Hi,<P>I really don't mean to sound sexist or anything so don't take it that way. I understand why many of the men here would fight like heck, I really do and hope you win. <P>But I guess are there other reasons? Like, is it common for some men to want custody just to get out of child support. Or, is it maybe a possession thing (of course, I'm talking about controlling type betrayers, not the guys here).<P>I have an irrational reason for asking and that is because I've met someone who just happens to be fighting for custody of his 3 children. I don't know much about this person other than he was really nice to talk to - but there's that distrusting part of me that still says "Agh, a man, run for the hills!!". My first instinct seems to be to find out what's wrong with this man - even tho he seems to be a sweetie and I know he's interested. Is that what I'm doing? Maybe it just means I need more time. All I know is I will never even look at a man who has ever cheated before and don't want to be fooled again, and I don't want to think he must be a wonderful person if there are actually reasons why a guy would do this that are not so noble. <P>I feel like my head is so messed up that I'll never ever have a normal relationship.<P>------------------<BR>Kathy<p>[This message has been edited by weirded out (edited August 28, 2001).]

Kathy, Ohio attorney here that represents primarily women. I'm not going to answer this in great detail now, maybe later. Part of my response, even though I usually oppose these guys is why not? I know we always think mothers are best suited for raising children but that's not always the case. I have seen many times where men are more responsible than women in taking care of kids. Need to more of the story. However, I am always amused by men that want custody because they don't like paying child support and feel it would be cheaper. Poor rationale for wanting kids for one thing and second, if you do an analysis of support guidelines, both parents actually pay anyway. One pays to the other and there is no point in withholding money from the other (custodial parent) to be paid right back to that person. The fascinating part is if they get custody, their overall obligation, although they don't see it come out of their check, does not decrease and many times they find out receiving support is not sufficient and the cost of having children in the household is greater than they thought. Gotta run right now-may come back on this. Try to find out more facts about the mother, father, how they do with the kids, etc. It's supposed to be about the best interests of the kids-where their day to day needs will best be met. Sometimes that truly is with the father. Lee

I fought for my kids. Even the one that is not biologically mine. There are many reasons 'people' fight for kids. Sadly money is one of them. Personally I felt my life to be more stable and therefore a better environment for my kids. She sees them everyday, but every night when the time comes to do homework, eat dinner, take baths, go to bed, wake up, get ready for school, going to school, they will always know that their Dad has and always be there for them. Consistently.<P>I am their rock because they are mine.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.<p>[This message has been edited by Paul Moyers (edited August 28, 2001).]

Hi,<P>Thanks Paul and Lee-bear, like I said - I know those reasons and totally believe there are men who are truly better suited. I had to revise what I originally wrote because I don't want to come off like I disagree with men fighting for custody and I hate the fact that the deck is usually stacked against you. It is very unfair. I guess I'm thinking in terms of men because it's an uphill battle to begin with for them to fight and the person I know happens to be a man - and I just wondered if the reasons for fighting are good most of the time, or is there a lot of underhanded reasons most of the time.<P>I guess this is kind of a stupid question and maybe I'm just trying to find out if there is a reason I shouldn't think this person is pretty cool. Wow, lots of trust issues in me still.<P>By the way, Paul, did you win? <P>------------------<BR>Kathy<BR><p>[This message has been edited by weirded out (edited August 28, 2001).]

Yes, you sound sexist. I fought like heck. It had nothing to do with money. It had more to do with developing the proper relationship with my 5 yr. old daughter, a relationship that was only beginning to form. Now she lives 3 hours away from me and I only see her every other weekend, 20.9% if you read the agreement. She already has indicated that she would like to live with Daddy. He rmother's world is one of "things". How many bobbles can I accumulate? What item on this catalog page don't I have?<P>My daughter and I "do" things. We go to the beach, we go canoeing, we go to exhibits, museums, etc..... Her mother dumps her off at her mother's or sister's and goes out partying with the boys.<P>Try to open your mind! Maybe go rent Kramer vs. Kramer.

Don't jump on me so easily. Like I said before, the question is more because the person I know is a man and the deck is usually stacked against men in the first place. You totally misunderstand my meaning.<P>I usually don't get my thoughts thru exactly how I mean it and usually end up getting someone bent - I hope the best for you and I know you didn't ask for it and were dealt a hand you didn't deserve. I really do understand believe it or not. I guess the question comes more out of my distrust for my instincts that this guy I know has to be a good guy. My head keeps saying to me that he CAN'T be, that there must be something else to it. I can only hope that he is the kind of man that you and Paul are (and you too Lee-bear) because that is the only kind of man I ever want anything to do with again - and I truly hope that if he is that kind of man-that he wins big time.<P>Take care and thanks for responding.<P>------------------<BR>Kathy

The custodial parent almost always ends up paying way more than half the support of the children - like a couple hundred dollars a week comes close to half of what it takes to support 5-6 kids. Yeah, right. <P>You'd have to be nuts to think you'd save money by having custody.

I am currently in an uphill battle with my x-wife for primary custody of our 3 daughter in an extremely conservative court system. Why you ask, because it's what's best for my girls and it's what they want. It has nothing to do with control, power, or monetary items. It has everything to do with honesty, love, affection, best interest of the children, and the fact that in stereotypical terms "I was the mother of our house".<P>We are not all greedy control freak pricks, not that you implied that in any way, just another stereotype that doesn't fit me.<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

I know what you mean Nellie! I guess I read something Lee had written in a post a while back (may have even been a response to me) that said people do that. Ya, it really doesn't make sense does it, unless of course someone makes a large salary and doesn't want any of it to go to the custodial parent just out of spite. I actually have had experience with this being the case also, with my youngest sister whose husband was a very possessive person who would not let her make a phone call without clearing it with him first, and fought for custody because he wanted to drive her her into the ground and leave her with nothing including losing her daughter. My sister was not the cheater and is a sweetheart, the kindest person I know but she has a mental illness (which is controlled by medicine and he also has, which he doesn't take medication for). So I know this is done and I don't mean to make it a "man thing" - just came out that way because the person I know is a man, but from here on in I guess I should say people like it was suggested earlier.<P>------------------<BR>Kathy<p>[This message has been edited by weirded out (edited August 28, 2001).]

I have three children - ages 13-10-8 the oldest wants to live with me and so does the middle child. My wife filed for divorce after meeting OM who is going through a divorce as well. Gave her money for her retainer. Well she is never home and drinks too much. We never see her. The children don't understand why. At first I was hurt, now I realize that for the last 4 years she has gone from one affair to an other. My life will be much better off without her in it. I now feel liberated and happy. If she had given this marriage as much attention as she gave her private life, gym and boyfriends we would of been very happy. We were married for 16 years and now she is a stranger to me.<BR>Back to my children, I want them with me and they feel the same way. My wife is becoming more attentive after three years of abandonment. She knows that she will be losing the children, certainly if the oldest does not want to be with her. I need advice on this.... Anyone<BR>

I'm sorry Bill, I'll add you to my prayers. You are right, I'm not implying that at all. I'm just trying to go thru the thought processes of a messed up, divorce tired, Plan A/Plan B'd to death weary, and now completely distrusting mind - when I used to love and trust everyone. I only have skepticism left as a byproduct. I hope this guy is really a cool guy like the rest of you here. I've always said (well, to my close friends) that I hope to find a man that has custody of his kids or at least fought like he** to get them. And now that I may have found one, I put up the walls again and try to find a reason for it not to be true.<P>Again, probably just an indication that I really need more time to be on my own more than anything.<P>Take care Bill.<P>------------------<BR>Kathy

kathy,<P>have you asked him why he's fighting for custody?<BR>whats the story w/ their relationship? was he the one <BR>who cared for the kids most of the time? what is his<BR>relationship to his kids? whats their mothers relationship<BR>to them? whats the reason for their break-up..has he looked at himself and things that he did wrong in the marriage that it got to that point?<P>

Hi Thorned,<P>Yes those are the questions! We talked for such a short time and no I didn't get into anything that personal. I wonder if I'd believe him anyway - I'm so tainted right now. He did mention he was planning to homeschool, but that's about it. How do we ever get past our bad experiences to ever trust again, I just don't know. I find myself overanalyzing every aspect so as to never make such a huge mistake ever again. I do not want to be anyone's fool again.<P>Prayed for you all tonight already during my walk. Night!<P>------------------<BR>Kathy

I’m getting custody because they are my children. We wanted them, I’m gonna raise ‘em. Has NOTHING to do with child support, anger, or anything else but love.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

I’m back.<P>This question really has me perplexed. I guess the question I should ask is, “Why wouldn’t a man fight for custody of his children?”<P>Sort of like, “Congratulations! You won the Lotto! How come you won’t go get the money?”<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

I'll throw in my two bits.<P>The first night my W moved out, I was too exhausted to think - so I slept (I had rented a truck and done all the moving). The second night after my W and baby moved out, I lay on the floor and cried all night. I missed my daughter much more than my W. If I didn't think my W was a great mom and really the best for the child right now, you can bet I would be fighting for custody. As it turns out, it looks like we're getting back together (at least for a while), so I suppose it is a moot point - but that night, looking at the place where the crib should be - but wasn't - brought me closest to true hopelessness that I have ever been in my life. It was a little sample of He!!.<P>I don't hate my W, and I think it would destroy her to lose custody of the baby. It was the thing she feared the most. Although I was tempted to fight for custody - I knew those two things<BR>1) she was best for the baby right now.<BR>2) It would destroy her to lose custody.<P>So, I promised her I wouldn't try to take the baby away from her.<P>But... If things were different, I would certainly fight. <P>If she does divorce me, and I could only see my daughter every second weekend, I don't know how I would live.<P>-AD

Hey girl:<P>Gotta go to school, but I did have a strange thought to share. MAYBE, he is for real! A down-to-earth, good, honest, decent fellow.... Imagine that! Talk to ya.<P>Ashley

Chris,<P>My ex didn't fight for custody or ask for more than standard visitation for one reason: He didn't want the responsibility! Sad, huh? But then again, he didn't have much to do with the kids when he lived here. Now he sees them a few times a year and he lives 10 minutes away! Go figure! <P>Mitzi

Because they are not POSSESSIONS or PRIZES!!<P>In my opinion, at certain ages, just like child support inflation changes, the time should increase to 50/50 unless one party doesn't want to, or the living conditions are impossible, such as impossible commute for school, etc.<P>Suppose the mom is the WACKO!!!!!>????????????<P>now my X is the wacko, but the lawyer said, with her image presentation, there will be very little chance of winning,<BR>plus it will be very expensive, plus it can be long and drawn out, plus it can be very damaging. (She presents very well to the outside, but inside the house, where noone else can see, lets just say poor parenting to no parenting skills.)<P>So unless there is parental agreeements, judges just give the standard minimum, easier and quicker. In that respect, moms have a built in unfair advantage that should diminish over time, understandable with infant, etc. but not with teenager.<P>In my case, we mediate to 60/40 hers/mine, which was fine, and then at the end, she couldn't live up to her agreement, threatened to take it to court where judge would give the minimum. Let me tell you, the poor parenting skills, similar to how her parents got her into this mess, is perpetuating.<P>Now she was a child behavior/kindergarten major in college, so she did fine up until now, and she is parenting them to be selfish, dependent upon her, very disrespectful to me, has brought them into her social life, etc. something she said to me she would not do, and then when I complained, told me don't tell me how to live my life!"<P>I understand completely, and to ASSUME your built in legal rights are entitlement and covers all situations, needs some personal examination and exploration.<P>

My lawyer told me of a case where the mother was custodial, was a heroin addict, fell asleep in the park on drugs, and the father was awarded prime custody. The father then became disabled (broken leg) and the children were ordered directly back to the flea-bitten mother.<P>Yeah, it's a woman's world when it comes to custody. Mind boggling!