Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#723254 03/20/02 02:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
I stumbled on this site, read some of the lit. and am amazed at how much I see in my own marrieag. My wife an I me in H.S., but didn't date till after. We dated for about 3 1/2 years before getting married, and after another 3 had our 1st child. The 7 year itch, boredom etc, none of it came about. We were as happy at 7 years as we were after 6 months of dating. Looking back, I'd say things started around the 10-12 year mark. Some of it might have been that it took me that long to really see her as she is. <p>This is obviously my opinion, and as such only has that much value. Feel free to tell me I am wrong or right. We have all the typical issues that all married couples seem to have, argue over housework, childcare issues, money. Those to me are no biggies, and maybe those are things that cause people to split up early in a marriage, and why I stayed so much longer.<p>I've come to find that my wife is (and probably was always) a selfish and demanding person. We are in our late 30's, married way too young, 20, before some personality traits seem to manifest. Her parents, (her father in particular) are very tight, financially and emotionally. She is very much like her father. I tend to be more giving - hence the start of our problems. I think a taker will always spot a giver and quickly learn to find the weak spots. She is very good at manipulating me to her needs. Probably around the 10 year os so mark is where I started to see this, and started to respond. Obviously she also changed tactics. around it goes in a vicious circle. <p>I work in the computer industry, I get paid well, but am not a dot.com millionare by any stretch. I make enough that she doesn't have to work (though some might not agree). She chose not to work, though she has in the past. Mostly retail bs jobs. Since we've been married she's not made much over min wage, nor worked for more than a year, and has no real desire to. She wants to stay home and care for the kids. I fully supported this (or would fully support her decision to work). We have many disagreements around this. I feel if she wants to her job to be caring for the house (she always say being a house wife is a job) then she should treat it as such. She should make a start time, a quit time etc. Most of the time she gets up at 8:00am to 10:00 am. My son is old enough to get up for school on his own. My daughter is 4, she wakes up between 7-8am get a cup of juic from the fridge and watches tv till my w to wake up. This kind of bothers me, but so far seems to cause my daughter no problems. My w goes to the pool several days a week. Again I think if she wants to say being a house wife is work, then treat it as such. I can't go to the pool when I am supposed to be at work. When i walk in the door in the evening, I am on immediate kid duty till they go to bed. I love my kids so I don't mind, but the expectation annoys me. <p>My wife's trump card is that she was diagnosed a few years ago with MS. She has no physical problems, other than she says she gets tired. I've tried to be supportave, but do notice that this only seems to interfear with things she wants it to interfear with. I have yet to see her say she's too tired to go to the mall, the pool etc, but she is constantly too tired to take care of things around the house. If I push too hard with anything she pulls this out of her sleeve.<p>All of this I could probably live with, it just adds straws to the camel's back. There are a few issues that really make the small issues worse. I am heavily involved in martial arts, and have been for many years. I have 2 - 2 hour classes durring the week, and a 3 hour on sat morning. I'll also go to an ocassional weekend seminar, maybe 2-3 over the course of the year. She's sort of come to tollerate this, but I know she'd jump for joy if I quit tomorrow. I never expected her to activly participate, but some support would be nice. Just as I support her when she wants to do something. Instead of understanding what I get from it, she see's it as me taking from the family for others. She feels this should be something I do when there is nothing else to do, kind of like guys that play a game of golf a couple times a month. For years she tried anything she could to get me to stay home. Much manipulation and arguements were the result. Now she has a new tactic.<p>My w like many others I am finding has no interest in sex, unless she's in the mood, then she expects my full attention. Any time I attempt to initiate anything, she pulls away, except for 1. If I am going to class, she will gladly trade for sex. She's discovered her best chance at successfully keeping me from going is to offer sex. I have heard all the typical complaints - lack of afection attention etc. I've done everything within reason to try - weekend away, romantic dinner for us, or just sit on the deck and talk over a glass of wine. Bottom line, none of it makes much difference. The only result I see is that the more attention I give the more she expects.<p> I could probably name all the same complaints that every other guy does, and I'm sure she has her list. For the most part I could live with the petty stuff I guess the bottom line is that I believe marriage should be a thing where both partners support each other, treat each other as adults, and at the same time, are allowed the freedom to care for them self, and their own needs. I've talked to many friends and it amazes me how many wives will treat their husbands much worse than they do their friends. One would never tell a friend they could or could not do something, why do we give our spouses less credit?I have a real problem with demands, and she's a very demanding, mentally and emotionally high maintenance person. Any thoughts?

#723255 03/20/02 02:32 PM
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 818
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 818
Wow! I hope you don't get blasted too much because your post makes it sound like your more the selfish and demanding person. I'm going to ask you this question straight out and I hope you'll be honest. Are you seeing another woman or are you interested in seeing another woman? Don't worry, I'm not a hurt or bitter betrayed spouse so don't worry, I won't jump down your throat if this is the case. You just seem to come across as very "annoyed" with your wife for traits she's always had that didn't bother you in the past. I really think that no matter what she did you'd be frustrated with her. Very common actions for a spouse who is interested in someone besides their own partner. The thing is, being a stay at home mom is NOT like a job. You can't treat your children like co-workers. For the record, I am a full-time working mom and I wouldn't be able to handle the stress that I'd feel being a stay at home mom. You have some perks (i.e. sleeping in, not having to fix up for work, hanging at the pool or even shopping), but how is that different then the "perks" that you receive working outside the home?? Adult company, job satisfaction, continued education and the opportunity to boast about being the bread winner. I think some couples really have a problem with jealousy when they are in your situation. To you she seems to have it made, stress free, care free life while you carry the financial burden on your back. I would bet she's jealous of you from the "perks" I listed above. You both made this decision when you had children that she'd stay home with them. Even though you didn't out and out say it I think your angry she isn't working. Why? If you get a divorce you'll not only owe her child support but spousal too because she was a stay at home and has MS. That makes you bitter doesn't it? Now not only do you feel like you carry all of the load but you feel really "stuck" too. Am I even a little close???

#723256 03/20/02 04:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
"Wow! I hope you don't get blasted too much because your post makes it sound like your more the selfish and demanding person."<p>I've been called a lot of things, never expected selfish to be one.<p> "I'm going to ask you this question straight out and I hope you'll be honest. Are you seeing another woman or are you interested in seeing another woman? Don't worry, I'm not a hurt or bitter betrayed spouse so don't worry, I won't jump down your throat if this is the case."<p> Am I no, would I? If the right circumstance presented it's self, I could see it happeng. Seing another woman involves a lot of time. Something I have little of right now, and what little time I have is always under attack. If I come home 15 min late from work, I get the 5th degree, why were you late. If I stay for an hour for happyhour with friends, it is as if I commited a crime. I on the otherhand have no problems with her going our or doing things on her own. What goes around should come around<p> "You just seem to come across as very "annoyed" with your wife for traits she's always had that didn't bother you in the past." <p> Yes I am annoyed, they bothered me some in the past, but just add fuel to an existing fire. <p> "I really think that no matter what she did you'd be frustrated with her. Very common actions for a spouse who is interested in someone besides their own partner."<p> If the big stuff - which really bothers me - wasn't there, the small stuff wouldn't be an issue<p> "The thing is, being a stay at home mom is NOT like a job. You can't treat your children like co-workers. For the record, I am a full-time working mom and I wouldn't be able to handle the stress that I'd feel being a stay at home mom. You have some perks (i.e. sleeping in, not having to fix up for work, hanging at the pool or even shopping),"<p> Yes you are right, there are a lot of perks. The was her decision and hers alone. I did not push her in any direction, just agreed and supported it.<p>
"but how is that different then the "perks" that you receive working outside the home?? Adult company, job satisfaction, continued education and the opportunity to boast about being the bread winner."<p>Adult company? She has friends and is more than welcome to see them day time, or in the evening, so that is not an issue. Job satisfaction is what you make it. There are garbage men satisfied with their jobs, and cardiologist that aren't. Education? She didn't want it when her family would pay for it, and could go if she really wanted to. <p> "I think some couples really have a problem with jealousy when they are in your situation. To you she seems to have it made, stress free, care free life while you carry the financial burden on your back. I would bet she's jealous of you from the "perks" I listed above."<p>Jealous? no, i am not. I am a bit upset that she wants to have her cake (not having to work a full time job) and eat it too (not having to do much around the house). At one point she wanted to hire a maid. I've come home from a stressfull exhausting day, to have her tell me she's to tired to cook dinner. I had to do it, or take us out. Only to find out that she spent the afternoon at the pool. i'm sorry, but you can't say staying at home compares to a regular job Am I jealous? No, I wouldn't want to despite the stress of work. Is she? could be, but she's more than free to go to work any time. I even have enough work contacts to get her a job quickly. She doesn't want to hear it.<p>
"You both made this decision when you had children that she'd stay home with them. Even though you didn't out and out say it I think your angry she isn't working." <p>She made the decision, I am not angry that she isn't working, <p> "Why? If you get a divorce you'll not only owe her child support but spousal too because she was a stay at home and has MS. That makes you bitter doesn't it? Now not only do you feel like you carry all of the load but you feel really "stuck" too. Am I even a little close??? "<p> Yes I feel like I am carrying more than my share. I'd be more than willing if I had the consideration and support, maybe a little appreciation on the back end. I think a healthy marriage should be mutually supportive. Any time I want to bring something up, i have to weigh her expected reaction against how badly I want to do it. Sometimes it's like being 12 asking your mother if you can do something, and waiting for permission.

#723257 03/20/02 04:53 PM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 207
N
Member
Member
N Offline
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 207
I have to add.. I have a freind that LOST his wife to MS, and I don`t know when or how long your wife has been detected, or how far it has affected her, yet.. but I do know, that most of YOUR complaints are very tipical, and something a counceler can help with.. and if you should take the time to read up on your wifes desease you will LEARN that it can sometimes be a devastatingly fast moving desease and she may even evenutally NEED even more attention then your BOTH paying any attention to.. <p>cherish what time you DO have with her, and stop blaming all these complaints ON HER.. if she is demanding, say to.. talk to her about it, calmly.. IT is what is called COMMUNICATION which is EVERY WOMANS COMPLAINT... so perhaps all her dominants will slow up, if given more attention.. and that DOES NOT mean sexually.. it means emotionally.. <p>
good luck to you both.. it sounds as though you can BOTH use a mediater...<p>AV

#723258 03/20/02 05:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,887
G
Member
Member
G Offline
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,887
Sounds to me like this might be a relatively straightforward case of poor marriage skills and poor communication skills.<p>Have you and your wife tried marriage counseling, tengu?

#723259 03/20/02 05:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
Could be, I think that's part of the problem, but I also think it runs deeper than that. I have in the past tried to talk to her. Problem is she as soon as I say anything she takes it personal, get pissed and it ends up in an arguement. She typically blames me, then acts hurt and crys, then get very just angry, very pissed off. I've gotten to the point of doing anything I can to not discuss it. i know that doesn't solve anything, but, neither does ending up in a huge fight where nothing gets solved

#723260 03/21/02 12:19 PM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 207
N
Member
Member
N Offline
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 207
Tengu,<p>I will say one more thing, that I forgot to mention..<p>I am a BS, and I wished (back when my ex left) that BEFORE he left, and found some one else.. that he would have approached me and said, he wasn`t happy, and he is thinking about divorce, if we can`t work things out.. and perhaps I would have woken up.. sometimes we all need that rude awakening.. and if your wife knows the marriage in on the line, she may see things differently.. EVEN IF IT DOES CAUSE A FIGHT.. it is best to get things out, then to live in misery.. for BOTH OF YOU.. I`m SURE there are issues from both parties about how the marraige is going.. <p>IF you do try and talk with her, at least she will be aware of how you are feeling, and vise versa, instead of living in the dark.. <p>
I was wondering, why your on this site, being you did not mention wanting or getting a divorce..??? Is divorce what you want? or has it been mentioned yet, between the two of you?? <p>I hope you can both come to your sences.. really I do.. because it AIN`T fun out there, alone.. because it is all the same with the next person.. no one is perfect, so work on what you have built together, and take it from there.. it takes toooo! Long.. to build such bonds with some one new.. and it also stays as, having to keep in touch with your first wife, because of the kids.. so any one who gets involved, also has to BE involved with your ex family as well.. it is so unbeleivably confusing, and creats such kayoss, you have no idea.. and what your going through now, doesn`t even compare to the consequences if you should decide other wise.. that is FOR SURE!!<p>good luck to you..
AV

#723261 03/22/02 01:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
First off, what are all the abreviations I see? BS? Ws? etc. I can't figure that part out to save my life.<p>
We've talked about things some, bought the marriage tapes, mars venus stuff. All that did was tell her more so I was wrong, she just saw all the stuff I was not doing, but failed to read the parts she was supposed to do. We've had many talks, usually she ends up trying to turn it back to me , "no I do this, you don't do that" kind of thing, then as time goes on, turns to guilt "I'm sorry I'm such a bad person" to anger "fine Then just leave if it's so bad here". The last real talk lasted 5 min. I really didn't want to because I knew it would be a problem, but did. She packed a bag and left with in 5 min. of starting the discussion. I felt an immediate wave of relief, and 2 hours later when she came back? The weight of the world.

What do I want? I wish I could sum it up in a question. Do I want a divorce? Do I want to stay? <p>I guess I don't like who my wife has become. When we were first together, probably the first 3 of dating and 6-10 of marriage I really loved her. The past 5-7 have been a rollercoaster or hell and ok. She was probably like this in the beginning, but when you are a teenager dating? All she needs is a pulse and to say yes. When you are early 20's and married? It still works, and women at this stage usually want to do anything you want. As time goes on, kids come, you buy a house, more responsabilities come, you start to see bad traits that didn't matter in your teens and twenties when it was just the 2 of you. <p> What do I want? I'd love to be married to someone who was there to back me as much as I am there to back them. Someone that could do their thing, I do mine, and we met in the middle for us and the kids. Someone who could function on their own in life and not expect the other to do the things they don't want to do or don't feel like doing - someone that contributed as much as I. I can never see her being this no matter how much counseling we'd go to. We have just become 2 different people, and I see that as the problem. All the rest is petty bs, that would bug me but I could live with.<p>I hate to say it, but I've found sometimes it's easy to simplify things to understand them. If I simplify our relationship right now, it come to her cleaning the house and careing for the kids when I work. Beyond that - she's become a *****y roommate with benifits. Evenings and weekends, they are my responsability. She says she needs a break. Doesn't matter that I may be renevating the house on my day off, (which I've been doing for the past 6 months) I still have kid duty in the middle of working on the house, and she's been know to demand help with house work, after I've been working on the house all day on my day off. On the rare ocassions when I want to go do something on my day off I get a guilt trip from her. <p>I know this may sound petty, reading it, it probably sounds like I am pissed about having to help around the house. That is not the case, it boils down to the fact that I expect us to equally comtribute to the family. I don't expect her to grab a sledge hammer and bust down a wall, but she can do things in her own way, to her ability. I don't think it's wrong to expect her to contribute to the family. It doesn't even have to be 50-50.<p>I guess I have a hard time with the person that complains about cleaning the house insted of being gratefull for having it, or complains about their boss, job etc, insted of being gratefull they have one, or complains about taking care of their kids insted of being thankfull for them, complains about walking across a parking lot insted of being gratefull that have legs.<p>So why am I here? what do I want? I guess I really am not sure, maybe just some soul searching. You are right, it can be lonely out there, but you know what? It's worse being with someone you are not in love with, and see no prospects of loving. I guess part of me feels responsabillity, I blame my self a lot, as you said no one is perfect, and most people that divorce, usually end up in the same situation with the next person. She goes through periods of being a royal pain in the [censored], to the point I am ready to walk, and usually, just as I hit my limits, turns into the doting wife, and wants to know why I act like I do. I then start to blame my self, start to say it's all me, not her, and just about the time I start to get to a pooint of thinking there is a chance, the gates of hell open again. <p>Do I want it to end? It depends on the day you ask me. Lately, most days I say yes, I wish it would go away. I wish she would just go, go figure out who she is in life, her place in the world.

#723262 03/22/02 07:39 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 207
N
Member
Member
N Offline
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 207
WS: walk away spoouse<p>BS: betrayed spouse<p>IMHO: in my humble opinion<p>MB: marraige builders<p>CS counceling sessions<p>S: son<p>D [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] aughter<p>SD: step son<p>SD: step daughter<p>there are so many here.. too many to coveer, but let me now asK you this.. have you even read MB yet?? I see you are very new here as far as posting.. <p>As I said.. I THINK IMHO that you NEED to tell your wife, you are THINKING about divorcing, and she will then KNOW AND REALIZE things are THAT BAD!! to have a rude AWAKENING...<p>and after that, what will be, will be.. if you are that miserable, somethings got to give.. and even if it comes to sperperating, then you will both get a taste of what IS to come, as well.. <p>leet me just say, you sound very bitter, which does NOT HELP the situation.. so realy think about what your going to say, CALMLY to her.. and straight forward, and mean eveery word, seriously, not with anger.. not with bitterness, just with honesty.. take her oout to a resturant so you can`t argue (loudly) and lay everything you just wrote on the table.. or perhaps you can even go as far as copying your post, and show her how serious this is, because YOU are reaching out for help, in order to save this marriage and you don`t know what else to do, (alone) about it, and see what she thinks/says...<p>You have to start some where, with NO ARGUMENTS.. and be real.. both of you.. I am still on the track (for some gut reason) of her desease.. and perhaps her emotions about that are now geting the best of her.. she may be so scared she is loosing the point of all her/your "realities" now.. and only thinking of this debilitating desease.. (not an easy thing/fact to live with, inside ones self..)<p>IMHO... YOU BOTH NEED HELP.....!!! and that may be the one last way to save your marriage.. but find some one good... some one that givve you exeersizes to try, in order to work on things.. aot just sit there and listen, and leet you vent.. after the first few sessions, that should change, or I would try some one else.. (at least from my experience..)<p>good luck...<p>AV

#723263 03/22/02 08:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,043
G
Member
Member
G Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,043
Just to add. Sometimes the other spouse is confused adn doesn't know how to think clearly about the state of the marriage due to the fact that something is wrong but they don't know what it is. Sometimes their afraid or both spouses start withdrawing from each other and then both fall out of love.<p>This sounds like maybe a case where you may have to get some of the books where one spouse acts to affect change in the marriage for a while to get the other spouse receptive to working on the marriage herself.<p>It would be like doing a Plan A - meeting her needs. The theory of MB is that if you meet the needs of your spouse then they will be so happy that they will want to meet your needs.<p>But, one of the spouses has to eat some humble pie and get the ball rolling. The rewards at the end will be so wonderful that it would be worth a few weeks or months of singlehandedly working on the marriage in order to bring the other spouse around.<p>You should read His Needs Her Needs and fill out the questionaire (which can be printed off of this site) and get your wife to fill it out - or if she won't then you fill it out as if you were here and then try to fulfill her needs.<p>There are also other books out there to help one spouse effect change in the marriage. <p>It's possible, and it sounds like it could work in your case since there is no affair.<p>Are you willing to make one last ditch effort. Think about it because divorce is awful! It hurts friends, family, kids, you. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.<p>Read the info on this site and see if is something you want to try. You could also have at least one counseling session with one of the MB counselors - they can help jump start a plan for recovery for you and your wife.<p>Good luck! K

#723264 03/22/02 08:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
Yes, I've read most of the info on here. I've done quite a bit oon my own in the past. She said I didn't pay enough attention, I started the romantic dinner thing on friday nights. She said she didn't have enough time to do her thing, I told her I'd watch the kids on the nights I don't work out and weekends, she can go do what she wants. Her complain then was she didn't have anyone to do things with. I like to socialize, have friends over, parties. She complains that she'll get stuck cleaning up. My wife makes excuses for things she doesn't want to do. She complains about being at home, I suggested she get a full time job, that pissed her of. It's hard to try to put feelings in words, and have someone else read and then feel exactly the same thing. Hemmingway could do it, but then I am not he. As I said before, we've become 2 different people. I do what needs to be done, and at the same time, expect the other person to do there share. I don't mind being there to pick up the slack, but don't want do "my jobs" and then split hers 50-50 between us, which is her idea. I've probably done much of the plan a without knowing what it was. Problem is, the more I give, the more she wants, and that becomes the new level of expectation, and it all starts over again. The only plan a that would work for her would be if I gave up any outside activities, gave up years I've invested in martial arts. Never worked late, never did anything but sit on the soffa and watch tv with her, or help her with everything she does. I'm sorry, but I am not a cabin boy, and that is what I'd need to be, and that is what plan a, and the other marriage tapes we bought off of tv say. For the most part, any marriage counsoling seems to place the blame and burden of correction on the guy. I've seen very little that directs the woman to initiate changes. Years ago, we purchased the Beverly diangelo tapes, Gary Smiley, mars venus. They all for the most part blame marriage problems on the guys inattention, and it's up to him to plan a her. I may sound bitter, but i really am not, probably more frustrated, dismayed, and tired

#723265 03/22/02 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,887
G
Member
Member
G Offline
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,887
Hmm...<p>Thought #1: Clearly, tengu, you are describing two people with boundary issues. Even if you are not a Christian, you might want to take a look at Cloud and Townsend's books Boundaries and/or Boundaries in Marriage.<p>Thought #2: When someone complains about everything and rejects all solutions, the complaining itself is serving a purpose beyond the identification of problems. This behavior can be an indicator of depression or some other emotional/psychological avoidance mechanism. If that's what's going on with your wife, tengu, you won't be able to "fix" your relationship until your wife deals with her underlying issues.

#723266 03/22/02 11:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
Boundry issues? Yes I think you are very accurate with this one. Some people can deal with a controlling person. That is one thing that gets to me every time. I have a very hard time with people that take advantage of others, and take others for granted. <p>
I think you might be right about the complaining, but it also may be a very juvenile way of getting what you want. She knows if she pisses and moans enough I'll cave, and if that doesn't work, tears will, and if all else fails, sex will almost always get the job done. I think she does have some issues, and some of this is probably from her father who is exactly the same. She'd never admit it, but she is exactly like him. He never exploded, was more nagging and picking, make the other person feel guilty. And it was (like with her) over little things. He'd sit down for dinner, and if his napkin wasn' there, or butter, the food was cold or what ever, he'd act like a spoiled child and have a tantrum about it. She used to hate him doing that, but ironicly, she is almost exactly the same.

#723267 03/22/02 12:42 PM
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 818
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 818
Sorry to have posted and then left for a couple of days. I was off to meetings. Thanks for answering my questions. I have a brother that is my very best friend. I learn alot about men in general from him and he's also very honest and straight forward, which I appreciate. In return when he feels that he needs to vent he calls me. He and his wife have two small children only about 14 months apart. They seem to always have a battle about who does more around the house. He sometimes gets very frustrated that his fellow neighbors can spend all evening working in the yard and he has to stay inside to "help" with the kids and the house work. Then of course, he does the yard work by himself. If you talk to his wife the situation looks entirely different to her. I would suspect your wife is the same way. Another thing I should tell you about myself. I'm in my second marriage. During my first marriage I like you married young. Like your wife, I was controlling. I had the temper tantrums sometimes. For me this type of behavior came from pure frustrations. I was just as frustrated with my ex as you are with your wife. Earlier in our marriage and earlier in our problems had my ex communicated with me and made it completely understood that he was ready to give up on the marriage that might have been the ticket to my trying to change. But he didn't and as the marriage progressed each of us grew more and more bitter and took turns placing blame on the other until our marriage finally fell apart and I did have an affair. I think that in some ways you enable your wives behavior by eventually giving in. Either from her complaining, crying or sex. Your encouraging the behavior that way. Don't encourage and then complain about it. My suggestion is when she is yelling or crying that you calmly tell her that you will not have any discussions with her until she's ready to talk about it in a controlled and adult manner and then walk away. See, I think people are the way they are in a marriage largely because of who they are married too. In my second marriage I am NOT controlling, I've never once had a temper tantrum and work hard to see that our marriage is balanced. I think a lot of what your wife "is" has to do with what you "are" and vs. versa. I think the two of you can pull it together but there needs to be a lot of radical honesty for both of you first. And that means no controlling the other with threats or temper tantrums.

#723268 03/23/02 01:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
"Sorry to have posted and then left for a couple of days. I was off to meetings."<p> No problem, I know how it goes <p>"He and his wife have two small children only about 14 months apart. They seem to always have a battle about who does more around the house. He sometimes gets very frustrated that his fellow neighbors can spend all evening working in the yard and he has to stay inside to "help" with the kids and the house work. Then of course, he does the yard work by himself."<p>This seems to be a common theme. i've talked to so many guys that have this same type of issue. It seems like women look at all they have to do, then want to split it in half, and arrive at 50-50 in the relationship. They don't look at what he does, look at what they do, and derive a middle ground from there. It's this" I have 10 things to do, heres 5 for him and 5 for me, doens't matter that he has his 15 things to do.<p> "If you talk to his wife the situation looks entirely different to her. I would suspect your wife is the same way. Another thing I should tell you about myself. I'm in my second marriage. During my first marriage I like you married young. Like your wife, I was controlling. I had the temper tantrums sometimes." <p>Seems to be a very common theme. From guys I talk to, those that married older, or married women that had been married before, this seems less an issue.<p>"For me this type of behavior came from pure frustrations. I was just as frustrated with my ex as you are with your wife."<p>frustrations from what? because he didn't do what you wanted him to do? How "right" is that? If so, you like my wife make a decision for me, and then demand I abide by this decision made for me. I like your 1st hubby am an adult, supposedly able to make my own decisions.<p> "Earlier in our marriage and earlier in our problems had my ex communicated with me and made it completely understood that he was ready to give up on the marriage that might have been the ticket to my trying to change."<p>I suspect if I told her that, she might change, I bet she'd probably explode, cry, and then maybe give in. But then how fair is that? She'd just start doing anything I wanted out of fear, and then the problem would reverse. She'd probably feel as I do.<p> "I think that in some ways you enable your wives behavior by eventually giving in. Either from her complaining, crying or sex. Your encouraging the behavior that way. Don't encourage and then complain about it."<p>You are right. But I guess I weigh and decide which is worse. She wants me to do something I automaticly weigh how much trouble it is to do it, vs the war if I don't. Let's see, 15 min to do it, or a weekend of misery, plus a guilt trip when she decides to "forgive" me. I'll take the 15 min. I have drawn a few lines in the sand, and you are right, she won't cross them, but she's not opposed to walking along them, and kicking sand over the line.<p>
"I think people are the way they are in a marriage largely because of who they are married too. In my second marriage I am NOT controlling, I've never once had a temper tantrum and work hard to see that our marriage is balanced."<p>Yes I think you are right to a degree, but why do you do that now, and not in the first? Why didn't you see that there was a ballance in the 1st?<p> "I think a lot of what your wife "is" has to do with what you "are" and vs. versa. I think the two of you can pull it together but there needs to be a lot of radical honesty for both of you first. And that means no controlling the other with threats or temper tantrums. "<p>I agree 100%, but I don't think (past experiance demonstrated this) she has the strength to handle the truth, especially not like an adult.

#723269 03/23/02 01:19 AM
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 818
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 818
I have no clue how I can get what you posted on this post so I can answer your questions-like you did for me. So, I'll try and remember what you asked. Did I have my temper tantrums in my first marriage because my ex didn't do what I wanted him to?? Yes and no. And I guess more then it being temper tantrums it was B*t(&ing on my part. I tried for years to talk but it was like talking to a brick wall and when I'd get completely frustrated I'd resort to screaming. And of course, that doesn't work either. I remember being gone to dinner with a friend one night and he was in charge of the house and kids. Daughter was 3 at the time. I asked that the kids be in bed by 9 or so. I got home after 11:00 and he and the kids were down a few houses around a fire with some neighbor guys. He was drunk and the kids were playing on the neighbor's swing set, barefoot and it was cool out at that time of night. It was childish behavior like this that I tried to control. So yes, he'd make me angry when he didn't do what I asked but then again, he made decisions like a child. What frustrated me the most about him was his ignorance. Ok, now I'm being honest. The older I got the more responsible I got. I worked with men that ran circles around him and the more I got a peek at other men/families the more he made me sick. So yes, I tried to control him and yes I wore the pants in the family but I never enjoyed it. In fact, it made me miserable that I was married to a man that I had no respect for and I didn't trust. I felt he couldn't take care of himself let alone a wife and children. My second marriage is much better (good in fact) for a lot of reasons. Some has to do with age and experience and some has to do with learning from the mistakes in my first marriage. My second husband also takes responsibility and I trust and respect him. He gives me no reason to feel like I either need or want control. I'd never have a temper tantrum or yell at him for a couple of reasons. One, he's never given me a reason to do this and two, he'd never stand for it.

#723270 03/22/02 02:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
"I remember being gone to dinner with a friend one night and he was in charge of the house and kids. Daughter was 3 at the time. I asked that the kids be in bed by 9 or so. I got home after 11:00 and he and the kids were down a few houses around a fire with some neighbor guys. He was drunk and the kids were playing on the neighbor's swing set, barefoot and it was cool out at that time of night."<p> Ok, I can see being upset at this one. But I'll ask this, have the 2 of you gone to friends with the kids and stayed late? Were the kids in bed by 9 all the time, or did you let them stay up late on ocassion. Did you drink when you were at friends or family with the kids? I can see about the kids being out in the cold without appropriate clothes. However if you answered yes to the rest, then you are making a decision (have the kids in bed by 9) and saying it superceeds his decision (the kids can stay up late tonight). Please understand, i'm not trying to take sides, or say anyone is right or wrong. I'm just trying to take your example and fit it to my problem, might not be the best thing to do, but hopefully you can get my point.<p>
"It was childish behavior like this that I tried to control. So yes, he'd make me angry when he didn't do what I asked but then again, he made decisions like a child."<p>I can agree with you on this one, i think it was probably too much, though i wasn't around then. Mine is more like I come home from work, my wife decides she wants help cleaning, cooking etc. I can come home early on thurs and stay an hour late on fri to hit happyhour with friend. I hear the riot act. This is small petty crap. It pisses me off that it's an issue, and it really isn't it's the controlling "I'm going to tell you what you can or can't do" attitude. If I were ward clever, get home at 3, play with the kids till dinner, clean up after dinner, sit on the sofa and watch tv till bed type of person she'd be perfectly happy. The more I deviate from that the more issues there are. <p>
"What frustrated me the most about him was his ignorance. Ok, now I'm being honest. The older I got the more responsible I got. I worked with men that ran circles around him and the more I got a peek at other men/families the more he made me sick."<p> Yes I agree with you here. I work with and associate with women that can run circles around her. I've met many that are as unhappy with their spouses, and many whom I would not have the issues with that I have with my wife. To be fair, I know there would be other issues, there always are. However, I could live with a lot, controlling domeneering - that is 1 thing I can't tollerate at all.<p>
"So yes, I tried to control him and yes I wore the pants in the family but I never enjoyed it. "<p> Ithink she truely does, she gets her way, anything she wants.<p>
"In fact, it made me miserable that I was married to a man that I had no respect for"<p>Yes you are right here as well.<p>
"I felt he couldn't take care of himself let alone a wife and children."<p>I can't say this, she can take care of the kids, but *****es about it all the time. In reality I care for the little one as much or more if we add up hours etc, and i work on top of that, plus working on the house on my off time. I really hate to say it, it's cold and cruel, but the fact is she contributes little more than daycare and being a maid. She does have her moments, I see glimpses of the person I married, maybe a day here, a few hours there. The ***** of it is I then feel like I'm the [censored], she's wonderfull, and i am the one all screwed up.<p>
"I trust and respect him."
This is a novel concept mutual trust and respect

#723271 03/22/02 03:42 PM
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 818
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 818
Ok, I can see being upset at this one. But I'll ask this, have the 2 of you gone to friends with the kids and stayed late? Were the kids in bed by 9 allthe time, or did you let them stay up late on ocassion. Did you drink when you were at friends or family with the kids? I can see about the kids being out in the cold without appropriate clothes. However if you answered yes to the rest, then you are making a decision (have the kids in bed by 9)
and saying it superceeds his decision (the kids can stay up late tonight). Please understand, i'm not trying to take sides, or say anyone is right or wrong. I'm just trying to take your example and fit it to my problem, might not be the best thing to do, but hopefully you can get my point.<p>Oh I understand why you asked this question. Of course I drank sometimes out with friends and sometimes the kids did stay up a little past their bedtime. This was just an example of multiple childish actions. I would not make a big issue out of it if it was not the "usual" for him. But you know, I always was the "boss", made all of the decisions. He had no clue as to what our bills were or what decisions needed to be made in day to day life. When I asked for his opinion it was always "I don't know, what ever you think". In fact what ever I thought he thought too! Gosh, we went through our marriage like this for years (married 11-12 yrs by the way)and seemed to live in perfect harmony. It wasn't until I started observing other families where the decisions were mutual that WE started to have problems. I started to not only ask for his opinions and help in making decisions but actually pushing him. I think he kinda freaked because that's when he reminded me of a teenager and started to rebel. He was a good dad before that but I think it was because I told him to be and he was good at following orders. For instance I'd say "Can you take the kids to the park?" "Would you give them a bath?" Stuff like that and he'd do it. But when I stopped telling or asking him to do it he wouldn't. It just caused me to think even more ill of him. Our fighting really didn't happen until I started pushing. Well, we had a few arguements but not like we did the last couple of years. In regards to my affair it's like the chicken or the egg. Did my looking else where happen because of my frustrations at home or did the OM cause some of my frustrations at home? What is interesting is that when he found out about the OM he immediately went out and picked up another woman, moved in with her two weeks later. During our divorce (because it was long and messy), there was documentation of her telling the mediator that she wouldn't marry "him" until he grew up and learned how to take care of himself. Funny, 6+ years later they are still unmarried! But what is even more surprising is the fact that she is even more controlling and in charge then I ever was. She's so bad that his family has almost nothing to do with him. The kids tell me that their father and her fight all of the time. Son says "Well, she just yells and yells, dad trys to say something but she always wins". The man had a chance to start a life with a woman that might care about him more then I did and might not see his personality as a weakness yet he picked one like that. Sorry....I'm rambling now. Do you think that your wife was always the one in control, and her personality really hasn't changed much? Do you think it might be you that changed? Were you the dad that stayed home every night and did everything she asked until one day you decided that you wanted a beer with the guy sometimes and you wanted to make your own decisions??? Maybe she's always been the woman she is today and you changed? If that's the case I would imagine that scares her. I know my ex didn't have a clue when instead of doing it all I expected him to help. I was changing and he didn't like it. Our entire past was set up as myself being the care giver and now I wanted him to shoulder some of it. He reacted like a rebellious teen and maybe your wife is reacting with temper tantrums because she's not in as much control as she once was??

#723272 03/22/02 04:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 134
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 134
Your right your wife has a list. She just hasn't found this site yet.
No where in your orginal post did i see or get the feeling that you brought any of this to her attention.
Nor did i see you say but i do things like this that might irrate.
You definitely sound unhappy
maybe possibly falling out of love? Already have? Getting tired of being the sole provider? You need to address these issues in a positive fashion quickly because you already sound bitter and resentment is not to far behind.
Have you been talking to other people and envying their relationships?
just wondering......

#723273 03/22/02 04:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 57
I'm sure in my younger days when we were first married? I had not really lived on my own, looking back, I could barely tie my shoes, but then, she wasn't much better. Why I got married then, that young I guess what can I say. Thinking with the wrong part of my anatomy. The first 5, maybe 10 years we were together (3 years dating included) I was a puppydog, quite happy to spend time with her. There just was none of this power struggle (she's even used that exact term many times) I don't think in the early day either of us was in control, but i think control abhores a vaccume, and I think she say the opportunity and took it. I don't want either of us to be in control, I want us to mutually live together. She (by demonstration of her actions) wants to be the boss. Or at least, she wants me to agree with her 100%. I am just not the type that wants a confrontation over every little thing. I think the world has enough, I think home is one place we should be able to go with no figting, or very rarely.<p>"maybe your wife is reacting with temper tantrums because she's not in as much control as she once was??"<p>
I'm sure this is part of it. I want to venture out into the world on my own and have a life of my own. I'm sure she feels threatened. But at the same time, I think she feels that anytime i don't put her and the kids as #1, then I am cheating them, not giving them all they are due. She didn't mind if I worked ot, when I got paid for it, or if I work a side job and make cash, but if I spent half that much time doing something on my own it'd be an issue.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 431 guests, and 99 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Toothsome, IO Games, IronMaverick, Gregory Robinson, Limkao
72,038 Registered Users
Latest Posts
Three Times A Charm
by Vallation - 07/24/25 11:54 PM
How important is it to get the whole story?
by still seeking - 07/24/25 01:29 AM
Annulment reconsideration help
by abrrba - 07/21/25 03:05 PM
Help: I Don't Like Being Around My Wife
by abrrba - 07/21/25 03:01 PM
Following Ex-Wifes Nursing Schedule?
by Roger Beach - 07/16/25 04:21 AM
My wife wants a separation
by Roger Beach - 07/16/25 04:20 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,625
Posts2,323,524
Members72,039
Most Online6,102
Jul 3rd, 2025
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 2025, Marriage Builders, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0