Hello FI and Wallace
Been away for a couple of days. Went out of town over the weekend to figure some stuff out and busy with other stuff since then. It helped to really figure out how I wanted to proceed in this M. I decided this weekend, that he has hurt me so bad that I will not take him back. I don't want the person that he has become. Stopped wearing my wedding ring and felt really good about myself. At least, I did until last night.
WH came over after dinner stating that we needed to talk about money. I have received $300.00 in the last 2 months from him. But, he has the money to go on fishing trips and diving trips/vacation. Gave me some sob story about his business not doing well and they are going to close the doors. Told me he was also looking for a second job (I applied at a couple of different places last night), think he told me this because S told him I was looking for 2nd job. Told me that he hadn't gotten a pay check in 3 weeks. Told him that the money wasn't for me that it was for the kids and they were still his responsibility too. Of course he blew up a couple of times and finally stormed out of the house. He expects me to just accept that he isn't going to pay me anything and he doesn't have any responsibilities. <p>I told him over 2 weeks ago to get the papers together and we would file them. I refuse to do this. For once he is actually going to have to do something. He is the one that made the choice to have the A and I'm not going to pay for it or the kids. <p>Called me later last night and I answered him with 1-2 word answers. Told me that he was going to bring the papers over next Tuesday so we can work on them. I really don't expect him to have anything ready except for another excuse. <p>I have decided that I'm not going to even try and communicate with him. No matter how I state my e-mails he tells me that they are scathing. I believe that he thinks that if he gives me some sob story that I will feel sorry for him and let him slide. He is so lost in the FOG. <p>I still care about him but I no longer love him. I am ready to move on and if it means that I have to work 2 jobs for a time, then that is what I will do. I feel stronger each day, (except when he comes over) and realize that this is the plan that God has for me. Isn't there a saying that God won't give you more than you can handle, but it sure feels like it sometimes. I figure I'm going to be a better person, more loving, caring, understanding after this is over. It has really opened up my eyes. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Both of you hang in there and keep your chins up.

Hi. Moi again.
Gosh, my saga is so long & drawn out I'm tired of it. Its hard to summarize. H & I friends plus for 5 yrs. Did not live together. Married - 10 yr anniversary last month (went by without comment on his part). I had so many thoughts & dreams in the past of how this day would be a celebration, HA! Look how awful times are now.<p>H & I both with deceased parents & few family members. Both I guess very codependant on each other. He never made decision on his own, always asked me and many others. Of course if the result went sour, . . then it was always MY fault, for the actions he took. Chip on his shoulder about education & salary. Terrible good-ol-boy politics at previous job. Very bad. He got the shaft SO many times & there was so much crookedness, I still feel thats what started this. But H has always been paranoid & a pessimist, so that got worse. I did not wish to discuss it any more, I always try to see the other side of things too- Him- absolutely not! Like a dog with a juicy bone - will NOT let go. I wanted us to have a life outside of work. He would refuse to go anywhere & tell me go by myself.<p>Then he started going to OW's office & talking to her. Thats when all hell started breaking loose.
I was clueless and the last to know!! He used to always call me when out of town for work & we'd chat & he'd buy me a trinket or funny t-shirt or something. Always got me nice B-day present etc.<p>He started with the need more space. . . we're not compatible . . .get away from him & to mind my own Gd'mnd business etc. He stopped calling me, refused to tell me where he was going etc. Was very cruel & abusive towards me. Tore up cards I got him, threw photos in trash, threatened to toss all MY stuff out in a yard sale since it was all "junk". (All away neatly in closets mind you!). A long long list. He would have cordless phone in basement & sneak calls. He was home recovering from surgery for 3 weeks & I found an email to OW at work about her screen name "Use soulmate, lonesome or sexy101 but don't use your initials". But the dumb hag used her initials and they were on the Yahoo Messenger. By the time I figured out chats were archived, I had confronted him & he'd deleted it. I suspected they got together during field trips & much later confirmed it to myself that they were at same hotel on same night out of town at least 3 or 4 times last year on long weekends for "work". I picked up extension & heard him ask for room # before he realized once & came running & screaming at me how I was spying on him, following him all over town etc (I had nver followed him but was looking at receipts he left laying around). Said he was calling an #800 for his phone card & 2 or 3 other excuses!! I HEARD him ask for room #. Next day saw that OW was in that town that night. <p>They were in each others office CONSTANTLY. THen, she was in HIS office constantly. Appeared at her desk for 5 minutes every hour or so then went back to his again. They often had the office door shut!! Now I was having my own politics at that place & when I would go to talk to him, SHE was in his office & I, his wife, was delegated to talking to him about my personal business out in the hallway in front of everyone, while SHE sat in his office like some queen. He told me to stay away from his office. I found out later his male coworkers would ask "Where's your girlfriend?" when she would finally leave.<p>I asked her to back down & she told me a bunch of bullS@#*. She went & lied to him about things I never said and he believed HER over me!! Manipulative scheming BIT@#. Life at home was HELL. He was constantly screaming at me fighting with me telling me where he went and what he did was none of my G'd business. WHen I was sick, he ignored me & told me he didnt give a damn about my health.<p>She got her H to file & moved out in Sept 01. Final Oct 01. They have joint custody of 4 yr old boy. She is a mental case. Once H brought child to her place & she refused to let them in!! (pretty sure my H was there). I saw the email, a phone bill for 3 hrs phone call to hotel in Wichita where she was, etc etc. He planned to file D against me when hers went final. Only I got let go from job!! I was unemployed for 5 weeks. I asked him to get temporary health insurance on me - HE REFUSED. He split accounts in half & opened new accounts with his half. (since I did the same to the remainder). But when I was out of job it kinked his plan. He felt he had to wait. He told me I got fired on purpose!! and he was giving me 2 weeks!! It took 5 weeks but I got a job I love & am better off in. He filed then. 11/01. <p>All this time he was living at home. A few times he was gone all night with no explanation. Earlier I had found him once at her house when she was still married & her H was out of town!! I was stupidly naive at the time, but now I am sure they were in the bedroom then too! Jumping back to November, I told him maybe he should leave after he filed ( I saw he had filed on the internet court web page - he did not come home that night. I drove to where she now lived after midnight & his truck was there). He says "Oh, you want me to?" in this sad voice over the phone. Well, what else? He filed!! So he moved out for about 2 months. During that time, before and after I saw his truck at OW's place MANY times late at night.<p>He was lingering around on weekends & came back & filed dismissal in late January 02. But that first week, was in contact with OW at least twice. His behaviour did not change - still no account of his whereabouts - still sneaky on phone & computer. Well, now he has a cell phone and a laptop. After finding him last month at her place again after another lie, He continued to deny it. I told him I was sure if I looked at his laptop or cell I would see evidence to the contrary. They disappeared. Now he keeps them locked in tote bag & keeps tote bag in the truck LOCKED in our own garage. He has said he will get an apt in town he works at, & file again, but nothing has happened.<p>Oh, before he moved out I had seen several receipts & kept thinking maybe it was for our friends housewarming, local picnic etc. NOPE. He bought toys & nightlight for her kid & kitchen things for her when she moved to apt. (Did not come home that night). He bought an expensive shower caddy, bath spa, cordless phone etc all for her. Lord knows what else. AFter christmas, her now ex-H called me cause H bought kid a christmas present & it pissed him off BAD!! He had known about affair since last May! but was only calling now! We exchanged details & I had ALL my suspicions confirmed & then SOME! Her & Victorias Secret lingerie, boxes of condoms, Kama Sutra book, strange behaviors, lies defensiveness, suddenly doing laundry (bedsheets when her H was out of town - Her ex says mine was there those times). He told his then ex that she could do the humpty dumpty on her own time, but that she was not to expose their son to my H or any others - no presents - NOTHING that he knew where my H lived & could trakc him down. Oh, also all those mornings he was going to the gym & I thought she may be there ?? They were in her VAN outside 1 hr before gym opened doing God knows what & would sit by coffee machine & talk qiuetly - and not work out!! Her H and I were going in the evenings sepeartely, but did not know each other at the time - DARN!!<p>This yr, We find out I qualify to have the loan on our home on my own name only!! When I told him this, he came back!! I think now, he just wanted to get me to agree to sell the house so him & OW could go live in la la land together somewhere in a new home. But her custody agreement puts a kink in that (heh, heh).<p>And WHY have I been fighting this, not wanting divorce, never signing the first papers - allowing it to become dismissed afterall 03/02!??? As many have asked - why am I punishing myself??? Some awful rotten distorted sense of "unconditional love" I guess. I thought he might "get over it" or realize what he was losing/giving up. Nope. He totally ignores all our friends. Does not return their calls, refuses to go to the little parties/potlucks we have. But I still go by myself! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] so that probably pisses him off. I think if he realizes how WRONG he has been, that maybe he is ashamed to face them. But God knows, he will not acknowlege anything to me. He only comes home 11PM to sleep on floor. Did I mention there is NO paperwork of his at home? No credit card statments & the like. he must have it all at work or at her place. Reaffirms to me he must be hiding a hell of a lot.<p>After our anniversary passed on May 17th (our 10th) he was at conference out of town for the thrid time in a month (yes, there WAS meetings) but each time he returned to airport town where he works said he was cathing up on work & would stay the night there (~ 75 miles away). This 3rd time was after our ANN. and after I had told him on phone I would ask no questions & couldnt we work it out & he FLAT OUT REFUSED! That wasnt like him. Before he wouldve felt bad & indicated maybe for at least 1 day. Not this time. ANd so I drove to OW's place the night he shoulv'e been in KC and low and behold his truck is there at 11PM & all her lights are out except for the glare of the tv. He heard my car muffler & came barreling home with some bull excuse.<p>No more. I am done with his lies. If he wants that haggy rag, she's welcome to him. I dont need any more verbal or emotional abuse. One year of trying to live with Jekyll & Hyde has been enough! I just want HIM to file again & take responsability for ONE thing in his miserable life. I will not let him blame me for that! Though I am sure he emailed all his college friends and relatives oversease how it was all MY fault and she was "just a working colleage". Damn! I shouldve taken the video camera or something & mailed it to all them! Ha! I nver could, but thinking about it is fun! I said to someone else on here if Revenge belongs to GOd, then I wish I could still see it acted out BEFORE they die & have judgement day!! I want OW to be a million times more distraught and miserable and betrayed, abandoned, alone, than I have been.<p>AH, now I feel better! Vent. . .vent. .

Is this A Bad Dream,

It's good to hear that you have made your mind up and decided to move forward.

I have temp CC and my WW has not paid one dime of child support, which she is court ordered to do. She owes since October of last year so it is adding up.

I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. They had the A, let them start paying for it. That is the only up side I have had concerning my situation. Once they have to start shelling out their money, I'm sure they are not going to like that.

I have spent thousands so far and it has got me no where at all to this point concerning my D. On the other hand, she has not spent one dime. Turning the tables on them this time.

It will be good for them to get a dose of some of the medicine they have been handing out.

I'm back and forth on my feelings with my WW. Sometimes I miss her, and sometimes I don't.
I know I could never go back to the way things were with her If you add in what has happened since, I can't even imagine me getting back with her ever.

It's good to see your doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi everyone,<p>It's amazing how all of these life stories are so similar. It's amazing how our spouses think if they make themselves believe their own lies that we will too. They must spend so much of their time trying to justify their actions to themselve to avoid any guilt. Someday, on a lonly dark night, when life is not so great for them, and we are well on our way through recovery, it will hit them and they will see what they have done and cry. Life goes in cycles if you have ever noticed, you have a good year, someone you know is having it tough then one day without realizing when it happened, you look around and you are the one having the problems and that someone is doing fine. We are just in the problem part of that cycle right now and things are going to turn around for all of us. I wish H no malice but like you guys, I sure as heck don't want him back. I have asked myself often is I ever had that life and relationship I dream of, because looking back, that is what I have struggled to have,keep?, but now I wonder if I was holding on to a dream or reality. The farther I get from the situation, the more I can see that it has never been very good. Have walked on eggshell the entire time. After H 1st A, he did his best to convince me it was my fault and I better do better so it didn't happen again. He has always told me I am crazy and need a dr and some pills to fix it. I was crazy but not like he thinks. It drives you crazy to catch your H with a teeny-bopper and find out it's been going on for a couple of years, and all of this time, your inner voice is saying somethings not right here and you try to talk to him about it and get met with a mad-man screaming at the top of his lungs that you're crazy and paranoid. The only time H has ever admitted anything is when he is caught in the act, and even then "It's not what you think or it's not what it looks like" When I started posting my name was Longtimfool, then I felt like I had wised up and the day I let go of him emotionally, I felt soooo free,hence new name. He has done some very dispicable things that I will most likely take to my grave with me, unless he gives me a big hassle over this D then I will use them for leverage. As I stated before, I would like to leave him some dignity to carry on his life, but at this point, I am planning out my stratigy carefully. I can't afford to go into this blindsided. It's pretty petty shen you feel like you have to have plan A,B,C etc for divorce. He has been gone since Mon. working about 90 miles away, he calls every eve, like everything is just fine with us, like I should be interested in how his day went and what he did. I don't say much at all, just listen, but he doesn't ask how my day was, how the kids are or anything. <p>My kids are so stressed over our continuing saga, they have given up on me filing and think it will be like this forever. I try to explain that I have to work this out because I don't have the money to just go file and, unlike and for different reasons that some others, I want to be in contol when it gets filled. I'm going to make my demands and if he doesn't like it he can pay to fight it. Sometimes, I wish I could Hate Him so as to get through this easier, but that is not what or who I am. I've been told what I feel is worse than hate, because I have become indifferent. I don't care, I have no feelings for him neg or pos. The not wanting to hurt him doesn't really have to do with him, but more with who I am. I just this minute figured that one out as I was typing this. Ok now I understand this situation so much better.
Thanks for listening you guys. I am really excited, it might not sound like much to you but it is a major breakthrough for me. A light is on, I am on to the next step of my journey. I understand something I have been struggling with.
Have to go and think on this.
Love all of you guys, thanks for everything!!
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

Hi All,

Nothing really new on my end, except this.

My BIL came to my house and is staying with us for the moment. He lives with my MIL and his W at my MIL's house.

Long story short... he was laying on the couch at his home pretending to sleep, MIL and SIL were in the next room and they started talking about how they saw my WW with some guy with red hair and a beard the other day. Well when my BI heard this he got into an arguement with them. Reason for the arguement is because my MIL and SIL have been contending that they have not been in contact with my WW since she has left (over 2 months plus), and they also contended to me that she was not having an A, or been in contact with WW.

So he came to my house and told me everything. Now he is living at my house.
Loose a W, gain a BIL... go figure.

Well it sounds like it is pretty busy on this thread.

I can't see the replies to respond to each one of them but I have to agree that there is a pattern with all of these people who are having A's.
The lies and excuses are all about the same, situations are just a little bit different.

laura lee,

I know in my heart that you are going to win in the long run. How could you lose... you have God on your side.

Free Indeed,

I'm glad that you have realized the path you need to take. Sometimes when your responding to a post, things like that happen.

AgainstTheWind,

I know how you are feeling, it wears on you after awhile. It does feel like your going against the wind when you are involved with all this garbage... I know that is why you changed your name to what it is now. Hang in there, it's about all you can do for the moment.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi All,<p>I guess what makes my situation a little different from most is that my H is content to go along like things are now. He is still here, no communication, no touching, no nothing. He hasn't left(besides working out of town, and I know he is because we both work for the state) but he acts like nothing is wrong. I, on the other hand have to take the initiative and make a move on someone who acts like nothing is wrong. If he left it would be different but he is never going to. By reading some otheres post on these boards, I think a lot of people feel like if their spouse were just still home things could be worked out easier. Well, I'm here to tell you, it's not that easy. It's just a different set of problems. It may fill a need for some just to be able to see their spouse, but in some ways it makes it harder. I still feel I'm onthe correct path,but I will certainly be relieved when it is all over. <p>This is not very pretty to admit, however, I have come to the conclusion that in not wanting to hurt him, I am being selfish. I really think it stems from the fact that if I cause him pain, I will feel rotten and it's the not wanting to feel rotten thats keeping me from some progress. Having realized this it shows me that it is fear holding me back. Fear of feeling worse than I already do. I am slowly working through this, and I am learning alot about myself in the process. My hope is to come out on the other side a healthier,happier, more productive, more loving, more understanding person. As far a H is concerned, he will have to choose his own path and find his own way. He is a taker and a controller, abusive and confused, but I cannot change him, I can only change me.<p>Everybody tie a knot and hang on!

Free Indeed,<p>I have to agree with you about not having your spouse with you in your house with all the garbage going on.<p>With everything I have found out, I'm glad she is gone. I don't want her back. There is no way to erase the damage that has been done. I couldn't look at here in the same way that I use too... ever!
There is no way, that I could live in the same house with my WW, knowing what I know. Lucky for me she was the one who decided to leave.
Don't get me wrong though... I wish none of this ever happened, but it did and there is nothing I can do about it now. What is done is done.<p>It must be extremely hard to have your spouse carry on an A while they are in the same house as you are.<p>Free Indeed, you go back and look at one of my posts on this thread about you not wanting to hurt anyone... I think I said that you didn't want to hurt anyone because of the pain you have gone through.
I think I migh of called that one correctly, what do you think?<p>I'm still trying to figure a way to get this D out of the rut it is in. I really can't and don't want to be married to my WW spouse anymore. I just want out of it. I'm not MB am I?
Sometimes people cross a point of no return... my WW crossed it.
I so want to put all this behind myself and my children and go on, but there always seems to be something standing in my way.<p>I have to agree when you said some spouses would just be happy to look at their WS. I can understand that... but in my case I know I would not be happy, I think I would get sick to my stomach.<p>Well, just venting a little bit, hope you don't mind.<p>Stay in Touch!<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace

Hi Wallce,<p>Yep, you are right about the reason for not wanting to cause pain is because of the pain I have experienced. I also hate to cause myself anymore but there is not way to avoid it yet. It's painful to be in this situation and I think it will be painful to end it. The only difference is if I stay in it, it will last a lot longer. At least when this is behind me, I feel I can move forward and there wont be much need to look back. While I'm still in the middle of it, everything that happens (negative) seems to loom the past to life. It's is not fair to H either because he has no room for a mistake at this point. He has used all of his get out of jail free cards if you know what I mean. I still don't hate the guy,I guess it is what the C said,that I am indifferent. I have to get over that too. I guess?? If you don't love someone and you don't hate them, what's left?<p>I don't think I'm MB either, at least not in all circumstances. I do think they have some great info, but it's like you said earlier,"you can't paint a masterpiece if you don't have any paint."<p>Gotta run. You have a good day and I hope your D can start progressing again so you can move on with your life and your kids can too.
FI

Free Indeed,

I have to agree with what you are saying. You know when it is over, and when it is time to move on... why prolong it.

If either of us had a marriage that even remotely looked like it was able to be salvaged, then I could see possibly taking another shot at it. But, why beat a dead horse.

Not only do I not have any paint for my masterpiece, I can't find any canvass either.

Have a good day today.

Stay in touch!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Howdie.<p>Wallace?
Are you certain that your W could take so much of your finances in the D?? Have you met with lawyers? Our state is "no fault" and all they care about is can you agree on how assets be divided amongst yourselves? If not, not judge will order 50/50 usually or to sell stuff & split money. We have no kids to worry about custody stuff. If I were to ask for "maintenance" (alimony) the number of yrs you are married is plugged into a formula but the amount of time you actually would pay IS less. Its something like 25% of the DIFFERENCE in the two salaries. As for retirement, yes since we past the 10 yr mark I would be entitled to more from his, but it still is NOT something H would have to pay from his pocket or salary. It comes from elsewhere. In your case, your W abandoned you (and children??). Isn't there some sort of Default date, that if no response is received, then your divorce would be automatic?? You need to find this stuff out.<p>ANd definately get that "Rebuilding when your relationship ends" book by Robert Fisher. It IS what you need to read now. It is a good book. We all waiver between anger & denial & hurt & depression, but need to move toward acceptance and self improvement and independence! I wont say its easy though. Its an every day struggle for me to stick with it.<p>Free:
Wait for me! You're getting ahead - which is a good thing! My H only arrives home at 10 or 11PM and lays on family room floor to sleep. If I do not speak, he says nothing at all to me - not even hi or goodnight. Last night he went to the basement (computer rm) and stayed down there until I shut off the fan & TV to go to bed. Then he came up to family room to sleep when I left! Bedrooms are upstairs. We have 2 story with basement. Like yours, living like this doesn't seem to bother my H one bit!! I have no idea where he goes every evening. It is not to any of our friends homes. He would have me believe this guy T's house, but I think I figured out the street T lives on and have not seen H's truck there. I found H's truck at OW's last month again after a huge lie, I have not seen truck since there. I drive by sometimes at random. Both places are on my way home. All I can think is that he is hiding truck somewhere OR that he got some studio apt. somewhere in town? But he is home like clockwork every night 10:30 OR 11pm. He cant be hanging out in the stores every night these months for all that time? Not that knowing would change anything. <p>I think he did all this to make me file and thus be the "badguy" and blame me for the marriage failure. I got book from library on "Affairs. . " that was pretty interesting. I think the author was Emily Brown? She gives affairs categories & my H is definately a split self/ or exit affair. Those who do exit affairs have wanted the marriage to end but hadn't the guts to talk to spouse & they think affair would drive us to end it for them - usually would work I guess!! If he wants this, I want to make the lousy so and so take responsibilty for this one action ONCE in his life to where he cant blame ME. He has blamed me for everything. Split self has grown up doing what others want done to be happy but sacrafices their own feelings & lose themselves. Then fall into affair where the OP listens, makes 'em feel good, yada yada. Then that is all they can see & want OP but feel guilty about BS especially if have kids & want "family" too. AARGH. Psychiatrists should come up with an Antidote pill for this! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>And so I wait & see if he ever mentions moving out or filing . . . and he doesn't. I can't beleive he is so casual about all this & have a hard time accepting that he really couldn't give a damn about me after all these years!!?? But I am only hurting myself in the process. But I want to avoid confrontation since I want to remain living in the home. he said he would leave it to me but anytime I confronted him or disagreed on anything he threatened otherwise - to take it from me or throw me out on street etc. I cant afford to buy him out & I'm afraid a judge would make us sell. And I'll die before I move out leaving it to him so OW can move into MY home with him!! ANd so I wait. . . I am trying to stay busy. But all I feel like doing is sleeping when Im not at work. I have gone from not eating (last year) to craving comfort foods too much (pizza, fried stuff, burgers, chocolate anything) and gained all the weight I lost back. I dont want to be a blimp! But I just cant get enthused about going to the gym again. Procrastination has taken hold of me & I feel like doing Nothing! The clutter in my life has broken free! Help!!

Hi AgainstTheWind,

To give you a little info on my D siutation,
my State is a "no-fault" State as well.
We have a few problems though with this D.

As you said, you split everything 50/50 in most cases. debts vs. assets.

One of my big problems in this D, is the debt load.
When she left, she maxed out all of my personal credit cards for cash advances... thousands.
These debts are in my name only on these credit cards. She got all the money,I didn't see any of it.
She did the same thing with my personal checking account... wiped it out by forging my signature... thousands. Bank is fighting me on replacing the money as we speak.

So... here is the big kicker... I have already paid her 50% share and then some already . The credit card debt far exceeds everything else in terms of assets not counting the interest or the money she got from my checking account.

So, do we pay her again, by giving her another 50% of the assets and only half of the debt load that was incurred, or shouldn't she get the whole credit card debt load due to the forgeries.

On the original D papers we requested mediation. Well, that is out the door since she is hiding out and we have not heard from her in over 2 months plus.

So the attorneys decided to throw the ball in her court, and do nothing until we her from her. I have temp custody of children... and by all appearances it will more than likely stay as a final decree, whenever we can finalize.

So, by all standards, if I assume the total debt load... which I'm willing to do, and deduct it from the money she has already received... which exceeds her 50%. IMHO she should just be able to walk away with her personal effects and collections. But we believe she wants more... she wants another half of everything... which we do not want to do.
If it goes before a Judge without mediation, she will likely get another half... and I get half of her debt load that she incurred. I'm crying "foul" on that one.

But for all intense and purposes, we are not really sure what she wants. I don't know what she wants. She won't come out and put this M to an end and I don't understand why.

Considering all that has happened... I think she should at least let us put this to closure, without all this insanity surrounding it.

I don't see us ever getting back together... it would take a miracle from God.

It is not your usual situation... at least that is my humble opinion. This whole thing is waaaaaay off the map.

Thanks for suggesting that book, I'm going to check that out... and thanks for the input.
I'm always open for suggestions.

Stay Strong!

Wallace<p>[ June 21, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>

ATW
Random drive by's, sounds like fun. I don't think my H is having orhas had an A for several years, although I could be very wrong. His was about 17 years ago and I didn't find out for 3 years and it was still going on. Talk about stupid (me). Don't want to go into details at this time. But it was very painful considering the circumstances. I chose, that day, to forgive him and her. It was a very trying time tho. I was pregnant at the time and the same day I caught them, I read about my best friends baby, drowning in their pool, in the newspaper. I was her labor coach and was there when the baby was born. She said she just couldn't call me. Anyway, we all went to counseling, that day. Him, her and I!!
I told them that I needed help before the sun set and they were going with me. For some reason, as I was praying desperatly for someone to go to, a pastor came to my mind and I really feel like the Lord said go to this person. I did'nt even know his name. He was the pastor of a small church that didn't have a building and met in a hotel conference room. I had no idea how to contact this person. I did know the man who ran the Christian bookstore in a nearby town so I called him, hoping he would know who this pastor was. A man answered the phone, I asked for the owner, he gave the phone to him and I asked him if he knew who this pastor was. He told me his name and then he told me he had been the one who answered the phone when I called! I took that as a confirmation
He agreed to meet with us that evening. We had several sessions with him and attended his church for quite a while. I have to admit, I went through living hell trying to overcome this. I was hoping that, given a second chance, being forgiven,H would offer something in return towards rebuilding our relationship. He said he was sorry but maintained the idea that it was my fault he did this. Before I found them out with the A, I got pregnant. I was thrilled. His aunt was sick with the flu, (her husband had just left her for OW, at 60 years old.) She was devestated. Anyway, I went by to check on her to see how she was doing and found her very ill with the flu. I fixed her some soup and something to drink and left. I was there 15 min. Well, a couple of days later, OS got sick he was 6 at the time. The next day I got sick, started spotting. The next day all 3 kids are sick along with H. The spotting was getting heavier and I knew I was going to miscarry, So I took all the boys to dr to get them meds in case I got laid up and couldn't. H dropped us off at kids dr and went to see his dr.<p>I had a miscarriage while at the kids dr. I called him to come and get me and take me to the Hosp. Skipping the details my dr talked me into having a D&C in the office with no anesthia. I had 104 temp. Thought I was going to die. H has the nerve to tell me if I didn't have to play miss goody 2 shoes with his aunt I wouldn't have killed the baby. I knew then I had no emotional support. I didn't allow myself to feel anything about this. I completly numbed my emotions because I felt I needed support to face it. The dr said he was sorry about the baby and H said that's ok it wasn't planned anyway! Two months later I was pregnant again with what would be my last. She is 14 now. Five months before she was born, I discovered A. Three weeks befor she was born disaster started at our house. One accident after another. Lasted for 3 years intensly. H & I had fights about leaving loaded guns accessible to children. He won, left aloaded gun in pickup, my three year old shot the 6 year old in the leg. The first shot, which was blank was between the eyes. Thank God he always back the cylinder to leave the first shot blank. We spent every holiday for an entire year at the Hops. emergeny room for one disaster or another. We went through rocky muntain spotted fever with a 2 year old, a pipe fell 10 ft and hit 3 year old in the head, you could see his skull, Baby had rsv , while the boys had 3 weeks of chicken pox. I could go on for hours and not finish. On Feb 14, 1990 I felt it leave. I told H what ever was attacking kids, was gone, He thought I was nuts. That night in minor car accident, I suffered a sever whiplash. The next day at work H broke his back. Work faught him on this. H was not able to have surgery till may. Dr said recovery time was 4 to 6 mo. One year later they finally released him. Work fired him because the said it was not work related. Said when he was released from Dr he could have job back. Work never took him back. Hired lawyer, I had the whold conversation on tape of them promising his job back. Don't know what happened but lawyer dropped the case saying we couldn't win. Out of resourses by now. No one in state would hire H. He had been on that job over 10 years. Sued work for injury, won. Settlement got us out of debt and moved to another state. I am an extremly strong person and I don't give up with out a fight or easily but I am through. There is so much more to this story it is pathetic. To this day I don't know how I endured it all. The only time H would ever discuss feelings or problems was if I provoked an argument. And I didn't do it intentionaly he just assumed Iwanted to fight if I wanted to talk. He has hit me, knocked me out, hit my kids, is so abusive emotionally and mentally it is destroying us. I regret staying and trying to work this out for so long. One thing he was good at (besides lying and sheating) was knowing when to back off and let me think he really was changing and about the time I let my guard down here it came again. Although I don't agree with every MB concept this has been very good for me to post here. I feel safe in doing so. If he should happen to find it and read it, then he will know how I feel because he wont let me tell him. Most of the story above has never been told to anyone except those involved. It feels good to get it off my chest. Sadly, all of this is not why I am leaving him, I have forgiven him for all of it. He is still mean to me and our kids and we are all tired and worn down and need a life that doesn't center around trying to keep him happy. Sometimes I think I would feel better about everything if I could just cry and get it out, but I can't even cry anymore. I want my life back, I want my feelings and emotions back, and I want myself back. And I'm going to get it!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] :mad
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Looks like I've lost it huh? I have but I will get it back. I that for all of you guys too.

Wallace,<p>I just have time for a quick reply but wanted to let you know what I know about debt division in a no-fault divorce.<p>It didn't matter (in our case, anyway) whose name the debt was in. We had been married nearly 20 years and everything was considered to be jointly owned or owed, including all the debts. Because of some weirdness in specific balances, I ended up with debts that were solely in her name and she ended up with some that were solely in my name.<p>If this applies in your situation, you'll still have 1/2 the debts that she maxed out cards for, but she'll have the other 1/2. Still a raw deal, but not so bad as it could be.<p>Just something to think about, I guess. Talk to your lawyer and figure it out from there.<p>Good luck.

O2,

I know what your saying about the splitting of the debt load... she gets half of it and I get the other half of it.

I know there is probably no way around it, but I know she will not pay her half of the debt load, and I want to hold on to our home for our kids.

She went out and filed bankruptcy, she didn't need to, she just needed to pay her bills that she aquired on her own.
Because of that I had to pay $10,000.00 to get the lien off my house, or they were going to auction my house off for her portion of the equity portion of the assets that she held on the house. She owed $10,000.00 in credit card debt in her name that she never paid for.

So, unless I buy her out on the equity of our home, which I already did when she left approx $153,000.00 (and we were legally seperated when she did the forgeries and credit card maxing for cash). What I'm trying to say is I already bought her equity out, not voluntarily, and without my knowledge, but still the same she received the money.

Now, I get to buy her out again. Pay her money again.

I'm not sure if I'm making sense on this, but basically I'm buying her out not once but twice, and the attorneys want to go into mediation to present the case to a mediator and see if we can't come up with an agreement showing she has already received her equity buyout. So we don't have to bring it up to the Judge and fight in Court over this issue.

If it goes up in front of the Judge, I'm likely going to have to pay her again. That is one of the major stumbling blocks, one of which I want to avoid.

Hope that made sense.

Wallace

Hey Wallace -
I find it just amazing that it seems that the WS is the once that goes crazy when they move out and run up the debt. Luckly we had just refinanced the house and did a debt consolidation so we closed a bunch of the credit card accounts. Unfortunately, STBXH hasn't gotten a paycheck (so he says) for the past 3 weeks. Owns his own business that is not doing well. Therefore he is not giving me any assistance on any of the bills. He just expects me to understand and when he was over last Tuesday wants me to sell the house now. Don't think we are going to get much of anything left over after relators commission but I talked to the kids and they understand that I won't be able to make all the bills on my salary. Applied for another part-time job but haven't heard anything. I wrote up some of the divorce provisions that I want included and I'm not asking him for anything but Child Support for our S 15 on a monthly basis. I also put the student loan back in his court and I will absorb the college costs this next school year for our D, 19. <p>I think he actually put a change of address in for his mail. Surprise!! There was a card in the mailbox yesterday asking who resides here. Wrote nothing for STBXH or his business was to be delivered here. <p>One of the things that is still bothering me is that while we were doing the refinance he charged some stuff on a credit card. This card ended up having a balance owed on it even after the debt consolidation because he charged in between the approval and qualifying period. I actually bit the bullet and paid for 1/2 of those charges. I know, stupid me, but I didn't want it said that I didn't do everything that I agreed to even if it was verbally. Our verbal agreement was that I was to recieve a set amount per week. Since he hasn't gotten paid I have received one check over the last three weeks. What really burns me is that he is planning a vacation over the 4th of July and he doesn't have money to give me??? I told him that he can explain to the kids how he can go on vacation for a week but he can't give us any money. <p>At this point, I don't want his money. My boss at work is very understanding and since I work in a very small office (10 people) it feels like family. Told me today that if I need some money to get by until the house sells to just come and see him. It's great to have such supportive people around me and he doesn't even know that H had A and that is the root of the whole problem. <p>I would guess that STBXH thought that he was foot loose and fancy free and didn't have any responsibilities (even to his children) and so he spent and did exactly as he pleased. He has one credit card in his name that I have removed myself from the account. One week after the decision to get the DV he had already charged on it again. When he got it after the refinance he gave me some sob story about how they accrued interest charges of $200.00 on it before the refinance paid it off. I was going to tell him that I thought that is about what he spent of OW's Valentine/B-Day gift this year so he can pay it. He actually didn't have the nerve to ask me to pay 1/2. <p>I don't wish him ill but I also don't feel like the kids or I should pay orhave the pain that I'm going through because he is still in the fog and doesn't want the responsibilities. <p>Can't wait until we sign the papers and then we just have the waiting period. I this was mentioned in before but I would never take him back he is not the kind of man that I would want to be around let alone trust or depend on again. I don't want someone that is so selfish that he doesn't take care of his kids first. <p>Hang in there Wallace, hopefully get better shortly. Remember you can only take it one day at a time and your kids will someday find out everything that you did for them and really appreciate you. Be strong and let her come to you so that you can go to arbitration like your lawyers suggest and maybe the arbitrator will see the real picture. We are all hoping for you.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Wallace,<p>With more details revealed, I can deffinatly see your point in putting your D on hold. You do have a lot at stake here. I think she has taken you for enough. I may have messed it somewhere, but was there any legal recourse to take against her for stealing from you? Your situation makes mine look like a picnic. There's not much to divide up in my situation. The house is paid for but the total price was just a fraction compared to yours. The problem I do have is my income barely meets my expenses. I do believe if there is any way to get this done tho, I will be able to make it ok. Not great but ok. I just need to be able to get on with my life as you do. Man I am going to step the prayers for you. God can work miracles! You could use one about now. Not only for financil end of things but to get the closure and be able to move on. I find waiting one of the hardest things to do and believe me I have learned to be patient through this. Please take your own advice and stay strong. Remember, each new day brings us all closer to or goals whether we see it or not.<p>God won't bring us to it, if He can't bring us through it.

Hi All,<p>I'm still hanging in there. I had a rough couple of days. I have been in a fog myself since Friday night. <p>This whole thing is such a mess, I'm not sure anymore if I'm coming or going.<p>ITABD,<p>You right about the WS going crazy with money when they decide to go off the deep end. The do not like to live up to any of their actions or responsibilties.<p>FI,<p>I saw your other thread, I can relate to what you are saying there. You know, you really have a way of putting things into perspective. You have a way of putting things into words that make a lot of sense.<p>I'm having kind of a hard time today as well. Getting ready to go to Church, so hopefully that will help clear the head a little bit.<p>Got to go, I'll be back a little later.<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace<p>[ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>

Wallace,
Hang in there, God is not going to let you down. Don't lose heart or your faith. When I get really desperate I write out this scripture and put it on my bathroom mirror;<p>I can do all things through Christ who strengthen me. I claim it and repeat it often. You will get through this and be much stronger for it.<p>Take it an hour at a time if you have to. There have been times in my life that people said "just take it a day at a time" and I'd tell them "I can't wait till I can take it a day at a time"!<p>Prayers for you and yours.<p>I know this is asking a lot right now, but start praying FOR you W. God can work wonders in situations like this. God tells us to pray for our enemies. Right now, the way she is fighting you and all she's done, I'd say she is your enemy.
I'm not saying pray to get he back but maybe if you can pray for her God can begin to work with her to your benefit. Maybe she would soften up and wise up for long enough to have some compassion at least for the kids?? <p>I hope I have not offended you with this comment. It's nothing you probably have not already tried, but as I was typing it just came to mind to say it. Let us know how you are doing.
FI

Free Indeed,

Thank you for the scripture, and the support. I have had a pretty rough weekend.

This is all starting to really take it's toll on me.

I can't give up... even though there has been a couple of times this weekend I just wanted to walk away from it all and never look back.

I can't do that though, I have my kids to think about.

This garbage that this WWS has left me with is really getting to me.

You just would like to walk away from it all and never look back.

Thanks for the support it is appreciated.

Stay Strong!

Wallace