Wallace -<p>I agree that your story is in the horror category. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. So far STBHX is really trying to make this easy on both of us but even said the other night that he wants to make it easy for me the most. Think he still cares about me and he may still love me, but I just can't be married to the man that he has become and I think he understands that.<p>STBHX gave me the financial stuff the other night (I had already looked at on the internet). Haven't really gotten into detail. We have already split all the checking, savings accts., but I can supply information to my accounts and 401K. The problem with him submitting last 3 mos. paystubs is that he has not been paid for the last 4 weeks. Have no idea prior to that if he was getting paid or not since we have been seperated since end of February. Guess this is just another thing that we have to work through.
As far as the CS being based on the last 3 yrs. that might be my saving grace. The business was doing well until the last 6-9 months and our W-2's and Tax Returns will reflect this. <p>Got alot of ideas for the parenting plan on this site. I copied the word version on the states site and am working on editing it with the language that I feel necessary. After all it is in the best interest of the kids. <p>Need to figure out where to put the information regarding college tuition for D in all this. Plan on looking at things a little better this weekend. <p>Remember to take care of yourself and then you will be able to handle all this a little better. <p> [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Free Indeed:
<strong>I received this on an e-mail. Sometimes we want advice from everyone under the sun,(not that advice and different opinions are not good), but sometimes we need to listen to our inner voice too. Just thought it was interesting enough to share........<p>They tell the story of a mountain climber who was
eager
to conquer 22,841-foot Mt. Aconcagua, the highest mountain
in the Western Hemisphere. <p>After months of preparing, he began climbing, alone. And
as the day came to an end, he decided not to set up camp...
but to keep climbing instead.

Soon night fell with a sudden heaviness, and darkness
swallowed the mountain. There was no moon, the stars were
covered by clouds, and visibility shrunk to nothing as
the terrain turned black.<p>And as he was climbing a ridge, about 300 feet from the
top, he suddenly slipped and fell. <p>Falling rapidly, he could only see blotches of darkness
as they passed, and he felt the terror of being sucked in
by gravity. And in those panic filled moments his life
flashed before him and he knew he'd die...<p>...until he felt a jolt that almost tore him in half. <p>Yes! <p>Like any good mountain climber, he'd staked himself with
a long rope tied around his waist. And in those next few
moments of stillness, as he dangled from the rope in the
cold, dark air, he screamed "HELP ME!"<p>And a deep, quiet voice answered from the darkness...
"What do you want me to do?" <p>"SAVE ME!", he pleaded, tears streaming down his cheeks.<p>And the voice, soft and warm, answered clearly: "I will...
just cut the rope that's holding you up."<p>But he held on tighter...<p>...and the next day the rescue team found him frozen,
clinging to the rope...<p>...two feet off the ground.<p>How close are *you* to getting out of your box and gett-
ing what you want? What's holding you back? Will you
trust the voice inside, the voice of that powerful part
of you that can do most anything...<p>...and cut the rope?<p>© Pat Lynch, 2000-2002. All rights reserved.<p>Please feel free to forward this on.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hi,
feeling just like this myself,I will give no more to the marriage and my h never gave much anyway,and soon I will be free.My inner voice has been telling me the truth for years but I ignored it. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi All,


Is This A Bad Dream,

It sounds like you have all your "DUCKS" in
a row. That is good to hear.

It's hard to produce check stubs If you have not got paid. They will probably look at the combined income over the last 3 years, and make a determination if that's the case.

I have to keep updating everything, because it's taking so long to either move forward with or without my WW.

We decided to go full steam, so it may finally come to an end... hopefully sooner rather than later.


otherhalf,

Sometimes you just have to call it a day and move forward. Sounds like that is just what you are doing.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hey Wallace -
I assume you mean that you aren't waiting for WW to come to you for more money and that you aren't going to try and use a mediator. Is this correct?<p>I know it seems like every decision that we make we analyze it to death. Sometimes I think we should just go with our gut feeling and do what we think is right from the beginning. <p>STBXH just called me at work this afternoon. I was shocked [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Of course it was to find out if he could come by and pick up petition so he can go and file with the courts tomm. Told him where I left it and that S is still at home (goes to his apt. tonight) and would let him in the house. <p>Very cordial and friendly. Maybe he just needed me to tell him that I basically was moving on without him before he felt comfortable talking to me again. Communication up to this point has been very poor from his side. Didn't answer e-mails even. Who knows maybe it is relief and the satisfaction that he is getting what he wanted. Hate to tell him but he is also getting what he deserves whether he realizes it now or in 5 years down the road. Told my sister yesterday that he just doesn't realize that I was the best thing that ever happened to him. That too will come to him eventually.<p>Hang in there Wallace and I wish you luck and I will say a little prayer for you.

Is this a bad dream,
Well as usual I'm running into a problem again.
I want to move forward with the "D".
My kids on the other hand want me to wait, and let her get her attorney. They want her to spend some of her money (spend rather than collect).
They feel that she should shoulder some financial pain on her end and get an attorney and quit being a coward and come forth and end it as painless as possible.
That would be the best way to do it. But she has always liked to do things the hard way... go figure.
The attorneys would like to see her get herself an attorney, that way we could work out all of the details and call it a day. But she figures if she ignores it long enough it will just go away. In this case it won't.
She always had a habit of running from her problems. So that part of her hasn't changed.
I would like to use a mediator, but It's doubtful that will happen.
Sounds like your situation is at least able to move forward, as sad as it may or may not be.
I wish my "D" could move like yours is.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Hi everyone,
Just catching up on the goings on. I don't have a lot to report at this time. A couple of strange things happened, but that's about it.

Man, it is hard to keep up with things if you skip a day or 2 here.

My brain is tired today and I'm not even sure what's going on. Learning how to be a secretary at work. NOT for me. It's not bad,but not my job of choice. Good thing it's just for a week. Nothing against secretaries, it's just not for me.

Watched an interesting movie last night, "A Beautiful Mind". Based on a true story. I just have to have some diversion from my life once in a while.

Love, Peace and happiness to all
Free

Hello All:
First I want to apologize this is sooooo long.
Was off today so wasn't able to chat until this evening. WH filed papers with the court yesterday afternoon 6/27/02.

D and S had dinner with him last night and STBXH had a long talk with D regarding problems with curfew, respect for both of us and college.

Called me about an hour after she got home. We must have talk a good hour. Told me what he talked about with D. D and I have a hard time communicating. I told him thanks and I agreed with everything that he told her. Told him that the kids are going to play us against each other and he responded "Yeah I know so we need to work together to not let that happen".

Told me about financial things with business and asked if I would take a check this week. Told him no at first and then told him that I would take one and if he can help with 1/2 of the mortgage payment until we sell the house that would help me a lot. He said he will try the best he can.

After talking about other things he said, "you know this is the most decent conversation that we have had in a long time". Told him that I thought Tues. night went pretty well (the night he brought papers over for me). Told me that I didn't look him in the eye though. Told him that he really hurt me and I know that he is going through a lot of pain and I didn't want to see the pain in his eyes. Please don't take offense. Told me o.k. Then he said "I want to tell you how sorry I am about how I have hurt you these past 6 months. I still want to be a part of your life and I know that you told me you don't love me anymore but I care about you and your well being". I told him thank you, when I got my voice back.

That is truly the 1st time that he has given me a heart felt apology since this all started. Told him I know I said I didn't love you anymore, but I do love you as a friend, like I love my girlfriends. I just don't love you romantically anymore. Told me he didn't think I had for some time. Told him that I actually had until I went to the mountains a couple of weeks ago and did a lot of thinking and realized that I need to move on and that I can't have that type of relationship with you. I want to be a part of your life as well but I just can't have an emotional realtionship with you.

He also told me that he filed the papers and I was quite for a while. Asked if I was o.k. and I told him that it is just really hard. He told me I know it was really hard for me today to take those papers in as well.

He is out of town all this weekend and next week. Told me that if I needed anything that I should call the apt. number and leave a message and he will check them when he can. Told him to be careful and he said he would and told me to be safe.

Had a hard time sleeping last night and went to see my C today. She said that every time we take a step closer to the final part of the divorce it is going to be hard. Almost like starting over with it all again. Told me that she thought I was doing well and that she was glad that we have worked it so that we are getting along better. She said that the next step will probably affect me just as much and when we sell the house, camper, etc. that it will bring up old stuff as well. Felt better by the time I left.

The kids and I went and looked at other places this afternoon. Just a couple of places where they have new building. Everything was fine except I told S that if we get a 2 bdrm that he might have to stay with his Dad when his sister comes home from college on the weekends. Told me that I was kicking him out of his room and stomped upstairs. Told him that I haven't bought anything. Haven't even made up my mind yet on what I'm going to do. I would like you to work with me on this a little. Your sister can stay with Dad when she comes home or we will put an air bed on the floor in my bedroom. We will figure something out but we just need to take it a step at a time and don't get upset with me. I'm trying the best that I can.

Well I've rambled enough I hope everyone has/had a good weekend. Wallace, I'm glad that your relationship with D's is so close that you can talk to them about what is going on. Too bad that you WW doesn't listen to them as well. Think good thoughts and keep up your chin.

Hi,
I am thinking I will approach H and just tell him I want a D. Ask him if we can come to an agreement on settlement and draw up the papers, take them to a lawyer and him put it in legal form and file. I have no idea how he is going to react to D. Some days he acts like everything is normal here and we have no problems at all. I don't want to be married to him but I don't know if he will just agree to anything. Judging from post here, nothing seems to go smoothly or be that simple. I can never be a wife to him again, I refuse to subject myself to his controling ways.

Accoriding to him, I am the one with the faults/problems. I do nothing to please him and do not make him happy, accoring to him. Why would he even want to be with me? In some ways I feel like I'm being held hostage by a terrorist. He gets pleasure from terrorizing me. I'm not saying I have no faults, and I'm sure I have some that I am not even aware of. But one thing for sure, it would not even be fair to him for me to stay if he wanted me to because I have no intention of rebuilding this relationship. I know it is a give and take deal, but it has cost me too much.

When you learn to endure and keep your mouth shut to avoid conflict, it just goes to far and then you are enduring more and more and at some point you lose the will to care about much of anything. He is happy with no conflict but we have nothing.
I initially thought if I just backed off, expecting nothing from him he would eventually begin to make some changes himself for the betterment of the relationship, but it just seems he is content to be as long as nothing rocks his boat. I need more than this.

I need to get on with my life. My life has grown to consist of work, kids and wondering what to do next. So, I'm just going to tell him and see what happens. Sounds unfair, but I have approached him with the fact that we don't communicate, have major issues to over come etc. He still thinks I need to "learn my place" and get in it. I'm sure he means that I don't fulfill his needs when he says this but that is the extent of conversation. He cannot/will not discuss anything. He just wants to dictate, and wants me to mind him.
He has taken the one verse in the Bible about women being submissive to their husbands and made a whole new religion ot of it. He is so sure that I am the entire source of our problems, because he wouldn't be they way he is, if I would just listen to him and do as he says. We are going to on an outing with the kids and some friends tomorrow, and after that I am going to talk to him. Maybe this is what he wants, I don't know. I am even willing to let him tell everyone that he left me, take none of his retirement and money if he will just leave and help me pay for D. I really don't want to fight with him or destroy him. Does this sound unreasonable or is it a possibility?
Just pondering my thoughts and open to any advice.
Thanks,
Free

Is This A Bad Dream,

After reading your post, I was touched by what you had to say.

It is very hard to move forward knowing that it is the right thing that you need to do.

We all come to a crossroad, and I believe that you are there.

It is a time where you both reflect and then look forward. It is a time to face reality and move forward. It is a task that we know that we must endure and do.

I know three bedroom apartments are expensive in this town. Is ther anyway you can get a three bedroom apartment. It sounds like your S is feeling left out. Try to include him if you can.

The latter stages of the "D" are by far the hardest. There again, that darn reality setting in. It is hard, but you reach a point where you can't turn back. I know in my situation it is going to tear me apart... but it is something that must be done.
The pain and all the hurt that has been delivered by someone you once loved with every fiber of your being... and to watch them destroy it, you know in your heart it is time to call it a day.

I'm pleased to hear that you and your H are working things out in a mature matter.
Who knows, maybe someday you might be able to rekindle that old flame again.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Free Indeed.

Just a suggestion.

If you are going to ask him for a "D", I would try to do it in a public place... just for your own safety.

I will give you credit. At least you tried. You didn't go out and seek your satisfaction elsewhere, without first filing for "D".

You are to be admired for your willingness to try to make the marriage work.

I hate to keep repeating myself, but, you know in your heart when it is time to call it a day.

You have tried, and it just didn't work out. At least you didn't go out and have an A, you truly tried to make your marriage work... unlike so many others. You are to be admired.

Hang in there and let the Lord take you down the road that he sees fit.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>

Hey Wallace,
Thanks for the kind words. My philosophy is this;
If you are true to your own convictions and beliefs it covers a lot of areas you don't have to keep going over. Meaning I don't want to do anything I believe is wrong and I certainly don't want to do anything to jepordize my relationship with the Lord, such as an A. I'm not perfect, not even a perfect Christian, but it is my desire to take care of that relationship above and beyond everything else. When you take care of your relationship with the Lord, it can't help but automatically take care of a lot of other things in the process.

Since many people have given me the same advice, about telling H with someone around, I thought I might ask him to go to C with me or probably even better, go to see the local pastor together. We don't attend his church but he is a very loving person. Only problem is that he is 78 yrs old, and (I know H has talked to him and I had talked to him in the past )I hate to lay something like this on him at his age. If H should turn into a problem I would hate for this tired old soul to have to be the one to deal with it. That is the question I am pondering at this time, when I feel I have an answer, I will make my next move. I talked to an atty. and that was a joke. He did tell me some things I needed to know tho, and said if we did come to an agreement and didn't leave out any details that may cause problems later, we could get a kit and fill it out. He then said he would charge us $750.00 to handele it from there. I will look for a more resonable fee lawyer tho. I still feel this is the right thing to do and pray without ceasing about it. Even tho I don't want to be with him at all now, I cannot dismiss the idea that if I felt like God was telling me to stay I would have to consider it. But after 1 year of intently seeking God's will in this situation, I am still getting the same answer. I don't feel revengeful, bitter, or angry, I just want out and to have a peaceful existance when I come home. It will be tough financially, but I can do it! My one thing I have tried to do in all of this is to get over him before he leaves. I could be very wrong, but I don't want to have to deal with getiing over all the steps when he's gone. I realized a long time ago this wasn't working and after I gave it my last shot of trying to talk to him about it, I moved on, emotionally. I came to the conclusion, after grieving the loss of my marriage that perhaps I was holding out for a dream. Because in retrospect, I never had what I was greiving the loss of. Hope is a funny powerful thing, it can sustain one for a very long time. When hope is gone, you have nothing.
Take care,
Free

Good Morning All

Wallace: Thanks for your words or encouragement and understanding. I want very badly to stay his friend. I miss not being able to share things with him in my life. I said this in another post but people say that when you get a DV that it is almost like your spouse dies, but it is harder because they are still here and you just can't be with them. Yes, I fell I'm at a crossroad. My problem sometimes is that I wonder if I took the correct road tho. When WH told me that he still wanted to be a part of my life, for one minute, I wanted to think that we could work this out. Then I realized that he needs to make the move for that to happen and that is a move that I don't see in the near future. Told my Mom the other night that I'm not going to say that we are never going to work things out and get it back together. Just looks like a long shot at this point. Would really like to ask him if this was all worth it? Ruining 2 marriages, having me loose all trust in him, hurting the kids and I, loosing our friends and the life that we had built together. Still don't know that he sees it that way. The fog is not as thick but it is still there.

Son seemed better yesterday. Sat down with him and told him what I was looking at. Part of the problem with a 3 bdrm apt. is that we have a dog and a cat. At this point I don't think I'm even going to try and rent. I plan on being in this area for another 3 years (till S graduates from HS) so I might as well get the tax benefits of owning. The question will be if I can qualify.

Free -
If you can get him to go to the C with you, I think that might be a little better. Don't know what his reaction is going to be and would hate to put someone in a position that is not able to handle him. Do you have a C that you are using? I know that my STBXH was a different person when we went to the C's office. He still had the ability to lie to me and even the C couldn't tell he was doing it, but he seemed to be more professional when he was there. He was always good at putting up a good front. Who knows if you are at the C's office and tell him that you want a DV he may be shocked into trying to work things out or at least be civil about it.

You have been married about the same amount of time that we have. I know that at one time there was a man there that I loved and I try every day to think about those times. I don't fool myself into believing that none of this happened tho. Stay strong and I pray that things work out for you the way that you want them to. You have hung in there far longer than I have and I admire you for that.

Have a great Sunday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Is This a Bad Dream,
Ditto, H can really put on a show for the C or Dr's. He is so skilled a lying I know he can convince them of anything. Heck, he can almost convince me when I'v seen otherwise. I do have D and she knows everything, she has also c'ld with him several years ago. She will probablybe the best bet. He did go to the Dr. once and told her I thought he needed medication for depression and she checked his thyroid and ended up treating him for low thy. I went to her for anti dep in Jan and we discussed my situation. She told me then that she really didn't believe me that he had a problem because he was so nice when he was there. She believes me now, but now he wont go back. If he can't do that much for himself I can't help it. Maybe this will force him into seeking some kind of help, but that is not why I'm doing it. I don't know if I should be admired or admonished for staying this long. One thing for certain, no one can make these choices for us. I stay in the relationship for as long as I could see any chance and had any hope for change. There isn't any at this point. Sooooo many things have happened and continue to happen, but it is futile to hash them over and over. Someday, I may write a book. A lot of people have suggested it.
Take Care,
Free

Free Indeed,
When you told me about the 78 yr old Pastor... and I'm sorry for this... I laughed so hard... I'm still laughing as I write this.
No, I wouldn't annouce your intentions in front of the Pastor... very bad idea... I'm still chuckling over that one... please forgive me.
I would annouce your intentions of wanting a divorce in front of your "C". I would still be very careful on how you handle it though. Hope your IC is pretty good size... he may need to be when this goes down.
Is This A Bad Dream,
It's nice to hear that you still want to be friends with your H when "D" is all said and done with.
I get the feeling that you still would like to work things out with him even with the "D" pending. It appears that there are a lot of issues to be worked out before that could become a reality though. Maybe you should see, if you can break through that fog of his one more time. I'm just rambling so you can skip that part if you want to.
You know how high housing prices are out here. Buying another house would be great, if you can qualify by yourself.
I know it is none of my business, but I would try to look for maybe a rental house and try to include your S if you could.
My plan sounds pretty much the same as yours.
Stay around long enough to get the kids through school and then leave.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

OK Wallace, I'm glad I could provide you with a good laugh.

H is not going to do anything in front of Pastor or C. He has his outside image to keep up. I'v come to the conclusion that no matter where I tell him, the stuff will hit the fan when we are alone. Hopefully he will have had time to consider it tho if I do tell him in front of someone.

Everything is going great as far as he's concerned and he is be very nice to us. He actually treated me like a queen yesterday. We went with friends and took the kids to the circus. We actually had a very nice time. He anticipated my every need and was right there. His attitude was good with the kids too. He paid for lunch and the circus. We will see how long it lasts this time. I am being civil and respectful towards him but I feel like he's almost a stranger and still can't bring myself to have feelings of intimacy for him.

Oh, I'm really glad you laughed, it's good for you!
Free

Free Indeed,

Please forgive me, I meant that from my heart.
I didn't mean any disrepect, it was just the way you worded it in your post.

Please don't take any offense to what I felt at the time.

I'm pleased to hear that yout H, is hitting on all the right cylinders for today.
When that happens it just makes things a little more difficult to proceed with in your plan.

Again my sincere apologies, I meant no offense to you or what you posted.

Wallace

Moring Wallace,

Please don't feel like you need to apologize, I was not offended. It takes a lot to offend me. And if I do get offended, I don't hold a grudge. But seriously, I rarely take offence at anything someone says.

Yes it does make it diffucult to carry out my plans when he is being decent.

Gotta run, have a deadlne at work this am and this is my 3rd day being secretary. I spent most of 10 hours yesterday looking for clerical errors in other peoples paperwork. YUCK! Found them tho.
Later,
Free

Free Indeed,
Thanks for not getting upset with me.
Hope things are not getting too crazy at work for you.
It's a little slow here at work due the the 4th of July weekend.
Are you starting to rethink your plan or are you going to go through with what you have been working on?
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Hello All -
Been busy at work but wanted to check in with everyone.

Wallace - I read what you said about trying to break through the fog one more time. I have seriously thought about it but I don't know if I will be able to forgive and forget everything that he has done to me the past year (A started in May, 2001) and I know that I would never trust him the way that I used to. That was part of the problem, I trusted him empatically and he abused that trust and used it against me. At this point I don't know what I would say if he told me he wanted to try again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Another problem we would have would be the financial mess that he has gotten himself into again. Things were getting better but as we have talked about before they seem to go off the deep end with money right after the A is discovered.

Free - I take it that you didn't talk to him about DV on Sunday as planned. I think your right about the fact that he has an image to uphold. Like I said before when WH was in C's office he was the sweetest man on earth and even she couldn't see through him. I rememeber since the beginning of our marriage how all our female friends told me how lucky I was to have him for a H. I agree, I was lucky until he went into the fog and now all those female friends can't believe this is the same man that I married. Pretty sad when your family and friends notice things like that.

Take care and keep us posted, remember to do something for just yourself this long holiday weekend. My B-Day is Thursday this week. It will be celebrated with the kids, and not expecting to even hear from WH. He is going on his selfish mountain biking trip this weekend so won't be in town. How convinent!!