Lexxxy,<p>My answer to you would not really change whether my assumptions were correct or not. However, my guess is that if they were correct,then it would take longer for him to be willing to accept your apology in the spirit I think you mean it. <p>If things are pretty amicable, then perhaps shortly after the end, an apology or something along those lines might help him.<p>I do think most would like to hear something positive from the spouse leaving after all of those years together.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

One might notice that you did not address the questions about the "phone contact" with the OM.

One might also notice that we were posting at the same time, and I only now saw Kev's questions.<p>So Kev, to answer your question.<p>There has been some phone contact (both ways)
some of it having to do with items of mine that I want returned, some having to do with money, and occasionally a chat about whats going on. I was trying to maintain a "friendly" atmoshere until I got my belongings back.<p>There is absolutely no future with OM -- for many wise reasons! Bottom line, he's a loser. Nothing will start back up with him after our divorce. I do not want any sort of a future with him. I did not see him on my business trip. And I won't see him ever again.<p>End of a very painful chapter in my life. And I am actually looking forward to a new one.

Lexx-<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>End of a very painful chapter in my life. And I am actually looking forward to a new one. <hr></blockquote><p>I certainly hope you're not suggesting that you want a NEW, PAINFUL chapter... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thank you for your reply. I'm glad that that's not a consideration in your chosen path. <p>Take care, my prayers remain with you.
Kev

Lexxy, <p>I'm sorry that you are hurting through this right now too..<p>I realize your the WS here, as was I..so I do understand where your coming from in terms of wanting to 'help' them heal past the pain..<p>I do have a couple of questions though..<p>You said that he wasn't there as an active participant in your marriage (I can relate to that) <p>
Has he acknowledged his part in the failure of the marriage- as in not being the husband and father you and your children deserved?<p>has he tried to be since he found out about the A, or has he remained emotionally and physically away?<p>
Contrary to what others say..some women do leave marriage's even if there ISN'T someone else's arms
to fall into..and so do some men..<p>I realize that right now you don't trust his words as far as he can speak them out of his mouth..so if his actions aren't co-insiding w/ his words..
I can see why you don't trust him to change..<p>Do you think if you did 'see' long term changes you would consider staying? (I'm sure you've looked for these already-but would you be willing?)<p>I'm sure by what I have read here that you have been struggling w/ this for many years..trying to get him to wake up to the fact it was "this bad"
and you were ignored..(btdt too) <p>Something you need to look at also, you are NOT
responsible your husbands hurts..they are HIS feelings..Not yours, and if you haven't read the book Boundaries, I'd recommend you do..it says something like this--(parphrased)--<p>your honesty may cause hurt or emotional pain, but..it will not physically hurt the other person..they are adults..and need to be treated w/ respect to handle their own feelings..if you do not grant them the chance to do that you are limiting their chance to grow the way God needs them to grow..and to learn life's lessons the way they need too..<p>I realize that you are not wanting to cause him anymore internal pain..but, you are not responsible for how he feels..and I know your not apologizing because of your own guilt..nor trying to ease your own conscience..just trying to help him..<p>So if you want to apologize, then apologize, <p>Say something like..H, I am sorry that I hurt you
the way that I did..it was not my intent, I was very lonely, and the way I handled the problems we had in our marriage were wrong. I did try to explain this to you years ago, before it got this bad, but my words were ignored for whatever reason. No, That does not excuse my affair, but I did everything 'I' knew to get you to see we had problems..and right now, I do not trust you to be there for me, based on our past. Maybe years ago had things been different and we sought counseling when I wasn't so emotionally hurt, things could have been different..but right now, I can't trust that things in our marriage would change and be any different than they have been for the past 10 or so years. (if he has made promises to change before say so) Based on promises you've made in the past to me that things would change..they haven't..and I can't see staying in a marriage that is a marriage in name only. I'm sorry that things have gotten to this point, but I feel I deserve to be in a relationship with someone who wants to be here for me, who wants to be a part of the family..and not in one where the other person doesn't even acknowledge my feelings of hurt..<p>
you can reword it..but..it takes responsibility for your A, and also places his responsibility for not being there on him..it doesn't excuse your actions..nor his..and it explains that you tried to tell him before what was going on..and he didn't listen..will this hurt him?? Yes, probably
because most ppl don't want to take responsibility for their actions and being forced to face them makes them face their own failures and it hurts to admit you failed at something..so in order to not feel the hurt..it turns to anger..<p>Anger is nothing but a stop sign--it prevents you from getting something you want..or prevents you from facing something you need to face..In this case...it would prevent him from getting his marriage back to the way it was..and it helps him not have to face his own failures..and the hurt he caused you..so don't be surprised if he gets angry at you..if you apologize to him..<p>but, again I want to stress, <p>YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HE FEELS!!! <p>He is..He's an adult..and needs to acknowledge his part in all of this as well..No he didn't force you to have an affair..you made that choice..but at the same time..You didn't force him to stay away and not be an active part of your marriage..
that was his choice..the affair is not what caused the end of your marriage..lack of communication did that years ago, before the affair..the affair was just a choice you made because of the deeper problems..<p>the affair was your way of dealing w/ the problems, his not being around was his..<p>I know that you said your not a religious person..
but just know..that if you do have any underlying
feelings of condemnation..(condemning yourself, or even others condemning you) The Bible says...<p>There is therefore now NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus..<p>meaning with a truely repentant heart..Christ will not condemn you because you had an affair..and He does not condemn you because your marriage didn't work out and your getting divorced..<p>God has Boundaries too..and He does at some point quit calling sinners to repentance..he realizes that some people just choose not to follow Him..
and stops trying to nudge their hearts..and stops
trying to have a relationship with them..in essence..He divorces them..ending any type of relationship with Him in the present or the future..it doesn't mean He doesn't still hurt over it..but He accepts it..they made their choice..and will reap the consequences of the choices..
just as your h made his choice to be away from the family..and you made your choice to have the affair..and the consequences in this case are not to try and repair the marriage..but to go your seperate ways..just as God does when people reject His love..<p>So take heart..and learn from God..that Not everyone will change..and not everyone wants to change..to have the type of relationship with us
that we want..and it's okay to end those relationships..but also know..that if they are truely repentant and want to change..and show true signs of change..You can always try again..<p>So if your husband really is trying..and making changes in his own actions..don't let your pride stand in the way of how it could be..and maybe give it another shot..but if he's not showing any signs of change..then do what you need to do to protect yourself..

Lexxxy, While I understand the yearn to apologize and help your husband to bring a peace to yourself I understand. But you said <p>Quote:
This one made me laugh.....go back and read my history -- I practically begged for his participation and attention in our family and marriage life. Yeah whatever.<p>*********** The problem with this comment is - over the years you rejected your husband and made him feel he didn't have a place in his heart with you. I'm sure he begin to withdraw within himself. You then became unhappy and started looking outside the marriage mostlikely 5 years ago, what you did in adultery you meditated upon long before the act.<p>What if your husband is currently single now? I'm sure you entertained making it work. My wife and I also got married when she was 19, me 20. When we went to counseling they said she was extremely selfish and self-centered, didn't care about nobodys feelings, lost moral values, constant lying, sexual lust conversations with strangers, but more than anything extreme LOW-Self esteem.<p>This very day she looks for MEN that will tell her she beautiful only to find herself in bed just like yourself.<p>Therefore this good life you talk about walking into now while you're still married, still in an emotional affair........<p>Question: Are you really happy? or living an illusion still...Looking for the next Man, each man you lay with is another mans spirit you join yourself with and you inherit things both good and bad from that man that you carry for a lifetime.<p>Quote:<p>There is absolutely no future with OM -- for many wise reasons! Bottom line, he's a loser. Nothing will start back up with him after our divorce. I do not want any sort of a future with him. I did not see him on my business trip. And I won't see him ever again.<p>End of a very painful chapter in my life. And I am actually looking forward to a new one. <p>
Why don't get your things and move on, if its really over, send someone there and get your things, take the police if its over..

EverlastingCompassion:
[QB]Lexxxy, While I understand the yearn to apologize and help your husband to bring a peace to yourself I understand. But you said <p>Quote:
This one made me laugh.....go back and read my history -- I practically begged for his participation and attention in our family and marriage life. Yeah whatever.<p>TR- Why should this make you laugh?? Could it be that MAYBE your wife has felt the same way about you and You ignored her pleas to be a part of the family and show her your attention???<p>*********** The problem with this comment is - over the years you rejected your husband and made him feel he didn't have a place in his heart with you. I'm sure he begin to withdraw within himself. You then became unhappy and started looking outside the marriage mostlikely 5 years ago, what you did in adultery you meditated upon long before the act.<p>TR- How is that rejecting her HUSBAND??? BY begging HIM to be there???<p>What if your husband is currently single now? I'm sure you entertained making it work. My wife and I also got married when she was 19, me 20. When we went to counseling they said she was extremely selfish and self-centered, didn't care about nobodys feelings, lost moral values, constant lying, sexual lust conversations with strangers, but more than anything extreme LOW-Self esteem.<p>TR- It sounds as if your wife was abused as a child..and what did they say about you??<p>This very day she looks for MEN that will tell her she beautiful only to find herself in bed just like yourself.<p>TR- Another sign of coming from an abusive background..<p>Therefore this good life you talk about walking into now while you're still married, still in an emotional affair......<p>TR- She said the relationship was over..<p>Question: Are you really happy? or living an illusion still...Looking for the next Man, each man you lay with is another mans spirit you join yourself with and you inherit things both good and bad from that man that you carry for a lifetime.<p>TR- It sounds like you are very judgemental even of your wife and her actions..instead of as your name says..Everlastingcompassion---<p>I think you are speaking a lot of your hurt to Lexxy here about what your wife is doing..but, she's not your wife..and she never stated she was looking to hop from one man's bed to another..nor did she say that she's having lustful conversations and such with strangers..<p>She asked how she can help her stbxh to heal through this..and doesn't deserve to be blasted
for not wanting to work things out in her marriage..there apparently has been many years of negelect to her by her husband..and she's tired of being second fiddle to everything and everyone else..

snl said,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>the marriage was not a safe, nurturing, healthy place<hr></blockquote><p>This sounds more like the description of a parent-child relationship than a marriage.<p>I believe a marriage can be more properly described with words like equal partnership, sharing, and loving. Pittman has said that most cases of male infidelity stem not from problems in the marriage but from problems in the man's relationship with his father - and I suspect in many cases with his mother - and perhaps female infidelity has similar roots.

To ThorneRose - to answer your question about my wife..<p>Quote:
TR- It sounds as if your wife was abused as a child..and what did they say about you??<p>This very day she looks for MEN that will tell her she beautiful only to find herself in bed just like yourself.<p>TR- Another sign of coming from an abusive background..<p>Therefore this good life you talk about walking into now while you're still married, still in an emotional affair......<p>From EC:
My wife was sexually abused and her mother and father divorced and married about 7 times each...<p>I was asked what kind of family background I came from? Well I had both parents in the home growing up and marriage issues were always dealt with through thick and thin. Therefore they saw that I had a mind set to work through the hard times and don't quit, but my wife they saw when hard times come "Run" away from whats a challenge and avoid responsibility.<p>
I want Lexxxy to heal and move on, she can help her husband also, but what good does it do to say you are sorry only to repeat same behavior?...I don't think Lexxxy has to go back to her marriage, she has a free will, but I remember even after my wife was still with many men, she told me she loved me but was not in love with me, but was telling everyone she was thinking about working things out, putting it back together, therefore she was back and forth because OM was pulling at her begging her to come deeper with him in the relationship, therefore how can a woman know she's not still deeply be in love with her husband if OM is still in the picture....?I think if my wife had OM out of the picture things may have worked or she could recover and heal faster.<p>I would say Lexxxy is partly responsible for the pain she cause but not responsible for her husbands maturity, if he needs to grow up thats his problem not hers....But I would say she did inflict pain and yes she is responsible of the pain of BETRAYL, thats what needs to be addressed the BETRAYL, thats where the pain exist with him, I'm sure its not necessarly she left but how she did it, divorce happens everyday.

Lexxy "Matthew: It wasn't my signature line about hating divorce -- that was MKN.
Yes, I'm on the MB site, and yes I have done all the reading and research. I do believe in the process and the ideas. But I don't have it in my heart. The whole "love but not in-love" thing.<p>And I've posted here a lot -- hopefully to help others. But I've gotten a lot of help as well. To understand myself."
***********************************************<p>Lexxy, I'm sorry if I came off bad to you...must have been a rough night or something, but I do apologize if I sounded that way...I just don't understand...the whole "love but not in-love" thing is what MB is all about...bringing that IN-LOVE back and keeping it there. <p>I am glad you are able to help others here...and I am also glad that you are getting help to understand yourself. I hope things will get better for you regardless of your marriage.<p>But, I still have to say my advice about talking to him to make him feel better would only worsen the situation...If my W was set on D and tried to make me feel better about it and tells me she's so sorry it has to end in D ...and still persued the D, that would make me feel like she wasn't sorry and didn't care if I felt better about it anyway...If she was really sorry then she wouldn't D me...I don't know your whole story so I won't judge here.<p>On another note...Introduce him to MB and see what happens...let him run with it on his own without intervention from you and see what happens...He just might suprise you. If it does nothing but help him feel better, that's a start.<p>Don't verbalize it to him, maybe just send him an email like "I thought you might be interested in this" and add the link to MB. Leave it alone after that...Just my thoughts.<p>Again, sorry if I offended...just confused about it thats all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't your husband the one that unexpectedly exploded and started the divorce proceedings?<p>If he is still extremely angry at you then I doubt anything you say to him will get thru to him. He's like a wounded animal that is licking his wounds and lashes out at any perceived threat.Just the sight of you will be enough to trigger that deep anger and hatred.<p>If he is not going to counseling then he should for not only his wellbeign but also of your childrens. If you can find a third party, like one of your in laws or a mutual friend, to act on your behalf, then he might have the right frame of mind to listen to your message. But even if you can do this, don't expect him to react favorably because it will take a long time, if ever, before before his pain goes away.<p>I beleive that if the message he gets from you is that despite the hurt you caused him by your affair that he must start to let go of the anger and hatred for not only his sake but your childrens as well, then the rational side will eventually start to see the truth in the message and start to take over and the process of healing can begin.<p>All in all Lexxxy it's going to take a looong time before he can let go of the hurt.<p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe<p>[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>