Sorry to hear about your wife. She seems spiraling in to some delusional life crisis. By the time a lady is 38, she should know that bar scum always say what ever you want to hear until they get you in bed. And even I know that when guessing a ladies age it's always best to be generous (guess younger). The more insecure the woman is, the more generous. Anyway, if that is the state she has gotten to, you are going to have to let her go. In my opinion, once a woman (or a man) gets to that state nothing you say or do can pull her back. Let her go. Anything you say or do will only make her even more whatever it is that she is. Be supportive, get some counseling, and start making some plans to get yourself and your kids through this.<P>You don't have to give up hope though. Once she's on her own for a while, you never know where she'll be in a year or so. Lots of men and women leave there spouses and want to come back after a while because they learn a little about themselves and the world. Most don't, and of those who do, most find their ex unreceptive by the time they get back. But some people even reconcile. So after she leaves it's a bit of wait and see for you. Wait and see where she will be in one year, and wait and see where you will be in one year as well.<P>The important thing is for you to eventually come to a place in your own self where she can't hurt you anymore. You need to take back whatever emotional trust you had established. I like to think of it sort of like lending a teenager the car. If they drive home drunk, you wouldn't let them borrow the car again until they can demonstrate more appropriate behavior. Once you get to a point where you can detach your emotions from her behavior, take your emotions back if you will, you will feel a lot better. I recommend the book "Rebuilding After Your Relationship Ends". I can't remember the author, but it's in all the bookstores.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by nonplused (edited June 14, 1999).]

She told me mon. morning that I have one month to get my finances in order and she is leaving. I don`t know what I`m going to do . It seems like I`m in a deep nosedive tailspin.I can`t detatch my self emotionally. I tried to find a solution oriented counsler but can`t in my area. Even if I try with this web site it is going to be more than I can afford. I told you that we had a lot of major renovations done to our house last year and I`ll be stuck paying all of that. I don`t know if there is someone else or it`s the attention she recieves when she goes out with the 25 yearold girlfriend. I`ve none her since she was 16, married when she was 18. It`s almost like she is reliving her younger years she never got to do. Still ther is a missing piece to this puzzle and I don`t know what that is. I pray to God that there is no one else in her life. She has been so secretive about where she has been lately. All she wants to do is have fun with her friend and work. She has separated her self from me and the family. I am a wreck, nervous all the time , thinking about her, and how I`m going to survive.

Confuesed...........<P> I think it is time to just let her go dear. Seems she is only thinking of herself. Which that really surprises me she is letting her drift from her own children too. At least what ever I decide my kids go with me. Its time for you to think about YOU and the kids. Let her do what she wants seems to me shes doing that anyway. And the being secretive dear she must have someone else. I am sure your right on one part. She married young and did not get to be out on her own. That im time comes back to haunt some of us. I married at 23 and times I think that was to young too. Confused you know the saying if you love something let it go if it comes back it is yours if it doesn't it never was. Well that sounds to me like what you have to do right now. You will survive we all do. I know there are days I want to pack up and run as far as I can. But what will that do but just leave problems behind but they always come back. I am having hard time here too. I hate living like a roomate but my kids are my life right now. I would never leave them. I know people say you have to make you happy nobody else can do that for you. I am trying really trying but still I don't see that light anywhere close to what I need and want. Seems life the happy life is just passing me by and its not fair. Deep down I am so alone yet. I try and keep busy somedays are better then others still. I miss being wanted and needed as a woman. I mean the total picture. Right now I feel that nobody will ever want or see me that way again. Thats how bitter I have become on men. God just is not listening to my prayers right now and the reason for that I am not sure of. But none the less I still pray everynight. Hang in there think about what you need and want with your kids right now. Ya know if she lets you go who knows you may find another in time who will enjoy all you have to give. Thats my one true dream right now. Thats all I have are dreams. I know its hard and it hurts like hell. But we will survive somehow someway we do. Keep in touch.

Confused,<P>I see a few things. First, I don't think it's going to be terribly productive to try and figure out if she is reliving early years or if she married to young. My experience is that people do not make decisions based on what they might have missed 20 years ago. Her decisions are going to be based on whatever is in her mind right now. It is also not really all that productive to speculate if there is someone else or not. After all, the decision is made. I know how it feels to be wondering all the time and know that she is keeping a lot of secrets. It feels terrible. But in the end it will make almost no difference either way. I know this from experience.<P>The best thing is to be as helpful and caring as you can be, sort everything out fairly, and then wait. She may be walking straight into a big wake up call. She might be back and ready to sort things out in 6 months. Of course, if she is half as arrogant as my ex., she may never be willing to admit that things didn't work out too well for her. But the important thing is that it's her problem now and not yours. You are no longer able to help her fight her battles.<P>What also seems apparent is that what ever is in her mind is about 180 degrees from where you are at. Communicating with her about anything other than business is going to be difficult. Let her go. It is her life after all, and she can choose to live it whichever way she wants. I know it's hard watching her take the short path to a long road of misery, but you can't save her unless she wants to save herself.<P>About the 25 year old girlfriend, what strikes me about that is that people usually tend to form friendships with their intellectual and emotional peers. If she is 38, and hanging out with 25 year olds, well, we don't really need to think about that too much. She needs to do some growing up, and thankfully you won't have to pay (emotionally) for it anymore.<P>One month to sort out your finances is tight. Get to a lawyer right away. Remember, if she leaves the children with you SHE WILL HAVE TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT. Also, all family assets and debts (those assets and debts acquired during the marriage) will be split 50/50. So if you owe a lot of money on the house for renovations, guess what? She owes half. Of course, she also gets half the equity. But once you count up the cars, etc., that she wants to take, you might find that she owes you a considerable amount of money. Anyway, you can't really make any assumptions here until you get in to see a lawyer. So do that immediately.<BR>

you are right nonplused I shouldn`t be thinking if there is someone else or not. There is nothing I can do about it. But it is something that is eating my up inside to know for sure. I don`t want to believe there is. Why does someone you know so long do a complete turnaround in such a short period of time to turn into someone you don`t even know anymore. I don`t know how to act around her anymore. Should I just go about my business and not offer to do anything for her unless she asks? Should I ignore any little comments she makes that sound like I should tell her like it really is? I don`t want to start any arguments with her, too many things get said that you can`t take back. I can`t even talk to her since Monday. Every answer she give is like she is forcing herself to talk and has a tone of anger in it. I don`t know why she is so angry at me. She thinks in her mind she is going to not pay anything around here and save enough money for the first months rent and move out. She thinks that she is sticking me with all of the bills and I have to find my own way out. That is why she thinks she can afford to live on her own. I don`t want to start anything with her but she caused most of the debt and when it comes down to her leaving she is going to have to pay some of it too. Your right I do need to see a lawyer, at least to find out where I stand. When I put a pencil we own more than equity we have in the house so I don`t know where she thinks I`m supposed to figure out how to make it with the kids and my pay alone. As for the 25 year old friend. It is someone she worked with the past few years. I know the girl pretty well myself. I also thought about trying to talk to this girl in cofidence, but I don`t know if I trust her to keep qiuet and I also don`t know how much she knows. I don`t want to tell her personal things that my wife hasn`t already told her. My wife says she hasn`t told her anything. They sometines work late together and that is when they go out for drinks. They also do things together on days off once in a while where we used to do things together if we were both off. I need to get myself together and come up with a game plan.

Confused.......<P> If I were you I would not talk to the girlfriend. My hubby called mine one time telling her he was worried about me and glad she was a good friend to me. Well she told me everything he told her. And I bet that girlfriend of your wifes would do the samething. As for your wife not telling her about her life. Well I am sure she tells her everything. Women are like that. We need to tell our best of friends. Mine know everything. But they help me by listening and giving me the best advice as possible. I have two best friends one lives here and one in another state. You do need to talk to a lawyer. If it comes down to the divorce it is split 50 50. I even know that here. I even found out about how much child support I could get for 2 kids with his income. So she will have a rude awakening there for sure. If she leaves yes she will have to pay child support if you get soul custody. So hang in there I still am any happier here no I am not. One friend told me keep the faith . I asked how do you do that when all you keep seeing is one door closeing after the other. Its so hard I cry at least once a day. Sometimes more depends on what kind of day am having. hang in there though soemday hope I am not to old that light will shine bright again. Huggs to you all.

Confused,<P>Please visit this site if you can find the time: www.divorceinfo.com<P>It is one of the best web sources I have seen for someone facing your/my situation. I found it enormously helpful. You will be able to find a lot of counseling, advice, and the plain facts about divorce. Some things you will find that you should keep in mind (excepting that she gets a super aggressive lawyer and you don't protect yourself with a good lawyer too):<P>1. Assets acquired during the marriage are shared 50/50.<BR>2. Debts acquired during the marriage are shared 50/50.<BR>3. The debts and assets are evaluated on or as near as possible to the separation date. Any debts she is currently running up on her credit card, whatever, will be her responsibility. The separation date is usually the day she told you it was over, regardless of living arrangements.<BR>4. Child support goes to the parent with "primary care", even in a joint custody situation. You do not need full custody to get child support. If the children reside primarily (51% of the time or more) with you, she pays you child support. If she doesn't, she goes to jail.<BR>5. Most States and Canada set child support using a standard table based on the payer's total income. That is, if you have primary care, she pays you. They will look at her income on the column, the number of children on the row, and bang, there it is. No other factors are considered and there are usually no provisions for adjustments up or down.<BR>6. Since she is working and has been for some time, it is not too likely she will get any support from you at all. (spousal support)<P>She may be telling you that she is walking out clear and free and you get the kids, the debts, the pain and not one single thing from her, but she obviously hasn't researched this very well. Your lawyer will wake her up to the realities of life. So, if I can be preachy for a moment, stop worrying about it, get in to see a lawyer, figure out where you stand, and begin to start planning a new life based on the new realities of your situation. I had to go through all that myself not all that long ago. It is very hard to sit there and work with a lawyer while your emotions are all screwed up inside. But it must be done. You will have to spend a torturous few months using your head and not your heart. Your heart is woefully incapable of looking after you or your children right now. But don't worry, it does get better. And as you begin to make plans and sort things out, you will actually start to feel better too.<P>You still have your kids, you job, hopefully family and friends, and yourself. Soon you will also have your self respect back too. And it happens faster than I thought it would at the time.<BR>

I do need to think of my self and my kids. It is so hard to focus right now. She keeps coming into my thoughts.I thought a lot about all of this today. I guess I`ll try to back way off and try to concentrate on myself and my kids, and what plan of action I need to take. I do appreciate all of your thoughts. I guess I was really looking forward tou your posts so I could get some other thoughts. You`re right, talking to the girlfriend would only make things worse, one more thing to get upset about, which would do nothing buts cause more heartache.

Confused.......<P> I know about heartache. Mine is still there and I wonder if it will ever lessen. People say time heals all wounds. I wonder if they meant years there too. Sure seems like that for me anyways. People say hang in there with faith. Well my faith is diteroting pretty fast. I know I should not think that way but right now I feel as if God is not even listening to me. So I just wonder why I should keep praying. Some say hes closing doors on me for reasons.Well then I feel if thats the case then hes slamming everyone I am trying to look more positive to. Life just is not fair. Guess what gets to me more is there are spouses out there who are so controlling.etc and they are the ones that seem to get what they want. I feel that my life is never going to be happy where I want it to be no matter how hard I try. Friends say I have to beautiful children. Yes I do but those kids grow up and move out. Where does that leave me then? More alone? Thats how far I think ahead. Guess maybe I shouldn't. Yeh I know one day at a time. UGH Hang in there Confused.

I guess it finally sunk in. I feel like she is going to leave me anyday and there is nothing I can do or say to stop her. She won`t even talk about it. I am going to see a lawyer this week, just to see what my options are when she walks out on us. I don`t want to initiate anything unless I have to. I`m also going to try to set up a counceling session with Steve Harley. I almost don`t know how to act around her. I guess I`ll just do my own thing and see what happens with her. I wish she would realize how she is going to upset all of our lives and way of living including hers. She spent every night home this week and even took a day off and spent it with our daughter. I guess when we were arguing on Monday and I told her to look in the mirror, that she was a 39 year old mother, not a 25 year old that goes out all the time with her friends. Maybe that got her thinking a little.

Confused.........<P> Please just don't do to her what my spouse does to me alot. Always gives me sarcastic remarks. I finally had it last weekend with the comments I e-mailed him. That way we did not get into a fight about what I said and when I write I say things better. So this week I did not get any that I can remember but lets see how long it lasts. I have been living seperate life for along time here. Yes i hate it but one day and soon I hope an answer the right one will come to me. Or it will just feel the timing is right. I still hurt everyday. This week was really hard for me too. More because of some female problems and then the depression on top of it I was fit to be tied. Well like I say all we can do is hope all i have left anyways. Someday maybe I will feel in love with someone again.

wonder- don`t get me wrong. I don`t make a habit of making comments like that. As a matter of fact I have been biting my tounge for the past 5 months while she has been the one making the comments. I had to say something because she spent 3 or 4 nights out with her friend last week alone. It seemed like it was getting to be more and more each week. I was tired of trying to make excuses for her with our kids who were constantly asking me where she was, why is she never home and when will she get home. It breaks my heart for them to go through this when 6 months ago things were not like this. They don`t understand what is going on, just like me.

Confused........<P> May I ask how old your kids are? I think she should be the one to explain her behavior to them not you. Best thing for you is to concentrate on the kids right now let her do what she wants like ya said. I know its really hard cause i don't have much to look forward to any days here either. Its even hard for me somedays to pretend being happy around the kids. I want so much to have me back to me again but I am not sure who she is anymore. I have never in my lifeitme thought I would feel so helpless about myself. There are days here again lately that I want to just forget it all and just run away. I cut back on my meds to one a day and I don't think that helps. But I want off them someday. I hate being on medication. I hate being and feeling depressed. I know its something that cannot be helped. Its a diesase but none the less I hate it. Hang in there dear I sure try and yes its damn hard. Somedays better then others too. More not then are for me.

they are 17,15 and 10. She is never home for them to ask her, and when they do she says, i had to work, or why do you care where I have been. When this first started she would ocasionally go somewhere with me, now she won`t go anywhere with me and tells me that. It`s very hard when i know I have done nothing to hurt her.

Confused.......<P> Well at least you have older kids whom might understand what you tell them. Not that it will hurt any less. Ya know you don't have to do anything for your spouse to fall out of love with you. So don't keep thinking its what you did wrong or what you did not do wrong. It happens people drift apart. Lord knows I have but in my case he did do things. Its done and past though nothing I can do to change that. But I do want you to know something here. Do you know how hard it is to have your spouse tell you how great you look,sexy etc and not feel anything when they tell you that. I just wish when I hear that it was from somoene who I was in love with. It hurts when I hear him tell me those things. I would rather not hear them from him at all.He told me the other night he was sorry I hurt so much. I said so am I. He said that he wished we could communicate more but he knows I have a hard time now with that. I said well at one time I tryed to communicate all the time but you were not there to listen. Now I feel like I live with a complete stranger. Well actually I do. And I think he will always be a stranger to me as a husband. Been like that for 2 years like I said before. So maybe you know where I am coming from right now. Maybe that will help you more hearing my side as a women I don't know. Hang in there though.

I have a hard time with the statement that people drift apart. Every couple that has been married for a lenght of time , at times feel like they drift apart. that is when you must change things together, put the fun and romance back in your marriage. i can see in cases,, like yours, when one spouse has hurt the other, where you won`t ever forget it, that you feel that you will never fall back in love with him again. But from the books and articles I have read if noone has been hurt, and the couple feels they have drifted apart, that is the time to do something different to stimulate your marriage. You have both of your lives and the lives of your kids, plus your financial futere all at stake. That is not the time to say I`m leaving. Unless you`ve tried every means to put the fire back in your marriage and nothing works. In my case she is not even willing to try. I`m not saying you are wrong, I`m just expressing my opinion. I guess I really needed to get that off my chest since i told myself I`m not going to talk to her about us for a while.<p>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited June 20, 1999).]

Confused.......<P> I agree with you on if one spouse has not hurt the other in the past you need to find the spark again if it has died. Lord knows I would give anything right now to feel a spark of being in love again. We all drift different ways at times. But like you said the spark can be put back if you both want if one has not been hurt. I have been reading a romance novel right now I would give anything to find what these women are finding in my book. I am so lonely right now for some passion and romance it hurts so much. Just to walk and have my hand held to feel that girlish feeling again. But I don't see that happening for me. Some say if you giving up on praying don't give up on hope. I have come to the point where thats hard to see anymore too. I cry when I read this book and see things on TV about people having that loving feeling for each other. Knowing nothing is coming my way like that. I know what you mean about getting things off your chest. I have to venge too. Seems each day is getting rougher instead of easier. I'm sorry she won't talk to you about why or how she came to these feelings of hers. But to me its her loss you seem like a very loving man. Someday she will probably realize that and maybe by then it will be to late. You will have fallen in love with someone that can return what you have to offer. Funny thing to me seems the people who have the most to give and love in thee hearts are the ones who get burned all the time. And no its not fair I just don't undetstand that at all. Keep in touch.

wonder, you seem very depressed lately. I`m going to ask you to try something. I`m not one to be giving advice because, the way you are feeling is the same way I`ve been feeling Try not to think about the future, try only to think about today, not the past or the future, only today. How you can make yourself and your kids happy. things you have to do today only. I`ve been trying this and sometimes this works and you feel a little better enen if it`s only for a few hours. Maybe if I keep trying this it will make me feel better for a whole day and then who knows. I know you can`t cotrol how your mind thinks, I`ve been through this. But there is no sence worring about the same things over and over. I think that`s what gets us into a depression state.I can`t control how my wife thinks, and I can`t make her want to try. And thinking what life will be like without her drives me crazy and I don`t want to think about it. I need to do for me and my kids now. Don`t get me wrong I`m not tignoring my wife, I`m plesent to her and talk to her about family matters, but I don`t want any more confrontations right now. Why don`t you try this and see if it makes you feel a little better, even if it`s only a little while. Take care of yourself.

Confused.........<P> I have tryed to think about today only. I still have a hard time dealing with just today. I woke up already this morning down. Did not sleep well last night and even took my sleeping pill. You are right I am very down anymore. I keep thinking what purpose do i have to be around here anymore. To be depressed day in and day out what good is being around to feel like that. I decided to quit my one job end of July now I need to find another part time one. I applied for one in May I really wanted but a door shut in my face again and I did not get it. Thats what I mean about one door slamming right after another for me. No wonder its hard for me to look at one day at a time. Somedays I wonder why bother get out of bed at all. So I can see what goes wrong for me today. Well take care hope your at least feeling better.

wonder, you really need to get out of your depressed state, for your own good and for your kids. They need you now. Even when I tried to act normal around them they could tell. My youngest sometimes made comments to me about being so sad, so if she noticed the older two did.