<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bellevue:<BR><B>Hello Faithful,<P>Jumping in late here, been away on vacation.<P>Does your BATNA involve staying for a week or so in a residential hotel? You could pay by the week and not be committed to a six month lease. Just a thought.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, my domestic goddess, I have considered the idea of a residential hotel; however, at the price of about $300/week, I could rent a whole HOUSE! haha Sometimes a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do, but I wouldn't want to stay at a residential hotel very long. That's a big drain on a paycheck!<P>In reality, that is my most likely short-term backup course, because I could pay by the week or month. The problem is that I do not want to be moving in and out, in and out, in and out. I think that would be counterproductive, not healing, and I think that would just be dancing the same old dance steps. I need to do new dance steps now. In the event of needing to escape for emergency-type reasons, I have made a "safety plan" and I know what to do in that eventuality too. I HATE that I have to even think like that, but at this point, I do. <P>Thanks for the tip, though. For anyone else who's reading that might be trying to think of options, there's also furnished apartments, executive housing, and extended stay suites that could be a longer term solution that one night. Just in case ya need it!<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ThornedRose:<BR><B>CJ,<P>While you two are seperated...are you going out on dates together? I mean...like does he call you a week in advance <BR>and say hey would you like to go to dinner and a movie next saturday? or go to the park and have a picnic? or have you called him to do that? I say a week in advance because you have kids..and that would give you time to get a sitter, and maybe make reservations if your going to dinner.. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> No. While we were separated I came over to his house almost every night to eat some dinner and spend time with the kids. He asked if I wanted to eat with them, and then he'd act just like I still lived there and it wasn't anything special. Lots of times I wished that he make a little bit of an "event" out of it, like make something special, set the table with china and candles, or somehow acknowledge that the fact that I was there was an opportunity to show me how much I meant to him. About the only time he acted like I meant ANYTHING was when I would go to my house for a couple of days or get the kids and not spend time with him. Then, suddenly he would act a little more attentive for a day or so. I have been back home now for about a week, and so far this week we have been apart for four of the seven days, and the other three days were Labor Day weekend! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>...maybe meet for lunch or something?? or coffee?? or even get a sitter one night after the kids are in bed..and then go meet someplace for a 1:00 am breakfast....or even rent a movie that you'd both like to see..and invite him over to watch it with you one night after the kids are in bed..(or see about the kids staying the night at a friends house)get a comedy or something that you will both be able to laugh at..</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow. Great ideas! I thought it would be fun to just "be buddies" with him, like go to a football game, do some yardwork together, go to the Alpine Slide together...stuff like that. But somehow it's like he doesn't reciprocate, and that makes me feel so taken for granted. <P>Even while he's been on his most recent "business trip" he went out to a downtown restaurant/shops/bars/lofts type area in Toronto and stayed out playing until 1:30am! Then today, Saturday, he went out again for lunch and ended up "touring around the town" all day and night until 11pm!! See, he CAN go out and have fun--just not with me, I guess.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> And who knows..after a couple of "date" nights it could get better...and I'd also add..that you should make it known that if he's to come over to your home..then he's not going to stay the night..and if you go to his home that you won't be staying the night..that way there is no presure..and make it like a real date..like your just getting to know each other..and you wouldn't want to have sex w/ someone your just getting to know right away... </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Geez, TR, you and I think a lot alike. I would have LOVED for him to appreciate the fact that I spent so much time around him--to act like it was an opportunity to date me--to behave a little bit like the old days when we were dating--to make out a little but not go too far--to do those little nice things and thoughtful things to make me feel great, ya know? He feels that he needs to put all his energy into working on his anger and raging, and that right now he can't put any energy into "pursuing me." <P>HOWEVER, he has done a very, VERY good job working on his anger management. He talks with me now instead of talking TO me. He listens to what I'm saying. He doesn't immediately attack first and THEN find out that I didn't mean it that way. He even tries to validate my feelings and be comforting. Soooo...I thought that some encouragement was in order--a tangible way to acknowledge that I recognize all his work--and I moved back home last weekend. We spent Labor Day weekend together and then he was off on this business trip, so not much has happened since then. <P><BR>[This message has been edited by ThornedRose (edited September 07, 2001).][/B][/QUOTE]<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ,<P>I believe the reason we think so much alike is through past<BR>experiences. So I will ask you a few questions here..<P>You'd said before that during a recent convversation that<BR>he asked you about the abuse..(and then he fell asleep)<BR>I understand that hurt, he may as well have gone to the moon<BR>for all the comfort that gives you..<P>But, since he is working on his anger management--what <BR>are you doing to work on dealing with your own past abuse? <BR>I know that you've worked through some of the things..I can see that--but what about the core deep to the soul hurts?<BR>Not necessarilly caused by him, but by others, that his anger would trigger those emotional roller coasters inside yourself. I know that it is best to have a safe person to share these memories with, and I will advice you..that as<BR>you work on these things it will cause conflict in your current relationship, because YOUR changing, I guess thats<BR>why so many people don't want to deal with these issues.<BR> <BR>I believe that was one of the many things that has caused my marriage to end up where it is today..I had to face these issues, and I thought (foolishly) that he was a safe person<BR>to share these hurts and pains with, only to find that he is not capable of that, not because he can't, but because it would cause him to have to look within himself and would require change on his part and he doesn't believe he needs to change, there is NOTHING wrong with Him.. <P>When we begin to heal the hurts of the past, it's a process,<BR>(yes, I have shared this before in another post w/ Nyv, but I feel that it is worth repeating, for those who may not have read the abuse thread) I say it is a process,<BR>because it's like our hearts have many levels, and the hurts are on many levels..some are recent hurts, some happened many many years ago, as we heal, we have to start at the top<BR>layer, those most recent hurts, those are caused by the person we are closest to now, so as we heal from these we<BR>get angry that these people hurt us, so we tell them, what you did hurt me in this way..IF they can handle the truth<BR>and know a healthy way to recieve this information, they will say, I am sorry that I hurt you this way and help you through that pain, if they don't they lash out in anger even more..causing more hurts..if they accept the truth and help you through that time, then it's easier to share the next level of pain with them. if they can't help you work through that pain then you feel even more isolated from them and don't want to share with them anymore, so you withdrawl<BR>(which is a good reason to have a counselor and support group to help you during this time, a safe people to share with) when you feel safe in sharing the next level of hurts<BR>you begin to heal there, then on to the next level and so forth. Each level has different areas to face, from friendships broken to past relationships with other men, <BR>even your family members, this also includes people in your past that you have hurt by your words, or actions. I guess you can say, judging yourself before God, and allowing God to heal those things within your heart..If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins..yes, we could give a blanket prayer, God forgive me of my sins, and yes, I believe that He does, but I feel facing this brings a closer more intimate relationship with Christ, in realizing just how MUCH He really has forgiven us. And it helps us<BR>to grow emotionally, and spirtually. But, hey thats just my <BR>opinion..from what I have been through...and it also goes with the if we are at the alter and remember our brother has something against us, or that we have something against our brother we are to go and seek forgiveness and then come back..and these hurts that are so deep inside our hearts that they still effect how we handle relationships..<BR>"childish ways" and as we mature we are to put away childish ways of thinking..and dealing with things..but until we learn how we can't..and growing up in an unhealthy home<BR>of abuse, we weren't taught those things..we went from childhood to adulthood in a matter of minutes..without all the growing up years in between..<P>which is why God gives us those teenage years..and the struggles inside during those years..(teenage rebellion) they are trying to learn a healthy independence from their parents..trying to learn to trust their own instincts..and their own choices..yet, as they go through this time..they want to know that they still have a safe place to go..their<BR>parents..if they have a question or problem and need advice..but if we don't know how to be there for them because of our own internal problems..we won't understand just what it is they are needing to grow up and be healthy adults..<P>I want to give my children more than I had as a child..and I don't mean material things..I mean I want them to have an adults understanding..I want them to be prepared emotionally and spiritually for the world they will be living in..and I can't do that..if "I" do not understand it myself..so I have faced the struggles during the past few years that I should have faced during my teenage years..only I haven't had my parents there for guidance..I have had only to trust in God for that understanding..and as I write this..I realize that I was also looking for my stbxh to help me grow in this understanding..and as my husband and NOT my parent..he couldn't do this...just as I fear, you may be doing without realizing that you are..looking for him to help in understanding things you should have learned in your younger years..and since our spouses came from unhealthy backgrounds as well, they also lack this understanding..<P>Okay..now that I see this..I need to talk to him later..<BR>and apologize to him for trying to look for something from him that wasn't his responsibility to provide...<BR>

Hi CJ<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Just checking in to give you more hugs.<P>Your wishes for how your H would act towards you are shared by us all here...oh for the glory days of love and affection that made us fall in love with them in the first place. <P>I think I told you my h went to Canada for ten days shortly after A1...that was whe OW was calling me...I phoned and told him I wouldn't be here when he got back. But for some reason I stayed...now I wish I had gone, it would have made more impact because he didn't want me to go then; BEGGED me not to over long distance for ages.<P>So I made my stupid bed, lay in it and he did it again.<P>Anyway at least you're not getting calls from a distraught OW who lost contat with him and got so desperate she rang the house.<P>So when is he back? What are you going to do when he does get back? So...how about greeting him like you really missed him? Meet him at the door in sexy lingerie, candlelit dinner, etc...just a thought. That's what I planned to do before the calls. And ignore his poor behaviour, lack of calls etc.<P>You know the drill, and I know you're at a point where you just don't feel like putting in all the effort, but hey, it might even make you feel better.<P>Take care CJ, thinking of you!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ThornedRose:<BR><B> I believe the reason we think so much alike is through past experiences. So I will ask you a few questions here..<P>You'd said before that during a recent conversation that<BR>he asked you about the abuse..(and then he fell asleep)<BR>I understand that hurt, he may as well have gone to the moon<BR>for all the comfort that gives you..</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Just so we are clear here, my H knew about what had happened to me and knew some of the details (such as being hit and beat up by my parents, watching my parents beat up on each other, my dad's alcoholism and my mom's insanity), but he didn't know some details that were sort of bothering him. I started off by answering some questions, and then just continued from there. The thing that bothered me was that if I asked someone deeply painful questions like that, I would suspect that, if they answered them truthfully, it would stir up some old memories and make them feel like "yucky." Thus, I would have at least liked some "down time" where we talked about something else pleasant OR some "snuggle time" to help recover and get back settled down. It was very hard to lay down and try to go to sleep with visions of beatings in my head and before my eyes. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> ...since he is working on his anger management--what are you doing to work on dealing with your own past abuse? I know that you've worked through some of the things..I can see that--but what about the core deep to the soul hurts? Not necessarilly caused by him, but by others, that his anger would trigger those emotional roller coasters inside yourself. I know that it is best to have a safe person to share these memories with, and I will advice you..that as you work on these things it will cause conflict in your current relationship, because YOUR changing, I guess thats why so many people don't want to deal with these issues/ </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, TR, I certainly second THAT emotion. I went to personal counseling for about three and a half years directly relating to this whole abuse issue. To describe what happened in three years would be pitiful, but let's just say that we did cover remembering what happened (in more detail), talking to myself (I call that, "Self Messages"), how my changing will affect my marriage, how to share my hurts with others, how to feel again!!! (THAT was a biggie!), and how to listen to myself for good messages. My counselor gave me a great analogy of what it is like when one partner in a marriage goes through these kind of life-changing changes. Each partner is like an island, and between the two islands is a bridge, that represents the way the relation works. When one partner goes through changes, it is like one of the islands moves. Invariably, the bridge is affected--it is partially damaged and it can not be rebuilt "the way it was". So the other partner/island has to decide if it wants to destroy the bridge, fix the bridge, build a new bridge, or ignore the damage and keep going with a broken bridge. <P>Years after that counseling and during the time when my H left, I started to attend a women's anger support group. No! We did not support each other being angry!! haha We were all in different places in our lives--some single, some married, some separated, some divorced, some youngsters, some oldies, some dealing with drugs and alcohol--but the one thing we all had in common was that we all felt that anger was affecting our lives. We learned about our own anger and how to deal with it more effectively, like how to recognize the physical symptoms of anger, how to speak assertively and not aggressively (or passively), how to fight fairly...you get the idea. But we also learned how to deal with OTHER anger in our lives, like misplaced anger from our spouses -or- anger within us that came from past experiences. It's silly, I know, but I have a little form that I fill out the day after an event that MAKES me think about what happened, what was the real issues, whose problem is the real issue, was some anger appropriate, what can I do better next time, etc. Hey, it works for me!<P>Right now, I'd have to honestly say that I am mostly reading books, going over the anger management stuff with my H as he comes home from his class, filling out my form and listening to the "Self Messages". [/b][/quote]<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> I believe that was one of the many things that has caused my marriage to end up where it is today..I had to face these issues, and I thought (foolishly) that he was a safe person to share these hurts and pains with, only to find that he is not capable of that, not because he can't, but because it would cause him to have to look within himself and would require change on his part and he doesn't believe he needs to change, there is NOTHING wrong with Him.. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ditto. I believe this was also a major cause of the problems in my marriage. I'd have to honestly say that until about a month ago, my H was unwilling to admit within himself that he needed to change. Now, I'm not sure and I'm hesitant, but I think he may have realized within himself that there is something wrong. Unfortunately, the part that I didn't realize was that he was an unsafe person to share my hurts and pains with (yet). I think I was partially HOPEFUL and partially too eager and jumped in too soon. Nonetheless the result is the same: he's not a safe person yet. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> When we begin to heal the hurts of the past, it's a process, (yes, I have shared this before in another post w/ Nyv, but I feel that it is worth repeating, for those who may not have read the abuse thread) I say it is a process, because it's like our hearts have many levels, and the hurts are on many levels..some are recent hurts, some happened many many years ago, as we heal, we have to start at the top layer, those most recent hurts, those are caused by the person we are closest to now, so as we heal from these we get angry that these people hurt us, so we tell them, what you did hurt me in this way..IF they can handle the truth and know a healthy way to recieve this information, they will say, I am sorry that I hurt you this way and help you through that pain, if they don't they lash out in anger even more..causing more hurts..</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OUCH!! You are so right. That's why I'm in my little bubble right now--because of the lashing out and causing more hurts. I feel like a fool because I keep hoping he'll be safe, and I keep trying again and again when I already know the answer. Know what I mean? I guess I just keep hoping that he'll respond in a healthy way! I better learn my lesson, huh?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> if they accept the truth and help you through that time, then it's easier to share the next level of pain with them. if they can't help you work through that pain then you feel even more isolated from them and don't want to share with them anymore, so you withdrawl (which is a good reason to have a counselor and support group to help you during this time, a safe people to share with) when you feel safe in sharing the next level of hurts you begin to heal there, then on to the next level and so forth. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ding...ding...ding. You are right on the money. THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I FEEL LIKE I DO. And you know what kills me? I don't want to withdraw and close off, but if I DON'T I get hurt and if I DO I feel ashamed. BUT, as I have said so many times before, this is actually one area in which I am extremely blessed. I think God knew that I was going to need my friends one day and made me an INFP just for that reason. I have lady friends here in town that are my very good friends; I have friends at work who actually care about me, not just as a co-worker, but as a person; I have friends from my anger group who understand and aren't judgemental; and I have you MB friends--and believe it or not, there are a lot of you! So I am happy to say that I have been able to learn to find support and caring from resources other than my marriage. It's just that I wish my main source was my marriage, and it's not, and that makes me feel sad.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> ..and as I write this..I realize that I was also looking for my stbxh to help me grow in this understanding..and as my husband and NOT my parent..he couldn't do this...just as I fear, you may be doing without realizing that you are..looking for him to help in understanding things you should have learned in your younger years..and since our spouses came from unhealthy backgrounds as well, they also lack this understanding..<P>Okay..now that I see this..I need to talk to him later..<BR>and apologize to him for trying to look for something from him that wasn't his responsibility to provide...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You know, TR, that is a very good point. I am going to have to give that some more consideration, because even though I may WISH for it all I want, it may not be his responsibility. Maybe I am supposed to learn this lesson or do this growth by myself. Hmmm...<P>I will think about this and write to you more about it later.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.