This has been puzzling me for quite some time. It baffled me after my H's first A, and of course, continues to baffle me after this last A which led to our demise, Divorce.<p>My H demonstrates no shame. Not only does he not avoid situations or events where he knows people that are empathetic to me and quite disgusted with him will be in attendance. He will intentionally make his presence known. He will go out of his way to get visibility from people HE KNOWS disapprove of his behavior. He demonstrates not an ounce of ignominy. [my new word for the day: Definition - dishonor, humiliation ]. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Does he not have a clue? Or is he faking it? Or, is it he simply feels by virtue of being Divorced that he is absolved of all wrong doing.<p>Does anyone else's ex behave similarly??? <p>Maybe I'm just gaging what he does against my morals and ethics, because if I had done what he has done, I certainly would not intentionally be where people I knew didn't like me, or disapproved of me or my behavior. <p>Love,
Jo<p>[ April 10, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>Does anyone else's ex behave similarly??? <p>Maybe I'm just gaging what he does against my on morals and ethics, because if I had done what he has done, I certainly would not intentionally be where people I knew didn't like me, or disapproved of me or my behavior. <p>Love,
Jo</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Interesting subject Jo. Why is their no shame? Is it because they believe the path of lies they've laid down in front of them?<p>I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about morals. Morals are based upon our individual beliefs, therefore if someone does not share in our beliefs then they do not believe they have done anything morally wrong. MAYBE<p>My X, for the sake of conversation we'll call her Idiot Girl, paraded a boyfriend around my kids. Totally upset me, well then the OM found out about the BF and made her dump the BF. Now she is starting to parade the OM around at events, just as you stated, where no one likes her. Add that to the fact that I'll bet you $31.53 that she moves in with the OM at the end of the school year in a shack up relationship. Morally wrong, according to me yes. Complicate matters by throwing in the fact that she will attempt to make my daughters switch schools, once again, and you've got a little delima on your hands.<p>And no, I have seen absolutely no hint of humility or shame from her. She just continues with the lies and deceit. So I'm preparing for my next court battle, not over the shack up, but over the school issue.<p>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

"He will go out of his way to get visibility from people HE KNOWS disapprove of his behavior." What behavior? He's divorced now isn't he? So if he's out in public with a woman isn't that ok if your not married to somebody else? I don't know, I think it depends how long you've been divorced. I was a WS years ago and I've been re-married for years. My ex was a WS too. To be honest, I don't really think about it because that was so past...I had remorse, guilt at one time but how long are you suppose to carry that around? I talk and sometimes hang out with my ex-inlaws. I don't know, maybe I'm around people who know about my past too but that doesn't even cross my mind when I attend events. At this stage I don't even think they think about it anymore. They have moved on in their life enough where they have something else to gossip about besides me.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by LostHusband:
I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about morals. Morals are based upon our individual beliefs, therefore if someone does not share in our beliefs then they do not believe they have done anything morally wrong. MAYBE<hr></blockquote><p>Well Bill .. I would tend to think if the WS married the OP and the OP cheated on THEM, I bet we'd see a different side to their "MORALS / BELIEFS". At the very least, it's probable they'd be touting something entirely different then they did during their A during our marriages. Funny how that works, huh?<p>Jo<p>[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BonnieSept:
"He will go out of his way to get visibility from people HE KNOWS disapprove of his behavior." What behavior? He's divorced now isn't he? So if he's out in public with a woman isn't that ok if your not married to somebody else? I don't know, I think it depends how long you've been divorced. I was a WS years ago and I've been re-married for years. My ex was a WS too. To be honest, I don't really think about it because that was so past...I had remorse, guilt at one time but how long are you suppose to carry that around? I talk and sometimes hang out with my ex-inlaws. I don't know, maybe I'm around people who know about my past too but that doesn't even cross my mind when I attend events. At this stage I don't even think they think about it anymore. They have moved on in their life enough where they have something else to gossip about besides me.<hr></blockquote><p>Thanks for responding, Bonnie.<p>My ex and I have been Divorced 9 months. I know time heals all, and can change people's perception, but I don't believe 9 mos is anything like years of being Divorced. <p>I only bring this up because several friends have commented on my ex-H's boldness, his shamelessness ... they were a bit shocked to realize he was at a few gatherings, etc. (deliberately uninvited I might add) and a bit astonished at his outward and dominant demeanor.<p>I can see that I'm judging him, which is wrong. I just know I would feel shame, which shouldn't be confused with remorse or guilt, if I had betrayed and abandoned my H of 20 years, to be with one of the two men I had a baby with. A man who harassed my H simply because he was trying to save our marriage. <p>I dunno, call me silly. <p>Jo<p>[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>I dunno, call me silly. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>OK<p>
Silly Goose!!!!!!! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sorry, couldn't resist, plus I say it so cute, that's what I call my youngest much of the time.

My x must be feeling something. AT our kids, sporting events she usually sits alone or away from the other team parents with her om/h.<p>At my son's last basketball game, it was a small gym and x and om/h sat down near the other team parents, apprently they didn't realize that my g/f(I was coaching so I didn't see this) was sitting with the team parents too. When they did realize it they got up and moved away.<p>She must also be having problems with her family. Yesterday was her and her father's birthday. We always had a big celebration. I don't know what she did the last 2 yrs, but this year she didn't even go out. The kids thought that they were going, but they didn't.<p>Not sure what this proves, and I no longer care.

well, yes, some of us do have morals..but then I had them in even the midst of the EA..<p>I struggled with the relationship w/ OM and he knew it..I wanted that type of emotional bond w/ my now ex that I grew to have w/ OM and ended the EA, that was in Dec. of 1999, very painful..even went through the withdrawls..for about a month afterwards..but realized if I was going to work on the marriage then I needed to focus on that..<p>went to individual and couples counseling..and h accused me and the counselor of plotting against him to get him there..when he called and scheduled the appointment himself..he'd even called the insurance company to get the names of counselors..<p>I'd asked my h to find another job and be home..and even said I'd go back to work to help financially.His response."NO WAY..NO HOW..wasn't going to happen..I was going to stay home..and the only reason you'd even consider going to work was so you could meet someone else..or would make enough money and wouldn't need me anymore"..I even said I'd wanted to continue my education and his response was --"your a stay home mom and don't need an education..the only reason you'd want to go back to school is so you can get a job and leave me"well, he wanted me to quit school I was only taking one class and I didn't want to quit school..I'd been wanting to go back to college for years..and he'd always prevented it..because he felt I only wanted to go so I could leave him..he would call drunk telling me to send him money because he was broke..(he'd drink it all away and couldn't afford to pay his rent and hotel expenses when he worked out of town) and then cuss me out because he was broke..I'd started putting a little bit aside a week to save to get new carpet..and was accused of saving for a divorce..
but thats all in many ways irrelevant to this post..except to say this...<p>I started seeing this man again for a couple months after I seperated and we ended it again because 'he' met someone else..and wanted to go out w/ her so I let him go..I was okay with that. yes it hurt, but if he didn't want to be here, I couldn't make him want to be here, and my divorce wasn't final anyway..and then he showed up at my house about 6 months later I told him go away..didn't want to see him anymore..it was over..he called about a month later and asked if we could talk..so we got together to talk..he wanted to know if we could try it again..I was hesitant..but I started seeing him again..and we've been seeing each other since..still taking things slowly..not wanting to jump into anything..we see each other a few times a week he helps out around my home fixing things..helps cook dinner, and do dishes, helps w/ laundry, mow the yard..and things ex never did..it scares me though that if it were to go any further those things would stop..so I don't want to rush it..I want to build that trust..<p>My ex hates that he and I are seeing each other again..and takes it out on the kids..he blames the OM for our marriage ending..which I guess in some ways..if I am completely honest with myself..
I'd have to say in some ways he is..in that he showed me what a loving, non-abusive relationship should be like..and I wouldn't settle for anything less than that now..h moved out during a time when I wasn't involved in the EA, and hadn't seen the man in like nine months except in passing and he was with someone else..and as far as I was concerned it was over..and I was happy..<p>So am I ashamed or do I feel guilty about this relationship now?? No, I don't..I know that I did everything I could..and knew I couldn't change his abusive patterns..so I had to make a choice for me..on what was acceptable and was wasn't..<p>I do hurt that things weren't different in my marriage..I do hurt that he feels abuse is okay..
but I don't feel bad that I am out of it..<p>So yes, some of us do have regrets..that things aren't different and couldn't be different.. I don't flaunt the relationship w/ this man in my ex's face..but I won't pretend that it doesn't exist either..<p>I also wanted to add, I dealt with the guilt and shame when I went to my ex and confessed the EA to begin with..and I went to God and sought his forgiveness..and He forgave me..because I asked..
and I forgive myself -- and won't live a life of self-condemnation...my sin has been paid for on the cross, and there is nothing I can do to make payment for it for the rest of my life..<p>[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]<p>[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I went to God and sought his forgiveness..and He forgave me..because I asked..
and I forgive myself -- and won't live a life of self-condemnation...my sin has been paid
for on the cross, and there is nothing I can do to make payment for it for the rest of my life..<hr></blockquote><p>If this is what it means to be a Christian, I am VERY glad I never was one. It must be nice to be able to get rid of guilt so simply. I would have thought that "forgiveness" would necessitate that the sinner do whatever possible to undo the damage...<p>Jo,<p>From the time my H left, he avoided people whom he knew disapproved of what he had done, as you and I would expect. <p>I can not imagine how it could make any difference how much time had passed. The passage of time doesn't make it any less wrong.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Nellie1:
<strong>I would have thought that "forgiveness" would necessitate that the sinner do whatever possible to undo the damage...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I am a Christian, and the religous doctrines I follow specifically state that in order for true repentence to occur (and therefore, for forgiveness to be granted) the sinner must recompense those that have been offended by the sin as far as is possible. It just makes sense to me.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Nellie1:
<strong>I can not imagine how it could make any difference how much time had passed. The passage of time doesn't make it any less wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>So does this. Well said.<p>Good questions, Jo. I think that in a lot of cases ws's are simply so self-deluded that they believe their own lies. My x tried to tell me recently that her moral compass and mine were "closer than [I] think". She has acted against every single moral code that I believe in, yet claims that her moral compass is close to mine. I have no idea how she can rationalize that, but there it is. I guess maybe she thinks I'm just as amoral as she is. <shrug>

nellie...If this is what it means to be a Christian, I am VERY glad I never was one. It must be nice to be able to get rid of guilt so simply. I would have thought that "forgiveness" would necessitate that the sinner do whatever possible to undo the damage...<p>snl...That implies forgiveness is conditional, in which case it isn't forgiveness, it is quid pro quo....you do whatever "I" thik appropriate and I will forgive you... If so, then if one does not want your forgiveness they need do nothing..correct? If you mean forgiveness is more again to rehabilitation, then you are suggesting taking ones punishment (from the bs I assume) and if one behaves satisfactorily they will be paroled/released..the forgiveness "earned". Many do think something like that, but no one has the power to judge another's worth, we are all sovereign individuals empowered to do whatever we wish, subject to the consequnences therein. The notion a ws has injured a bs is rooted in control and manipulation, in fact, a ws has (assuming no actual malice in their choice to the bs) done what they wish with their life, they owe the bs nothing. In reality people mostly do care about each others emotional well-being, and recognizing the impact violating trust may have on a bs, many ws will attempt to make some sort of ammends, some more, some less, depending on the individuals and the circumstances....but there are limits, and bs who think they are "owed" something view their ws as property IMO, and the marriage as a contract (with penalties)...rather than a freewill attempt at a bonding that meets both members nees such that neither will bond anywhere else....<p>If the effort fails, it fails, it really doesn't make any difference how or why...all the remorse, guilt, and shame in the world is not going to restore a marriage if one/both of the parties (bs or ws) does not want to be married...correct? I really don't see why anyone really cares at all about these things, which are only affectations anyways....what really matters is whether all the parties in this are willing to be radically honest, and do the self-introspection required to determine whether they really should be married at all. It puzzles me bs think their pain is of some special significance, yes it hurts, but so what? It is done, it has happened, you fix it, or you move on....dwelling on it, and whether you can "forgive" someone is a pointless, and ultimately futile path to healing IMO.

As a former WS who wanted to die after my affair, I can tell you that YES, there are WS's (me, for one) who feel TONS of shame EVEN STILL.<p>Go ahead and delve into this question, and it is a good one, but don't believe that because YOUR spouse feels no shame that NONE OTHERS do.<p>I am here to tell you that I live with my sins every day of my life.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Nellie1:
<strong>
If this is what it means to be a Christian, I am VERY glad I never was one. It must be nice to be able to get rid of guilt so simply. I would have thought that "forgiveness" would necessitate that the sinner do whatever possible to undo the damage...<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>Much respect Nellie, but this is HARSH.<p>Yes, I'm a Christian who asked God for forgiveness, but the guilt is not yet gone completely, even though God has forgiven me.

osbane...I am a Christian, and the religous doctrines I follow specifically state that in order for true repentence to occur (and therefore, for forgiveness to be granted) the sinner must recompense those that have been offended by the sin as far as is possible. It just makes sense to me.<p>snl...I am curious osbane, what is this recompensation, where is it written? Does one grovel at the feet of the bs? Does one enslave themself to the bs? Does one gaurantee the bs undying love forever? How does one recompsence turning away from the marriage? An affair is (IMO) essentially a writ of divorce pretty much, one has left the marriage, it is done, over, why does the ws owe the bs anything at all? Isn't marriage about free choice? Or is it some kind of emotional contract, ones spouse owes themself to you, has nothing to do with love, nurturing, safety, healt, joy...just simple emotional bondage you own them. My problem with all these notions of forgiveness, shame, guilt, debt, injury is they are all self-serving bs positions...they have nothing to do with the well-being of the ws...why is that you think? Frankly the only thing I would want from a ws is "why" the rest of it is meaningless, and resolves nothing. I don't care how sorry someone is who injuries me (and my bs has injured me plenty over the years) what I want to know is why, and whether I can expect the same in the future. I haven't been a bs, but I doubt I would feel any different, I have already been seriously betrayed, and injured many times over, and I would take being a bs over what I have been subjected to anyday...at least that makes a nice clean line of demarcation, now the marriage will be resolved one way or another, no more hiding, pretending all is ok, that kinda appeals to me actually, much better than the slow death of decades of neglect, and emotional abuse many of us suffer. People act in ways that cause pain to others, so what, that's life as a human being. It is nice when folks try to make ammends, it makes us all feel a little safer, but it is not necessary to our well-being.

I can only speak for myself, of course. I was in the process of divorcing my x in our church. I had not filed for a legal divorce yet. We lived in the same house, although we hadn't slept together in years. One of the prerequisites of the religious divorce is to live together but NOT have SF for three months--to make sure there was no pending pregnancy. <p>I met my new husband at tne end of the waiting period. I was planning to move out (it was October) over the Christmas break so that my kids could ease into the new situation.<p>I met my new husband on the internet, though he lived here in Dallas. A week later we met in person--I have no clue why I would agree to such a thing...but it was wham! boom! We spent every moment together that we could..shamefully, I even neglected my kids in the short period of time.<p>Do I feel guilty? Yes. I should have cooled it with the new one until I was divorced. Would I do it again? I certainly hope not. I was way off on my timing. And I won't make any excuses for it. But it was something that I have had to make amends for to my x.

Nellie1:<p>If this is what it means to be a Christian, I am VERY glad I never was one. It must be nice to be able to get rid of guilt so simply. I would have thought that "forgiveness" would necessitate that the sinner do whatever possible to undo the damage...<p>
TR- actually no forgiveness isn't having to work your way to a clear conscious or live under mounds of guilt...<p>yes, You do go to the other person, confess what you've done, and apologize for how you hurt them..and they can choose to forgive you or not..you can also work to salvage the relationship..and make things right..and I did that -- he didn't want to make things right..and that was his choice..based on what he felt..but God does not require that we continue to live in guilt and shame for our sins..He says "there is therefore now NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" so based on that..and based on my understanding of Christ..He forgave me my sins, just as He does others...and I no longer have to be guilty and ashamed of it..and continue to live feeling like I did something completely horrid..and if you think thats wrong..well that is your choice..but to me, it is a wonderful feeling knowing that God loves me and forgives me even knowing I am not perfect..and knowing that I will make mistakes..and He loves me anyway...<p>just as He did the adultress women in the Bible..who was drug before Him to be stoned..He told her He doesn't condemn her..Go and Sin no more..He didn't add and go back and make restitution to all those you have hurt because of your adultry..he didn't add, and feel guilty the rest of your days..and live a life of shame and guilt..<p>I do understand that you were hurt badly by your husbands betrayal..as were many others here..
and that the pain is still there..and you want him to acknowledge that hurt in some way..<p>I did acknowledge the hurt I caused my ex..but that doesn't mean I need to continue in a marriage that was abusive to me even before the EA started one I should have left years ago before this happened...and I don't need to stay in a marriage where my mistake will be thrown up in my face every day for the rest of my life..how do I know it would be?? because he still throws relationships in my face that I had from before I ever knew him..and I won't continue to live like that..and I don't have too..life is to short..
nobody should..

I have to agree with SnL that carrying around the notion of needing a pound of flesh(so to speak) from the WS has got to be laid aside. It really doesn't do anyone any good, least of all the BS.<p> My situation desended into some pretty nasty territory with my WS doing some horrible things, which left me homeless, bankrupt and emotionally ruined. I wanted to see a show of remorse as well and I waited for it, and guilted for it and begged for it to no avail.<p> In the end it wasn't until I stopped expecting anything from my WS that I started to heal and could focus on myself and what I needed. The die was cast and no amount of show guilt from ws would have changed anything.

I wish now that I could have let go with more love and less anger. It would have been healthier for both of us. I don't envy the WS their path is a hard one. At least the BS has the luxury of knowing they tried, even if it was in a half-assed way like I did [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>SnL wrote:
I would take being a bs over what I have been subjected to anyday...at least that makes a nice clean line of demarcation, now the marriage will be resolved one way or another, no more hiding, pretending all is ok, that kinda appeals to me actually, much better than the slow death of decades of neglect, and emotional abuse many of us suffer. People act in ways that cause pain to others, so what, that's life as a human being. It is nice when folks try to make ammends, it makes us all feel a little safer, but it is not necessary to our well-being.<hr></blockquote><p>It wouldn't be that cut and dried being a BS, SnL. MANY BS have experienced both types of betrayal. They have been both emotionally neglected/abused for years as well as had their spouse betray them with cheating/infidelity/adultery.<p>So be ever so careful what you wish for, ... the grass is always greener and all that.<p>Jo<p>[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

yes, let me hasten to add I have NO desire to be a bs.<p>I dunno jo, this goes on over and over and over, obsession about pain, and betrayal, and woe is me...not just in infidelity but in life in general, everyone is a victime...ya know? I guess I just never have been much on feeling sorry for myself, one just picks up the pieces and keeps on keeping on....it seems foolish to expect anything from life in terms of fairness, their are no "laws" of fairness, just cold, implacable laws of the universe, mostly that everyday is a struggle and every new day a gift, you look forward NOT backward, and no matter how "painful" an affair is, it is done, it happened, and the ONLY thing that counts is whether you (the bs), percieve the ws as being worthy of traveling another day with....mostly they are not IMO. (not in terms of goodness or badness, but in terms the marriage is never really going to be a safe,healthy,nurturing,joyous place for either....yes sometimes it will recover and be terrific, but I suspect that is not very common. Ya know, the statistics seem to indicate affairs themselves do not automatically end marriages, but they do reveal they are not very nurturing places, and the vast majority of people who try to recover, and stay married are not very happy. I wonder how it would work if an affair meant automatic divorce, people then had to seperate for at least a year, and date others as well as ex-spouse....I wonder how many ex-spouses would remarry (each other)....I suspect very few.<p>[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

Resilient:<p>My H demonstrates no shame. Not only does he not avoid situations or events where he knows people that are empathetic to me and quite disgusted with him will be in attendance. He will intentionally make his presence known. He will go out of his way to get visibility from people HE KNOWS disapprove of his behavior. He demonstrates not an ounce of ignominy. [my new word for the day: Definition - dishonor, humiliation ]. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
TR- Why does he not demonstrate shame? I guess that could be explained this way (The Wounded Heart, Dan Allender pg. 72)<p>"the three elements of shame - exposure, revelation, and consequences - are relatively complex, but what complicates shame even more is the final aspect: TRUST..Shame is the outcome of a failure to trust. Trust is giving our soul to another with the hope that we will not be harmfully used. Such trust invests in another the power to determine whether or not we are acceptable and desirable. When trust, defined as an empowering of another to determine our desirablity and worth,is absent, shame is usually not experienced, even with our exposure of our dignity or depravity"<p>"For example: I likely wouldn't feel shame when I am caught performing a vulgar act, UNLESS I cared about your opinion of me. If I wanted to offend you then to be caught doing something vulgar would delight me. Shame is experienced before the one I've entitled to or given the right to judge me. Ultimately, that is the prerogative of God alone. To give that privledge - in essence, the opportunity to bestow or retract life - to anyone other than God is idolatry. This concept helps clarify further the difference between legitimate and illegitimate shame." <p>"Idolatry is placing our longings for what only God can provide in the hands of a creature instead of the Creator. When I live for my work, or my wife, then I have made them my false god. When I am failed (and I can be sure a false god will be impotent at the point of my greatest need)then I will shame of failure of misplaced trust."<p>
Does he not have a clue? Or is he faking it? Or, is it he simply feels by virtue of being Divorced that he is absolved of all wrong doing.<p>TR-From this description..he does not care what you or the others think about him or his actions..
He does not place value upon what you think about him..so he shows no shame..or remorse..<p>I felt shame before God..because I cared what God thinks about me..and I felt shame and remorse towards my ex. when he showed it didn't matter that I was sorry for my actions..and he was continually judging me and condemning me I came to a point that what he thinks doesn't matter to me as much as what God thinks about me..and God forgave me..so therefore, I don't need to carry that burden of guilt and shame any longer..I had to believe God over my ex..my ex said I was worthless and that he hated me, God says yes, your a sinner, you made a mistake, but I still love you..<p>
Does anyone else's ex behave similarly??? <p>My ex and I have never attended social events together..we never went to functions w/ friends..
when the few friends I have came over and he was home..he wouldn't even stay in the house, and when I invited his friends over he would makeup reasons to cancel..when we went to my family functions..he would go to another room or outside and if we were in the backyard he would go to the front yard or back in the house..if we went to his family functions he'd go off with his brother and be gone for hours..and when they came back they would stay outside drinking..come in to eat and go back out again..and I would be left to socialize with the rest of his family alone...just as I was at my family functions..Even school functions he didn't go too..about the only thing he's been involved with in the past year was ours sons cub scouts..and I was told that was for the two of them..so I stayed away from those activities until ex went back out of town to work and I had to take him to the meetings and such..our yd is in softball, I take her to the practices every week, and every other weekend he takes her to the games when they are with him..and although I love to watch her play..I take that time for me..and allow him to have that time with the kids..and then he doesn't go to the games the weeks she is home w/ me..so we don't have that problem...<p>Maybe I'm just gaging what he does against my morals and ethics, because if I had done what he has done, I certainly would not intentionally be where people I knew didn't like me, or disapproved of me or my behavior. <p>Personally, if I knew the people didn't like me
for whatever reason..I wouldn't go there to begin with..it sounds like he is trying to rub these things in your face..and I don't think that is right..what he's doing is totally disrespectful to you..I'm just curious, if he wasn't invited to the events in question..did the host or hostess ask him to leave?? If not, that was their error in judgement..to show respect to your feelings..<p>I personally believe that if my ex has the kids with him..then thats his time w/ the kids..and he needs that..just as much as I need that break away, so if they have activities going on the weekends they are with him then I let him do those things w/ them..without me there..so that they can build that relationship..it's a matter of treating the another person with respect..<p>I really am sorry that your ex shows such little regard to your feelings..and again in answer to your question..no not all WS's are like yours..
maybe one day it won't bother you so much and he will stop doing it to get to you..

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Go and Sin no more<hr></blockquote><p>I don't think continuing a relationship built upon lies and deceit qualifies as "sinning no more."