Oy.<P>Hummingbird, I have no business butting in on this thread, because I have never been in your shoes. But I live in the same county as you and I so I feel obligated to put my $0.02 in. Go figure.<P>Have you read "facing choices"'s profile? If not, please read it. Then read her recent threads to see what happens when you keep in touch with OM.<P>Counseling or no, as long as you keep contacting OM, you are NOT on your way to recovery.<P>OK. I'm going to be brutal now. So if you don't want to hear this, stop reading.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>His wife will never be me and he knows<BR> his life will never be would it could be without us and our world<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And what is your world? Sneaking around on the sly? No, his wife is NOT you. His wife is the one who lives with the day-to-day grind of life. The one who puts up with him farting in bed, stealing the covers, forgetting to mail the gas bill, leaving the seat up, and the myriad of little annoying things people do when living together that doesn't happen when you tryst for a few hours in a hotel or a parking lot.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We are a perfect match and I am everything he's ever dreamed and wanted in a woman, made to his specifications, the most beautiful woman to him and always will be<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And I am the queen of Rumania. Don't you remember in the early days of dating your H, how utterly perfect he seemed to be, how those things that drive you crazy now just seemed too adorable for words? Affairs are like those early days. But that isn't real and doesn't last. How do you know your H doesn't feel that way about you?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He said it's not right to have me wait for him but if counseling didn't work, he would let me know.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, ain't that sweet of him. So he too is counting the days till he can say to his wife, "Sorry, it didn't work, now I'm outta here." And there you'll be, waiting with open arms. Horse manure! He's not working on his marriage and you're not working on yours. And BTW, what kind of gall does this guy have assuming you'll be waiting around? He sounds like a putz to me.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He know he will always have regrets and I will always have a big piece of his heart, the center.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, he may always have regrets, because he'll never know what would have happened. OTOH, if he really works on his marriage, he may have only regrets that he strayed and that it took him so long to wake up. This is what's called a LINE, dear.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Someday we'll meet in heaven and<BR> we can share eternity. I know sounds corny but that's how I really feel as well right<BR> now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah. You're Kate Winslet and he's Leonardo DiCaprio and someday after living your full life, you're going to reunite in "Titanic Heaven." Right. Amazing how people get sucked into this drivel. <P>THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SOULMATES. DEAL WITH IT. Your "soulmate" is the person you live with, the one whose laundry you do, who you take care of when he's sick, who takes care of you when you're sick, the one you live day-to-day with, not the one who gives you butterflies in your stomach.<P>OK. End of brutality.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I know I need to find another job<BR> and I am going to counseling Tuesday night by myself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is a lot more promising. You definitely need to change jobs so you can avoid contact with OM. And individual counseling might help too.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My husband had dinner ready for me Friday night and was so happy to see me. He<BR> repeated to say he wanted children and wanted to try Friday night. Of course, I said<BR> no and felt extremely guilty.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sounds like your H really wants you to be happy with him, and he's willing to bend over backwards to keep you. This is VERY encouraging. However, I would advise you to wait to start a family until you get your head on straight and finish going through withdrawal. Does your H know about the affair yet? If not, honesty ought to precede a family.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He's out now doing one of his "annoying activities", which is another issue with us and has escalated over the course of our marriage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I presume this is something you don't want to post publicly about. Well, where these things are concerned, you have to decide how much you're going to let the things you can't change bother you. I have the same problem.<P>I hope this all doesn't sound cruel, but if you read this board over time, you'll hear the same "always regret" "soulmate" stuff over and over again.<P>Your plans are good. Keep with them.<P>

When you said:<BR>"My husband had dinner ready for me Friday night and was so happy to see me. He repeated to say he wanted children and wanted to try Friday night. Of course, I said no and felt extremely guilty."<P>It hurt me for your husband. I have been in your shoes, and I was very hurtful to my H. Trust me when I say that it is something you will REGRET for the rest of your life!!<P>All the things you say about the OM remind me of things I said too... and it makes me SICK now to think that I put that much of my heart and soul into someone who WASN'T MINE TO BEGIN WITH and I WAS NOT HIS! <P>Listen to what is said here... use our experience to your benefit. I honestly did listen to what was said here and I learned this much - nothing you are going through is new, most of it is fantasy, you will hate yourself if you continue as you are. <P>Give your husband AT LEAST a chance here... he's TRYING and he DOES NOT deserve the secrets and lies. And the OM with tears in his eyes? He did it to himself. He took something that wasn't his and now has to face the reality of his choice. Don't fall back on the "one day we'll be together" thing or you'll never give your H the chance he deserves. In truth, the marriage is OVER if you don't let go of the OM.<P>Please, please... you are in the MB forum for a reason. I presume it is to strengthen your marriage. Don't print out anything for the OM, print out something for your H that will begin an open communication with him. I will say again that your H must realize there is something between you (the OM). Clarify it for him. He deserves honesty. <P>This is probably the harshest post I've ever written here, and I apologize in advance if it seems hurtful. I don't mean to sound that way. Maybe it's because I see a little of myself in you - and it sickens me that I stood up for and defended the OM and my relationship to him to everyone. <P>I have thought of you often this weekend. Please do what is right...<BR>

Dazzed & confused,<P>Thanks for that shot of reality. I needed that. Yeah, I have the Titanic tape and I've watched it so many times "never let go". I'm a dreamer I know that. I get so wrapped up in fantasy. There really is no such thing as a "soul mate"? My affair was just trying to fill the void in my marriage? That's so hard to swallow. I keep thinking it happened because we belonged together, it was fate, our destiny to be together. I know I have to stop.<P>I've been trying all day, as my husband was out, looking at our wedding pictures, remembering how it was. He was everything to me, I couldn't wait to see him. I used to sleep with his shirt on and loved the way he smelled. He was the best, even down to the way he walked. But I was 17 and even when we married 5 years later things were still good. It's been about 3 years since things have started sliding. Then the affair started 2 years ago and of course a rapid slide thereafter.<P>He has a hobby, which over the years has consumed more and more of his time. I swear sometimes he going mid age crazy at 34. And it's very expensive, so we argue over money. It's been tight for us and the bills have really added the recent years. He says disrepectfull things to me "like I'm boring" because I don't "real" hobby so I lash back. It hurts and I become resentful of his activity. I feel like I'm second, he pays more attention to his activity. I've talked to him about this but hasn't changed yet. I know he loves it so I'm trying to accept it. Of course the OM knows about this and has always told me that if were together I would be his #1 priority.<P>I'm not starting a family for a long time, I realize I can't now

Hummingbird,<P>Please read this Dr. Harley article, it is specifically about your issue...<P>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5054a_qa.html

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I needed that. Yeah, I have the Titanic tape and I've watched it so many times "never let go". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ah, you're one of THOSE people too, eh? Me too. E-mail me at filmgeek55@hotmail.com if you want the URL of some fanfic I'm writing. I strive for "down to earth" romance, without that "tragic, doomed" stuff. I've got some infidelity plotlines coming up that use a lot of the MB principles.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm a dreamer I know that. I get so wrapped up in fantasy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, recognizing that is step one. It's important to keep fantasy from encroaching on reality and recognizing it for what it is. As an aspiring fiction writer, I've often found that my H can't possibly live up to the men I create in my head and put down on paper (or on screen, since I write on computer). It's important for me to keep in mind that he hasn't changed, it's my expectations that have.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There really is no such thing as a "soul mate"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's right. It's something invented by romance writers.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My affair was just trying to fill the void in my marriage? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yup. Read the stuff on this site. I am the biggest skeptical in the world about "self-help" books and "psychobabble." But this stuff is (for the most part) right on the money. I've been "Plan A"-ing my H (read my profile) since March, with good (if mixed) results.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That's so hard to swallow. I keep thinking it happened because we belonged together, it was fate, our destiny to be together. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Stop watching TITANIC, dear. And lay off the romance novels. I'm dead serious. There's another thread here about movies, and I think there's a bigger issue here, about how we think "true love" is swooning and big emotions and it's tragic and doomed. When I see people regarding WUTHERING HEIGHTS as a Great Love Story, I cringe. Read it again. Sick, sick, sick.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I've been trying all day, as my husband was out, looking at our wedding pictures, remembering how it was. He was everything to me, I couldn't wait to see him. I used to sleep with his shirt on and loved the way he smelled. He was the best, even down to the way he walked.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, so you had that once. You can get it again.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He has a hobby, which over the years has consumed more and more of his time. I<BR> swear sometimes he going mid age crazy at 34. And it's very expensive, so we argue<BR> over money.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This can be a problem. My H has an expensive hobby too, but he always has. I've learned to live with it. If it's consuming more and more of his time, though, he may be using it to avoid having to deal with issues in your marriage. Is your H a conflict avoider? Can you TALK to him about your marriage and maybe have him get in touch with what HE feels is lacking? Mine won't do it, so that's a problem for me.<P>You guys married young, and it's possible he feels he missed out on something. I can't address that one, because my H and I met at age 28 and married at 31.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He says disrepectfull things to me "like I'm boring" because I don't "real" hobby so I lash back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Then maybe you need your own hobby? Sounds like there's something else going on and the hobby is a symptom. Either that or he's got an addiction to it. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> It hurts and I become resentful of his activity. I feel like I'm second, he pays<BR> more attention to his activity. I've talked to him about this but hasn't changed yet. I<BR> know he loves it so I'm trying to accept it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And you may have to. Remember: You can't change what he does, you can only change what you do. <P>The book I'm about to mention has been discussed elsewhere on this site. It's called HOW ONE OF YOU CAN BRING BOTH OF YOU TOGETHER, by Susan Page. I bought it, and it's changed my life. I have to go back and re-read it, because I've back-slid a bit. I told my therapist about it and now she recommends it to all her patients with marital problems. The premise is that a relationship is an interaction, and when one person changes how he/she approaches the interaction, the other person's reaction has to change also.<P>Men need to know that they are not defined only by their marriages. It sounds like your H still has a lot of "kid" in him, and this hobby lets him delude himself, while he's doing it, that he's still a kid. I'm glad you recognize that starting a family now is a bad idea. Your H has to come to terms with being a grown-up first.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Of course the OM knows about this and<BR> has always told me that if were together I would be his #1 priority.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course...what would you expect him to say? This is highly manipulative behavior. OM knows all of your buttons and pushes them relentlessly. YOu HAVE to get away from this guy. This sort of manipulativeness would rapidly turn into controlling behavior if you two were together. Read facing choices' stories for more on this.<P>Keep us posted.

Hummingbird--<P>I've been away...so I just saw your post. I'm afraid I don't have any good advice to give, but it looks like you've been getting some.<P>All I do know is that it's going to be difficult to really work on your marriage when you are going through withdrawl. <P>I do know how you feel about the soulmate thing with the OM and it sounds like the OM is treating you the same exact way my OM treated me. Sometimes I still feel that the OM is a perfect match for me, but I don't feel that I NEED to have him in my life any longer.<P>I do believe that you will get over the OM and be able to move on in your marriage. Keep posting and talking it will really help you get the OM out of your system.

Dazed & confused,<P>The hit the nail on the head with my husband! He is a big kid and it's definitely gotten worse the older he gets! I feel he obsessed with this hobby. He has said to me so many times (especially when I mention children), he feels he hasn't "lived" life yet. I try to make him happy when he "really" wants something expensive and we have alittle extra cash, I'll buy it as a gift or surprise, he's thrilled for about 2 weeks until something better comes along. I feel he is never satisfied. He has to always have the best and newest thing out there. I get disgusted. <P>We did marry young, he sold all his "toys": boat, motorcycle, etc. so we could put a downpayment on our house. The past 8 years almost every dime we've made has gone into our house, fixing it up, etc. <P>Everytime we argue or it gets to heated for him, he leaves to do his hobby or walks away. He has a very hard time conflict, he wants to make up in 1 minute without discussing the issue. I always say we can't "sweep it under the rug" we have to talk.<P>I spend lots of time with my family and whatever time I have left I make crafts. I love my home, I stencil, decorate and always try to be conservative with money. <P>He always tells me about his dreams with his hobby & friends, never dreaming about us. Where we can go, do together. He says whatever I want to do, he'll do but I want him to take the initiative.<P>My weekend has been good overall. He's been very affectionate and comprised a few times, I surprised myself. I haven't thought of the OM too much and it is a relief knowing he'll be out all week on vacation. <P>Sometimes I feel overwhelmed with the all the problems in my marriage but I'm trying to look at the glass being "half full" and think positive.

OK, so you guys are in your late 20's and your H feels life is passing him by. Well, he should have thought of this before getting married.<P>I too have an aging adolescent, only mine is 44. The key is to keep some fun in your life. I wanted a house desperately, and H didn't. I called in all my markers to get our house. Now that its value has gone up over $40K in 3 years, he's happy, and he loves the neighborhood. I was lucky...he could have really resented it (and when he has employment problems, he does). Neither of us wanted kids, and that has helped keep the "life is no fun" stuff down. I think it would help you both to plan things you can do together. We try to come up with something every weekend that we both can enjoy. My H loves to get up real early and go for long hikes. I don't like it as much as he does, and for years, he used to go alone. Now, I go with him and enjoy it more than I thought I would. Sometimes it's a movie, sometimes we go out for brunch, sometimes we just go to a hotel for the weekend. <P>With a guy like this, the key is to NOT be "the old ball and chain", but to show him that marriage can be FUN.<P>Your H means well, but he's probably emotionally stunted like mine is, and you may never get the kind of "romance" you crave; the kind that movies like TITANIC have led you to believe really happen. It's a hard thing to accept.<P>As far as children are concerned, it's entirely possible that once you show him that marriage can be fun, he may be more receptive to the idea that kids can be fun too.