Hello,<BR>I have been married 14 years to a "Christian" man, but it is not a marriage...it is bondage, control, abuse, neglect. In the last three years I have learned of abuse and specifically "spiritual/religious abuse". It is a relief to finally know what to call this painful life. <P>Several Christian counselors told me to separate, and some say to just divorce and never look back. I never thought those were options for a Christian woman and I hung on to hope God would do a miracle in my spouse. <P>In the past month, however, I have come to the realization I have to go, but my spouse is fighting this and cutting me down more than ever, telling me I'm seeing elephants on the wall that don't exist. I have suffered, read, journaled and been counseled enough to know reality he denies. <P>Yet, getting out is hard. Once I dealt with my theology, I still hate to put the kids through the pain of separation, I will need employment outside the home for the first time since I married and to find a place to live. I feel overwhelmed. My esteem and confidence are suffering from neglect and abuse. I am afraid of who else will see me vulnerable and try to control. I never dreamed any Christian man could be so damaging. I've read that such a man is hard to detect before marriage, but I still feel like a failure at the most important decision of my life. I worry about having to tell my parents and other relatives that my marriage is a fraud. My parents will probably treat me with shame.<P>Has anyone else here experienced this?<BR>How do I leave? I must get out soon....<BR>I'm sinking again.<P>Thanks for your response.<BR>~Renae<BR>

Renae,<P>Think of your children. Do you want them to experience the same sort of abuse that you tolerate? <P>Here's a web site on Spiritual Abuse <BR> <A HREF="http://www.sosa.org/saas.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sosa.org/saas.html</A> <P>I suggest you also contact your local YWCA, and join a support group for abuse. You can also get help there in finding work and a home.<P>H

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Renae:<BR><B>Hello,<BR>I have been married 14 years to a "Christian" man, but it is not a marriage...it is bondage, control, abuse, neglect. In the last three years I have learned of abuse and specifically "spiritual/religious abuse". It is a relief to finally know what to call this painful life. <P>Several Christian counselors told me to separate, and some say to just divorce and never look back. I never thought those were options for a Christian woman and I hung on to hope God would do a miracle in my spouse. <P>In the past month, however, I have come to the realization I have to go, but my spouse is fighting this and cutting me down more than ever, telling me I'm seeing elephants on the wall that don't exist. I have suffered, read, journaled and been counseled enough to know reality he denies. <P>Yet, getting out is hard. Once I dealt with my theology, I still hate to put the kids through the pain of separation, I will need employment outside the home for the first time since I married and to find a place to live. I feel overwhelmed. My esteem and confidence are suffering from neglect and abuse. I am afraid of who else will see me vulnerable and try to control. I never dreamed any Christian man could be so damaging. I've read that such a man is hard to detect before marriage, but I still feel like a failure at the most important decision of my life. I worry about having to tell my parents and other relatives that my marriage is a fraud. My parents will probably treat me with shame.<P>Has anyone else here experienced this?<BR>How do I leave? I must get out soon....<BR>I'm sinking again.<P>Thanks for your response.<BR>~Renae<BR> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>God is moving in your life. Be still and let him continue what he has begun. I promise you will see the results soon. Remember what the scriptures say, "God is working every thing out for the good in those who love him". Keep the faith.<P>

Thanks so much for the responses and support!!

Harlequin99, how do you know about spiritual abuse and the sosa.org website? (I've been in touch with sosa for some time.)<P>I am not sure why most people, including counselors, who hear "spiritual abuse" immediately suggest separation or divorce. Is it really more impossible to conquer in a marriage compared to all the other issues affecting marriage? <P>I keep wishing a pastor could come to our house and lovingly confront and instructmy spouse about his faulty belief system, to wake him up to reality of what's going on.<BR>Maybe it's just wishful thinking.<P>Please tell me what you know! Thanks! <BR>~Renae

Hello Renae,<BR>You have been a great support for me. It is so sad to read about the situation you are in.<P>It seems as if through all the years of trying, your husband just doesn't seem to get it. Have you been to counselling together?<P>It is very distressing to have to admit that you're giving up, especially after giving it your all for so many years. Somehow it seems as if it's our fault - that we didn't try hard enough, or long enough, or didn't do the right things. It's hard not feel like a failure - but you're not. Your husband is the one you did not understand and meet your needs.<P>Does your husband realize that you are at the point of leaving?<P>Renae, you should take care of yourself first. Do not worry about what others will say or think - your parents, friends, etc. Most probably, they are more aware of what's going on and will be relieved.<P>Wishing you the best. Take care.<P>

Thank you, Lonelywife!<BR>Over a year ago he finally agreed to counseling, but only if he picked one. I was so hopeful!! After six sessions, she told us to separate, and no explanation given. My spouse refused to see her again. (He wants to keep control of me.)<P>In Dec., he said he would see one who specialized on our issues, but never followed through. <P>By April I felt myself at the end of my rope. Then, in an angry outburst about an issue unrelated to me, he gave me a close-fisted punch in the jaw and posed to do more if I hadn't escaped. I was in shock! I scheduled three appointments,and told him if he didn't come to counseling and the marriage seminars going on in our area at that time, I'd have to soon separate. He didn't go. The counselor heard "spiritual abuse" and said don't come back to me, I'm too expensive; go to the abuse support group and get out. I can't get to that group--spouse won't allow it, kids and business to care for, etc.<P>Getting out isn't easy. Lots of other circumstances conflicting it too. I've been trying to get backed-up business done and get our old house ready to move back into, but things keep happening so I can't get done. Also fighting emotional exhausation, energylessness, and some days don't get much accomplished.<P>Few people know what I'm going through. The ones who do know some of it, told me to leave him and expected I can follow through on my own. I am alone without emotional support or help of any kind. Spiritual abuse and the other abuses happen to me when I'm alone with him or the kids here only....that's why it's so crazy-making because nobody here to validate me and sometimes I doubt myself, I deny--this can't be happening to me! <P>Finally I'm not in denial. I no longer feel committed to him. I quit sex and refuse to attend his church anymore,& he hasn't forced it fortunately. He knows he's lost control now and I'm only here to get work done and get organized to eventually leave. I've tried everything to fix this; I've given it all to God.<P>Please pray for me.<BR>~Renae<P> <P>

Renae<P>Could you be more specific and define what you term "spiritual abuse"? I have never heard that term.<P>Also, you say your husband is a "Christian" man.....what is your definition of a "Christian"?<P>I am recently divorced (March 14th this year) after nearly 33-1/2 years of marriage. I was separated 4 years before the divorce and during this time, I allowed the Lord to deal with me in issues that caused the break-up.<P>Look forward to your response.<P>[censored] from Texas

[censored],<BR>I hope you are finding healing and renewal<BR>after the loss of your spouse. God isn't finished with any of us yet and has a hope and future for us.<P>Spiritual abuse is a complicated subject (sorry for this long explanation) and you have to be very careful not to misuse the idea. But you know, every person operates out of a belief system they carry with them every day and act out with others. Some people have false beliefs, even about God, the Bible,and how we should relate to others. Even subtle misunderstandings of scripture can cause great harm to people and relationships. <P>What kind of Christians?--We are "born-again" Christians, both of us led to Christ at young ages (10 & 16) by the Fundamentalist Independent Baptists, who are aggressive about soul-winning. My spouse continued with this church type, which I fear to cut down because they are great in many ways.<P>My spouse's and my spiritual walks were different after our conversions, but when we met, we "connected" immediately, we both grew up on farms, etc. I highly respected his Bible training, years of ministry, and political involvement. I wanted to do ministry too and my spouse's church welcomed me in. (The most dedicated hearts to God can get easily sucked into spiritually abusive systems or with spiritually abusive people.)<P>Shockingly, just recently my spouse told me that marriage is for doing ministry. I realize his motive was not to find companionship and develop intimate mutually satisfying, growing relationship, but only to have someone to work with in the church and he would dominate me and get his needs met. I told him you have to have the relationship solid, so you can serve God together. He says Christianity is "do". I say, yes in part, but Christianity is first "relationship" (God restores relationship with man, shows us what love is, and we love each other in marriage and<BR>serve God and others in love.)<P>Back to abuse: All forms of abuse involve a "power-over" mindset. There isn't normal marital conflict and resolving it; instead the interaction is for the purpose to control the spouse.<P>A controller does not know how to handle negative feelings or emotions in general so abuses someone close to him (verbally, emotionally, psychologically, physically, sexually, or spiritually) If he can't deal with his own feelings, he can't deal with a spouse's feelings either,grow himself or in intimate relationship. This is the problem!!<P>Spiritual abuse often involves other types of abuse with it. It is basically using one's authority, position of power, religious beliefs or twisted/distorted use of the Bible to control or manipulate another person into doing things you want them to do. This is the case in my marriage, while other people are spiritually abused by cults, mainline denominational or other churches, church leaders. Even pastors' wives have been abused! The effects of S.A. are similar to all other abuse (depression, energylessness, helplessness, etc.), except that in addition, many feel their faith eroding away, their creativity lost, and they have trouble connecting in any church, etc. The website <A HREF="http://www.sosa.org" TARGET=_blank>www.sosa.org</A> supports people in recovery.<P>I have read that the more conservative/ fundamentalist a church is, the higher number of abusive marriages. These churches just tell the abused wife if she submits more the abuse will stop, when in fact it gets worse.<BR>There's a book I've not read yet called "Christian Men Who Hate Women" by Margaret Rinck. <P>An online counselor familiar with Spiritual abuse says it's a common problem in Christian marriages.<P>My situation is about the theology of law versus grace too. Very legalistic, law-based churches and people can be inflexible, rigid, critical of others, often lack in grace, compassion for human needs, lack of authenticity but put on a religious front to others. Ministry is getting people saved only, not helping the hurting people, relationships, etc. Christianity is about principles and rules, not dealing with feelings. Feelings need to be suppressed, controlled, denied to be more spiritual, they say. (I disagree! I say God gave us feelings for our happiness as well as indicators that a problem exists and we need to grow! Feelings need to be dealt with in relationships!) <P>Key books: The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, also Families where Grace is in Place, also Tired of Trying to Measure Up--all by Jeff Vanvonderen; Healing Spiritual Abuse by Ken Blue. I also found some tapes available through David Rodriguez Pastor & President of KBC (www.kbc.org) in Louisiana and also Pastor David Johnson at Church of the Open Door in Minneapolis. <P>~Renae<P>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited July 21, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited July 21, 2000).]

Renae:<P>Boy....do I have somethings to share with you! I can really identify with you..we are 'kindred spirits'.<P>Please don't take this wrong and if you are not comfortable with it, let me know; but I wuold love to e-mail you rather than take up space here.<P>My e-mail address is: dickt@ecsintl.com<P>Let me just say this, the thing that brought the end to our marriage was that my wife thought ministry was more important than marriage. She too believed marriage was for ministry.<P>No...Christianity is not "do" we are human beings, not human doings! I am currently reading the book on "....families where grace is in place"..but the book that totally changed my life is called "GRACE WALK".<P>I am being set free from legalism and the theology of "we have to do something for God", I have learned to be open, honest, transparent and vulnerable. <P>I was a legalistic, controlling Pharisee for years/years and was guilty of sexual, emotional, verbal and financial abuse (to my former wife).....but I had never heard the term "spiritual abuse".<P>Have you ever heard of Joyce Meyer? Her message/ministry has totally revolutionized my life.<P>What turned me around and put me on the path I am on now was back in 1995 when I was in China and the Lord spoke to me and said: "I am more interested in what I can accomplish IN you, rather than what I can accomplish THROUGH you".<P>Up to this time, I had given little or no thought to my inner life, sanctification and was totally absorbed with "externals" (or doing).<P>The quality of what God accomplishes "through" us will always be based on the quality of what He has been able to accomplish "IN" us.<P>Sad but true..many hide behind the mask of ministry and find all their worth and value in what they "do". This is why when Jesus said to those who had done all these great things in His Name...."depart from me, I never KNEW you".<P>The greek word for "knew" is the same word used by Mary when she found out she was going to have a child. She said she had never "known" a man. It means intercourse.<P>So, what Jesus said was "I never had spiritual intercourse with you, I never had intimate relations with you".<P>So many in the church, like me for so many years; know ABOUT Jesus.....are even born-again; but don't KNOW Jesus!<P>Anyway...if you feel you can e-mail me; I will have more time/space to share things with you.<P>Blessings upon you!<P>[censored] from Texas

Hi [censored]! (& other ones who asked about my experience):<P>[censored], You have quite a story of deliverance from bondage into freedom! PRAISE GOD! Yes, I've heard Joyce Meyer. I'm currently reading Swindoll's The Grace Awakening.<P>This will be a LONG post--Sorry I don't know how else to say it!<P>[censored], my spouse isn't completely like his church, but actually criticizes legalism, lack of love there. He's quit, to go to other churches for periods of time but always goes back to his old church (so ingrained in him-- they are the ONLY RIGHT GROUP). <P>Yet, though he criticizes others, he can't see that he needs to fight legalism/lack of love/grace INSIDE himself & how he treats his wife, kids, and others! He's had a few shocking "awakenings"...<P>Once,last fall he found 2 papers where I had spilled out my pain from incidents where he had misapplied the Bible & misjudged me harshly... Knowing how he hates such journaling I was scared, cringed expecting more judgement, but he remorsefully said I was right and I must do whatever it takes to heal, that he is terrible to treat me like that! WOW!!!!I felt understood by him for the first time--Hope renewed! Next day he nullified the whole thing, said it was Satan, and went back to his old ways. I was DEVASTATED!!!!! <P>You see, the church has certain beliefs that my spouse takes to extremes. Examples:<P>1. Church believes in IMMEDIATE OBEDIENCE to God when you know something is right. Spouse took that idea, misapplied it to our new relationship, saying this is right, GOD'S WILL, SO MARRY ME IN 3 MONTHS (4 mths from time we met to wedding)!! <BR>I waited 2 years,and over the years he has scolded me many times that because I didn't marry him right away, I am rebellious and we are suffering the consequences. He still believes this! THIS IS-- SPIRITUAL ABUSE !!! <P>2. Church view of heirarchy/authority gives men rule. Spouse RULES! Demands trust, respect, obedience. Preached so hard once how he rules the home, kids were crying. Demands EXTREME WIFE SUBMISSION quoting scripture. <P>I was a pleaser,very submissive from my home background, so to be hounded about submission for years has been terribly damaging. I kept wondering why I couldn't please this Godly man!! Now I know Spouse is about power and control. (It recently dawned on me, he has been the one lacking submission!!, for the Bible calls for MUTUAL submission, and he hasn't done his part!!!!! I now have the courage to tell him this.)<P>I was supposed to be identity-less, exist as an extention of him, express things as he does, meet all his needs (duty), follow all his rules, even uncommunicated ones, AGREE with all his perceptions, (or he calls me a liar or rebellious ), no partnership in decisions, function on his time schedule, immediately obey his commands, NO DISCUSSION, NO OBJECTIONS, NO QUESTIONS. I spent the last couple years trying to grow out of miserable codependency, depression, fighting his opposition to get out of the "enmeshed relationship".<P>3. Church is anti-Christian psychology, anti-counseling, anti- self-help books (only read KJV Bible, biographies of preachers, etc.), anti-emotions just "be strong" & no allowance for the individual growth process, grief, etc. Such process is viewed as spiritual weakness, even shamed!!<P>When our baby died and others, he spent years in intense grief not knowing how to handle it but by anger, abuse and draining me, and dropped out of his church (Church is not viewed as a place to heal & rest around loving people. He said he quit because he couldn't work and they don't care!)<P>Spouse madly opposes my Christian book reading--calls it Satanic!!!! He cuts off all opportunities for personal growth. Won't read, go to seminars or anything to help build marriage. <P>To him, close relationships, support groups, counseling, etc are EVIL GOSSIP. <BR>Not only can I not be authentic,open, with my spouse (cuts me off) but he tries to prevent my communication with others for<BR>growth too! I'm not a superficial person. I'm dying inside from all the pain of our marriage & other circumstances, burnt out from constant work with no life, recreation.<P>Spouse is external only, seems to be no inner life to share & grow intimately with. I didn't know anyone was like this!!!! Once he found a note defining intimacy that I had copied from the computer, and he got severely angry! "YOU STOP THIS INTIMACY STUFF!! YOU GO READ YOUR BIBLE!"<P>Numerous times he's said, "YOU NEED TO GET ALL YOUR NEEDS MET IN GOD!!! DON'T LOOK TO ME!!!!!" (But I must always meet all his needs).......HELP, DR. HARLEY!!!!!<P>Other behaviors:<P>1. Frequently, I get mercilessly criticized, shamed, blamed, motives misjudged (very painful).<P>2.He uses anger to control. Threatens....<P>3. Seems constantly angry. Quick tempered. (some from burn out working so much, but as he once told me, "GOD EXPECTS US TO BURN OUT FOR HIM. THE REASON YOU GET DEPRESSED--YOU JUST NEED TO WORK HARDER!)<P>4. Rigid, narrow-minded,inflexible, Defensive, vindictive, scapegoating.<P>5. Accuses me of having a "bad attitude and being unsaved" when I get emotionally hurt and depressed by his mistreatment. He denies he's done anything wrong.<P>6. "EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE MY WAY!!! he's repeatedly scowled. Over the years, increasingly, even the house is his mess and I'm supposed to leave it all where it is. This makes it impossible to have guests over. It's driving me nuts!! As long as things are workable for him, it doesn't matter how I or the family are inconvenienced, our needs, feelings, etc. Problems go on for years unresolved, I mean MAJOR disruptions of our lives too!<P>7. About six mths ago I showed him a list of ways people hurt other's personalities and pointed out what he does to me. Response-- "You're unsaved! A real Christian doesn't get depressed but enjoys persecution!" (No concept of relationship skills!!..only religious thinking.) <P>8. Of course "the don't talk rule" and "don't feel your feelings rule" too. During first half of marriage, he would sense I might bring up a negative or anything he didn't feel in the mood to discuss,and he would firmly preach,<BR>"CRUCIFY YOUR FEELINGS!!!!!" <BR>Before we married, he said he believed in being "real", but marriage is--repress emotions, nothing gets talked out for me, but I must always listen to him!!<P>9. Kids & I must dress as he wants, but he will not please me with his appearance at all. If I even attempt to ask, he severely rebukes me. Eight years ago he made a major change that TOTALLY DISGUSTS and EMBARRASSES me. One reason he's doing it is to "rebel" against his church's strictness on appearance, for he says appearance does not matter! While that may be true spiritually, he doesn't realize what he's doing to his wife's desire for him!<P>As long as he's in control, I'm supposed to be fine.<P>Get the picture?<BR>I can e-mail.<P>Talk to you later, Lord willing.<BR>God bless you,<BR>Renae<P><p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited July 23, 2000).]

Need to vent! Frustration overload! He keeps on hurting me! I just finished pacing the floor and crying. <P>Spouse dumps "garbage" on me tonight just as I was at peace and ready to sleep. He did this last night too. So here I am at 2 a.m. trying to cool down!! Actually this is a pattern. It is cruel. He has no respect that I need rest tonight, but that is just part of all the disrespect he demonstrates to me.<P>Just cuz I'm standing my ground with him, he angrily snarls, "you just want to be the boss!" (You can see from this, all he thinks of is POWER and whose got it, not both of us sharing responsibility to communicate in relationship and work together for satisying solutions workable for all of us.)<P>Just cuz I want some dialogue about stuff being decided, thinking through the pros and cons of various potential decisions on matters doesn't mean I want to be boss! I told him that, and he said nothing in response. He thinks in extremes and guilt-trips me!!! I'm so tired of the mind-games!<P>It goes to show again he doesn't know me at all. I am not a boss type person. I'm tired of him falsely defining who I am and what my motives are! He's tries to destroy my integrity.<P><BR>"Don't blame me for causing your depressions!<BR>Women your age go through that, I know."<BR>FALSE!!! Tonight, after he dumped the garbage, he left the room, then came looked back in the room 10 min. later, seeing me pace the floor, crying and frustrated. Can't he see what he does to me? Can't he wake up and see what a jerk he is?!!!!!!!<P>Last night he said that "people on the internet are making you selfish! You will answer to God for tearing this family apart." <P>He just doesn't like it that I am not giving in to all his selfishness and excessive power. Friends, you are not to blame either; he's always got to have someone to blame to get the focus off himself.<P>The separation is coming because he is a Control freak and refuses to nurture relationship!!!! He's breaking the family because he refuses to grow. <P>I guess what hurts me more than his words is his anger, his snarling face, loudness, disrespect, his body posture that says I am superior and I don't have to listen to you. He also told me you have no right to suggest anything to me because it's all going to be the way I say.<P>There was so much said and unsaid but it all hurts. I feel so sick inside ...~Renae<P>

Renae,<BR>It sounds as though you are a very level headed person and know what you want in a relationship and in GOD. I myself have been tested by GOD as I am on a remote tour for 1 year in Korea away from my W and Children. This is very difficult for me. My W of 14 years is even more beautiful to me than ever and I could never seek divorce from her. ON the flip side though, I have never only heard in the movies situations like yours. He sounds like he could be very dangerous to you because of his self-righteous beliefs. You do need to depart this situation before you make yourself crazy. The world is open for you. Your messages are very intutive and smartly written, I think you can only do better. May GOD bless you and your children.

Renae:<P>I won't even try to respond here to your latest posts. <P>Can you e-mail me? At the end of your post, you said "I can e-mail" but didn't give your address.<P>Did you mean to say "I can't e-mail?" Please respond back to me and let me know if you can't e-mail, then I will attempt to post back here to you.<P>I shared your story with my fiance this week-end...boy I wish you could talk to her.<BR>I do not know where you live...can you share at least what state you live in?<P>Look forward to your response.<P>[censored] from Texas

Hi [censored],<P>I'm posting here because e-mail isn't working today...need some repairs done.<BR>Otherwise, Yes, we CAN e-mail... <BR> <BR>However, Spouse's habit is to dismantle the computer occasionally to cut off "GOSSIP" support and finding "SELFISH" self-help information. Once it was possible for me to re-assemble, but most of the time this cuts off my ability to communicate for weeks until he softens his heart and puts it back together. <P>So if I do not respond to you, just know he's CONTROLLING again, and don't take it personal that I'm upset with something you've written. I may not have read it at all! <P>(8/10--deleted my location & e-mail address<BR>from this letter) <P>Please write, it would be good to hear from you! Thank you for your time in writing, caring concern, and prayers!<BR> <BR>~Renae<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited August 10, 2000).]

Thank you for reading my LONG post and responding, US-GI! Just knowing someone is listening to me helps me not feel alone and isolated.<P>What's really helped me understand my situation is Patricia Evan's books on Verbal Abuse. She says people like my spouse operate in a different reality/mindset of power-over. Reason I couldn't understand him for so long was because I operate from personal power and relationship-mindset like most normal people do. <P>How would a situation like this turn out in the movies?! Hopefully a miracle happens of some kind and she lives "happily ever after"??!!! <P>~Renae <P>

Renae<P>I will try your e-mail later and I will also respond here.<P>It's just now I'm snowed under and I want to give some time/thought to my response to your latest post...<P>Just let me say this: have you ever heard of Dr. Ed Cole who wrote MAXIMIZED MANHOOD? I'll talk to you about that later.<P>Bless you....<P>[censored] from Texas

Hello Renae,<BR>Wow! You deserve a gold medal! How did you put up with such abuse for 14 years?<P>How many children do you have Renae? How do your children feel about their father? and about your marriage? Is separation an option?<P>I pray for you that things do work out. I always believed in fairytales and miracles. Maybe that's why I'm so disappointed my marriage isn't the fairytale I always dreamed about.<P>Please take care Renae. Let me know how things are going.

Yes, Lonelywife, separation is what I'm pushing for right now, because I need peace from his verbal abuse.<P>The more I detach inside me over the past year, the more of myself is coming back to life. I need to fully recover,though, get healthier emotionally for myself and kids.<BR>I can't recover when he keeps dishing out more pain. I think he's finally realizing I'm not giving in on this. <P>Some time ago, I had told him I need to know before Aug. 1st where the kids and I can live, so we are ready for the school year.<BR>Now he offered our current house, which totally shocked me. But he knows it's best for the kids, and for me in helping to finish up business (which could take many months). He would have to do all the business alone if he made me move out now to get an apartment and employment right away. <P>Our 2 daughters (13,10 yrs old), love their father very much; it will be hard on them to have us separate, and this is what's kept me hanging in here too long. <P>They are fearful of his anger, and have tried to prevent me from "talking back" to him so as not to further irritate him. <P>It's been hard to know what to do, to show them a wife who says nothing and just accepts the treatment or one who stands up for herself and won't let him disrespect her. I've tried both. I'm afraid if I don't separate, they will marry someone like him and will not know when to quit taking the abuse. <P>I wish my mother could have stood up more to my dad....that was spiritual abuse too.<BR>But I understand she could not. I have the Lord, an education, and have lived on my own, so separation is easier for me. Maybe I need to break this "generational" thing and educate my daughters so they don't fall in the same trap. <P>[censored], when you get time, tell me about that book. I often wonder how much of Spouse's behaviors are not only due to religion but just a "man" thing that I the female can't comprehend. Like, do I expect his inner life to operate like mine? <P>Other factors also influence why my spouse is so over-reactive. Like low self-esteem contributes to his need to control. <P>Also, many highly stressful years in business definitely brings frustration and anger outbursts. Like many men, he is very "one direction" focused...business is constantly on his mind; but can't a man learn to shut it off and relate personally with his wife, etc.??? Why should I have to feel like only his employee and a mere sex partner? And with his verbal abuse, I would never choose to work for an employer like this! In short, he's got to change if he ever wants reconcilliation.<BR>~Renae<BR> <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited July 24, 2000).]

Hello Renae,<P>Since you have mentioned separation to your husband, has that scared him into action?<P>Hopefully, he will now realize the pain and suffering he has caused you and your children.<P>It is dreadful that the dreams we have of a fairytale wedding end up being shattered to pieces. Why is it so hard? It really doesn't take that much to make us happy! All we need is attention and affection!<P>With my husband, I sometimes feel like just an employee, not even a sex partner (no sex in over 3 years). And that's even when I'm making more than twice what he is! I really don't need him to survive in this world but it is nice to have someone to cuddle with at night and someone to go out with at times.<P>I wish you the best. Please keep us informed of how things are going with you Renae. Take care.