Hello everyone.<p>No sleep last night. Well maybe 30 minutes or so. I miss him and want him to come home so bad. On the other hand I don't think I can trust him with my heart ever again. He has truly caused so much pain, that I am certain he could never understand. Up until Dec. 30th my heart was healing well. Now it's shattered all over again. I still love him, need him and want him. But I can't do this again. I can't take this much more.<p>He called me to see how I was around 10PM. I think that is a good sign but who knows. <p>Also ate a PB&J sandwich at about 3 AM. Brain food. If he doesn't call me or e-mail me soon today, I am going to explode. He says his time away has been prodcutive, he is journaling his thoughts and feelings. I just want to call him and tell him I love him, but I know it is not a good idea.
Well Day two is underway!<p>Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and support.<p>[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: eyes_wide_shut ]</p>

Well I couldn't take it and called him. He obviously is dragging me alone and doesn't give a $%#@^! about our marraige. I can't do this any more. I am done. He can live in his missery forever. I can't. <p>I am tired of his I don't know's. Everything points to us being a completely compatable, great couple with a life people dream of and he can't get past his own selfishness, pride and ego. I have been his faithful, caring, understanding wife, his friend and lover. We have shared more together in 11 years than most people share in a life time! Screw it. <p>Gotta go now.

ews, are you attracted to the owh?<p>and, btw, surely you must recognize the manipulative man you are married to? This is classic controller behaviour.<p>[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

The OWH is a very nice man. Smart, funny, a great father and a geat friend. But There could never be anything between us. he is a constant reminder of my failure as a wife, which lead to our spouces EA & PA. I am thinking a will just work and live and be lone forever. god I can't even think of ever being with a man besides my H. <p>Yes I beleive my H likes to have control. It never really bothered me, becasue I was secure enough with myself. At this point, I am so upset with my H for what he is doing. I am out of my mind.<p>I have to go for a while. I am in my office crying. Not good for the AVP of a large company!<p>[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: eyes_wide_shut ]</p>

ews, you did not really answer the question [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ...<p>Not will you pursue the owh, but are you attracted to the owh? In other words, if you were both single/free would he be marriage material?<p>Sorry about the tears today, this is so hard. Controllers are often sociopaths as well, and extremely manipulative people....I don't know if yours is or not, but the pattern is there. He has played you like a fiddle, to get what he wanted, that is not a good thing, and hurts like heck when one must face it. Go get a hot fudge sundae at lunchtime, chocalate is good for the soul.

Sad_N_Lonely:<p>To answer your question on the OWH. He has all the qualitites to make a great husband to someone who will return his unconditional love. I am truly glad to have him as a friend. I just wish his W would open her eyes and return to her marraige.

SNL....why on EARTH would you ask a question like that???????????????

nina...cause it was obvious from reading between ews words, and it is important, I think he probably feels the same, and it is (whether one wants it to be or not), part of the dynamic in the circumstances of these 4 people. One can make rational choices not to act on such things, but that does not mean one is unaffected in very real ways by such feelings... I have therories re this topic, but this is not the time or place to discuss them. My intent was to make note of something ews may be denying to herself, it is up to her what to make of this.

e_w_s, I think you're lucky to have a great friend in the OW's H. Why complicate things beyond that? You need friends now not lovers!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Well I couldn't take it and called him. He obviously is dragging me along and doesn't give a $%#@^! about our marriage. I can't do this any more. I am done. He can live in his misery forever. I can't. <hr></blockquote><p>Don't beat yourself up! I know exactly how you feel. All day I've been calling my counselor, friends, checking here, so as not to call. He called me twice, first crying, said he couldn't talk, and hung up, second time crying and yelling at me to leave his parents alone and then hanging up - I don't know what that means so I called back - he wouldn't answer - and told him that he could call and explain if he wanted to - he hasn't.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am tired of his I don't know's. Everything points to us being a completely compatable, great couple with a life people dream of and he can't get past his own selfishness, pride and ego. I have been his faithful, caring, understanding wife, his friend and lover. We have shared more together in 11 years than most people share in a life time! Screw it. <hr></blockquote><p>Yes! We have a business together, a beautiful home we had built for us in the Sierra foothills, a 20 year relationship...<p>OOPS, he just called collect from a bar asking me to come and get him... I probably shouldn't do it but I said I would....<p>check in later. Hang in there! You're a good person. Don't judge yourself by your H's behavior towards you.

Hi E-W-S,<p>I know I shouldn't be saying this, but right now your H needs a kick in the reality butt. If I were you, I'd stop all communication with him and NOT let him in the house ever again. Tough love.<p>I only say this because looking back over the past two years with my STBXH, if there was one thing I would do differently if I could, it's that I would have kicked him out on his ear the first time I found out about his affair. Period.<p>Then he would have to live with his indecision, his choice. It took my H months of lying and cheating to finally "choose" the OW. I wish I would have forced the issue.<p>Yes, I know how you feel. That love you have for him is something I felt too. I'm so sorry you have to go thru this. But part of me wants to tell you to tell him "Go to h*ll....this is the LAST day you are going to jerk my heart around."<p>I don't know why I'm telling you to do this, but some days I just can't stand the sh*t these WS put us thru. And hearing you say that you don't think you'll ever be able to trust him again, I say....just end it (the relationship). You take the power. You make the decision to stop the pain by stopping the relationship. Let him see what life without you at his beck and call is like.<p>I don't even know if I really feel this way; I just am so sick and tired of all the pain we are all in!! My STBXH is a good person overall; I loved him deeply; and at some level I still love him. But my God!! It is just sinful the way their fog, indecision, etc. affects the other person. It's just plain wrong to do that to another person, friend or enemy.<p>Sorry for my rant. I really feel for you.
Aloha,
Ms.O

Hi guys.<p>Went to the gym again tonight. Trying to burry my stress in sweat. <p>SNL I think they are all right. My head and heart are not in the place to even consider such a thing. I have found one thing to be true in this world. You must always take a step back and think....before you make a decision to act on something you can not take back. I am not saying I have not thought about it and maybe the OWH has too. But in situations like this we are surely to lose more than our friendship in the end. Maybe someday, years from now, if I end up getting the big D, we will meet on a warm beach and share a cocktail on the sun!<p>
As for my H. I have decided to shut him out of my life completely for now. He is so concerned with what everyone, even the OWH, thinks of him now that he has lost sight of what he is doing to me. He does have a good heart and good morals and he is now realizing what he did. He can't stand the fact that people think less of him. I told him he is human, thats what poeple think. He is the only one dwelling on what he did. I am sure he didn't even read it.<p>Phone is ringing! I am not answering it. Give me strength! He left me a message asked me to call him. I can't. I just don't feel he has the right at this moment to ask me how I am and if I am okay. He just has no right.<p>Well I am going back to my book. Have a good night.<p>Love & Light.<p>[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: eyes_wide_shut ]<p>[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: eyes_wide_shut ]</p>

Well.........<p>He came home at 3AM this morning. Scared me half to death! He came in appologized for waking me
(I was hardly sleeping), said he could not sleep, so he came home, went straight to our spare bedroom and went to bed. I did not even see him. He was still sleeping when I left for work.<p>Obviously he didn't come home for me. He has many options to choose from these days, including a condo in the city, which is fully furnished and currently not occupied. I have no clue why he csame all the way to our house, just to sleep.<p>I am missing him so much, but I am so angry with him for this. For his self pitty and selfishness. For his inability to overcome his mistakes, to become a better person & husband. Ironically I was very glad to have him home, even if he was not holding me. God part of me wants him to just hold me tight and tell me he is so sorry and part of me wants to tell him to go F^%$#@ off!<p>Day 3...tomorrow is valentines day. I think I will go into the city myself, crawl into bed and sleep for 24 hours! Nice thought, but not an option.

Dear E-W-S,<p>I'm so sorry for your pain. I do know how you feel and it breaks my heart. <p>I have no more advice...just wanted you to know that my heart goes out to you and I'm saying a prayer for you right now.<p>Aloha,
Ms.O

Hi Michele...<p>I'm so sorry about this... I'd love to meet you tomorrow night so we can spend Valentine's Day in misery together?! Heck maybe we could go have some fun! My H is returning from an int'l trip tomorrow, he may be tired, but heck... he will have missed the kids, no?<p>Lemme know if you want to meet.<p>Oh, also, I'm going to a conference Saturday morning downtown at the Crossroads Center... from 8 am until Noon - yes, it's early. If you're interested, let me know, I can meet you there! It's called "From the Sacred to the Sacramental"... may not be just what you need but then again, it could be a good diversion! Here's the link http://crossroads-center.org/programs/crds_civicforum.html#Gil <p>Email me: OvrCsmb@aol.com<p>Or do you still have my telephone number?<p>Take care... you really are going thru some extreme stress right now! Glad you're still working out!<p>Ciao!
Nicole

well Day 4 from hell. <p>Last night we both worked out, he gave me my MP3 player back with new music he downloaded. He was nice at the gym. then when we went home I started to cry and he turned very mean, moody, said hurtful things, made me cry even more, then I calmed down and we talked a bit. He rubbed my back and snuggled with me so I could sleep. I cried a lot and I slept off and on, but today my eyes are so swollen and I look aweful! This morning I watched him get in the car we just bought him 3 weeks ago and drive off. (Metallic Red Corvette)I was a fool, I know, thought he loved me and we were past the bad times and the car was no big deal. Now I just feel like he used me and talked me into signing on it.<p>He is really in a bad place, I know this. Feeling guilty for what he did, trying to understand why he did what he did. how he could have feelings and thoughts for another person, even if she was not what he thought. Especially after he found out she was not what he thought. I think that makes it worse. He said he can't return to our marriage until he is able to give me 100% of him. Since he can't find himself right now, he can't give it to me.<p>Well.......Happy valentines day everyone. I am not happy and to tell you the truth I think I have given up on him. I think he is too lost in his own guilt and greif to realize he is losing me, us, our life. Until he opens his eyes and stops feeling sorry for himself and his heart to loving me, he is lost.<p>[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: eyes_wide_shut ]<p>[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: eyes_wide_shut ]</p>

Tell me what you think. <p>All of a sudden I am starting to have thoughts of really leaving him. I mean the kind where I think he is never going to get past this and I will never be good enough for him. It has been all about him for a year now. Yet he can't seem to commit to me again. everytime things get very good between us, he flinds a reason to
sabbotage(spelled wrong) his thoughts and feelings.<p>The reason I say this is because today I have had two oppertunities to well possible/proabably violate my own vows and morrals. Of corse I would never, but the fact that I am so sad and clouded that I thought about it, is bad. My H has really left me feeling like he is not coming back, and I have no hope for him to ever love me again. He has really broken me down this time with all this pain and cruelty. well and mostly leaving me. I feel like he quit............, left me.........., gave up on us.........<p>The first is a friend/customer who lives in CA. He is very handsom (could be Micheal Douglas's twin, but younger,) VERY successful, and has been kind of persuing me since last year when this roller coaster started. He has been a great source and friend. Today we talked, he knew I was hurting, it being valentines day and my H pretty much giving up on us, and asked me to come to LA. He said he would fly me out and pay for my hotel and all expenses. There is a huge black tie event in Beverly Hills next weekend and he asked me to attend with him. Of corse I don't think I would really go, but for some oddd reason, I told him I would think about it. we e-mail and IM mostly and see each other at industry events. That is where we met a few years ago in California. we just clicked and became friends. The idea of a white knight so to speak.... <p>Then there is #2. The OWH. His W is going away for the weekend. No doubt with her new boyfriend. So the OWH knowing now, I am alone, mentioned a bottle of wine......Of corse I said I didn't think it was a good idea. Is it becasue I am afraid of what may happen? Okay SNL you can say "I told you so." <p>Don't get me wrong, I still love my H. But if he is going to abandon me and our marriage, why am I being so faithful? I guess because thats me. I couldn't do it. Unless I have had too much Wine (so I won't!)Funny I have been answering my own questions lately. <p>Any input guys????<p>[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: eyes_wide_shut ]<p>[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: eyes_wide_shut ]</p>

Hi Michelle...<p>I know you're hurting...
I know you feel abandoned...
I know being in someone's arms would feel nice...<p>But Michelle, give your heart a chance to heal before you do something like this. You are thinking of calling it quits but in fact, you're still married. It hurts like h#ll right now and I can't imagine being in his back and forth behavior. That would just end it for me.<p>You said you have a condo downtown... why don't you just go and hide out for a while. Try NOT to contact that guy in LA for a while... just hang low. It's not that you can't pick that up another time when your heart has had a chance to heal. But I think you may be reacting to this intense emotional onslaught and you may have huge regrets...<p>By the way, the guy in LA... do you know his marital status? Yes, a party in Bev Hills would be a great diversion... but with him paying... expectations would be attached...<p>Take care... keep posting or call me. Right now, you're in the hottest HOT of the fire... my recommendation is to hunker down and hide for a while...<p>Do you go to church anywhere?<p>Ciao,
Nicole

Whoa!! Okay, now I have some advice....<p>DO NOT compound the situation by bringing your own possible infidelity into it!! O brother!! (SNL you should be slapped for even suggestioning that...) Stay true to yourself, E-W-S!!! Don't go an mess up an already messed up situation!!! PLEASE!! You know that's not who you are....<p>I think you need to separate from your H and do a Plan B. Ask him to leave, since he has a condo to go to. You are allowing him to run rampet over your emotions and it's killing you. He is sitting on a fence and it's not only messing him up more than he alreay is (is that possible?), it's TOTALLY messing you up.<p>Go back to the main MB site and read about Plan B and then do it. It's the only way you're going to get strong. It's not about him coming back to the marriage at this point. It's about you getting strong.<p>And who knows....it may be just the thing he needs to get off the fence one way or the other. <p>I know how you feel today, Valentine's Day, feeling very lonely. I am in the midst of a very, very sad and lonely attack. It sucks! I have been having wondering thoughts too...the guy at the gas station....they store clerk....anyone!!! But I know, even tho I've been separated two year, that I could never, never be with anyone else until I'm divorced. But the longings are there. Oh well.....let's both hang in there, okay?<p>Please seriously consider my advice re: Plan B and asking him to move out.<p>Aloha,
Ms.O

okay big reality check. Someone slap me!!!!!<p>I know I would never act on these thoughts. I am mad that I have had them! Guess I was thinking I would like to hurt him for once, but you are right, I can't do it. My own morrals would not let me. Plus somewhere in my heart I am still waiting for my H to wake up and realize I am the best thing in his life and that will ever be in his life.<p>You guys are right, I would never do to someone else, what has been done to me. It is terrible that I even thought it.

From this months MB newletter<p>2. Just A Thought...
by Steven W. Harley, M.S.
============================================<p>You are married until you are divorced.<p>Separation is a state of marriage.<p>Just a thought...