Well it has been a little over a week since my husband moved out and while there has been some contact, not too much. A couple of calls from him and very little conversation when he came to see the kids. He and I did have a good, long conversation, in person on Friday because I felt that his first week away from us, he wasted a week of our lives because he was out playing softball every night and not taking the time away for what he intended. That was to find out what he needed to do to make our relationship work. He has told me that he has noticed several good changes in me and that made him happy. Since I could tell in that one week, he still had made no progress, I gave him my list of things that I would need to see changed in him before I could think of having him move back in. He did actually admit that he has been pretty selfish for the last six months, which I believe has been part of the breakdown of our marriage. Which I also believe is very fixable and he agrees too. All in all the conversation went very well and when he left, he told me that he loved me. Until today, I have not seen or talked to him, nor has he seen the kids.<P>Since the separation, the kids and I have been spending a lot of time together and boy they sure are great kids. Anyway, the kids and I were at the park for a while and my husband called my cell phone crying and telling me that he was having a bad day. He said he tried to call us yesterday too but we weren't home. I asked him why he was having such a bad day and he said because he really misses all of us.<P>Does it sound like reality is starting to hit him now that he has slowed down since our conversation on Friday?<P>Do you think by me listing me needs before I can let him move back in could have got his wheels turning?<P>I don't think my needs that I listed were very unreasonable. Here are some of the things I have said that I needed.<P>1. When he comes back, he needs to show me that he is willing to give 110% effort into our relationship.<P>2. He needs to start including me back into his life.<P>3. He needs to make time for me and him to do things alone once in a while.<P>4. He needs to spend more time with me and the kids as a family.<P>5. He needs to start sleeping in the bedroom again.<P>6. He needs to show me affection (holding hands, kissing, hugging)<P>7. He needs to be able to tell me when there is a problem instead of holding it in for 8 years. Which is another reason we are where we are at today. He bottled everything up for so long that he just couldn't take it anymore.<P>These are just a few of the things that I need back from my husband that he started taking away from me one by one everytime we would have a fight. I have owned up to my half of the problems and am continuing to work on them daily.<P>I am continuing my Plan A and it I think it is going very well. If any of you can give me anymore insight, that would be greatly appreciated.<P>Thanks.<P>Michele

Hi Michele...<P>Your list definitely sounds reasonable to me... in fact, I may borrow that list. Gosh, it's unbelievable how our spouses sound so familiar... however, I'm under the same roof as he is so he doesn't feel the pain of separation like your H does... he gets the benefit of an in house babysitter... good and bad. A chance to Plan A but no chance for building a marriage.<P>So, how does your H respond to "ultimatums"... though I'd like to be able to do this... it would have the reverse effect I'm afaid... *who do you think you are to place your demands on me?* kind of thing... Obviously, your H has more feelings for you than mine does for me. OH well...<P>Keep up your boundaries... not in the way of keeping him out... just protect your heart or as scripture says "guard your heart for it is the well spring of life." Basically, you need to know (your list) what it takes to preserve the love (any love) that you have left for your H - that preservation process is setting your boundaries.<P>Hang in there... keep us posted. I think his tears are good news! BE PREPARED TO RE-ENTER THE CONFLICT STAGE! It will come... but you've got to make a plan that is DIFFERENT from the way you handled conflictual things before. It has to be effective this time.<P>And what is UP with people who hold in things until they blow! That is my H to a TEE - we're still dealing with things from 5 years ago... can't wait until we get to the most recent years... gosh... God has given you big shoulders if you use Him to work-out with... You can do ALL things through Christ who gives you strength!<P>Take care!<P>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>"You will deceive yourself into believing that if people, circumstances, and events had been different, your pain would not exist...Your pain is the concrete way in which you participate in the pain of humanity."</I> <BR>~ Henri Nouwen ~

Yeah, what's up with that anyway?<P>Michele, I loved the list, too. I always hesitate to use more than 100%, but I think that you have made your point.<P>Don't move too soon...I know that you want to, but listen to Nicole. My XW is back at the conflict stage...big time. I am glad to hear that your time away was good, and productive. Things did not go so well this weekend for me, or for Jacky...so, its one step forward, and two back. Which reminds me...be careful for a while. Try not to put too much meaning on anything, one way or the other. You will not hurt anything by being careful, plus it may get him thinking more, too.<P>I am very happy for you! God bless. -Mike

Nicole, you are welcome to my list anytime and Mike, I used 110% since he was already only giving about 10% to work our problems out, I think when he does come back, he owes me another 100%.<P>Just a little update -- After he called yesterday afternoon crying and sad, he called me two more times last night just to talk and say hi. There was no talk about our relationship, he just wanted to talk about his weekend and wanted to know what me and the kids had been up to all weekend because I guess he tried to call is a couple of times and there was no answer. Anyways, I asked him if he was comfortable at our friends house that he is staying at and he said no. I asked if he needed anything else from the house and he said NO. I asked if he even had a TV to watch over there and he said no, he just goes straight to his room and lays on the bed. I offered him one of our TV's and he said I do not want to bring a TV over here.<P>I think him spending time alone is really starting to get him thinking. I sure hope so. My heart goes out to him because he seems so scared and lost and there is nothing I can do to help him. Me and the kids sure do miss him (the old him) and I hope he finds that person again.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sballplyr:<BR><B>My heart goes out to him because he seems so scared and lost and there is nothing I can do to help him. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think you're right on track with your husband and how you've handling things. Sure it hurts to watch a loved one go through trying times but you know that without him experiencing these trials he will not be able to look at the big picture and make fogless decisions. It sounds like he really is beginning to do some soul searching.<P>Take it slow and don't sell yourself short. I know this is hard on everyone but in order to achieve a better marriage patience must be applied.<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers from the Braid Master<P><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Michele DO NOT MISS THIS <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>he called me two more times last night just to talk and say hi. There was no talk about our relationship, he just wanted to talk about his weekend and wanted to know what me and the kids had been up to all weekend because I guess he tried to call is a couple of times and there was no answer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Did you KNOW that conversation is one of his emotional needs? Just converse with him, please... no psychoanalysis... just converse as if he's a friend and not your H. That will bring him back. Just chit chat... let HIM take the lead on emotional things, and then remember what I said to you before on another post about identifying things as fear, pain or frustration and NOT responding with anger.<P>I'm following this closely as it so mirrors my own situation and just getting it out to you really helps me focus as well!<P>All the best...<BR>Nicole<P>ps - let us know how it goes tonight... just chit chat, NO expectations. Be kind... he was ONCE drawn to you for your ability to converse with him... draw him in again! You CAN do this... and YOU WILL love him again! Here's hoping!<P>------------------<BR><I>"You will deceive yourself into believing that if people, circumstances, and events had been different, your pain would not exist...Your pain is the concrete way in which you participate in the pain of humanity."</I> <BR>~ Henri Nouwen ~<P>[This message has been edited by OvrCs (edited August 27, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by OvrCs (edited August 27, 2001).]

Thanks Nicole.<P>I am trying to just be there for him when he wants to talk. I have left all initial contact up to him. When he first left, I would try and find reasons to call him but now I don't. I don't even send him any pages letting him know that I am thinking about him. We used to talk all the time and then that died out about 6 months ago. I am definitely not trying to psychoanalyze him anymore. At first, before he moved out, I found myself doing that a lot. Now, I just listen to him and if he asks anything about me, I share it with him.<P>I am curious how tonight will go. As I said before, he is coming to get the kids for a while but I am sure he wants to stay around for dinner but is probably scared. I will keep conversation simple and only answer questions if he asks. Thanks for you input.<P>I will keep all of you posted on how it does go tonight. I just hope that when he is ready to come home, he won't be to PROUD to ask. I have expressed to him several times that he is welcome to come back anytime as long as he is willing to meet my needs as described above.<P>Michele

Here is an update of last nights events. I believe the evening went quite well. When I got home from work, he was still at the house with the kids which was nice because I felt like he was waiting to see me before he left with the kids for a couple of hours. Anyway, he complimented me on my new hairstyle and colors and said I looked really good. I said thank you and returned the compliment because he too, looked really good and his face looked really relaxed. Well since he left with the kids I took advantage of the quiet time and got some errands run and then I went to the store to buy stuff for dinner. Which I still wasn't sure if he was staying or not but thought I would make enough of one of his favorite meals just in case. When the kids and him got back I continued with everything that I was doing around the house and he and I just had basic simple conversation. It was really nice. When he saw what I was making for dinner, he asked if there was enough for him and I said sure. Wow, I got through that hurdle because I didn't want to keep asking him if he was staying because I didn't want him to think I was pushing. He ate dinner with us and stayed for another 2 hours and then decided it was time for him to go. When he was leaving, he started to look sad. I walked him out to his car and he thanked me for dinner and being able to hang out with me and the kids and he told me he had a nice time. I told him the same and that it really meant a lot to me and the kids. We said goodbye and he drove off.<P>So this morning when I get to work, there was a message from my husband letting me know again that he really enjoyed last night spending it with me and the kids and how nice it was. He said it four times in his message he left me and also said in his message that he was going to call me last night and let me know how nice it was for him but he fell asleep. His message was very upbeat and I could tell that last night really meant a lot to him. He ended his message with and "I will see you tonight at soccer practice". You could almost here the excitement in his voice when he said that.<P>I really think my Plan A is starting to work for me. So since he thought I looked really good yesterday, I think I will go shopping at lunch and find a new casual outfit for me to wear to soccer practice. You know, just to see if he notices.<P>Michele<P>

You go GIRL!!!<P><BR>That is awesome. Remember a couple weeks ago when we were talking about baby steps. All of these little steps are starting to lead back to the path of happiness. I'm so happy for you. As always, TAKE IT SLOW and yes get that new outfit today, one that will knock his socks off.....<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers from Mid America<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Another quick little update. I bought the new outfit that I talked about in my previous post and it really caught his eyes. He complimented several times and said I looked really good. He kept asking me what was different about me and I said nothing really. I have lost a complete dress size since the separation so maybe that is what he is noticing and let's just say that since I have lost the weight I have become even more confident in showing off what God gave me. The shirt I bought was a little more revealing and tight fitting than I usually wear so it really caught his attention. He couldn't quit talking about how good I looked. YIPPEE!! Hopefully another small baby step.<P>We drove to our daughters soccer practice together at his invitation. This is the first time since the separation that we have gone anywhere together. Again, another small baby step for my husband/me.<P>Michele<p>[This message has been edited by sballplyr (edited August 28, 2001).]

Work it girl!!!!!!!<P>Why do I feel like a gay man when I say that??<P>Anyway, yes step step step step.....<P>Soon with all these steps there will come a fork in the road for your H to choose a direction. Pray that the Lord shall soften his heart so that his decision shall be wise.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Thanks Bill.<P>I don't know why do you feel like a gay man when you say that? <P>I do hope that all these little baby steps do soften his heart again and guide him back to me and the kids. He sure is coming around a lot more since his move back into our city.<P>

Michele...<P>Oh, your story sounds so good! I'm so happy that he's responding to your Plan A! God is good! Yeah, I'm with Bill... "work it bay-bee!" You gotta do what ya gotta do... and especially if it's to please that MAN of yours.<P>Now, I'm still holding out and hoping on my case... but it's been so long now that it's likely a lost cause.<P>But, now I'm inspired by what you wrote!<P>Take care and keep us posted!<P>Cheers!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>"You will deceive yourself into believing that if people, circumstances, and events had been different, your pain would not exist...Your pain is the concrete way in which you participate in the pain of humanity."</I> <BR>~ Henri Nouwen ~

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR><B>Now, I'm still holding out and hoping on my case... but it's been so long now that it's likely a lost cause.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Well, Miss Nicole, have you tried "working it" bay-bee. But seriously, hope is a terrible thing to lose and dear don't give it up until you are ready. God is good and I'm quite sure that He/She (politically correct) has a plan with a happy ending for our Amazonian Goddess.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Michele, you are doing great...keep it up! I don't have too much time, and the phone is supposed to be disconnected today, but I wanted to say that you are really gaining some serious ground, I'm impressed. -Mike

Well, I think my husband and I have hit a little backslide. Things have been going really good between us until last night. You see, we still play softball together on Thursdays and I have been in a great mood all week because of the great progress he and I have been making. Last night when he showed up to the game, he didn't even say Hi to me until about 10 minutes after he got there. He walked up to everyone else and said Hi and gave them all hugs and he barely gave me a nod hello. Well, this started to upset me a little bit so I just walked away from the crowd to get my thoughts together so I wouldn't LB. It wasn't until then that he came up to me and said WHAT'S WRONG. ARRRRGGGHHH! I hate that question as you all know I had a thread about that a while back. Anyway, I told him nothing was wrong and then he and I had a great conversation about our days at work and the kids. We were laughing and conversing, it was so nice. I thought, WHEW, I was able to forget about the HI/HUG thing. Well, after our conversation was over, he continued to ask WHAT'S WRONG about 3 more times so I finally told him. Well, that started it. He said "I can never do enough for you", "I never do anything the right way". All I was simply trying to tell him is that it hurts me that he is able to hug all of these other friends and acquaintences but he can't hug me. Why do I let this bother me so much?<P>So, as the game goes on, between innings, we kept talking about everything. He said he doesn't know why he doesn't hug me but that he just wants to take things real slow right now. Then he had to point out that we are SEPARATED. I, unfortunately said "so because we are separated you are allowed to treat me like I don't exist". He then said "You know what, I am DONE trying, I am never going to do anything how you want it and I am just to frustrated to keep trying". Great, what do I do now. After the game, we were able to finally finish our conversation and he did tell me that he is not done trying but he just gets so frustrated that I just can't accept the good things that have been happening this week and that I always have to pull a negative out of the good and also that I always want more to happen than what he can give right now. He is so right. Why can't I just accept things for what they are right now? Oh, I know, because I am so in love with my husband and even though he tells me he is still in love with me and wants to work this out, he always has to point out that we are SEPARATED. I told him if he could show me a little more encouragement, then I would know I was doing it right. He said he thought he was by calling and coming around more and you know what, HE WAS RIGHT and I just couldn't accept that. Why is this one of my faults I can't seem to get through? Why did I have to blow Plan A last night?<P>I must say that the conversation ended okay. I did ask him why everything had to be on his terms right now and he couldn't answer that. I also tried to explain to him that I too get very frustrated and that is why I tried to walk away and clear my head last night to avoid this discussion but he kept pressing me. He did agree.<P>I just don't know what to think right now. I am so sad today because a part of me just wants to give up and let him go because I know I keep hurting him by not accepting all the postives.

My wife and I have ups and downs, and she hasn't even told me she wants the marriage to work, the way your H has told you. One of the things that keeps me sane (or has so far) is the knowledge that the process won't be continual improvement- according to everything I've heard and read, it's three steps forward, two steps back, etc. <P>My mom and dad spent several years dealing with his unhappiness, and then, after he had recommitted himself to the marriage, another few years dealing with hers. Through it all, my mom says, there were good and bad days, but if she looked at it a month at a time, things generally got better.<BR>

Thanks for the input Train.<P>Today I just feel that all the positives steps that have happened over the last week are now all blown because of last night and I will and have accepted full responsibilty for part of the backslide. I sometimes think I would be better off beating my head against a wall because that's how I feel when trying to communicate my feelings/issues with my husband right now. He seems to also only pull the negatives out of the things that I am trying to express to him.

Okay, here is a quick update. My husband just called me to apologize for getting so mad at me last night. It really means a lot to me that he was able to apologize. I too returned the apology for my behavior last night. Then we had a simple conversation. It was very nice and has given me hope again.<P>After I posted this morning, I decided that I did not want to deal with this today and just gave it to God. God seemed to have acted quickly for me today to give me a sign not to give up so easily on working this through with my husband. I asked God to give me the strength today and I believe he has.<P>It is amazing what the word "I'm Sorry" can do for you.<P>Thank you all for listening.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sballplyr:<BR>My husband just called me to apologize for getting so mad at me last night. It really means a lot to me that he was able to apologize. I too returned the apology for my behavior last night. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is excellent news. Glad to hear it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> It is amazing what the word "I'm Sorry" can do for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And the words "I forgive you" work wonders as well...<P>