My point is if you want a divorce, file. If you do NOT want a divorce, don't file.

If she files, then you can only delay it (in hopes that she will "wake up" before it is complete) or agrree & get it over.

<small>[ November 30, 2002, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</small>

As has been said many times here, you can tell by someones actions what the truth is.

A person with a rational mind won't injure themself, or attempt suicide. It also follows that other things said are not rational or true.

Neil, perhaps you have made some mistakes, but I don't believe you need to worry about that now. Just continue to arrange care and protection for your self and your daughters. Don't let the painful comments get to you, In fact, I recommend you don't even talk to her about those things. Stick to subjects that have to be talked about ( visits for the children) and hang up about everything else. Actually, you are a nice man and may have a hard time doing that, but it would be good for you. Please don't worry about the things you hear from her, just keep on.

SS

Today is a thoroughly miserable day. It is my wedding anniversary. Would have been 13 years today. Hell it is 13 years today we are legally married after all if not emotionally.

Haven't slept a wink last night, and am shaking to the bone with nerves. Didn't think it would get to me so bad. Even texted my wife to ask about how we could have ever gotten to this point and whether there could be anything done for reconciliation.

December Jan, Feb is going to be very hard for me, I have so many dates and triggers to get thru, I thought I'd be further along than I am. After all who wants to go to MC alone on their Wedding Anniversary <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Neil.

Neil

I have been thinking about you today, but only just found the time to post.

Your sadness, is palpable, and I wish there was something I could say that would make it better.

OK, go to Relate tonight, then, maybe buy yourself a nice bottle of wine, or whatever tipple you may fancy, and toast yourself and your W. Toast the good times, the fact that you have 3 beautiful girls, and that you had some happy times and memories. Do not dwell on the sadness of her illness, your DV, or the pain you are feeling. Do whatever it takes to try and remain positive, and try not to text her again. You know that was probably not a good move last night, given that she has been feeling very down again. Call a friend, watch a film, do whatever it takes to.

Neil, I am sending you positive vibes from North London and wishing you a peaceful evening.

Lisa

Neil,

I ususally post on GQII, however,i saw your bottom line, Twin girls, HUH. I'm a twin and i got to see her this weekend, what peace. many prayers for your recovery. I read your story and i think you must must must take care of you and your girls. Sometimes, there is nothing you can do. I teach school special ed, and one of the first things i learned in the classroom, was to accept what i could not change. When people are mentally ill. Their perception (although it changes often) is their reality. And it may never change. Ddon't react to it don't argue with it, don't try and convince them that they are wrong, just chat back at who they seem to be at the moment and then ***** Protect yourself. Protect your children. Love them like their is no tomorrow. hugs and kisses to them X2.

My Anniversary turned out kinda weird. My youngest D called W in the evening and said she was ill unbeknown to me (she was in bed and I was on the phone). So my W arrived and calmed them down. That was hard, we were both stuggling with the day.

Somedays I wonder if I am doing the right thing but I cant see any other way through this. At times I have such resolve and others none. It was particularly heartbreaking seeing my youngest so upset, it cuts to the core and being a dad trying this just makes it harder.

We briefly discussed xmas and xmas gifts for them which was a good job we did otherwise everything would have been doubled up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> and then there were tears on both sides as Xmas means the first times alone in 15 years. We managed for once to stay reasonably calm and whilst upset got thru.

My MC says that I have spent to long trying to protect the women in my life and I need to let my W go as she has wanted to do throughout this situation, first with the first A then with the hospital etc and then with the 2nd A yet it seems so wrong to me that you should not want to look after and protect someone who is low and ill?

Anyway today is a new day and I have the financial mediation to prepare for later.

Best wishes Neil.

Neil-

I had to let you know how sorry I am to hear how things are going for you and your family. I know how you feel when you mention your internal struggles with letting your W go. I'm in the same position and am finding it really hard to give her the D as she seems so broken. Some days it seems like it's totally "do-able", then I notice some little knick knack of hers in the house and the sad feelings come rushing back. Hang in there and know that all of your suffering will be rewarded one day with equal amounts of happiness.

-G

Neil

I think that sometimes the realisation that you cannot cure/support/make it all better for those you hold most dear to you, is very dificult to accept, and in letting go, it is incredibly painful. But you know that this is what must be.

In your recent post your WW has talked about moving out from OM, and if this is the case these will all be positive things to help her get better. You can't make her better, only she can.

Whilst a sad evening and time for both of you, it seems like there was a new (maybe temporary) undertanding. I do hope so for all your sakes.

Hang in there, and wishing you well from North London.

Lisa

You are trying to break the abuse cycle. She has been abusing YOU.

She does something irrational, or just plan wrong, and then she blames you. Like the D, she says she can't believe you are doing this, and that because of it, you have hurt her so much she won't ever consider being with you again.

HELLO, she wasn't there to begin with, and showed no signs of being there. You need to break the cycle of her doing something wrong, and blaming you, or it will happen over and over again. If she is ever serious about wanting help you could still help her get help.

If she leaves OM and asks for treatment, and says she wants to try again ( with all the behivours that show you she is for real,) than you can date her and start over again. Right now she has done none of those things, and shows no sign of doing them. It's in the actions, not the words. Don't be fooled again.

It is hard to know someone needs help and not help them, but if they get up off the gurney, and run out in the street and you have no way to get them to come back, what can you do?

Neil, if the actions ever match the words (consistantly over time) then you can help again. If not, protect yourself.

BTW, you are the only one I have ever said to in all the time I have been on MB, in all other cases I have suggested the BS work harder to make the M work. I feel your case is that much different and that you need to look after your own health and welfare.

SS

<small>[ December 03, 2002, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

I went to "Financial Mediation" yesterday with an "unbiased" mediator. Before my wife entered the room I was hammered. You would have thought I was a villain and a cheat. This mediator absolutely crushed me. I do not know how I sat there. I came home and threw up. I went thinking this was a last ditch effort to reconcile.

My WW doesnt understand that I feel I have tried, she doesnt understand that I feel smashed and things like this rather than go thru the Solicitor route are so very hard. I feel like I have tried, I have invited her to MC for the first 6 weeks of our Separation and she turned me down every time.

Next week we will have been separated three months and in my view we have just hurt each other more and more even though we are trying to stay apart (we have kids that have to be arranged). I have not felt that she has made any attempt to show me what a reconciled life could be, no I love yous, no I need yous etc except a few that followed crisis situations for her or after verbally bashing me. She hates me writing here and reads it all. Right now I am so low I am just trying to get through each day. I was so much more positive weeks ago, its like I've stepped right back. What am I doing wrong? Neil.

I went thinking this was a last ditch effort to reconcile.

My WW doesnt understand that I feel I have tried

I feel like I have tried,

I have not felt that she has made any attempt to show me what a reconciled life could be, no I love yous, no I need yous

What am I doing wrong?

I could say a lot here but I won't.
Even though you say you don't wnat one, you are the one who filed for divorce. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but it is YOUR decision. When you made it, you are the one who has to deal with the outcome, good or bad.

If you did it to force a decision from her, then it seems to have worked. It's not what you wanted but that is the problem with trying to force someones hand. You play your hand, really, really hoping they will "wake up" but they don't.

My advice. Tell your wife you don't want a divorce (if that is what you want) and you are willing to put it on hold IF she is willing to do something for the marriage. Tell her you will put it on hold for a few months to sort all the feelings out.

MB principles are to help you through marriage crisis, whether the marriage survivies or not. Have you had any counseling with the Harleys at all? I'd recommend at least one call to see what he says.

Neil,

Sometimes there just isn't anything to say. Sorry that things went so badly for you.

Thinking of you and wishing you well from North London.

Lisa

Lisa, thanks.

Chris, I sense you feel like you want to have a go at me for your view that I am getting what I wanted by filing for divorce. I am sorry you feel that way perhaps you don't really know my story. You wont find the full depth of it as most of the entries have had to be deleted because my wife was physically cutting herself on reading them or other selfdestructive behaviour. Even now she reads what I write and cannot understand the help I get here.

In answer to your question yes I have had alot of counselling from Steve H. This divorce isn't about the normal breakdown of a marriage because of an affair. Its about limiting the damage to myself, our girls and my wife. If we carried on as we were one of us would be dead and I mean that in all seriousness.

Neil.

My most sincere apologies if this came out wrong. I think I'm getting the wrong message across to you. I'm not trying to dog on you. You seem to be doing everything okay/correct (in my extremely humble opinion.)
Chris, I sense you feel like you want to have a go at me for your view that I am getting what I wanted by filing for divorce.
You are getting, not necessarily what you want, but what you asked for. And you seem to have done this for good (acceptable?) reasons.

I understand what you are going through, though I do not know your whole story (not in need of explanation unless you want to.)

Its about limiting the damage to myself, our girls and my wife

I guess until she does something for her behavior then it is about the only thing you can do.

My WW doesnt understand that I feel I have tried, she doesnt understand that I feel smashed and things like this rather than go thru the Solicitor route are so very hard. I feel like I have tried, I have invited her to MC for the first 6 weeks of our Separation and she turned me down every time.
My point is you filed (for whatever reasons, good or bad) and she possibly/probably sees it as since you filed for divorce you do not want reconciliation. Therefore don't be alarmed when she doesn't "wake up."
This is not to say you aren't gonna hurt through it all.

Sometimes you have to do things (file for divorce in this instance) even though it is not necessarily what you want. But it may be what you HAVE to do.

I feel as if you are doing what you should be but then you act suprised when she acts like she is. Throw in her behavior problems on top of that and it's a real powderkeg.

I do indeed wish the best for you and your family. Remember, sometimes the best is not what we want.

Did I get my meaning across okay?

p.s. I'll leave you alone now.

<small>[ December 04, 2002, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</small>

Thanks Chris, yes I understand what you are saying and yes I hold myself responsible for the DV decision no one else. It is the only way thru I see and I have discussed it at length with MC's here in the UK and in the US. So don't worry about your replies.

I asked my W only the other day in complete openness "what do you want" and again as I have always had no reply. It is time for me and the girls to move on. Best Wishes Neil.

Now I am in a mess again because my W wants me to decide if I want her home. I cant answer that question. I am way to afraid of it all happening over again now that I've got myself feeling strong I feel like I am being hammered down again. Neil.

Okay, so I won't leave you alone (yet.) But not to hammer on ya'.

What a dilemma.

Perhaps you could tell her it is something you MIGHT consider if;

- Tell her you are NOT in any way going to put up with what has happened in the past.

- she actually gets counseling for (anger management, child abuse, etc.) and only after she has been in counseling for xx months.

- marriage counseling

- anything else which may be/have been a problem.

Maybe this is something you want to consider, maybe not.

I wish you & yours well Neil.

Something like that might be considered but there is no indication of any desire or love from her side for me anymore. Its almost like she should come home just for the sake of it. Harley told me actions are more important and there aren't any actions. I am so tired that I just don't concentrate on it anymore. Neil.

Well Neil this is an interesting development. Could you perhaps get a phone session with Steve H for some help on this?

I think you would need to set some very clear boundaries. Moving out from OM2 would be a good start. Is there perhaps somewhere in between that she could go, or rent a place for say 6 months? Also, you are right about actions and she must definitely show you a commitment to want to work through her illness. Neil, she probably can't show you any love at the moment, because of fear of rejection, and you would both have a long road to travel.

Neil, I really don't know what to say, although I have sensed from some of your recent posts that you would really rather not DV and have been wondering whether there is any hope of reconciliation.

Don't make any rush decisions (either way), think about what your boundaries would be and perhaps talk to your W about why now and why she wants to come back.

Wishing you well from North London
Lisa

I have asked why now, and got no answer. I expect its just the Xmas period as it is very emotional. What it has shown me is that I cannot chase her anymore. I have been hurt over and over. I really don't want to have to try and win her over or anything like that. There is no desire or love on her part, and I no longer know what I feel other than numb and shutdown.

I am concentrating on myself, on my kids, on trying to have a nice Xmas in a month literally filled with bad triggers. I want my W to be OK I really do but I cannot pay much attention to the occasional text. I am also sorry to say that I am wondering positively now what life would be like with someone new. As for Steve H that was fairly well covered in a prior call which was there needs to be a plan and there needs to be comfort. There is no plan and there is no comfort. Not in an angry way from me but in a "given up" way and a desire to protect myself.

Neil.