instances, be very careful. I sense that you are going to try the jealousy thing anyway, since it has pretty immediate results. I sure hope that you don't! You can make him <B>desire</B> you without inviolving a third party, and about 81 times the LB factor. Plan A...get started right away! God bless. -Mike

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by waiting_for_her:<BR><B>Here is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A>.<P>How do I explain that? Well, Katie, he pretty much tipped his hand there, didn't he? He said don't touch me, I'll melt...He is trying to strengthen his resolve to leave you, and he knows that he is weak, and that you still have a great deal of influence over him. That one bit of infomration alone tells me that you need Plan A, not B. Your hurt, and the situation may make Plan B seem attractive, but Plan B has a prerequisite...a successful Plan A...if at all possible. How realistic would it be for you to do what I asked you the first time? (i.e. Try to line up some business for him, and shhow him something, don't just talk about it.</B>)<P>Okay, you are reading NLP, but that is not all of it. You do not have to actually (physically) toch a kinesthetic person to 'touch them'. Your language can do that. Use words with him like 'feel', 'seems', 'touch', etc. You can either 'see' his point (visual), 'hear' him (auditory), or what he says can 'connect' with you (kinesthetic). The basic premise...what I meant before about learning to communicate with him, and your MIL, is to enter 'their world', and do so in a way that they can recognize that you are there. The way you do that is with <B>words</B>, and by matching body language. Tell me, what was the title of that book, and who wrote it? It sounds like either early NLP, or a sort of NLP clone. There is much in NLP that will assist you, I suggest that you study it further. Words have power, but you have to know how to use language effectively, and not just to LB, you know?<P>Yes, even some people with sheepskin to prove that they are right will tell you to do a stupid thing. This is not a casual relationship, this is a marriage. You will be able to achieve the same result without resorting to jealousy, and I can say that that is not a very good basis for a new, more meaningful marriage...someone has to be the keeper of the dignity, here. In other words, yes that will probably get his attention, but maybe..too early, and not in a good way. I recommend (again) that you not go there...If absolutely <B>nothing else</B>, your MIL will remember it, and use it in the future <I>frequently</I> ('Oh, Katie burned your scrambled eggs? That slut, remember how she fooled around on you when you were <I>confused</I>.') I'm kidding, but you know that she will use it! <P>You are a smart young woman, get smarter. Use what you learn, and he will either come back, or you will move on. Either way, you win...really. If you fix the things that are important to <B>you</B> without regard to what it might mean to him, you will succeed.<P>'Movin' On' was a great song by Bad Company...probably when you were a baby, but my point is that that term is always defined for me by who says it (<B>Consider the source.</B>) Either, its Mike, go get laid...or Mike, be bitter like me. Okay, I'll take <B>whatever</B> is behind door number three, especially if Carol Merrill is standing in front of it !<P>Katie, this is an E ticket ride that you are on, but understand the vast potential you have for growth in this. I'll tell you a secret that that psychologist was trying to say...men are attracted by self-assured, sexy, unavailable women that 'have a plan'. That's all there is to it. If you look nice, smell nice, and are nice....we are watching. If you seem indifferent, and a little aloof, our ears [censored] up. If we think we are not good enough for you, we try to get better right away. The trick for you is that you are too available...you are his wife, and despite what you may think to the contrary, you, and your body are his. (Okay, I'm gonna get it again here!) What I mean is that all things being <B>equaitable and just</B>, you belong to each other. This is not my sexist view, I got that from the Bible.<P>Yes, I think I said that there was an onion that needed peeling, and that means you, too. You will continue to tell us more, which is good, but I don't think that you realize that you are not unique at all...this is more formulaic than a sitcom, and about as funny as most of them, too.<P>For what it is worth, I respect the way that you are handling this. Please keep your dignity when the OW arrives...which should be any time now, I am sorry to say...She's likely already there...now why did I tell you that? Because, Katie...you deserve to know as soon as possible. Am I sure? Well, no, but...I would bet my <B>second to last dollar</B> on it. I was so sure that there was no OM, and he turned out to be one of my best friends...that is my shame to be sure, but...ask most anybody here...it would be quite an exception if there weren't another woman involved already, and to prove to you how done he is, he will introduce one in short order. I just want you to know that going into this, so that when you arrive at that point, it will not be such a shock. Do yourself a favor...quit saying....There's no way he'd ever...because he will, and you will begin to hate him for it.<P>Katie, you are being pulled in several directions at once, and I will say that the first thing to occur to you to do is usually WRONG in these instances, be very careful. I sense that you are going to try the jealousy thing anyway, since it has pretty immediate results. I sure hope that you don't! You can make him <B>desire</B> you without inviolving a third party, and about 81 times the LB factor. Plan A...get started right away! God bless. -Mike<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mike, I really don't know how to implement plan A. We are already separated and I already told him that I don't want anything to do with him (fib). Not to mention that right now I can't trust him on his word - he screws me over every time I get involved with him. Also, I get emotionally upset when I talk to him. The other thing I want to ask you about is: I know you said that there is probably OW involved and you could very well be right. But what if there isn't? Do I still approach this as if there is? I suspect that he may have done some casual dating but at this point I don't see any evidence of OW. I know this doesn't mean it's impossible but here is his situation. He took this travel job right before he left home, then he is away most of the week to different places and sometimes on the weekends. This definetely gives him the opportunity to see other women but not the same one unless she is traveling with him. Also, when he first left he took my son every weekend, my son has a big mouth and would probably tell me, I did outright ask my son and he said, "no." As a matter of fact, friends have made a point to say that there is no OW. I do agree that it makes absolutely no sense and that it is quite possible. But he hasn't been making any sense for a long time. I will prepare myself like you advised. In the meantime, do you think I should approach this as there is or isn't OW? And how do I approach this plan A in my situation? BTW, I like your advice. Thanks Mike.

Part 2 of my reply, see above. The name of the book is stop your divorce. Just type those words in and it will come up. <p>[This message has been edited by Katie Carlson (edited August 19, 2001).]

Hi Katie,<P>You read my latest post...that is Plan A...showing your h the best YOU there is.<P>I noticed you asked if there was hope...in your case most definetely! "Don't touch me, I'll melt."??? I wish my h would say that, I'd keep right on touching!<P>Now, one thing you should do in Plan A is be honest. If you love him and feel that you can tell him, then you should. If you think he won't like you telling him, then don't...that is what's called a love buster (LB). Anything your H sees as a no-no is a love buster. It's not what YOU think would please him, it's what HE thinks. Also, if you think it's a nice loving thing to do, always ask youself what his reaction to it is likely to be. <P>I told you about the looks I got today in my other post...you think I didn't try to get them deliberately? I KNOW my h and I know what he likes, so I did what he likes. I don't necessarily like to get all prissied up on Sundays....but I know he likes me to look good, attractiveness of spouse is a big emotional need of his, not that he ever admitted it. Also he values a sense of fun...so I played up to that today, too. Also he doesn't like me crying, I didn't.<P>Dig deep. Make a list of things you know your h likes, and do them. Make a list of things he doesn't like and DON'T do them....and pay attention when you see him. If anything works, keep a note of it and keep doing it, if it doesn't, get rid of it right away.<P>The best thing about all of this is it is making you a better person, you will become more aware of the needs of others, while meeting with the greatest qualities within yourself; patience, resilience, fortitude, dignity and honesty. At least that's how I look at it.<P>Hope this helps...a quick "How to Plan A"!

I am familiar with Stop Your Divorce....there is also a website.<P>About the only <I>refreshing</I> fact about this is that it doesn't matter if there is an OP, or not. The EA/PA are <B>symptoms</B>, not the actual <B>problem</B>. Like us, marriages can have meta-states, too. Part of what Plan A addresses with respect to that is the underlying problem...the Love Bank is overdrawn, and you need to put him on a 'line of credit', which may not be a helpful analogy, but it helps to have a metaphor! Have you read 'His Needs, Her Needs'? A lot of your situation is explained in that...how you got to be where you are now. Its pretty typical of all marriages, actually.<P>Yes, I had suspected that your communications were that broken down. The very best Plan A thing to do is to change that immediately, and completely. If you can manange that, you will see a pretty major (and, I'm afraid...temporary) change in how he acts toward you. The first thing to remember is <B>never react</B>. Does that make sense to <I>you</I>? You have read that you should always agree with him in Plan A. I look at it as, be agreeable with him. Agree when you <I>can</I>, and be <B>silent</B> when you can't. Ever wonder how your tongue, being so small, can control your entire existence? Get control of your LBing tongue! Much easier said than done. I am certain that you are quite clever in using your tongue, but that <B>never</B> works, does it? Well, if you'd only use your powers for <I>good</I>! <P>Plan A is easy for <B>anyone</B> to talk themselves out of...Plan B always seems attractive, but without a proper Plan A foundation, Plan B is not as effective. Okay, you see him being gone as a disadvantage. That is your first thing you will need to completely reverse your belief in. There are two kinds of belief, those that empower you, and those that limit you. If you want to change yourself, then you are likely to have to change some beliefs, and take new meaning from things as a result. Okay, how do yoiu get to feel empowered by him being gone? You said that he left a lot of unfinished projects around the house (Same here, guilty as charged!). Finish one of them. Is there one that you can do yourself, right now, and finish it? Take the responsibility to complete all of these projects, make it obvious that you are doing it. Rearrange the furniture, and basically make the house a warm, and <I>safe</I> place for him. Here is a quick bit of NLP on changing beliefs...<BR>Ask your self these questions:<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> How will my life be better with this new belief?<BR><LI> How might my life be worse with this new belief?<BR><LI> What is the best thing that could happen if I kept the old belief?<BR><LI> What is the best thing that could happen with the new belief?</UL><P>If you want to reconcile with your husband, then you must ensure that the things that you do support that desired outcome. When you LB, then you are not supporting your goal, and this is a lack of <I>integrity</I> in the literal sense. (i.e. The little pieces do not support the whole.) Values mean little when they are idle, and if you want to understand, you must take action. You make the choice of taking a supportive action, or a destructive one constantly in this. He knows how to push those buttons, and he's probably using them like a trampoline now. Yes, he derives some satisfaction from being able to control you in that way, and not having any real consequences for it. This hurts you, I'm sure...I know that it hurts me. So, you have to change the meaning of your communications with him. <B>The meaning of your communication is the response you get.</B> Make that your mantra. If you say something, and he yells back, that is the meaning of your communication. I'm not blaming anyone, here but that is the 'way it is'. You have much more power in your interactions with him, you need to take that responsibility, because apparently he does not. Start, like I said with establishing rapport through body language, and using those 'feeling' words that make up his perceived reality. Maybe you could integrate colors, and smells....you need to make the package as complete as possible.<P>Work on making the home to his liking, and safe. Its Plan A, doable, and something that is good for you anyway, right? Keep reading, and thinking...be positive, you will go into some very frightening, and just plain bad places in this process, you've seen much of it already, haven't you? Trust in, and turn to God when you need to...which for me is all the time, every day! My life seems more like a constant dialog with God these days, than any thing else! Take care. -Mike<BR><p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited August 19, 2001).]

Mike and Nina:<P>I have a question for you. Now if I do start to implement with plan A which includes agreeing with him, how do I deal with the other issues involved such as monetary and visitation which at present in a disasterous state? Since he has left, he hasn't paid any of the bills and I have been a stay at home mom ( you know where I'm at- broke)! Also, when he takes my son, he says he is going to take him to his house but he frequently goes to stay at friends houses and makes our son sleep on the floor. How do I deal with these issues and do plan A at the same time? BTW, your advice has been good! Thanks.<BR>Me