Thanks everyone.... I don't plan to change my course of action, I will stick with Plan B and not get my hopes up.<p>But... I do feel things are starting to change (starting only), I know she still has alot of anger, that is for sure... but I do feel that she is starting to think more clearly, I know all this could change in a heartbeat but she is atleast considering things.. this is alot different from her normal statements of I want a divorce, I will never come back, blah, blah, blah.. The e-mail is just one thing, I can see it in multiple areas.. until the OM is gone out of the picture, I will continue my life as I am doing, only after the OM is long gone will I consider changing my course of action... I have been left 3 times for this guy, I don't want a 4th. But, I think she is starting to see him for what he is.<p>Latest e-mail from WS:
I am going to schedule an appointment w/Fr. Bob for either confession or just advise sometime soon, I am scared of this as you can imagine, simply because I don't know how to talk to someone w/ that power and I am completely uncomfortable faced w/ a situation like this. I don't know what else you can do and I am sorry for that. Please know that I am working hard at reading and understanding the reasons why things happen, and yes I am just as guilty and for that I am sorry, I am still angry and that is really a tough issue for me and that you need to realize, when we don't have confrontations it is easier for me to get ahead, please understand this, sometimes I wish you had just let me have that space and time months ago and things did not get so ugly. For that I am sorry, I realize that I made things just as miserable for you as you did for me. I am very sorry for all the pain we have caused each other, but again it is part of the understanding and figuring it all out process. Please understand that this is not easy for me and I know I have choices and I know what you want my choice to be, but please know it is not easy for me and I am just taking each day at a time right now. Not having Pat is in a sense good but bad too. I am glad I don't have someone to talk about it w/ esp someone who was doing what she was, but I do miss her friendship for me and esp for Emily, luckily she has Josh to play with and they get along really well ESP since they are w/ each other a lot. They love to go to the pool and park together and paint and etc. etc. Emily is very loving to me, which really helps me get through my days. Thanks for listening I have to go get peanut at school, if you want to go to her year end picnic you can, or if not I can go. Either way, I will let you know when it is. I think in two weeks, that is all she has left of this school year.

davepr,<p>Here is what I see. I see it as positive that she is considering going to see the priest. Unfortunatley, many WS's TALK about getting couselling and few actually do it or maybe go once or twice and give it up. <p>To me, her email says that she knows she has screwed up, but is sorta looking for an "out" for having to accept the consequences or blame for her choice to have an affair.<p>In the final analysis, as the others have pointed out to you - she has to step up to the plate and work for your marriage. <p>You have been through 3 failed reconciliation attempts. That does say that up until now, your W has not fully commited to doing what it takes to recover. In other words, her attempts at reconciliation have likely been feeble attempts. My advice to you is to make HER PROVE something to YOU. Make her chase you or at least make the first move TOWARD you. Don't allow yourself to get further hurt by putting stock ands faith in inuendos and half-hearted attempts to say "I am sorry." Likely, she IS sorry. But, not sorry enough to straighten things up. <p>I am afraid you are destined for more hurt unless you can separate your "hopes" from the reality of her "actions". I fear she is using you as an emotional crutch as she continues to live separate from you. You must eliminate yourself from this triangle. By doing a strict Plan B - quit letting her toy with your emotions - you will do yourself AND her a favor. If she is sincere, let her go to the priest, confess, come up with a plan to keep herself from sinning anymore by either divorcing you or by truly committing to your marriage. At some point, the only thing that truly matters is if the WS will just "do it". <p>There is a time to be understanding and supportive - Plan A. I think everyone owes their spouse some time to recover from a mistake. Your W has had an affair, and I think you owe it to your family to give her some time and space to sort out her feelings. But, for those in continuing affairs, then there comes a time to draw the line in the sand - Plan B. You want a woman who is commited to you, wants to be with you and wants to find the love you once had again. You don't need anything less. Please do stay the course and talk to Steve so you can do a better Plan B.<p>Take care, RMA

RMA, you are right, I have to keep my hopes down until she really proves herself to me. I did not take any of her calls yesterday, I am trying to
reinforce my boundries with her. I can't let this pattern repeat itself again, I don't want another major setback, I have just gotten to the point where I am completely off all my meds - Celexa and some anti-anxiety meds. I feel great, I now have
real emotions again, I feel like my old self I want to move foward in life, not backwards.
I am going to try to keep my hopes down, but regardless of my internal emotions, to her, see is only going to see Plan b in action.
Thanks for the advice.
Dave

Update: STBXW called me this morning (twice), told me about the movie she went to see last night (by her self, she keeps making a point about doing things by herself), the movie was about an A, the BS killed the OM in the end (gee, something I considered, just kidding [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] )
STBXW said she felt all of the same emotions that
the WS in the movie felt.. She said that she wants to work on the marriage IF she can get through some of the emotions that she has for me like anger. I thought I was the one that was suppose to be mad.<p>Anyway, it is a glimmer of hope, still trying to stick to Plan B but I am communicating a little more with her via the phone, I am not calling her though, and will not do anything with her although she asked me to take her and the family to the playoff hockey game tomorrow but I said no. I would of really loved to gone with the family but I know it is the wrong thing to do at this point in time. She said that she has not spoken with OM in a few days, well she has along ways to go to prove that she can get over OM - like about 6 months of not speaking with him would be a good start for me. As much as I want to reach out for her, I will not allow myself to get hurt again, this time she proves herself to me first.<p>Dave

Great news Davepr! <p>I’ve been thinking about you…Things have really improved since the last time I checked up on you. It sounds like you have things in hand. I think you’re wise following the same course. Plan B got you here and Plan B will keep the momentum going.<p>Keep your Chin up and Hang In There,
L&F

Thanks L&F, how are things with you?<p>The momentum is still going my way for now, WS picked s about an hour ago. She was obviously upset, she said that OM will not leave her alone, he is a jerk, and she does not know how to end it with him. I replied that you have alot of experience in this area, I am sure you will figure it out, she laughed. I asked if the kids are safe at her apartment ( the last time she left om, he stalked her), she said yes and that she was not that bad a judge of character because she married me. She found several excuses to try to keep me talking and she was joking around, I tried to keep the conversation brief and told them all good bye. I am sticking to Plan B, and just taking a wait and see attitude, I am going to let OM continue to call and pressure/LB with her while I just sit in the background and be the best father and person I can be. Time will tell how this all plays out but I am still in self protection mode.
Take care,
Dave

Hi Dave, please go to my post and read Wallace story. His story is horrible. He needs our support and guidance.<p>Take care.

Dave and friends,
Hope all is well!<p>Dave, pardon me if you have already covered this question. Since your wife has repeatedly returned and put you through false recoveries what are your boundries and conditions this time?<p>Craig

Hi Davepr and all!

Thought I would chime in, since we are all in somewhat of the same boat.

I just found your thread.

Let me know how you are doing, when you get a chance.

Wallace

Hi, my boundries have been:
1) no contact unless an emergency
2) no coming in house when exchanging the kids
3) no phone calls except an emergency or kids
4) no e-mails except the kids schedule<p>These have been working fairly well.<p>Update: I am out of town on business this week, D called to say good night last night, STBX got on the phone (breaking boundry 3) said it was over with OM. She broke it off, said she wanted a better life for herself than OM can provide. Says she is not sure if she wants to work on the marriage, she has fallen out of love with me and not sure if she can get the feelings back. Now what? Do I stay in Plan B to protect myself? Or do I switch to Plan A to help her get her feelings back for me and risk being hurt again? I think I am leaning towards Plan B. Advise is welcome. I am also going to create another post to get more feedback.<p>Thanks
Dave

Dave, you may want to stay with Plan B until you determine where she is headed. I noticed that she said that it's over with OM because he could not provide the life she wanted; sounds like she is still in her self centered mode. Just be careful. In my opinion, there is no need for you to set up another post for yourself. Many times people just don't have the time to post every day. Many people just don't read all the posts but basically stick to certain one's.<p>Take care.

Problem is, how do you know if she really means it? <p>When you have been lied to, cheated on, and taken advantage of like you have,it's hard to believe. <p>You did give her a plan B letter. Just keep letting her know that you have wanted the marriage along, and that you told her in the letter how she could make you feel like taking it up with her again. Then let her do it. <p>You have got to feel some happiness that she is talking like she is. I hope it is the real thing.

Thanks, she does have a Plan B letter and she is fully aware of what see needs to do. Now we wait and see what happens. The waiting is the hardest part.<p>I do have some happiness but it is overshadowed by anxiety... I woke up this AM and my entire body was shaking, like I was very cold. I have not been calling her so when I do not hear from her, my mind goes to the negative extreme - is she talking to OM, did he stop over, is she going back to him, etc, etc. What a horrible feeling.
Thanks for the support,
Dave

Dave,

It's a horrible feeling, not knowing, and always wondering.

Hang in there, I hope things swing your way...
Stay strong though.

Wallace

Hi davepr,<p>Sorry I haven’t got back to you sooner, but I was on a business trip.<p>You still sound great! You have a good plan and your executing it perfectly. Great job on Plan B! <p>As for me, things are not going so good. However, I feel bad saying anything, because you’ve been thorough h*ll and back. My troubles are small compared to yours.<p>My problem is I’m almost out of gas. Tomorrow is my 23rd wedding anerversary, and I think I'm the only one who cares? Frankly, part of me wants to give up. My wife separated from me 5 weeks ago, and actually things have improved some, but she’s still very cold toward me and it’s starting to wear me down.<p>I'll try to hang in here and you do the same.<p>Take Care,
L&F [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi again Davepr,<p>(Sorry a little long)<p>I found the following information in a book and I thought you would find it interesting. It kinda offers a medical explanation for why our WS spouses have gone nuts.<p>It comes from a book titled “The Truth About Love” by Pat Love ED.D.<p>“When you meet a strong candidate for love, you limbic system is flooded with a powerful chemical concoction – so powerful the scientists now believe that the euphoria of infatuation is a bona fide, altered state of consciousness. It is induced by the action of phenylethylamine (PEA), which is a naturally occurring, amphetamine-like neurotransmitter. Michael Liebowitz, a research psychiatrist at the New York State Psychiatric Institute, explains that when we come into contact with a person who highly attracts us, our brain becomes saturated with a love cocktail comprised of PEA and several other excitatory neurotransmitters, including dopamine and norepinephrine. PEA, known as the “love molecule”, works in concert with dopamine and norepinephrine and triggers incredible side effects. Symptoms include a delightfully positive attitude, increased energy, decreased need for sleep, and loss of appetite. Increased concentrations of dopamine in the brain are associated with euphoria.”<p>“PEA, dopamine, and norepinephrine pack such a powerful chemical wallop that people in the throes of infatuation undergo a temporary personality change... This is why lovers say things like “I can’t believe I’m talking to you like this. I’m telling you things I’ve never told anybody” Or, “You’re so easy to talk to”<p>“The delightful influence or infatuation makes us dangerously inclined to make decisions we may later regret”<p>“Full-blown infatuation knows no fear… The frenzied action of lovers’ neurons renders the fearless and unrealistically optimistic. It is no wonder that they tend to discount alarming qualities in their sweethearts.”<p>“When you are aroused, any number of partners can give you simple sexual relief. Infatuation is different. You can be attracted to a number of people but infatuated with only one at a time. Infatuation is characterized by focused attention on a specific partner. When you are infatuated with someone, only this person can give you those euphoric “in love” feeling.”<p>“It is important, though, to realize that infatuation is merely the earliest stage of love. Do not mistake this temporary power surge for a permanent condition, or confuse it with true love.”<p>“The euphoria of infatuation only lasts about six months and then it slowly begins to wane. By the second year, scientists tell us that lovers are on their own without the aid of Mother Nature’s love potion.”<p>
There are some key phrases here such as “altered state of consciousness”, “temporary personality change”, “fearless and unrealistically optimistic”, and “dangerously inclined to make decisions they may later regret”<p>God Bless,
L&F<p>[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Lost & Found ]</p>

L&F, thanks for the post, that does make ALOT of sense, I am gland there is some physical/chemical explanation for this behavior.<p>Hang in there, I am sorry things are not going well for you, we both know that the WS can do a complete 180 on a dime.<p>My WS is at her sisters with the kids for the weekend, she called me last night to say good night. I am not calling her, it is tough to stick with Plan B when the WS starts to reach out for you.<p>Take care,
Dave

Hi Dave!<p>I thought you were going to go into a combination of Plan A and Plan B.<p>Your post says your still in Plan B., or did I read that wrong?<p>I can understand why your being so careful.<p>Wallace

Hi Wallace, I am moving from Plan A to Plan B slowly, I truely believe the A is dead so I should now work to meet her ENs if she is willing to agree to our boundries. We are working to setup boundries and goals, so far so good. She has caught the OM in many, many lies, it was a fake for him to get what he wanted from her - sex.
She knows this now, I knew this 10 months ago, guess the fog kept her from seeing the truth, now she sees the truth and feels like **** about it.
Anyway, things are still going well.
Thanks
Dave

That's great news Dave, keep up the good work.<p>It sounds like the fog is in fact lifting from your W, that is so good to hear.<p>Best of luck Dave, I hope it all works out for you and your W.<p>Wallace