Yesterdays turn of events made me see tiny bit of hope for Austin. Nope. He has done it again.

After his going to church son and I visit regularly, he called and asked us to lunch, but son wasn't feeling too good and we were doing something else, pictures for halloween, since he had a bit of fever and I didn't want him around kids at church.

Anyway, wH said athat he looked for us at church. This was so major for him. Very big.

Then today after I return from work and picking up son from school, I see him drive into driveway. He walked up to my garage door, which was open. We had a bit of bad weather overnight and in the am so I put dog in the garage and not in yard. Dog pooped in there so I hadn't yet had a chance to clean it out only having just arrived home. My suv I commute in about 60 miles a day and he was peering into both the garage and the suv turning up his nose. See this snooping and decide to open the door and greet him (from about forty feet away) and smile. Said we would have loved to go to lunch with you yesterday. And he smiled and placed my support check on the winshield of suv. He was brief and drove off.

Then came the onslaught. Fifteen minutes later he phones me. Says he was GLAD WE DID NOT GO TO LUNCH TOGETHER UNDER THESE CONDITIONS. Then he goes on and on about how my "rental house is so nice; the subdivision is so nice", etc. to make me feel better about getting the divorce. Then outta nowhere, he goes wacko. Starts yelling and cussing me out after I gently ask why he is not wanting to go to lunch? Say how proud I am he went to church...I am in B but want to be an encourager if he was exiting fog somewhat.

He calls me a "worthless piece of sh@t". I am crying so hard now. He says over and over "what have you ever done for me?" "what have you ever done". I am so in tears now. Stayed coherent, but was sobbing the whole time. It just froze me inside. I sent him a re email basically of the one I sent last week. Said that until HE DECIDED TO CHANGE, TO FIND GOD AGAIN IN HIS LIFE AND REPENT AND COME BACK TO US THAT I WAS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE HIM. AND IF HE DIDN'T I WOULD KEEP THIS DISTANCE AS IT IS BEST FOR ME TO NOT BE HURT ANYMORE. REad my post tonight to Cajunky on "Prayer requests for reconciliation". It gives a much more eloquent of the events as they happened. My eyes are just now beginning to go down some now. I just went into my closet in master and cried and cried. Son was in way other part of house so he did not see or her me or any of it. He called my lawyer an idiot and THE MONEY FACTOR CAME INTO PLAY AGAIN. SAID HE WOULD NOT PAY WHAT THE LAW STATES AS A FAIR AND REASONABLE AMOUNT FOR A MAN WHO IS AS FINANCIALLY SUCCESSFUL AS HE IS. SAID "I WASN'T PUT ON THIS EARTH TO SUPPORT YOU".

I am once again floored by this man and staying in plan B until real change, if it will evert happen occurs. Told him that I AM PRAYING FOR HIM AND THAT GOD CAN RESURRECT EVEN THE DEAD AND DIVORCING. THAT I WOULD NOT SEE OR BE AROUND HIM UNLESS THOSE C HANGES OCCUR.

I give him one tiny inch and he takes ten thousand miles. Am at end of rope. He is so lost. Why did he go to church and why did he try???I am not worthless. Was a good wife. Was what I think most guys would want in fact.

My son is eating snacks I just cooked before bedtime for him..He is watching veggie tales movie "King George and the Ducky". Funny and very bugs bunny humor on a Bible story. This is take off on the story of David and his adulterous affair with bathesheba.

This would be a great video to give to our kids when they visit wS home on weekends, etc. Their adolescent like minds can grasp the humor and just maybe see that THE WHOLE THING DAVID DID WAS WRONG. TAKING OR COVETING SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU IS JUST PLAIN WRONG AND IT MAKES GOD SAD. Enuff said. Watch it and send it along in their overnight bags. I sure will this weekend.

Peachy,

Sorry about this. I was pulling for you. Stay strong and safe. That is about all I can advise. Just keep yourself safe. He is not in a place of coherance and the normal world has no meaning in his current state. We see things differently, that is all. Just try to remember to keep yourself and your boy safe. I know that this has been a tremendous struggle for you and none of us desire the outcome that is so often our fate. But once we accept it within a frame of reference not of defeat, but of understanding, we are better able to move on with our lives.

I recommend cessation of all but the most basic involvement with him. Child only. All other information and discussion should be through lawyers. I don't think that you are in a place in which you can keep yourself safe interacting with him. You continue to hope to the point that you place yourself in harms way everytime you talk with him. I think that you are vulnerable, because you truly desire to reconcile, but can't make it happen on your own. I think that you are having a real difficult time going Plan B. It is incredibly hard. Especially when you want so much to be together in a good relationship.

But Peachy, it is my opinion, and mine alone, that you may not be able to control yourself in these interactions either. Please understand what I am saying. Something is happening in your interaction with your husband. I am not saying you are instigating the situation, but what I am saying is that something within you and your relationship with him makes him "blow up". Even if it has nothing to do with anything 'bad' that you say, the simple fact is that when you talk with him, you are in a situation to either say something or not say something, mean something or not mean something, do whatever or not do whatever. And it is this situation that causes this sort of tremendous strife. Even if it is only his guilt, the fact that he feels guilty around you or talking with you is enough. I do not condone his response to his guilt, but you must stop worrying about what should or shouldn't happen. You must stop thinking that you are in the right, therefore he has no right to do or say bad things. Because as I have learned, it just doesn't matter who is right or wrong. It just doesn't matter if he understands or misunderstands. The outcome is the same. YOU ARE FEELING HORRIBLE AND HE IS ANGRY. Regardless of the sense or reality behind WHY.... It is just WHAT IS that is important right now.

You know that this will happen. Not every time, but too often to take further chances at this juncture. You need to keep yourself safe. And the only way to do that at this time is to severely limit your interaction. You must develop a plan on how to engage him BEFORE you are put into the situation to do it. Think of how you will end a call in which he is going off. Think about how you will terminate a meeting if he becomes unreasonable. You are sitting there and taking it, therefore he is giving it to you in full force. He should never hear you crying on the phone, because it doesn't not make him embarrassed about his actions nor does it make him feel sorry for you. It is the blood that causes his guilt to surface even more so. It is the essence of his folly and therefore adds to his pressure and anger. You should never allow yourself to continue a conversation or interaction with him when you feel this way. Nothing good with come out of it. And that is all that your goal should be at this time.

What good will come out of this phone call, discussion, interaction, etc. Nothing else, at least for right now. Do not engage him in ChitChat because although this phone call may be fine, the next one will be horrible. Just keep them all very focused and when things start to fray or drift, end it. Don't hang up, but talk to him quickly about the fact that you both are getting off track and that you both need to end the conversation. If he will calm down then fine, but if he will not tell him you are going to hang up, then do it. Don't just hang up, because that is a slight against him and will only make things worse. Also, he will not learn from the encounter because he will just be angry at you. If you warn him and then calmly hang up, he will be better able to understand that you will not tolerate the behavior the next time, and when you say you are getting off task, he will be more likely to respond appropriately the next time.

I don't know, this is how I talk to my wife, at least somewhat. We have been better now that we rarely talk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I don't think we have spoken to each other for about a month now, except for children things. It is definitely better than it was before. We were both so defensive, that we couldn't say Hello without there being some undercurrent of resentment.

I second FS's advice, and your decision to keep e-mails only - and just for written records.

I actually have now blocked Ex's e-mails because he wasn't sating anthing worthwhile in them anyway.

You can actually have the phone messages recorded to ge ta record of his verbal abuse, but it's jsut not worth it for you to have to go throught that.

Before you started posting again, and I was gong through this at your stage, the people here told me to tell Ex - who was then WH, what type of communication I would and would not tolerate - such as

WH - From now on I will accept e-mails, written letters, faxes, etc. from you. I will not accept phone calls, face to face conversations etc. -K

At the time, I tried to institute this and when I stuck to it I was at peace, and when I didn't well....... and now that I look back = that advice makes so much sense!

You have to have a plan - and tell WH - I will hang up on you if you continue to speak to me that way. And then do it.

You do not have to take this.

And if he wants you to control the divorce - ask for the moon and go for it! Maybe he'll sign everything away just to be rid of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I know the pain.... Just let it out, and then let it empower you to stand up for yourself and your son and set your boundaries.

May God give you His strength. K

Peachy, Peachy, Peachy,

everyone has their own view of reality and truth. . some peoples are just more weird than others. . .

BUT, don't take your disordered STBX's view of the world personally. . . and don't take his abuse. . . just hang up the phone, HANG UP THE PHONE! ! as soon as he starts. . . and if in person, just walk or run away. . . . or get in the car and drive away. . . .

AND forget the fog syndrome that is used here. . . he is more disordered than that. . . and ENs won't make a bit of difference to him . . so just learn two pieces of your new reality:

1) you can't control him, his actions, etc. . . your boundary is your reactions to his behaviors and you can let him know what they might be, but you won't be able to absolutely control his behaviors. . . and so when you keep asking him to change his behaviors, you will get no where. . .

2) he is not doing this purposefully to hurt you. . . he can't control himself. . . its his behavior that is totally disordered, and just try to stand back and say to yourself, "WOW! does he need help or what?"

and remember, each day
is practice for tomorrow's
handling Austin better. . . .

life will get better, just try to ignore his childish temper tantrums, remember, he may even have split personality, who knows? that's part of a borderline. . . .

wiftty

Thanks Wifty,

Had a good day at work and received a call from Austin earlier in day. did not answer it. He left vm on my cell. Said he would be picking up son today for midweek visit. Then later today as I am leaving he calls again. Again, I let him leave vm and do not answer. He says that he does not want to do anything to make me upset anymore and will not behave that way if I call (one for me on my side) and that he wanted me to pick up son and that he will just get him on thurs. for his weekend visitation.

So I call him and he says he is once again SORRY for everything, whether I believe it or not. Well, I do not. He then says that our problems were because of THINGS BETWEEN US, THAT WE WERE NOT FRIENDS, ETC, YADA YADA YADA, AND THAT WAS WHY WE ARE GETTING A DIVORCE. Never mind the fact that all of the arguements for the LAST TWO YEARS STEMMED FROM THE FACT HE WAS HAVING AN ILLICIT AFFAIR W/ MS. MONKEYHO. He then said that I should, get this, THAT OUR D WAS CAUSED BY THIS AND NOTHING MORE. So then I countered with this. I WILL NOT EVER BUY THAT LINE OF STUPID REASONING EVER AGAIN. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO FEED IT TO ME OK? I said if we HAD PROBLEMS BETWEEN US THEN WHY DID HE NOT TAKE THEM UP WITH ME? THEN WHY DID I THINK WE WERE GOING TO ADD TO OUR FAMILY ALSO? WAS I JUST EXTREMELY STUPID OR DECEIVED? He then said that "IT TAKES TWO PEOPLE TO WORK TOGETHER AND I DID NOT WANT TO ANYMORE". So then I said, "AND THAT WAS BECAUSE YOU HAD SOMEONE ELSE MEETING YOUR EMOTIONAL AND UH, PERSONAL NEEDS AS WELL." I then told him how he used to say over and over again that "I was an all talk and no do person". Well TODAY PROVED THAT WRONG. HE IS AN ALL TALK AND NO DO PERSON. I TOLD HIM THAT HE IS NOW THE KING OF EXCUSES. AND THAT THIS KING IS HAVING HIS KINGDOM DIVIDED. THE QUEEN WANTS OUT. Then I said to him that "THERE IS NO EXCUSE GOOD ENOUGH TO SPLIT UP A FAMILY JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESN'T FEEL LIKE TALKING THROUGH THINGS". THAT EXCUSE JUST DOESN'T FLY. THEN I TOLD HIM "YOU ARE A SMART GUY AND YOU WOULD EVEN BE ABLE TO SEE THRU THAT LINE OF CRAP IF SOMEONE ELSE SAID THAT TO YOU, UNDERSTAND NOW?".

He then went on and on say8ing all he wanted was us to "be such really good friends and then maybe in the future, more but that all of this had gotten so bad over the last few years (OH AND I WONDER WHY WE WEREN'T GETTING ALONG...GEEZ...COULD IT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH A MONKEY...

So then I politely told him that "I AM LEAVING YOU THE PHOTOS AND CARD WE HAD FOR YOU ON SUNDAY. I WILL ALWAYS LOVE THE MAN I MARRIED BUT I CAN'T STAY AROUND FOR THIS ANYMORE. IT IS JUST TOO MUCH FOR ME TO BEAR. I NEED TO PLACE MUCH DISTANCE BETWEEN US NOW. IT IS THE BEST FOR ME. I HAVE TO DO THAT FOR ME NOW. I WON'T BE CALLING YOU OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT AND AM NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE YOU UNTIL YOU CHANGE, IF EVER. THAT DAY MIGHT NOT EVER COME AND I HAVE ACCEPTED THAT FULLY. BUT YOU BE FULLY AWARE THAT IT IS ME WHO IS MOVING ON."

More resistance. The part about "YOU KEEP MAKING ME RESENT YOU WHEN YOU SAY THAT. YOU CAN'T JUST DROP THINGS AND BE FRIENDS CAN YOU? I replied, "SURE, WE COULD HAVE BEEN REALLY WORKING HARD ON BECOMING FRIENDS IF THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO YOU. BUT YOU DO NOT FIRST HAVE TO HAVE A DIVORCE DECREE TO DO THAT. YOU JUST HAVE TO MAKE EXCUSES AND BE SELFISH AND WANT YOUR LIFE ONE WAY, YOUR WAY. ". I closed in saying "GOD BLESS YOU AUSTIN. I WILL HAVE YOU ALWAYS IN MY HEART AND AM SORRY YOU ARE ANGRY AT THE CHOICES YOU HAVE NOW MADE. THEY ARE YOURS. EITHER LIVE WITH THEM OR DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM AND NEVER INSULT ME WITH SUCH STUPIDITY AGAIN. I WILL NEVER HEAR SUCH THINGS COMING OUT OF THE MOUTH OF A MAN I ONCE THOUGHT TO BE WISE."

I cried a little after, but stood firm. He can't have any more cake. He thinks I am defying him in wanting to have plan B. THat I am just pushing him farther away. Today I spelled it out for him. Either he changes and pursues me and the proper road of reconciliation or I keep on going and ahead. He's gonna lose everything. I called my attorney and told her that I need to hear f rom her as I want to press forward. He has to see that I am dead serious about this. I am not playing games, I am through with his. Am done.

OH AND HE DID SAY OVER AND OVER THAT HE AND MS. MONKEY WERE THROUGH. But where is the repentance then? He added insult to injury by adding before I got off that, "IF OUR D WAS ABOUT MS. MONKEY, THEN I WOULD HAVE ALREADY COME BACK.". Garbage..It is stupid foggy garbage.

He has a brief moment of clarity, due to the presence of God being so strong and in a church where they probably showed him truth he didn't want to accept. He felt maybe guilt on Sunday, but then lashed back at me. I did not cheat. I did not do anything and wanted to work on the real problems he stated. Truth was, the problems were not at all big ones, easily fixed and normal ones married couples face. He did not want to fix them for if he WERE TO WORK WITH ME, HE WOULD HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE HE WAS WRONG AND THAT HIS AFFAIR WITH MS. MONKEY WAS WRONG AND SHE WAS TOO DAMN IMPORTANT. I was expendable.

OH, this is important also. WHAT ABOUT MY NEEDS? MY EN'S. They have been long and forgotten. So many times we are in A for what seems an eternity that we forget WE HAVE EN'S TOO. In listening in retrospect to him, I can say that this is a very SELFISH MAN. All he is worried about is him. I TOLD HIM THAT NOW SOMEONE WILL ONE DAY BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO MEET MY EN'S.

Selfishness is why he wouldn't choose to even go to one, one measly counseling session with me and yet choose to keep seeing ms. monkey and follow with divorce. He wanted to keep eating cake and when ms. monkey was outta town, he could slip in every once and a while and be with the coolest married woman in this suburb--me. Then go back to more cake eating. All the while making ms. monkey and every one else in this WORLD THAT ACCEPTS SIN AND MAKES EXCUSES FOR IT, that he is THE VICTIM OF ALL THIS STUFF. BEING IN A MARRIAGE WHERE SOMEONE DID NOT UNDERSTAND ENOUGH. LISTEN ENOUGH. WHATEVER ENOUGH. AND THAT IT WAS BECAUSE OF HIS WIFE HE WAS FORCED, YES I SAY FORCED TO HAVE AN AFFAIR AND CONTINUE IT FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS.

Doesn't your HEART JUST BLEED FOR THAT POOR MAN? LIFE IS SO UNFAIR WHEN THE WORLD WON'T LET YOU JUST HAVE YOUR WAY ALL THE TIME.

hey Not Peachy,

one other point to remember, is that a manipulator will always try to "project" his reality, or the reality that is desired onto the other person. . . . when i tell my X to speak for herself, she has a hard time with it. . .

your descriptions of your conversations sounds very similar to austin projecting his reality onto you, to get you to accept it. . . and in doing so, he is baiting you, and if you get into a discussion, you have taken the bait. . .

here is where you have to learn to use silence as a response. . . i use it alot with my x because she babbles on about her reality which is not anywhere close to my reality. . . not only that, her reality is designed to create illusions to make herself feel good, feel better, than she really should. . . .

projections are illusions, and are designed to make someone feel better about themselves, but in reality, illusions are just that, and is a from of cheating, of avoiding the hard work, to have a fulfilling life. . .

so forget the cake, but don't take the discussion bait ask yourself three questions in your discussions:

1) what is his goal? or ask him sometime, say "Austin, what is your goal of the discussion?"

2) ask, "is this conversation about settling the divorce?" if not, hang up

3) ask "is this conversation about our child's schedule or well being?" if not hang up. . .

they get the message after awhile, but you CAN'T TAKE THE BAIT!

good luck,
wiftty

It is true. He is projecting. His profession is sales, and he is a master at that. He always considers himself a deal closer. One who can get anyone to do anything FOR HIM. And I am just not going to behave that way anymore.

Guess that big, huge home that I used to occupy with him is starting to get lonely . Now that neither monkey or I are around and his son is only around every other weekend and tonight he did not take me up on his usual mid week visitation night. I just jotted his declination of visitation in my daytimer.

He is just not getting it. In a wierd way s ometimes he acts like my son, age 4. When son doesn't get his way, he scrunches up his face, his whole neck and face turn red, and he screams. He doesn't get his way though. He is just like some kid saying, "I can do whatever I want to. I have enough money. IF only EVERYBODY INCLUDING GOD understands why I deserve this divorce, then I would be happy." And when I say that I am not going to be his pawn, his "special friend with future potential" as it has been put, one who is not good enough to keep a solemn committment to but one who is good enough for a night of fun, then that is why I am in B. To protect me.

What buuuuuurns me is the fact HE TOLD ME HE HAS RESENTMENT TO ME. This man attempted earlier this summer to take primary custody from me. He has on occasion before a temporary order was put in place, just did not give me the alimony and was up to a month late which put my bills in disarray. He would angrily agree to pay me at the very end of the month, instead of the first on two months and on several occasions, gave me $800 less than agreed upon. So he just "does what he thinks he has to do". And that is all. Until the order, he told me many times" I don't have to pay you anything if I don't want to until the D is final".

I am just so sick of this guy. He is nothing like the man I knew once. Wonder how long this fog is going to stay hovering over his brain? I can't do this much more.

AND I WILL JUST HANG UP FROM NOW ON. I have been doing the VM thing and will probably. I don't even want to hear his voice. B plan is somewhat a great sigh of relief from me b/c I don't have to deal with his lying ways. I don't have to hear the fog or the poop that he shovels onto my shoulders.

Maybe this won't hurt one day. Why do i even care at all? Guess I just had a good memory. But I don't even remember when the last time was that I enjoyed being around him. ARRRRRGH! IF ANYONE SHOULD BE RESENTFUL IT SHOULD BE ME...BUT I AM NOT RESENTFUL AT ALL. JUST CONFUSED AND HURT AND MAD. I FORGIVE HIM. SURE DO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I am posting here and briefly talking with you guys when Austin sees I'm online and IM's me. He starts asking why I am at home...Told him.

He then goes on to say stuff about how he wants son to repeat pre k before kindergarten b/c of his birthday. I was always in agreement with him, so I agreed. Then stated my opinion that in agreement with this, a prek-kindergarten bridge program, which there is one at his school, is best for him.

I try the agree, state my point and the best thing again. This is only thing that works. Did not let him keep chatting with me. HE wished me a good day and we got off IM. I am glad really, got too much to do around house.

Had a good day at home with son. Son had next door neighbor over for a five hour play date. They were so cute. He is exhausted and sleeping.

I am going to bed also.

No word from Austin. It was so strange today. I was driving home and remembered that I had long ago dreamed about the very same spot and during that dream had a feeling of unrest/uneasiness. It was the ultimate deja vu thing. Wierd.

I am doing good. Plan B has been in effect for three days now. Austin has only broken silence once and then IM'd me. There was no reason for him to IM today, as we have had this discussion over a hundred times already and we were already in agreement with it.

That is what is so wierd. Nothing to discuss, really. Just him wanting to either start something or to see if I IM him back. I was nice though. I am going to get out and about this weekend. Bible study for single moms on Friday at 7 pm. I may do that. need more good buddies. Gee I wish you guys lived nearby...Hugs and stay warm tonight..Gettin' kinda cool here. Sure wish one day I will have a date so I can cozy up in front of my fireplace one of these milleniums....That's after the D is final, though. No baggage gonna be here. I will be clean and clear before I seek someone.

Peachy - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi Peachy,
This sounds like abuse, sorry to say, and won't change even if he does find the church again. I have an abusive mother, and I can't tell you how many chances I've given her over all the years. She simply cannot accept my boundaries, cannot get over herself as the center of the universe...

Finally I realised the cycle that I was in with her, when once again she flipped out for no reason, terrifying me. Well, I came home crying, covered in coffee she'd thrown on me for emphasis... H said, "you always think it's the last time, don't you? that she'll never do it again.."

I thought about that for a long time. You know what? He was right. I was looking for her to be nice as a symbol that she wouldn't hurt my feelings anymore. What I should have been looking for was continued controlling behavior.

Well, needless to say, she's continued with even more hurtful actions since that day a couple years back. She is incapable of accepting responsibility for her behavior, and until the day she can do that, there is NO HOPE that she will stop being abusive. Accepting responsibility and not making others take responsibility for your actions, thoughts and behaviors is the first step in stopping being abusive.

So, you can't fix Austin, obviously. You've been so strong, and that's great, because in the end you can only control yourself. Just wanted to let you know that others have been there/are there...

This is for people whose parents were controlling, however, just change the word parents to Austin, you might see a couple of things that are similar, or not. Thought I'd pass along just in case it could help, even a bit.
-blueberry

Ten Signs You May Have Had Controlling Parents
When you were growing up, your parents...
1. Overscrutinized your eating, appearance, hobbies, or social life
2. Pressured you with perfectionistic expectations or unattainable standards
3. Forbade you from questioning or disagreeing with them
4. Discouraged you from expressing anger, fear or sadness around them
5. Violated your privacy
6. Intimidated, manipulated or overpowered you
7. Discouraged your efforts to experiment and think for yourself
8. Gave you no say in household rules and responsibilities
9. Seemed unaware of the pain they caused you or others
10. Seemed unwilling to admit they were wrong

Ten Signs Your Parents May Still Control You
Even today as an adult, you...
1. Feel disloyal when acting or feeling differently than your parents
2. Feel easily annoyed or impatient with your parents without knowing why
3. Feel confused by parental mixed messages
4. Are afraid to express your true feelings around your parents
5. Feel intimidated or belittled by your parents
6. Worry more about pleasing your parents than being yourself
7. Find it hard to emotionally separate from your parents
8. Talk to your parents more out of obligation than choice
9. Get tense when you think about being around your parents
10. Want to temporarily reduce or sever contact with a parent

Ten Signs Early Unhealthy Control May Still Affect You
In your adult life, you...
1. Feel perfectionistic, driven, or rarely satisfied
2. Feel intimidated or easily angered around controlling people
3. Lose yourself in relationships by automatically putting others' needs first
4. Find it hard to relax, laugh or be spontaneous
5. Feel as if you are under scrutiny even when no one else is around
6. Have an eating disorder or addictive behaviors
7. Have trouble finding a spiritual belief that feels right
8. Expect others to hurt, judge, or take advantage of you
9. Have harsh "inner critics"
10. Have trouble asserting yourself or feeling proud of your accomplishments

From If You Had Controlling Parents: How to Make Peace With Your Past and Take Your Place in the World. Published by Cliff Street/HarperCollins. Copyright © 1999 by Dan Neuharth, Ph.D. All rights reserved.

<small>[ October 09, 2002, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: blueberryskies ]</small>

Thanks blueberry. My mom was controlling and verbally abusive also. Guess when I was with Austin I must have felt right at home.

But that is different now. I don't like it. My mom is actually much better and has been for quite a few years. She's not perfect, but a definite improvement. We are somewhat friends now.

But it is abuse, verbal now with him. I still do not know why. My post tonight about his latest stunt is good proof. I swear, he has sociopathic tendencies. Just doesn't think anything at all with regard to law, morality, etc, has anything to do with him, just for all the other peons out there.

Hi again NPIGA! YOU GO, GIRL! That's all I can say when you told him how it was on the phone the other day. I agree with the other posters here also - tell him NO PHONE CALLS because you're tired of his never-ending line of senseless horsesh!t and tell him if it keeps up, the IM is getting BLOCKED too! Him resent you!?? Ha, don't make me laugh, please! So I guess this means (as usual) that what he's done with MS. MW doesn't give you JUST CAUSE to resent him either, huh? Well, I guess you never could talk to someone who is sooooooooooooooo lost in the fog they can't see straight, much less think straight... O by the way, I looked up VERBAL PHONE ABUSE in the Websters Dictionairy and his pic was next to it...
I'll say it again... YOU GO GIRL!!!
Please keep us posted, we're all praying for you the Lord will guide you thru this mess and give you PEACE.
Harold

Thanks bud. You are sooo sweet. Glad you had a great outcome in your life. Your W is a blessed girl.

This alone thing is almost getting too much. Although I have been filed for 13 mos and separated for 15, I am not yet seeing anyone b/c of my faith. My counselor said I could go to dinner though, as long as they knew it was just tha and nothing more. I don't know what to do.

I don't want to end things and not give God every opportunity. But counselor told me that I have to leave it with got. Not just give it, but leave it. That if I keep walking ahead and occasionally looking back to see if he has changed, then I will bump my head as I run into something head on. She is right. But what is morally the right thing to do? I am the original member of the "Convent of the Blessed Celibate Sisterhood" until it is final, but I would just like a night where I can get dressed up, have some handsome guy open the door for me, and take me out to a nice dinner. I haven't had that in so very long.

What is the moral thing to do? I am truly frightened, and only of this, that w hen the first nice guy comes along I am going to jump at the chance because compared to Austin, even a gorilla would be a good choice for a dinner date. I am worried I will be too easy a target for a guy. My best girlfriend here told me that I need to stick to the rule of 20.

Rule of 20 is this. No serious relationship ever with anybody after a divorce unless you have gone out on 20 dates. And at least with five different people. The more dinner dates the better. She endured a M with infidelity also. Her H got another woman pregnant. Woman lost the baby, but it was way too much for my girlfriend. She is so beautiful. Her x was very successful as Austin is, but she is now moved here to my city (she's from my hometown and we go waaaay back) and is engaged to a great guy who worships the ground she walks on. He is also cute and successful but is morally grounded.

Gives me so much hope. I am going to dinner with them tonight. They say that if I keep on going out with them, that because I am alone, the other single guys out there will not be intimidated and that this is a good thing for me. This way I can enjoy a good dinner and conversation w/friends also while being single and looking pretty good. Her finace said that odds are very good this way that I will meet someone somehow. They are so eager to see me happy again, as is my family, friends and even my counselor. I just can't do the full date thing yet. I feel kinda like a twelve year old worrying a year in advance over the impending junior high prom that isn't until next spring. Will I get a date? Do I look alright? Is my outfit cool? You get it.

Hi NPIGA. So sorry to read of your turmoil - it is a topic that there are many differing views on. I guess were it me, I'd go out on friendly dates - sure I know it's been a long time for us all - since the teenage years when we went out, however, in our cases NOW, I'd say that we're (with a few exceptions of some folks still in the fog who think they're still teenagers) all pretty much ADULTS here and therefore make rational logical decisions as such.
OK, no more beating around the bush (heheheee). Bottom Line Up Front - I think it's very noble and admirable that you are in the Celibate Sisterhood, and the '20 DateZ Rule' is also noble. However, none of that changes the fact that you have been ROBBED of companionship and simple friendship by your Mate. You are already emotionally divorced, it's just not yet LEGAL - although it is physical! Do you really, really now, think there is a chance of a snowflake in hell that you and "Shaggie" are going to get back together? Sure, it's a hard blunt question, however, I can only speak from my past experience, which is nowhere near as hurtful and bad as yours. In your experience, reading your past Postings, I'd say not, however, I know 'all things are possible' etc. - true, but, I think some common sense is in order here - I don't know how you feel inside emotionally for him - I know if you were like me, you love and miss the man he USED TO be; however, I think the fog has destroyed that man, and he has morphed into some mindless no-feeling monster with a warped twisted mind that is so sick with anger, self-justification, and (imagined) resentment that he is like Hitler repenting and loving the Jewish Nation again - NOT happening!! All that said, I certainly see NO wrong in you going out on a few simple dates - I was advised to not become engaged till at least 1 year after my Divorce. For you, you've been emotionally divorced for, what did you say, 13 or 15 months? I think when you finally do go to Court, it'll just be 'going thru the motions' of formality - you two have been divorced ever since he left, and then he's done nothing but just reinforce eg. SEAL THE DEAL with his mindless attacks on you, justifications that don't hold water any better than a wet paper bag filled with holes!
I would say you've 'done your time' and only you can decide when that time is up and it's time to move on with a New Life and New Love without him.
Prayers for you, and God bless and guide you to the right decisions.
Harold

You know something. In the 7 years since my x left, not a single friend has introduced me to a man. I don't know of but 2 of my friends who have gone out of their way to include me in anything. I think I need a new set of friends. Most of mine are moving away. There is something wrong here. Peachy, you go out to dinner with these friends, ya' hear?

Thanks. I had an interesting night. Went out with friends to dinner. They are such a sweet couple. We ended up sitting over at their house admiring their new kitten and drinking some chardonnay. Had hilarious time. And no prospects were about during dinner but I didn't care. Then it got strange. My cell rings and it is a guy I am trust me, only friends with. He is near this area and my friends grab the phone and tell him to come by.

He stops by and while I am in the powder room brushing my hair, he tells my friends in the living room that he had to see me. They know I just regard him as a friend. Have already had that "friend" talk with the guy. He tells them that he is waiting for me to quit with the "I cannot date" thing I am doing and believes that I will go out with him once the d is over. My girlfriend later corners me and tells me what he said. I then made an excuse, say thirty minutes later, and went home. Said something about needing to let my dog out to go to the bathroom.

Well, it did at least confirm that I am neihter unattractive or unlikeable. Now I feel really wierd and don't feel like talking to my friend now. He is so sweet but even if the d was final, it wouldn't happen. I just don't have that feeling. You know, the butterfly attraction thing for him. And the really sad part is I don't know if I am going to be able to feel that for anyone for some time. Sure, DJTB, I've done my time. Done over two years time in my opinion. But my soul's been sucked outta me. Except for my family, God, and friends, I feel kinda empty inside.

And I do love the man Austin WAS. Not the baffoon now. It is even too hard to think back to the good times. Almost like I have selective amnesia. I don't want to hurt ever again like this time. Not even 1/100th of the pain. Truth is, he could have just cheated, left, and divorced me and done it quietly, quickly and fairly. Let the axe fall swiftly and cut with one chop but no. He has put me through so much. Like I am on life support and begging someone to turn it off. That is how I feel with regard to M. He just doesn't care so what am I even doing? Plan B is closest. This way I do not have to deal with him. He likes to try every so often to see if I am willing to let him in for a night of fun. Nope, not again. Not unless he was that changed man. And I have hope but am not looking back anymore like I used to to see if that transformation has occurred today. Nope. He will have to be the one to explain that to me when and how it happens, if it ever happens.

I am so tired. Got home about 2 from friends house. Bet for sure my guy friend can figure out that they told me. But he already knows the rules. I want friendship and nothing more. That is it.

Sometimes I am truly afraid that I am too hurt to give anyone a chance. Not this guy, but s ome other guy one day. That I have just been burned one too many times. And it is so unfair. I am fairly young, 33, attractive, and do desire more children. But I feel sometimes like I have my son, do I need any more to be complete? No. I have a good life with my son. Do I need a man to feel more complete? No. In college, I dated primarily two guys and was pinned to both (fraternity thing). Remember after last college boyfriend and I broke up, I maybe did not accept any dates for maybe two months? That was when I met Austin. Never ever in my life have I been like this for so long.

Is it ever going to come back for me? The desire to date and have a relationship? I just do not know. Why has it been so long for me and still no real desire. Maybe I just have to meet the right person to feel it again. But am I ever gonna feel that way ever again? And I agree w/you about the engagement thing. But that is like a million miles ahead of the point where I stand now, today. Afraid I would turn into the runaway bride. Just keep running outta churches left and right...That at the moment of when the minister would ask me if I do, I would say "I don't know" and run like a bat outta hades. They could call me one day maybe the "Runaway Indecisive Bride".

I don't get it. Do know that i will not be alone for second year on new year's eve. At least I can maybe shoot for that. Heard a scary stat last night over dinner. Her finace said that it takes six months on average per year together to get over a relationship. So that means four years?/? Four years of me being in waiting? But guess you can take two years off now for good behavior...lol. Maybe they will let me out early because I've been so good and chaste. That would put me at 35 when I can just move on. At least I am not one year older, like Austin is.

Have hit the point where I have decided I hate this lonliness. I have great friends, go to a great church, and have a good job. But no feelings whatsoever about dating yet, but I WANT THEM TO COME. Even christian counselor said it is time to go out on a dinner date now. She thinks b/c of me being pretty young, attractive, only one child, smart, etc., that I will not stay single very long once I CHOOSE THE DECISION TO START DATING AGAIN. She ironically told me that with her years of experience seeing this situation unfortunately unfold again and again, that it will actually be easier for me this time around than for Austin b/c numbers regarding single guys at my age are more prevalent than in years past. She also said that if Austin wakes up within the next year or so, he will have quite the competition on his hands. That b/c people now are waiting until older to get married, there are more single guys now than before in my age bracket and of the ones single, many were as we are now, victims of divorce too. She thinks it will be only about a year or two at max before I remarry one way or the other. She'd love for Austin to wake up and has said over and over again that if he ever does, she would love to talk to him and give him the low down on mb principles and show him some light. She also thinks that it is inevitable because of his behaviors that he will indeed at one point attempt reconciliation. She also has the unfortunate thought and has let me know that the d will go through and no change by him b/c she believes Austin has finally realized he has done far too much for this present legal marriage to be valid anymore. That if he were to come back, it would have to be on new ground, just demolish all the rubble that is still left of present marriage. Counselor has been doing this twenty plus years. Seen it all. Funny thingis, like I told her, that I am not dreading the alone part anymore. And that I am ok the way I am.