Sorry TS, I still disagree with you. How can you compare Europe to the US where the culture and philosophy of marriage is different. Many other first world countries don't look at adultery the same way we do here in the US; therefore, having mistress would not be grounds to divorce. <p> People get married for many reasons and stay together for lots of reasons too...and none of it usually has to do with love. <p>I don't think men are pigs and women want to escape...but hey, I used to do divorce counseling. I base my theory on the people who were going through divorce...not some statistical information I read in a book.

Happymac,<p>"How can you compare Europe to the US where the culture and philosophy of marriage is different."<p>Duh...marriage doesn't exist in a vacuum. If their divorce rate is lower than it is here, then they are obviously doing something different than we are. If lowering the divorce rate is a goal of ours (as a culture), then maybe we should take notes from other cultures where the divorce rate is lower. Other cultures may be able to teach us a few things. Besides, all that experience of yours obviously didn't help your marriage. Wouldn't kill you to take a different perspective on marriage/divorce that is offered from other cultures. It is pretty simplistic to believe that the only reason why marriages stay together in other countries is because everyone is ok with infidelity. I kind of look at the whole package myself...and I believe that the lifestyle that many people in other "first world" countries have embraced is much more conducive to maintaining family life than it is here. Something we could afford to emulate. <p>GDP,
I'm ok with people living together without being married--even though I wouldn't do it myself. IMO, they are more honest than people who get married and are ok with divorce...and certainly more so than those who marry and divorce over and over again. At least people who are just living together aren't making promises they don't have any intention of keeping. I know *I* won't be making that promise again--that's for sure.

GDP,<p>one more thing...I completely agree with you about the way the legal system is set up to handle separations/divorces. I'm sorry that happened to you.

Must say that I pretty much agree with TS. Except that the most recent divorce rate for 1st marriages is around 46-47%, but I'll live with the rounding.<p>You want to know a main reason, look at the internet and the ability to meet new people. The issue comes back to commitment and I also agree with GDP, the courts make divorce easy. No fault divorce may have kept some lawyers out of the fray,but they are making it up with volume now.<p>Marriage is all about commitment to the concept and to the spouse. I do think that other countries have something to offer. Sadly, even people from countries with strong family traditions, seem to fall pray to the situation once they get here. <p>Many opportunities to meet new people puts an added strain on the commitment and focus of a marriage.<p>JL

TS...you are right, all my experience didn't help me and my marriage at all. I have an aversion to physical and emotional abuse. Call me silly, but after 16 years of this, I filed for divorce. I believe in marriage, not servitude. I don't know why you carry such a big chip on your shoulder, ready to pounce on all who don't agree with you. You are quick to judge before you know the circumstances...not all people can be put into neat little catagories. I don't agree with you, so you come back by insinuating that I must somehow have the wrong philosophy on marriage...I wasn't married to myself...there was another individual who had something to do with why I'm divorced. You can't make someone love you or act a certain way if they don't want to. I am aware that we live in a throw away society; but sometimes divorce is the right thing to do; especially when staying in the marriage is hazerdous to one's health. I don't see the validity of comparing Sweden's divorce rate to the US...there are way too many variables...but again, if you somehow think that we should adopt Sweden's philosphy, fine. I don't have to though because you say so. Maybe we should bring back bigomy...that would solve the infidlity issue. I have read your philosophies on dating and sex and marriage...I don't agree, but hey, if it works for you, wonderful...I do resent your superior attitude that I somehow am not as smart as you because though I did divorce counseling, I wound up divorced...that in itself should tell you how bad my marriage was. I knew up front what was in store for me...but life was so bad, I knew my only choice was to tolerate it, have my children learn that it was okay to berate and be disrespectful to women or leave and make a life on my own...a life that didn't involve abuse. I chose to save myself and kids.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by opinions:
[QB]PLEASE! I NEED YOUR OPINION.
THANKS....
If you have tried plan a and plan b and time has caused more damage then good you know the answer. My divorce was final this past Monday. (happy mother's day to me) and it was not due to my lack of trying. My x did not respect my plan b move and refused to comply with my wishes. Well he destroyed any of the marital love I had for him. I had been seperated since November 4th, 2000. He left me and our three children out of the blue. After we signed the papers and were leaving the court house he said I got what I wanted. I just looked at him and said I am not the one who left for someone else. Plus he is still living with the OW, so what choice did I have. I can go on and on about the pain and saddness I have had to endure these past months, but it is over now. SO divorce is a horrible way to go but sometimes you have no choice but to do so.

Happymac,<p>"I base my theory on the people who were going through divorce...not some statistical information I read in a book."<p>don't dish it out if you can't take it.<p>"I do resent your superior attitude that I somehow am not as smart as you because though I did divorce counseling, I wound up divorced...that in itself should tell you how bad my marriage was."<p>The superior attitude is all yours. I offered my opinion, and your reply is that you know more about divorce since you were a counselor. good for you. I only suggest that MAYBE the paradigm you were operating under at the time could have been adjusted--but oh well.<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: TheStudent ]</p>