</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He told me he would soon be ready to put our relationship back together he was 98% sure I'm the one.I just
listened didn't say anything cause everytime I spoke up he would say "will ya just listen to me"
He asked me to come to our old place to talk next week...I told him what ever he needed to talk to me about he
could tell me here.
Well he just kept saying he was waiting for me to prove one thing to him before he completly would give up all
relationships. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mary, you have nothing to prove to him, he is the one that has everything to prove to you and he has not even taken the first step as he doesn't realize that it is his controlling, abusive, cheating, etc behaviour that is the problem... Glad you didn't go over there, I know it is very hard, but stay stong, it will get easier in time.. you have gotten some great advice, you are young, you deserve better, don't look back 20 years from now and be stuck in the same
abusive relationship. Do some stuff for you, take a class, go to divorce care, get into IC, go out with friends, try to keep busy and keep your mind off it, you will have to make concious effort to control your thoughts... it is a very difficult time but unless he can do a 180 and change his life around, you don't deserve to be in an abusive relationship.
Stay strong.
Dave

after realizing he was not changing and it was just a cycle, to be reapeated over and over,I started remembering everything that had happened and wrote it all down. It really helped me to see realistically what he was like. It was then that I decided he had a problem and I was in denial about all of it. I am completely detatched from him emotionally now and working on getting my life going again

FreeAgain I'm so proud of you....!!!!!
What a Stronge Women,you give me courage to break this cycle.I'm going to write,I love to write so it shouldn't be a problem <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
And when ever I need to Remember Reality of how he's treated me I can just read in the journals.
My dad went out and bought me one of those recorders as well.To tape Ken when he does come for visits....just to have.
His family completly cut off my son and I from them,I can't Beleive that they are backing his ever move even with the knowledge that he's having affairs.They invited him to bring one of the ladies down to visit them over the holidays.

Here's
a letter from his parents:

Dear Mary,

By withholding Kieran from seeing Kenny, his Father, you withhold
Kieran from
seeing us too. How sad and unfortunate that is for him. If your anger
allows you to try and keep Kieran away from Kenny, Kieran will most
likely be
kept away from us too his Grandparents, as Kenny is our son. How very
sad for
Kieran, how sad that truly is.

Debbie

Here's another letter: After I told everyone why I filed for Divorce.

Mary,

We DO NOT STAND UP FOR EVIL!! I'm sorry you believe that, it certainly
is
not the truth. We are Godly people and love the Lord with all our
hearts,
and that has certainly been demonstrated to both of you time and time
again!
The truth, as you call it, is somewhere between what we hear from you
and
what we hear from Kenny. It takes two to make a marriage work and it
takes
two to destroy one also. From what we have observed over the years
would say
that both have contributed to this outcome. We hurt for that.

As to who has done what to whom, you both know that your individual
actions
directly contribute to the actions of the other. Each action causes a
response which then causes another action. No one wins! Telling
everyone
what actions were taken by Kenny against you only brings one side of
the
situation out in the open. Again, it takes two.

We are as sorry as anyone involved whenever a marriage ends. Although
anger
is a natural reaction, letting it get the best of you will only hurt
you.
Irresponsible actions based on anger is not what's best for Kieran. So
our
request for both you and Kenny is to control your actions for the sake
of
Kieran's well being.

We're glad that you have talked with a Pastor. Seeking Godly advice at
this
time is the best thing. However, had this been done eariler in the
marriage,
all of this may have been avoided. As we both know this was never
walked out
by either of you.

Mary, we want to hear from you. Again, what we want to hear is how
Kieran is
doing. None of us in this home need to hear all the onesided stories
and
details of a broken marriage from two very self-centered people.

Sent with God's love for you, Kieran and Kenny,
Kent & Debbie

Ken can only see Kieran our son while in the presence on me or my parents because of his domestic violence and drug use.His parents have only justified his behavior,and there words don't add up with there actions...just like Ken!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> We haven't talked in months since the emails!!

Mary, you have nothing to prove to him, he is the one that has everything to prove to you and he has not even taken the first step as he doesn't realize that it is his controlling, abusive, cheating, etc behaviour that is the problem... Glad you didn't go over there, I know it is very hard, but stay stong,

Thank you Dave.....he is still pointing the finger at me,and I've always taken it.Tried to change to be better,so he would be HAPPY!!
What really doesn't help is his parents point the finger at me,justified the spending of money on new gear for his studio(while leaving the bills for me ),justified him having to play in bars to get exposure,justified him looking at porn saying it was normal for non-christians to look at it...justified his abuse saying i pushed his buttons.justified the affairs saying I gave him to the ow,because I wasn't meeting his needs.
He wasn't meeting mine not even close,I'm the one who went for help,he got mad that I was talking about his life.I went to women's retreats,counselors ect.
After awile I gave up!!
He thought help was a joke <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> sorry I needed to vent..lol

Just writing,having one of those days...trying to stop myself from telling STBX off
He came for a visit last night one hour late~ 8pm is bad enough,our son is sleeping by 8:30pm for sure...IT GOT TO BE 9:15pm no sign of him.So I turned off the porch light and left a message on his cell,make sure you call me next time I find it rude not to call and let me know your not coming to see our son.And we need to know more of a notice then at 8pm that night.
9:20PM he shows up,hey can I see my son.So I bring him out of bed so he could hold him.During this time I go into my room and close the door,next thing he's knocking on my door..hey can i talk to you.
Ya why not(I was not in the greatest mood ).

He started off saying "You know I don't want things this way!"
I bit my lip and said "Really,Ken what you've done to my insides it would take alot of mending to repair"

In a Arrogant,and cocky tone:
"Well Mary the past 3 years you have made me feel not special and like you didn't care about my dreams "
All you cared about was starting a family,not about getting me through college.You know NO ONE In this city knows what I know in the recording industry" I'm getting bored I've already did all the night clubs in town next week I'm going out to Chicago to do some clubs,and go to the Bose Training.You know I will be making 6 figures someday,and you won't be able to escape me you'll see a movie i've helped,or hear a tune on the radio I worked on"

I wanted to laugh Really...I've heard this FOR YEARS!!!! "Ken, you are very talented..i'm sure you will go somewhere with it!!"

"Mary,I'm still waiting for that one thing"

"What is it Ken?I'm no mind reader!!"

(Ken)"Well I want you to show me that I'm special and that you know who I am..and what I'm about "

(in my mind I was thinking Ya I know what your all about)..

Here's the kicker...."Mary,I think you need to go to a counselor..to get help (over the affairs),I think it would be good for you!"

My mouth dropped "Ken, I am apart of some great support groups,and yes I have gotten Help for the Mess you have caused this family" "I'm Healing,I'm moving forward!"

(Ken)Well you'll never make no 6 figuares like me.

Ken will see in 5 years WHO'S WHERE,Remember when you said I was so weak...you really thought I would just wither away...AND DIE, But I'm not Going to!!!
You've broken the vows to our marriage,and I haven't seen anything to show me why I would want to be with you!!
Look your sleeping with two women I know about and you can't even be commited to them!!
He started smirking..
(Ken) "Well I'm just in survival mode,I don't care about anyone sex is just sex..I haven't met the right one yet I thought you were her" I want to be married but married to the right person!!

Ken you can't Love someone until you Love yourself!! Ken you are wearing me out I have nothing to show you nothing to prove..Nothing I did to you made you go and have an affair.

As far as I'm concerned It was no affair,we weren't married anymore...you stopped showing me You cared about my dreams.I'm just dating!!

Ken,ya know someone I know....... told me I would get to a point where I would look at you and Grieve the Man you were,and PITTY THE MAN YOU HAVE BECOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm there now
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Mary, please keep venting here....

One for the lessons that I learned is that the family is in most all cases going to stick by their
blood, regardless of what happened, don't expect Kens family to find any fault in what he is doing, they will justify his actions, as he will to himself.

You will shortly get to the point where you realize that you cannot have logical conversation with someone that is in the fog... so there is no point debating/arguing the issues....
What use to work good for me was to just reply.... "sorry you fell that way" that avoids the
debates that you cannot win.

You are doing great, keep up the good work.
Dave

You will shortly get to the point where you realize that you cannot have logical conversation with someone that is in the fog... so there is no point debating/arguing the issues....

Yes,Now I'm really finding that out....
Thanx Dave I'll keep venting,it helps not to pick up the phone and give him a piece of my mind.The urge is so strong but writing is better then doing it!!
I had my first panic attack..my heart felt like it was beating out of my chest. I feel better now but wow was it scary.
His parents and family..I just cannot Beleive they support him like this.But nothings really a shock these days anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BetrayedByMyBestFriend:
<strong>Hey there,

I just had a surprise visit from Husband..he wanted to talk to me.He claimed he was unhappy he didn't miss me but missed our son. "YEAH RIGHT, HE MISSES HIS SON BUT NOT HIS MOTHER?? GIVE ME A BREAK."
That maybe when the waters calm down we could get cousel "WE?? HOW ABOUT YOU DUDE, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO LEFT ME AND OUR SON TO GO PLAY HOOTCHIE-MAMA WITH YOUR HO! I WANT TO DO MARRIAGE COUNSELING WITH YOU AFTER AND ONLY AFTER YOU LEAVE YOUR HO AND RETURN TO REALITY." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ,it's a bunch of mind games!!
Then he stated that the past is the future revisited! "EXCUSE ME? WHAT KIND OF BS IS THAT??! YOU CHOSE YOUR SCREWED-UP FUTURE BECAUSE YOU ARE SELFISH AND CARE ABOUT NOBODY BUT YOUR OWNSELF!"
And he hated the wife I was I was a Bad wife,couldn't cook good,clean good enough ect..he has his list. "OH I SEE - YOU HAVE THIS BS LIST OF CRAPOLA YOU THINK WAS WRONG WITH ME, SO THAT GIVES YOU LICENCE TO JUST CHUCK IT ALL AND GO SLEEP WITH SOME HO AND BREAK ALL YOUR MARRIAGE VOWS TO ME?? WANNA TALK ABOUT LISTS - I THINK WHAT YOU DID IS FAR MORE WORSE THAN ANY IMAGINED WRONGS YOU THINK I HAVE!"
I told him I may have flaws but he had some pretty huge issue's to deal with.
Tears started welling up in his eyes.It's all his game. "GO AHEAD, HUBBY - CRY THOSE CROCIDILE TEARS - YOU'RE NOT FOOLIN' ANYONE, YOU KNOW. GET YOUR OWN TISSUE, OR HAVE YOUR HO GET ONE FOR YOU!"
Then he says I wanted you..but the other ladies are like you used to be~~~~ "OTHER LADIES? YOU'RE BLIND, DUDE! I'M STILL THE SAME WIFE YOU ONCE PLEDGED TO LOVE, HONOUR, CHERISH, AND HAVE FOR LIFE - WHAT HAPPENED??"
I said Ken I miss the Old you too,he will forever be in my-heart not the man who called me every name in the book,and hit me. "THAT SUCKS - HE'S AN ABUSER TOO!"
I know I know we all did screwed up things.
Ken you do not love us enough If you did you would be getting help right now and would of left the realationships.
He left. "LIARS CAN'T FACE THE TRUTH. SO THEY RUN, AS USUAL..."

Hmmmmm The Past is the future revisited...(ya if you don't deal with your demons).What do you think???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Mary, regarding the panic attacks, please get some help now if this is your first one, they can become very serious if you don't get them under control... in most cases you can control them without medicane but it takes getting some help from someone that is a specialist in that area... I had panic attacks for about 10 years before I finally learned to handle them... They
are physically harmless, although they do not feel like it at the time, but emotionally they can be devestating.Take care,
Dave

Thanx DJ t bird You Had me rolling on the floor!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

yEAH RIGHT, HE MISSES HIS SON BUT NOT HIS MOTHER?? GIVE ME A BREAK."

"WE?? HOW ABOUT YOU DUDE, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO LEFT ME AND OUR SON TO GO PLAY HOOTCHIE-MAMA WITH YOUR HO! I WANT TO DO MARRIAGE COUNSELING WITH YOU AFTER AND ONLY AFTER YOU LEAVE YOUR HO AND RETURN TO REALITY."
"EXCUSE ME? WHAT KIND OF BS IS THAT??! YOU CHOSE YOUR SCREWED-UP FUTURE BECAUSE YOU ARE SELFISH AND CARE ABOUT NOBODY BUT YOUR OWNSELF!"
And he hated the wife I was I was a Bad wife,couldn't cook good,clean good enough ect..he has his list. "OH I SEE - YOU HAVE THIS BS LIST OF CRAPOLA YOU THINK WAS WRONG WITH ME, SO THAT GIVES YOU LICENCE TO JUST CHUCK IT ALL AND GO SLEEP WITH SOME HO AND BREAK ALL YOUR MARRIAGE VOWS TO ME?? WANNA TALK ABOUT LISTS - I THINK WHAT YOU DID IS FAR MORE WORSE THAN ANY IMAGINED WRONGS YOU THINK I HAVE!"
I"GO AHEAD, HUBBY - CRY THOSE CROCIDILE TEARS - YOU'RE NOT FOOLIN' ANYONE, YOU KNOW. GET YOUR OWN TISSUE, OR HAVE YOUR HO GET ONE FOR YOU!"
Then he says I wanted you..but the other ladies are like you used to be~~~~ "OTHER LADIES? YOU'RE BLIND, DUDE! I'M STILL THE SAME WIFE YOU ONCE PLEDGED TO LOVE, HONOUR, CHERISH, AND HAVE FOR LIFE - WHAT HAPPENED??"
"THAT SUCKS - HE'S AN ABUSER TOO!"
He left. "LIARS CAN'T FACE THE TRUTH. SO THEY RUN, AS USUAL..."

Hmmmmm The Past is the future revisited...(ya if you don't deal with your demons).What do you think???

I had panic attacks for about 10 years before I finally learned to handle them... They
are physically harmless, although they do not feel like it at the time, but emotionally they can be devestating.

10 yEARS WOW I can't imagine....I checked with my doctor and she thought it might be an anxity attack..she going to try putting me on wellbutrin..

~~~~BuMP~~~~~

glad you are getting some help with the anxiety.. it is pretty normal to get panic/anxiety durning this period of time.. it will get better! Hope you are doing well.
Dave

Thanx Dave...I'm hanging in here.
I got in the mail Surviving an affair and his needs her needs.And have started reading through them,I would like to do the phone counseling with Dr Harley....does anyone know if there's a wait how soon can they get to you?I'm sure they are sooooo busy,but I think it would be good to speak with one of them.
I know I need to get rid of this guy,and it would feel wonderful to know without a shadow of a doubt I tried everything..
He stopped by on halloween to see our son for 10 min on his lunch break.I can't beleive how he's missing out on this kids life!! My(our) son was coloring..and he made a comment on so he's right handed.
Yup,and he can now say words Ken!! I can tell that our son doesn't understand that Kens his dad he thinks my dad is his dad.He's shy around Ken now very distant.
Then Ken called last night at 10pm to ask me if I was getting any of his mail.And to make me feel bad that I wasn't paying his bills.You left me with all of rent to pay and now I have to work extra blah blah...then he says he has to go after 5 min....
My Hate Bank is way high right now I can't stand to look at him anymore~~~

Just to Keep my mind on track that STBX is Not thinking about me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I thought I would type the love letters I found before Leaving our place.What is crazy is he used to write me love letters and songs same words more in deepth letters...but it's healing for me to do this..so here goes

Letter to Marcy from Ken (Marcy is the first Ow..who is now divorcing her husband after he had an affair on her)

(Marcy)
I like to hold you I like To keep an angel by myside.

Found that in his wallet..

Sept 12th 2002 To Marcy from Ken
Tonight I sit underneath a blanketed sky
of stars thinking by the time you get this letter THE MOMENT WILL SURELY HAVE PAST..THAT IS...WERE I AM NOW.
I sit here in a dazed confusion of Love,Fustration,and Hope.In my mind I'm looking back at past Memories like a door Left blown open by a winter storm.I sit here shivering because I am cold.I'm cold only by the thought that I am not with you now.
I dream about warm summer nights that I miss.I miss the way your silky hair blows in the wind.
As I listen to the waves crashing beside us.Holding you this close and feeling you breathe alows my soul to melt upon your soft lips.What do I do now? What do I say? My mind is left rushing for answers,because you make me feel a way I have never felt before.
I touch your velvet skin and pray---I can live like this again.I stand holding onto you listening to your heart and giving into your suductive brown eyes.I am in Heaven..everything I've ever hoped,dreamed,and wished for was in my arms that night.I sit now again thinking.
Another door has opened in my mind.One that shines bright with sunshine and a gateway to a white picket fence,and a house of Love,a Lifetime of Happyness.This door however cannot be walked through tonight.It remains a promise of hope for days to come.I sit here with my eyes closed revisioning your laugh,your smile ,your sent.In everything I do,Everywhere I go,I am in constant remembrance of you.How I could wish I could only wrip apart a page out of time to experance you again,the way I have today.How I wish I could pull back time to just see you again,now ,in this moment.
I understand good things come in time and that patients is a virtue to Love Life and everything that matters...so here i sit thinking of you Goodnight you girl I love you

Here's one from Star the OW he is very involved with now as well.... The Fog must do REALLY WIERD THINGS TO PEOPLES HEADS

(she's 20 and a cop of all things**comes from a very wealthy family..buys him everything)

Sept 2002

Dear Ken,
Well Hey! How are you? I am just Amazed that you dropped me off about 10 min ago,and I am already missing you..like it's been days.I have this undescribable intimate connection with you that touches me in ways I have never been touched before.I am infatuated with you Ken.It's crazy to think how life and love work themselves out,but at the sametime it's so breathtaking and beautiful.It's just extremely strange timing how some people and there significant others come together these days.But I like it!!

It keeps life Real and interesting,the way it should be.I trust my feelings and I trust my life.Therefore I truly believe it would be a huge mistake for me not to be with you,because I refuse to fight what is meant to be.When I think about you which is constantly I feel intimately weak.Like the exact way when you kiss me.
I melt when I think of the way you hold my face when you kiss me.The way you look into my eyes when your done kissing me.Ken I feel like I have already made love with you.I can't even believe the intensity gets stronger and stronger..more intimate.We have so many wonderful things in common,but just enough differances to make things interesting.I think everything is perfect that is your perfect for me.
I want to take all your pain away because I don't think it's fair for a person as great as you are should be hurting the way you are.Well here I will leave you at this -I will never hurt you.And I don;t make promises I can't keep.After all while no ones watching us why don't we just do it in the road.
See you friday
Love Star Serene
P.s I am so glad you came into my life slowy but surely your becoming my life!

What A Stud <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Is this CRAZY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> How in Gods name can he feel like this about two women....I just wanna copy them and send them to both ow....so bad!!!

<small>[ November 02, 2002, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: BetrayedByMyBestFriend ]</small>

Bump

Mary, no need to copy and send them the letter, they will get what they deserve in time, that I am sure of.
What is amazing is that these OW think that he is not going to do the same thing to them as he has done to you. They will find out in time, for sure.

This is all fog babble... sorry you have to be a part of it.

The books you received are very good, but they are mainly for saving your marriage but they are also good for personal knowledge.

Take care,
Dave

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Just needed to Vent alittle.
I got a flat tire while driving,had to pull off.Didn't have my cell on me...it was snowing/cold...had to walk to a house to call...a tow truck.The tears started falling,I wanted so bad to call Ken and say come save me.
I had no one to call everyone was at work,so I sat and sat then the guy put the tire on and I drove home.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's been a weird day

Sorry you had a bad day but look on the bright side... you managed to get the situation resolved by yourself, you didn't give in and call for his assistance, you resolved this on your own. You are getting stonger day by day. There will be many ups and downs on your road to recovery, but it will get better. Be proud of what you have accomplished....

PS... I tried your link but it states access denined when it opens up Yahoo..

Take care,
Dave

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Good grief the ups and downs of Divorce.Today was better.I just can't wait until a week goes by and I don't think of him at all!!
Trying to stay busy,but he's still on my mind 24/7.
I'm glad you told me about the link I changed it to public viewing now so it should work!!
Let me know if it doesn't please

Thanx,
Mary