This is bugging me.<p>Last night when WS came home I had moved to a spare bdrm to sleep because I was upset.<p>She came in and we talked a bit. I let her know very nicely that I was upset(I told her I was disappionted and hurt; not angry ).<p>She asked me if I was coming to bed; I said no I was going to sleep in the spare rm.<p>She came in a few minutes later and tucked herself in with me. (Apparently she didn't want to sleep alone).<p>I didn't push the issue that I didn't want to sleep in the same bed w/her.<p>I get a "feeling" that she WANTS me to initiate plan "B" does this sound ludicrous to anyone.<p>Has anyone "read" that from their WS ?!!<p>It's as if she's dead-locked and CAN'T make a decision with out a push in either one direction or another.<p>OR have I not been in plan "A" long enough??<p>The problem I have w/Plan "A" is that when I make deposits in the love bank I get closer to her and then she calls or goes out with the OM and I am back at the hurt-dissapiontment stage again (the rollercoaster).<p>And I feel tentative about making anymore deposits because I don't want to get hurt.<p>Can anyone relate??<p>Thanks.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>This is bugging me.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>That's understandable. If you're anything like most of the rest of us, it's also an understatement.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>Last night when WS came home I had moved to a spare bdrm to sleep because I was upset.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>First things first: you should avoid letting her know you're upset if it's possible. It sounds like you did an excellent job of communication though, because you say she came in later and got in bed with you. She wouldn't have done that if she had felt threatened. Kudos to you, you've done very well.<p>My guess is that her climbing in with you was her way of trying to comfort you. I undertand how you really feel about it, but I think you should try to recognize that she was most likely trying to express some affection for you. That's a good sign, even though the circumstances are messy.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>I get a "feeling" that she WANTS me to initiate plan "B" does this sound ludicrous to anyone.<p>Has anyone "read" that from their WS ?!!<p>It's as if she's dead-locked and CAN'T make a decision with out a push in either one direction or another.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I hate to tell you this, but this stuff is right out of the betrayer's handbook. It's likely that she won't make a choice between the two of you until one of these things happens:

• Her affair dies a natural death
• You go to Plan B and force her hand

<p>The whole thing about Plan A is that you behave in a way that gets her to consider you an attractive alternative when the OM starts looking like a chump. If you read the case studies on this site and in the Harley books you'll see that USUALLY the affair dies out on it's own after a period of time (less than 2 years). When that happens you'll start looking pretty good to her, especially if you keep doing a good job.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>OR have I not been in plan "A" long enough??<p>The problem I have w/Plan "A" is that when I make deposits in the love bank I get closer to her and then she calls or goes out with the OM and I am back at the hurt-dissapiontment stage again (the rollercoaster).<p>And I feel tentative about making anymore deposits because I don't want to get hurt.<p>Can anyone relate??<p>Thanks.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah, we can all relate. You're not the first one to go through this, and you won't be the last. You do have a distinct advantage in that she's living with you and she's listening to you and she's trying to give you some comfort and affection. I agree with you that it's hard. It hurts like no other pain can. It's the worst thing I've ever experienced. But you can do it because you've got a much better head start than I had.<p>Personally I think you've not been in Plan A long enough. I counseled with Jennifer @ MB for about a year and I'd bet that she'd tell you the same thing. Keep up the positive attitude when you're around her, don't let her even think she's bothering you. Act like things are hunky-dory all the time whether you're with her or not. Get busy with a new hobby or new friends (male friends, don't let her even start to think you're having an affair too). Always be nice to her and never miss a chance to meet her ENs, but be happy with yourself b/c that's what's attractive. Don't mope or show anger or withdraw, that's unattractive.<p>You really are doing good. It's tough but hopefully it'll be worth it.<p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: o2bsane ]</p>

Thanks o2besane I REALLY appreciate your insight !<p>I'll try to hang on!<p>Going to get the books :
Torn Asunder
Surviving an Affair
today!<p>I KNOW I CAN'T go 2 years!

I guess I can't ***** TOO much.<p>Things have gotten better. During the months of Feb/Mar/Apr she was going to dinner and dancing with this person 2-3 times per week.
Now she only sees him once a week (of that I'm pretty sure). <p>She's gotten back to work. Her father passed away (at our hse after a 3 week sickness ) on Sept. 9, 2001.<p>She's had a hard time w/that. <p>I agree I do need to work on not acting upset when she sees him, that's very important.<p>So maybe things aren't so bad...at least we're making some progress.<p>I am fulfilling one VERY big EN - making love to her more often.<p>Didn't want to admit this but I had a problem w/Porn (Videos) the 1st 5yrs. of marriage and wasn't available sexually for her (or at least very little) which was her main complaint concerning the relationship and hurt her very badly/deeply. Hurting her that deeply will cause me pain 'till the day I die.<p>I've gone thru counseling and things are GREAT.
She is NOW my love object and NOT the movies.<p>We've been together 8yrs and making love still feels like its the beginning of the relationship.<p>So were VERY sexually compatabile and we STILL thru it all have our Chrmistry; that has NEVER gone away.<p>So I REALLY DO have to be thankful for what I have. Can't be negative and see the bad side of things all the time.<p>Peace-out!<p>TG.

How are things going, TG?

Things are going ok, thanks for askin'.<p>Wife still sees OM it's now only 1x a week.<p>Bought the book "Surviving an Affair" yesterday and I'm half way thru it.<p>I asked the WS to read it and she tentatively said ok. I will try to have her read it so we can use some of the methods to work on our marriage.<p>Seems like she's trying to move ahead with our marriage; making future plans etc.<p>Were not really talking about the affair. But I do remind her, here and there that ,that things really cannot move forward until we reconcile.<p>We can't pretend this didn't happen and just move on (I'm sure she'd like to do that - but I can't).
We need to have some kind of a plan.<p>If we do that we'll be open to more affairs - and to be honest this is pretty much it for me.<p>I wouldn't be able to deal w/ANY more affairs.
This is TOO painful.<p>Things have gotten much better but she is still seeing the OP 1x a week. (Hasnt' seen him this week yet - we've been spending a lot of time together).<p>Also the Pool company he owns is about 8mi from our house.
The book talks about relocation - should we move?? Don't know.

You're right, you aren't really working on the marriage unless you have a plan. If there's contact it's still an ongoing affair.<p>You're doing well to stay busy with her and give her some good reasons to stay away from OM.<p>Hopefully you can get her to agree to no contact, and ideally she'll send the No Contact letter. Tread lightly.

Interesting development :<p>We were talking last night and WS told me she's had contact with OM since last Thurs. ??!!<p>She told me she wants no contact with the OM.<p>I noticed that she's been leaving her cell phone at home lately (Her primary form of contact w/OM).<p>She gave me the cell and told me to keep it for awhile...and the password to get the voice mails
in case it's someone we need to call back.<p>I see this as a MAJOR step in the right direction.<p>She also told me that she's noticed the changes in me in the last few months. I had some anger issues etc. (When I got angry, whether w/her or anything else, she would withdraw - MAJOR LOVE BUSTER/LB withdrawl for her). She said this is ONE of the reasons she wants to make our marriage work - said she's not ready to give up on us.<p>The OM, of course, was pulling out all the stops -He told her he would take care of her, she wouldn't have to ever work again.<p>That I was on my "best behavior" for the last few months. That people don't change (HE's probably basing that one on his own situation - his wife hasn't changed her behavior).<p>Ya think an intelligent/rich/smooth talking guy could get a wife of his own - instead of stealing another person's wife [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WS told me last night she didn't with agree with the "people don't change" thing. Because she's seen some MAJOR changes in me the last 5+/- months.<p>I think people change if they're motivated.<p>I asked about sending a no contact letter.
Currently she said she doesn't even want to do that. She said he'll stop contacting her if she doesn't contact him?? (Don't know).
I'll keep trying (gently) for the letter.<p>Checked the msgs on the cell and there were none from OM.<p>What is my next step ?
In time should we :
1. Fill out emotional questionairre.
2. Do the Policy of Joint Agreement.<p>Shouldn't I wait 'till after her withdrawls from the OM?<p>Learned something valuable the other day:
WS 1st day of work in almost 1yr was Monday.
She was VERY apprehensive/stressed about it.
Wasn't confident she could do it anymore (She's a nurse).<p>I drove to her work. Put a card(with words of encouragement in it) and a flower on the seat.<p>Waited. Then drove up to her car and gave her a hug and asked her to go to dinner w/me.<p>She was blown away!!<p>What I learned is that : When you do something nice/considerate for your spouse when they're down/scared about something the deposit in the LB seems HUGE!!<p>Peace-out TG.. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Slight of hand and twist of fate on a bed of nails she makes me wait... <hr></blockquote>

P.S. CORRECTION TO 1ST LINE - <p>We were talking last night and WS told me she's had NO contact with OM since last Thurs. ??!!

What a great update TampaGuido. It seems like your love units in her love bank were far from depleted and now that your plan A'ing your buttisimo off, the deposits are adding up big time where it won't be long where you will out- OM the OM in her heart [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
Ya think an intelligent/rich/smooth talking guy could get a wife of his own - instead of stealing another person's wife
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Ain't it the truth brother. But now it looks like YOU can give OM a few lessons on how to pour on the smooth charm with women [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Keep up the good work.

Wow, congratulations! I'm impressed. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You've done an excellent job and it's paying off. There's still a lot to be done but it looks like you're doing well so far. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's downhill from here, but your situation looks good!<p>As far as the next steps go, here are my suggestions:<p>Keep doing what you're doing. Pour Plan A on and keep filling up her lovebank. Don't push anything at all on her. Don't ask her to do any questionaires yet, just keep meeting her ENs. When you're convinced that she's not had contact with OM for a long time (a couple of months, maybe longer) it may be time to talk about the EN forms.<p>As far as the no contact letter goes, don't push that right now. If she's willing to give you her cell phone AND the voicemail codes, she's giving you a huge amount of trust. If that's her means of contact with OM then she has shown you with her actions that she's serious. If she slips up and contacts him again (which is pretty common, so watch for it and guard your reaction to it carefully if it happens) it might be appropriate to request the no contact letter then. <p>Watch out for withdrawals and be on your absolute best behavior. She might even provoke you as a test of your new anger management skills, so watch out for that and don't fall for it.<p>Keep up the good work, as TMCM says.

I want to thank you all for your support.
This site is AWESOME. I've told many people about it!<p>The WS said something VERY interesting the other night while we were out w/friends.<p>The subject was affairs and she said, and I quote:
"They don't last, you come to your senses".<p>I thought that was very telling of where her head is right now. <p>This Plan "A" B" stuff is VERY hard to do but I think that it works.<p>Whether or not we stayed together it was/is the right thing to do.<p>That way there are no regrets: you've done EVERYTHING in your power to make the marriage work and that is a MOST admirable thing.<p>Some relationships don't work though and that's not necessarily a bad thing.<p>In that case I believe that someone's trying to tell you something. And moving on then is the right thing to do because when one door closes another one opens.<p>Here's my personal email : MDinovotpa@yahoo.com.
If you folks are ever in Tampa, FL please look me up we'll have dinner!<p>Peace... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Well I'm back. Don't know how I got here again no offense but I wish I wasn't.

My wife told me today she wants to end it (our marriage) and that she's tired of trying.

She says she can't seem to get over the resentment over what's happened.

I (always optimistic) think we CAN get through it.
We've been doing GREAT since my last post 6/12/02.

We have become closer as friends and our overall relationship has (I thought) moved ahead.

I'm hurting BAD over this; don't quite know what to do; should I move out ?

She seems adamant but this appears to be, from my perspective, a quick decesion on her part...

Help!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>Well I'm back. Don't know how I got here again no offense but I wish I wasn't.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No offense taken. I'm sorry to see you back here too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>My wife told me today she wants to end it (our marriage) and that she's tired of trying. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm. I felt a disturbance in the Force and wondered about you. I'm sure sorry to hear this news. I thought you did a great job with Plan A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>She says she can't seem to get over the resentment over what's happened. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Resentment? What's she got to feel resentment about? Unless you're hanging this over her head and beating her with it she ought to be loving life. What's been going on? What's the status of Plan A? How are you doing with LBs?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>I (always optimistic) think we CAN get through it.
We've been doing GREAT since my last post 6/12/02.

We have become closer as friends and our overall relationship has (I thought) moved ahead.

I'm hurting BAD over this; don't quite know what to do; should I move out ? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Moving out is probably not your best move right now. IMHO the best thing you can do is see if you can get her to talk to Jenn or Steve at MarriageBuilders. If she won't, then do it on your own.

If the reality is that you've done an awesome Plan A all this time, it might be appropriate for you to get set up for Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>She seems adamant but this appears to be, from my perspective, a quick decesion on her part...

Help!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you, based on what you've said here.

I won't kid you: if she's made up her mind, the reality factor says you may be looking at an exercise in futility. I hope that's not the case.

It's also possible that she has either renewed contact with the OM or she has found another one. If she has done either of those things she's gonna be severely fog-bound.

Your odds will be best if you keep the LBs to an absolute minimum - as in zero - and keep on the Plan A track until either 1) she recommits or 2) you go to Plan B.

I agree with o2bsane, it sounds like your W has been sucked back into another A with OM (or different OM) and that is why she is telling you she wants a divorce. But even if her A with OM hasn't been restarted, just contact with OM is enough to set her back to square one with regards to her withdrawl from him. I'd follow o2bsane's recomendations.

You might also want to consider letting her know that you love her very much and want nothing more than to make her happy, and that you will not stand in her way. Then stop and leave her alone to think about your words and do not mention the divorce or the idea of divorce to her again. If she really wants it badly enough then let her do the filing.

If you still want to be married to her, then prepare yourself for another rough ride on the emotional rollercoaster. We're going to be here to offer you barf bags when you feel the motion sickness of the rollercoaster coming on.

<small>[ September 16, 2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Thanks for the good advice , once again.

I don't think that she's seeing the OM again.
Been keeping up on things and we're always together; so I don't think there's much opportunity there for him, could be wrong.

The resentment/lack of trust comes from my prior addiction/troubles w/porn. 1st 5 yrs of marriage was spent watching them (Not giving her the attn. she needed). She caught me 2/99 and then seemed to get past that incident.

Then I screwed up again - 9/2001 and immediately got some therapy and I'm recovering nicely (We're making love often and it was GREAT) so things were cool there.

But today she said she can't trust me and can't get over the hurt caused by me watching those movies.

Been doing a GREAT plan A since 3/2002 and we seemed a lot closer and the friendship grew and everything's been great till today.

This is a total suprise to me!

She's been battling the flu the past 2 weeks along with some bi-polar depression problems.

Yesterday morning she seemed manic (overly perky) and last night she began crying for no apparent reason (Or a reason she wasn't telling me).

Then this morning she said that she needed to get some things done and I said ok I'll go and do whatever I was going to do.

I asked her if "we were ok"? And that's when she told me that she wanted out. The resentment/trust thing along with the fact that she's tired of trying. (Which we really haven't had any therapy to speak of) so I don't know why she's "tired of trying".

She said that if I never asked her if we were ok she would have just gone on w/things as they were.
Which seems to me to be totally illogical (Spock)
and w/o reason.

We have literally had months of a VERY close and loving friendship & relationship so I am totally shocked and dumbfounded today.

I've been treating her like a princess (Maybe that's the problem).

She's talking about splitting things up - the posessions ; houses ; etc. like she's just going full steam ahead with here decision.

So yea. I may have to move out and let her file.
She also took off her wedding rings ; if that means anything.

Thanks again I'll try to hang in there!

Ok, this makes more sense. Did you notice that it's been exactly a year since 09/2001? My guess is that she set a self-imposed deadline last time she caught you. Here it is, a year later, and she thinks it's over.

All I'm saying is that I think you're dealing with a woman who has probably made up her mind to go. It's up to you to change her mind, and it's gonna take a while if it's going to happen at all. Dig in, you're going to be here a while. Like the Snickers commercials: "Not going anywhere for a while?"

So here's what I'd suggest you do, in this order:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get on the phone with Jenn or Steve</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Play nice all the time - no LBs</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do everything you can to meet the ENs she'll let you meet</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't fight her on the divorce process. Don't help her, either. Don't argue or cajole or try to persuade her to slow down. Just respond lovingly if she brings it up. I'd also say that unless you want to leave, don't. Let her leave. Let her file. Let her arrange for her lawyer, her mediation, etc.
If you're prone to anger, do what you need to do to protect her from that. Don't let her see you angry, don't even let her see you sad. Don't give in to the temptation to beg or cry or whine or blame.

And call Jenn or Steve, did I mention that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks O2bsane ! Your input is always GREATLY appreciated.

We had a big LB last monday ( Which was the 1 yr anniversary of her dad's death - Of which I am very ashamed that the situation got that far)
Anyway ; There hasnt' been ANY lb's since May (2002) we've been getting closer.

I am trying to fulfill her EN's (and I think I've been pretty successful, so far).

This is all just totally & completely unexpected!
The fact that she was going to move forward (if I didn't memtion anything ) tells me she DOES want to move forward and is having problems with the Trust/resentment issues.

She hung out w/her friend last nite. The friend slept over (female friend from work).

Before bed she came in and gve me a very warm/loving kiss on the cheek.

Then this morning she called me at work and left a msg. She said she just wanted to tell me that she hopes that I have a good day.

Last nite I didn't show any sadness when we spoke & I told her I would sleep in our son's room.

She had a very sad look on her face when I said this??? Don't know what this means.

I have a VERY intense gut feeling that she doesn't wnat to go thru w/this , so I'll hang on.

she's made an appt. w/our therapist for Monday to discuss the resentment/trust thing.

I'm gonna make one for this week if i can.

Once again THANKS!
This site is the GREATEST!

Thanks also CoffeeMan You've also given VERY good advice !

Also : Was reading things on BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

I am wondering if she suffers from this?

She pushes down inside instead of confronting and working thru problems - hoping that by pushing them deep inside they will go away ; out of site out of mind.

I also usually get ALL the blame when something goes wrong : I AM ALWAYS TO BLAME.

She doesn't seem to take responsability for her part in this - And when she does it's always limited. i.e. I did this because you did that - type of thing. "I was just protecting myself."
rationale??

Any comments ??