Frank,<p>Good job! Well, it's a waiting game really. Just sit tight, lay off any love busting, don't get drawn into her accusations and I believe that she will soon figure these out. <p>I would have to say kudos to your friends. I'm glad they stood up to her and put their foot down. I can imagine not being able to say "you dug your own hole - it's up to you if you want help out". So, kudos to you also. Don't get drawn into it. I again learned the hard way in opening my mouth at the wrong time and it advanced from there.<p>Remember that her actions and comments are right out of the WS dictionary!!!!!! It's now just the waiting game and you continuing to Plan A/B. Don't judge -which is easier said than done. Remember again that when she does seem to come around, be patient and don't jump right away. This doesn't happen in just one day, it will occur over time and a little bit at that. Be the best father and husband you can be right now. You are still competing. <p>Well, again God Bless. Let me know.

Ouch! Frank, reading your posts makes me feel a little better, I aint the only one and someone always has it a little worse than you. But I cant help but ask have you two read the books? "Love Busters" and "His Needs Her Needs" by Dr Harley go into "the love bank" ect and your recuring comment that she is in love with this bozo says you may be missing a trick. The "in love" thing just means that he filled a need that you didnt, something that can be changed! My wife moved out first of year and is planning to move back June 1. The only thing that put a crowbar into the thing that I can tell is when I have gotten her to read. She hates reading but I was being such a good sport about everything that when I ask for something she realy has a hard time telling me no. Love Busters she only read 17 pages of before she decided that after 24 years of being married to "the wrong man" maybe things could work after all. Powerfull stuff and the man has been putting marriages back together for decades now.
May God be with you both.

DS & WI -- Thanks for the encouraging words (again) <p>I've read HNHN (we had it in the house already but I never read it until AFTER she left!!) I'm not sure if she has read it though...<p>I did give her the Emotional Needs & Personal History Questionnares yesterday and she was very positive about filling them out (but again that was yesterday) [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I will bring up the questionnares in the next couple of days (maybe next week) but only when the time and situation are right.<p>Depending upon her reaction to the questionnares, I will ask her to read HNHN -- I know it can't hurt but again I have to wait until the time is right.<p>Besides when I do get the questionnares back I will have know what her emotional needs are and begin to try to fulfill them. Plus I will fill out the same questionnares this weekend and give them to her (again when the time is ripe)<p>Also where might I find this WS dictionary?? I figure knowledge is power so I'm reading and digesting everything on the subject I can get my hands on!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks again, God Bless, and hope to hear from you all again soon <p>Also the thanks and encouragement are heartfelt and appreciated <p>Frank1000<p> [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Hey Frank,<p>Good. Remember again not too push. Let her come back to you without letting go too much. I am going to include some great posts from the MB site. Don't read them all at once. See if there may be something there that can help or soothe. There are great stories out there. Keep up the good work and let me know.<p>Here is a great success story:http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=31&t=006440<p>Here is a number of links:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=000554<p>Here is a good one on the explanation on the WS dictionary. There are many others:http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=009801<p>Here is a good one on Plan A and Plan B:http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=30&t=000176<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=28&t=004474<p>Well, again, I hope these may help. Let me know.

Frank, I found the following very useful back when I was still trying to save my marriage. Good Luck,
Dave
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow her around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse
19. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important,realize what she will be missing
21. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
23. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
25. Never lose your cool
26. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
27. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger)
28. Be patient
29. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you
30. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out
31. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
32. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
33. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write
35. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
36. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
37. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared
39. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel
40. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

I didn't see much of the WS this weekend but when I did, it was very telling...<p>I spent all day Friday with the kids (they had school off) so I took them to a local museum (with a classmate of theirs) and had a great time!! Lots of dinosaur displays and such (first time I had been there) and we had a lot of fun.<p>I left the kids with WS on Sat since I went out of town to play rugby and it was very theraputic!! (She wished me luck and said score some trys!!)<p>I was selected to play in a position I normally don't (inside center if you were wondering -- I'm normally a forward). Well I thought I would get lots of ball and do a lot of running with the ball and maybe score a try or two. But my opposite was someone who I've had a lot of history with (very adversarial realtionship!!)<p>Well, I shut him down all game and got the better of him too. I didn't get the ball much (way things turned out) but game, for me, was just one long tackling drill where I kept tackling him and hit him (no not punching just hit him w/my shoulder in the tackles) and won more ball then I lost. I knew I took him out of his game because all game long he kept punching me at the bottom of the pile but I just took it and smiled at him and kept knocking the crap out of him. Needless to say we won and we kept them out of the tryzone (end zone) and only gave up 6 points (two penalties). Satisfying to say the least and what fun!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I had scheduled a babysitter for Sat nite so WS took them over and I had an evening out for myself.<p>Sunday I picked up the kids and got home around 12:15 in the afternoon and WS was at the house. She had made the beds, picked up the house, started my laundry, put away the dishes (out of the dishwasher) AND she was mowing the front lawn!! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I didn't expect her to be there but I tried to talk to her but she said (in a rather harsh manner) "Give me 20 minutes to finish here and then we'll talk"<p>I left her to the front lawn and when we talked it was just about some custody issues (again, no one has filed). We talked for about 5 minutes and she smoked two cigs (she was never a smoker before all this -- maybe an occasional cig every now and then but now she seems to picked up the habit). I told her I appreciated what she did around the house and she said that she wanted the house orderly for when we pack up and move out. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>She left and I spent the rest of the day looking at homes and going to D soccer game. WS was there and I tried to converse with her but it really didn't go anywhere -- all she did was answer using monosyllable words. Not very encouraging but I was dressed nice all day (from when I went to church in the morning) and tried to be pleasant. I did ask her if she was still angry at me from Thursday. She didn't remember the issue and when I reminded her she said no (I think she may have gotten over it and had a change of heart but I guess I will find out after see visits our friends.)<p>I also asked if she was going to fill out the questionares. She said she didn't have time this weekend but she would. I told her thanks for doing it and it would help me know what emotional needs she has (and wants to be fulfilled). WS replied that "You know we've already talked about some of this already" (implying it won't do any good because she won't let me satisfy her needs)
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>After I got home though, I had to cry because all attempts to generate conversation were rebuffed and I was feeling hopeless (again). I called my mother-in-law and she helped me (again) because she had talked to WS Saturday and WS had only good and positive things to say about me. WS also told her that she was happy for me that I got to play rugby and get some time for myself and have a release. <p>Plus she told her mom that she had planned on breaking off the relationship with OM last week but OM told her that he hadn't seen anybody in the past week or two so WS didn't break it off [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I was much better by the end of the talk but I still hurt because WS didn't break things off but I was also encouraged because she was thinking about it.<p>Today (Monday) we went the consulor. WS got there late and receptionist didn't let her come in until almost half the session was over. During that time I recounted the house cleaning episode with the consulor. When WS came in, consulor brought up the subject of the house cleaning and WS tried to put it off as "I just didn't want the house a mess before we have to pack" (paraphrasing here). When pressed about the lawn she said she didn't want the kids playing in knee high grass (which it is/was but our lawn mover is broken and I haven't had the time to take it in nor borrow a neighbors plus we've had a good amount of rain so things just haven't worked out for me). The consulor told WS that she thought is was strange for WS to do all that work around the house when WS admitted that she hates being in that house and WS said she did the house stuff to help me but the lawn was for the kids (but if that was true, I figure WS would have cut the backyard (not frontyard) because that's where we have a swing set) [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

Anyway, the rest of the session went well and after WS left, I talked to the consulor and asked if things were looking better. Consulor replied that WS seems to be very confused right now and that I'm seem to be doing the right things (running, taking care of the kids & house, trying to be charming around WS, etc) and that I should continue, especially the things I enjoy (like playing with the kids and doing the rugby thing) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Again the rollercoaster analogy is right on and things are looking good today because of these (somewhat?) positive signs. But I still dread the plunge (which I know will be coming -- just don't know when. I hope I'll see it coming and be ready for it!)<p>Take care, God bless and hope to hear from you again soon<p>Frank1000

I'm still doing the Plan A thing but I've got a couple of questions.<p>1. How do I generate meaningful conversation with WS when lately she seems aloof and won't respond with much more than monosyllable words?<p>2. Any ideas on topics or "icebreakers" to generate conversation without LBing?<p>One final note -- I did buy Surviving An Affair and read it in one night (last Thursday) and it was very useful. I gave WS the Emotional & Personal History Questionnares but WS has not filled them out yet (but initially WS said she would but who knows). Should I try to get her to read His Needs, Her Needs and/or SAA? (I know I should wait for the right moment but was just asking...<p>Anyway right now I am having a hard time -- I guess it's anxiety attacks but I've been having crying spells since Friday even though I felt I had made a lot of progress (before Friday I hadn't cry for 4 or 5 days)<p>Any suggestions, ideas or words of encouragement would be greatly appreciated.<p>I am still trying to better myself but it is difficult because she doesn't seem to notice (or at least she won't acknowledge it to me -- WS has mentioned the changes she has seen to her mother and her good friends though)<p>Take care, God Bless<p>Frank1000

Hey Frank,<p>This sounds great!!! You mentioned that you feel like the anxiety attacks are taking over and are crying alot. Have you discussed the possibility of medication while you are going through this?<p>You are so right about the roller coaster. For me it has been now 1 1/2 years and it is still a roller coaster but now it is more of 2-3 weeks up and 1-2 days down. It does get so much better. The big thing now is to not push. She does notice your changes. Remember that Plan A is for yourself first and with the payoff being your spouse. Don't bring up all the time - "see what I did?" "see my changes?". It comes across as your changes are not for real. Be happy with your changes and be patient for her to notice. Again, time and patience are the key. You can do it!<p>Have you thought about counseling with the Harley's? Is your counselor up to date with these concepts? He/she sounds very encouraging. <p>As far as conversation, I had to go to writing notes down on an index card. Maybe something the kids did or where going to be doing. What did you used to talk about? Anything in the paper or on tv - maybe something funny? When you first dated? How things are going with her (remember not to push)? No future talk. <p>As far as your work so far - great job. Don't look to her to compliment you right now - the key is though that she "does" notice - she tells other people! Keep working on what you are doing.

Frank,
Try not to press, certainly not on the EN questionaire. My now x filled hers out and joked about it the whole time we reviewed it with the counselor.<p>Why didn't your x take the kids the night you got a babysitter ? That seems weird to me, but my spouse did the same stuff. One time I got babysitter while I went out of town on business and myx got off work early and came and got the kids.

Worth It - I'm already taking medications (40 mg Paxil daily for about 4 weeks now)<p>Trust me, I haven't been talking to WS about the changes I'm undertaking, I'm just going to continue to implement them. Again, I must remember that Plan A is to focus on me...<p>I believe our consulor knows about the Harley's concepts but I can't afford the sessions with them (besides I know WS wouldn't attend -- I asked her today how she thought our sessions were going and she just shrugged her shoulders and said "Okay")<p>I think that these attacks are because:<p>1. I truly haven't let her go<p>2. I miss her<p>3. It may be that she really is finished with our M (our close friends are saying this and this has been her consistent message to me) [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But I have also been told to just play hard to get and to move on (like it says for Plan A) so I am attempting to do so<p>It's just that I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place (love WS still and can't let go but trying to let go without letting go too much -- Man that sounds crazy but that's how I feel)
[img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>RWD - The babysitter thing was just that it was my weekend to have the kids and I had already asked a friend to watch them Sat nite -- WS could have kept them but wasn't obligated and I wasn't bothered by it since she didn't have to watch them for me Sat while I went off to play some rugger...<p>Take care and God Bless<p>Frank1000

Hi Frank, you are doing great, most of your WS actions/reactions are right out of the text book.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> . How do I generate meaningful conversation with WS when lately she seems aloof and won't respond with much more than monosyllable words?<p> 2. Any ideas on topics or "icebreakers" to generate conversation without LBing? <hr></blockquote><p>Frank, don't be the one to try to generate the conversation, let her come back to you at her pace. I know this is very hard, but don't push.
Back off and see what happens, many times she will come back. She will see your improvements on her own.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am still trying to better myself but it is difficult because she doesn't seem to notice (or at least she won't acknowledge it to me -- WS has mentioned the changes she has seen to her mother and her good friends though)<hr></blockquote><p>Oh, she notices but you are going to be the absolute last one that she is going to let know. She is very confused right now, which can work to your advantage, Keep making the improvements but don't say anything about them, just keep doing it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> One final note -- I did buy Surviving An Affair and read it in one night (last Thursday) and it was very useful. I
gave WS the Emotional & Personal History Questionnares but WS has not filled them out yet (but initially WS said
she would but who knows). Should I try to get her to read His Needs, Her Needs and/or SAA? (I know I should
wait for the right moment but was just asking...<hr></blockquote>
My suggestion in not at this point in time, also don't push for the survey either. If she was to fill it out my bet is that you are going to get the most negative reply in every catagory, it will not be an honest assessment, she is hurting and confused now, save this for later, let her figure things out on her own, again don't push, just keep working on yourself and no LBs. She will probably view the surveys and books as pushing and LBs.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Anyway right now I am having a hard time -- I guess it's anxiety attacks but I've been having crying spells since
Friday even though I felt I had made a lot of progress (before Friday I hadn't cry for 4 or 5 days) <hr></blockquote>
You medication should help with this but it is normal to have these, so expect rough days, expect to cry, just don't do it in front of her. Try not to fight your pain and sadness, just go with it or try to "float" with it, it will pass and it will get better. It is a long road but it will get better one way or the other. The more you can back off and not pressure her, the more you can improve on yourself, the greater your chances are of getting her back.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> 1. I truly haven't let her go<p> 2. I miss her<p> 3. It may be that she really is finished with our M (our close friends are saying this and this has been her
consistent message to me) <p> But I have also been told to just play hard to get and to move on (like it says for Plan A) so I am attempting to do
so It's just that I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place (love WS still and can't let go but trying to let go
without letting go too much -- Man that sounds crazy but that's how I feel) <hr></blockquote>
You will miss her for a long time to come, this is normal. You don't need to let her go so soon, you just need to act like it in front of her. You will know when it it time to let her go. Don't believe anything you hear from her, she is confused and doesn't know what she wants so just let these words bounce off for now.<p>You are on the right path, just try to back off.
My stbxw did all of this, this story is so familiar. If I could of backed off more I would of had a much better chance of getting her back. Funny thing is that recently I have finally let her go, and no sooner did I do this, she is starting to come around a little bit. I know it is very difficult but if you can do a good job in backing off, your chances of sucess are greatly improved. My stbxw has told me that if I could of just given her more space so may of figured this all out on her own.
Take care,
Dave

Davepr <p>Thanks for the heartfelt advice and encouragement because it's hard to know whether I'm doing the right thing (especially without any positive feedback) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As the Old Indian Chief from "The Outlaw Josey Wales" said, "I will endeavour to persevere".<p>WS will have the kids all weekend and I won't see any of them until at least Monday evening so I have already made plans to go out Friday evening with some (female) friends who plan on bringing some of their friends out too [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm not looking for trouble but I know it will be a good ego boost to be out with some ladies and I'm sure word will get back to WS [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks again and God Bless
Frank1000

Hi Frank,
Keep up the good work..... you are doing well..<p>I know the weekends without the kids are tough, I know I miss mine so much when it is her weekend.<p>Going out with your female friends can be an ego boost and my help you but be careful. Your WS can view this a couple of diffent ways if it gets back to her. She could be jealous and it could serve to help her see what she is missing OR she can view it negatively and drive her further away from you, so be very careful in this situation. The Harley's recommend NO female contact while you are in Plan A or Plan B. Jen Harley told me that she is the only female that I am allowed to talk with, you are in a very vulnerable state right now so be very careful in this area.
Take care,
Dave

Hello Frank,<p>The title of your post caught my eye this morning, and I came here and read the whole thing! I was going to post after every one of your posts, but then I saw that you had been given good advice and I didn't need to!! <p>You HAVE been given very good advice, especially by Dave, I hope you listen carefully to him.<p>I have been "at this" for almost a year now....not really long enough to consider myself an "expert" and certainly not a success yet but I have learned a few things along the way. I have learned, for instance, that the pain DOES GET EASIER to handle with time. It took me about 4 months to totally sleep well at night (and eat again!), as well as NOT have crying jags for no reason. It's like you have to go through ALL 5 STAGES OF GRIEF before you get leveled out somewhat. Maybe those are in Notable Posts?<p>Next point, you have been given very good advice about NOT being worried about starting/keeping conversations going w/WW. I have taken on an "air" of "Oh, well, whatever...." with my WH. If he doesn't want to talk to ME, why waste my time!??!?! HE has to come to the realization that HE screwed up HIS LIFE, and I didn't go along for the ride. That's the way I'm looking at it. Where he takes it from here is HIS decision....as you can see by reading my sig line that my H moved out immediately upon D-Day (although not really a formal D-Day), just that Dv papers were in the mailbox, and HE PACKED UP, MOVED ACROSS THE STATE AND IN W/OW THAT VERY DAY. I didn't even KNOW THERE WAS OW until about a week later, but I knew something was up. NO ONE packs and moves out in one day, while acting like everything was OK the day before!!! He is still so sure Dv is what he wants, even to today....and I can't change that, until he realizes it's not the answer he's seeking. Running from ME won't fix anything. It's HIMSELF he's running from. He may have to get the dang paper IN HIS HAND before he'll realize that. Having said that, however, I want you to realize that 11½ months LATER, he still doesn't have his divorce!! Yes, it may be granted soon, BUT, it hasn't yet! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Time is my ally. Time and OW's impatience. Others, wiser than I have told me those two things together help to "end things" in these A's. <p>Another thing: You mentioned wanting your WW to fill out ENQ so that you can "begin" meeting her EN's. Sorry, I don't like hearing guys say this!!! YOU ARE M!!! You better KNOW what some of her EN's are!! You just better!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] While it may be true that you weren't meeting very many of them (I think we were all in that boat!), you must know what some of them are. If you are like me, and you aren't sure, fill out the Q, YOURSELF, as though you were her. It was quite easy to do, and I think I'm pretty close to right on most of his EN's.<p>Final Point (My posts are always too long): I notice that you seem to be a "believer." If so, I want to give you a link to another great site. Especially if you plan to STAND for the restoration of your M. I am believing God is going to restore my M, but no one can make that decision for another. There have been some lively discussions about it on these boards, though!<p>http://rejoiceministries.org/index.html<p>I wish you well in your "journey." I am learning, finally, that this IS a journey. It is one we all must take alone. Regardless of what the final outcome of our M's, God's plan is to draw us closer to Him, to trust Him more with our lives, and live in His Peace forever through all of this. <p>May God Richly Bless You,

Lupolady -- Thanks for the encouragement!<p>I know what some of her ENs are but I'd like a better idea of her main ENs but I will fill out the EN Questionnare on my own (answering as hopefully she would) I don't know why I didn't think of that?!?<p>
I agree that it seems to be a "waiting game" (although it's really NOT a game) but I tend to be a man of action the waiting is difficult but I guess God wants me to learn the true meaning of patience. He also wants me to learn trust -- trust in Him because (I may have stated it elsewhere in my posts) that everything I've tried has failed so I may as well trust in Him and allow His plan to evolve.<p>I have had a great last two days and WS has noticed my changes (mentioned again today that I look good -- I thanked her but didn't go overboard) but I have to let her move at her own pace.<p>Take care, God Bless, say a prayer for my family (kids, WS & me) and hope to hear from you again soon.<p>Frank1000<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I had a good weekend, WS had the kids and went out of town to our friends for their D b-day party.<p>So I was childless all weekend and got a break. I went out Friday nite and had a good time.<p>Saturday I cleaned house and went for a good 3 mile run and then went out late afternoon with some buddies of mine -- nothing out of the ordinary. Afterwards, I went home and just watched tv Sat nite.<p>Sunday I went to Mass and then cut the lawn and then looked at houses with the realtor in the afternoon. <p>Anyway a nice weekend and I enjoyed myself and pampered myself (took nice hot baths and even gave myself a facial!) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Went to the counsoling session this morning and what a mess!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WS came in and said she and friends husband had an arguement right before she left Sunday nite -- the van was packed and the kids loaded and ready for the 5 hr drive back home. She blamed me bacause again I've manipulated people by telling them about the affair and our situation. <p>Well, I defended myself and counsoler said that:<p>1. It's normal for the BS to talk to people (and I did it without malice)<p>2. It's not my fault for the way friends husband handled it. <p>Apparently WS is bothered by the fact that no one is supporting her and her decision and that she's tired of people judging what happened and her character. I guess she feels this is my fault because I have told our friends. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It is true that none of her friends have supported her in this -- she is the only one who feels this way, but WS tends to be stubborn when told she can't do something (human nature I think). Plus she has said nothing but positives about me to our friends and her mom. That's why I think she is confused and she needs time to figure out what she wants.<p>WS feels that even if OM doesn't work out, she doesn't want to be with me.<p>Well WS is adament that she will file for divorce this week and that she wants to move away to persue the relationship with OM. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WS also said that she wants joint custody and that if push comes to shove, she will keep the kids for a year and then I can keep then a year.<p>I will not allow this -- she can move to another state but I will fight to keep the kids here; if she wants to move back, then I would give her joint custody.<p>WS wants the divorce so she can persue relationship with OM without hearing about it from our friends (you're still married and we will not help you see OM).<p>I don't know what to do anymore other than keep working on myself and begin letting go of her.<p>She has noticed the changes and admitted as such today. WS still seems confused but is set on being with OM (or at least trying to)<p>WS said she doesn't hate me but that I need to move on with my life. She hopes we can still be friends but if I am divorced I really don't think I can be her friend any more -- I will be civil dealing with her but I don't think I could be her friend.<p>I'm trying to move on but this is such a major hurt because I thought I might be making some progress with WS but what happened today basically just dashed all my hope. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am still improving myself and I like the changes i've made so far and I hope I don't backslide because I am feeling a large amount of despair right now.<p>Please pray for me and my family<p>Frank1000

Frank,
continue to give her time and space... she is very confused and will speak in absolute negatives about your relationship, try not to believe anything she says at this point in time. Time and space are the two keys, she needs to figure this out on her own. Keep working on yourself, get a good lawyer to protect yourself and the kids, not sure what the law is in Atlanta but I know that my stbxw cannot leave this state now. No judge is going to give joint custody where one spouse get the kids for a year at a time, that is not in the best interest of the children.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> WS came in and said she and friends husband had an arguement right before she left Sunday nite -- the van was
packed and the kids loaded and ready for the 5 hr drive back home. She blamed me bacause again I've
manipulated people by telling them about the affair and our situation. <p> Well, I defended myself and counsoler said that:<p> 1. It's normal for the BS to talk to people (and I did it without malice)<p> 2. It's not my fault for the way friends husband handled it. <hr></blockquote><p>Frank, you do not need to defend yourself, no matter what you do you are going to get the blame from her, just accept it. You will not do any right in her eyes at this point, she needs to justify her actions, you will be the designated "assxole" regardless of what you do. Try not to give her any reasons, that will all be twisted into negatives.
Take care, i am praying for you,
Dave

Dave<p>Thanks again for the kind words and encouragement.<p>I don't give her anything to get upset about (learned the hard way) but I've also been walking on eggshells around her (so as not to set her off). Also, I have been too wrapped in analyzing my actions (or possible actions) so I won't do anything to make her angry nor something that would keep her from wanting to come back -- BUT I am tired of it and I am not going to take her into consideration when I make a decision; if WS doesn't like something I do/don't do then too bad for her!!<p>I'm tired of living in fear of making her angry --so again I'm going to keep working on myself and begin letting her go.<p>I also realize (this was before today) that in her eyes, I'm the reason her life is so miserable and that I'm the designated a-hole (comes with the territory). Lately, when she has said mean things I either let it slide or raise the b.s. flag. <p>Another interesting observation by the counsolor was that WS one second doesn't care about me or what I do but the next second (literally) is concerned about my well being or with whom I going out with/doing things with. Counsolor asked what's that all about. WS replied that she's not really sure. (I think that she loves me and OM but is afraid to come back because if we fail then we will have reopened wounds that are just starting to heal now). A sure sign she is confused (at least in my book).<p>But WS says she still cares for me and wants us to remain friends (I hope we can go to parties later and I will enjoy who you are with and you can do the same) What a bunch of drivel!! <p>I am almost to the point where I don't care that she will be with OM because he is trash and WS is hanging with trash so I guess she is trash and I just need to let the trash be taken away.<p>I know it sounds harsh but it's helping me to let her go. The hard part is that I am just beginning to let her go and I still love her but I'm not sure why I would want her back after she hurt me with the affair and her meanness of late.<p>I guess I'm as confused as her...<p>You know I love the rollercoaster but I don't think I will miss them too much after all this is said and done.<p>It is nice to vent here sometimes because I know I have support and good advice (if I want to follow it). I know it has helped me make progress in my trials and I know I will become stronger as a result of them.<p>Thanks again, take care and God bless.<p>Frank1000<p>
That which does not kill us makes us strong.<p>-- Fredrick Nietzsche

Frank, you WS sounds just like mine, there is so much in common with the WS actions.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I'm tired of living in fear of making her angry --so again I'm going to keep working on myself and begin letting her go. <hr></blockquote>
Sometimes you have to let go in order to get them back!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I also realize (this was before today) that in her eyes, I'm the reason her life is so miserable and that I'm the designated a-hole (comes with the territory).
Lately, when she has said mean things I either let it slide or raise the b.s. flag. <hr></blockquote> Of course, who else is she going to blame, herself? You are the easy target, if she blames herself then she has to look inside at her issues, she is not ready to deal with that yet.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Another interesting observation by the counsolor was that WS one second doesn't care about me or what I do but the next second (literally) is concerned
about my well being or with whom I going out with/doing things with. Counsolor asked what's that all about. WS replied that she's not really sure. (I think that
she loves me and OM but is afraid to come back because if we fail then we will have reopened wounds that are just starting to heal now). A sure sign she is
confused (at least in my book).<p> But WS says she still cares for me and wants us to remain friends (I hope we can go to parties later and I will enjoy who you are with and you can do the
same) What a bunch of drivel!! <hr></blockquote> Yes, a sure sign of confusion at the least,, I spoke to my IC about ths today, she gave me a book, the title is "Stop Walking on Eggshells" I have just skimmed it and it looks very good for out situation.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am almost to the point where I don't care that she will be with OM because he is trash and WS is hanging with trash so I guess she is trash and I just need
to let the trash be taken away.<p> I know it sounds harsh but it's helping me to let her go. The hard part is that I am just beginning to let her go and I still love her but I'm not sure why I would
want her back after she hurt me with the affair and her meanness of late. <hr></blockquote> Here is how a view this one..
she is very confused and probably feels very bad about herself (although she may not show this to you), the OM just happened to be in the right place at the right time, it is not about him, it is all about her. Sooner or later she will she OM for what he is, she can't see this until she hits rock bottom. He is appealing because he matches how she is feeling internally, when she hits bottom and start to become healthier (fog lifts) she will see OM for the trash he is. If you want to know trash I could go on and on about my stbxw OM.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I guess I'm as confused as her...<p> You know I love the rollercoaster but I don't think I will miss them too much after all this is said and done.<p> It is nice to vent here sometimes because I know I have support and good advice (if I want to follow it). I know it has helped me make progress in my trials
and I know I will become stronger as a result of them.
<hr></blockquote> I am calling this the BS Fog, I am in it to. I can't believe I tolerate her actions so I must be in the fog to put up with this and still love her. Reality is that love is very stong and can withstand alot.<p>Hang in there, give it time, I know that is hard to do.
Take care,
Dave

Yesterday was hard because I kept thinking about WS saying she will file this week. I hardly slept all nite and feel like crap this morning -- I guess the 4 hours sleep every nite for 8+ weeks is starting to catch up with me. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Even though it was a difficult day yesterday, I didn't let it bother me too much and I did my regular routine (picked up the kids after work, made dinner, played with them, ran baths for them, put them to bed, etc). That's something I keep hanging my hat on -- sticking to my routine (work, running, taking care of kids & house & animals, etc) in spite of the turmoil swirling around me.<p>I talked with a friend last evening and my MIL this morning and both reiterated that I'm a good man and not at fault here -- It's all about my WS and her perception of the world. The talks helped bring my spirit up and I am feeling more positive today, not about my M but about myself. <p>MIL also said WS was probably making an idle threat (about filing) but I guess I will find out later this week and will cross that bridge when I come to it. <p>I'm wondering if I should just switch to Plan B because WS still is in contact with OM and I know WS has noticed changes (from Plan A) but I've only been doing Plan A for 2-3 weeks now.<p>I'm just trying to keep a PMA but I have a lot of doubt -- I guess I just need to focus more on myself (and the kids) and not concern myself about my WS nor my M. It might make things a little easier.<p>Take care and God Bless<p>Frank1000<p>
He who sheds his blood with me today shall be my brother.<p> -- From Richard III by William Shakespeare<p>(i guess i feel like everyone who has come to this board has shed blood, sweat, & tears and i guess we all have a certain type of brotherhood amoungst us because of that)