Neil,
In busines and USUALLY in our families we deal with people who are trying to solve problems. When we speak with someone we both are searching for solutions even though we differ in what we want the outcome to be.

You are dealing with someone that is not seeking a solution, but wants to cast blame so that they need not feel bad for what they have done. You are dealing with someone that instead of seeking to analize the problem, and find a solution, tries to change the subject. She has found many high profile ways to change it, but that is all that is being done.
You can't reason with someone that is not reasonable, even if you love them.

You may have faults ( we all do) but you didn't cause this, and I don't believe you can fix it. I would say it is out of your control. I think you need to stop beating your self up and give yourself a rest. Please find some things to be happy about this next week and in doing so, help your girls be happy.
Just for fun, I should tell you that I have twin daughters that are 9.

SS

Neil,

My wife also said that I shouldn't be
'airing out our dirty laundry' on this website. She was furious that I chose to write here and was even more furious because I told the truth about us and how this has all come about. I took my responsibility but also put her responsibility out in the open. She has lied to everyone of her friends and family about this whole thing. Trying to make it into a 'just couldn't get along. Weren't good for each other.' type of thing. But she reads this site, for heaven's sake I don't know why. She hasn't done anything to work on herself and our marriage. I have never said anything that I don't know is true. I have never lied about anything about our marriage, but I think that is why it hurts her so much. She feels that the truth is more hurtful than if I lied and made it worse. Then she could just say I was lying and not see any of the truth.

Wayward spouses are all the same. They are the worst sort of person in that they disregard the one thing that they should hold most dear. They throw away respect. For themselves, their spouses, their families, and their friends. They say that they 'Need things that (we) can't give them.' Yet they continually look and look over and over again. It is truly sad, and they may never see. However, it is clear that what they are doing hurts themselves to a much less degree than those that care for them. Otherwise there is no way in hell that a person could ever do what they do. One moment of feeling what my son feels would tear my wife apart, yet she has no qualms about hurting them 'for their own good'.

Hang tough. The last couple days have been hard for me as well. Mostly because my children have been saying things like, 'I just want to stay with you.' Then they say They want us to be back together. Then question whether we love each other. How is Christmas going to work? All of these questions I have no answer for. I am their FATHER for goodness sakes. I am SUPPOSED to answer their questions, and yet the biggest questions of all I am forced to hold back or LIE to them in order to protect them. Isn't that just sad. Having to lie to your children about their mother just to save them from having to understand the truth about her. I would die if I had ever done something that made someone lie to my children to keep from hurting them. I just don't know how she can live with herself.

But it is no longer my responsibility to try. I understand what you are saying completely. Although, I think that I am a bit further along in the process, I still have times where I wish that this would all just go away and I would come home and be with my entire family again. Actually I wish that all the time, but not with the same woman that she is now. I would never take the woman that she is now into my life in any form. But her as a working woman would be different. Christian values and repentance would be excellent.

We must stick together Neil. I feel for you with every word you write.

Stay strong.

Today is D-Day#1 1 year on of my WW's first PA. It's been a very weird day with some weird emotions, really centered around feeling very numb. In many respects I am thoroughly amazed at what has gone on this year and sadly at the outcome that has arisen. I thought I'd write down a ramble of my feelings so that my story was listed somewhere because large numbers of my postings on MB's had to be deleted.

To cut a very long story short I have tried to get through my W's 2 PAs with OM1 & 2, a new OM3, 4 months of hospitalisation in a psych ward including three weeks in a totally secure unit, way to long in ER, months of self mutilation (cutting and stabbing) on an almost daily basis, drinking to collapse, so many suicide attempts and runaways that I have lost count, stitching wounds, verbal abuse, so much blood, snooping, further molestation, child abuse memories so horrific, numerous other things and above all the self destruction of the woman I loved.

This day a year ago 12 years of M went down the drain. A year later I am along way through the Divorce process, expecting to be finalised in March 2003. Whilst my Family, my W and I have been through hell we have not been able to recover our M. I have counselled alone with Steve H, and have spent months going to a UK based MC - Relate. Whilst I've tried my damnedest my W has given up. Ultimately the pain of her Child Abuse memories, my inability to hide or remove my pain of the A's whilst supporting her, and the constant extreme crisis behaviour has proved to much.

A year on I find myself still believing in MB principles and of the support this site has given despite her deeming it "Marriage Wreckers". Perhaps as Steve H said the principles of trying to rebuild are to great when facing so much mental pain as what she has had and at times continues to have. My M, my children, and myself are casualties of that war.

I have learnt that it IS better to have loved and lost than not to have loved at all. I have learnt that when faced with the most devastating of situations you have a choice to curl up and die or keep going through. You have to do the latter.

I regret as a BS many of the things I did, the LB's, the initial poor Plan A, the struggles through Plan B but above all I regret the loss of a woman I loved so much for so long.

A year on, triggers no longer bother me, they no longer set me off, my panic attacks have gone and the physical distress is over. I still feel tired and numb and pained at the situation. I still harp on about what might have been, what more I could have done, and how my family could be a family again. All to no avail. As a man I have learned that emotional loss is far worse than the PA. That a PA is hard but loss of love and the loss of the person is harder.

My W is, in her words, extremely hurt by me, and therefore never could attempt reconciliation nor MC. I have hurt her too much. A trait I see here of many situations where the BS & WS are unable to recover. Blame lies at the door of the BS and no forum exists within the interaction of the WS to deal with overcoming that. Truth is though it takes two to make it work and when one is so adamantly against it there is unlikely to be a recovery. I lift my hat to the WS here trying to recover, you do your BS's a great service just by attempting to put things right.

This end of year I shall try and celebrate that I have got through the year, that the new cannot and will not be worse than that gone before. That I will get through my Divorce and on with my life with the little modicum of dignity, pride and integrity I have left. That my life and my 3 Girls are my priority and everything else is secondary.

I have seen that there is life out there beyond my W, and whilst it pains me to say I believe that I can be happy away from her with, in time, another woman. That already women are talking to me and making me feel good about myself. I am seeing some on a friendship basis once a fortnight to rebuild my self esteem and look toward life beyond divorce. When you have hit the wall so many times alone letting go is incredibly hard when your head says "yes you must" and your heart (and your kids) say "no please try again". Be wary of that and try to go with the head or forever lose your heart.

When I now feel low about what she's doing or what I have lost I try and remember all that I have tried to do to get through and the specific things I have seen, it gives me a small amount of resolve to keep going when she has done nothing to try and work on us. OM3 is now on the scene and I hope in time, somehow that she finds happiness, it just should have been ours.

I still believe that M is right, sacred and worthwhile and therefore I will still be here trying to go forward believing that at some time, at some point, not yet, it will end and it will be better.

Neil.

This week has been horrendous. The kids have been very upset, there seems no calming them sometimes.

My emotions are in overdrive, one minute ok then the next like all of today tears constantly with no abating them. Felt like a trainwreck. Is this how its supposed to be? and for how long? I would do anything right now to try and keep my W, but as she says thats not what she wants. Neil.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Porsche 911 996C2:
<strong>My emotions are in overdrive, one minute ok then the next like all of today tears constantly with no abating them. Felt like a trainwreck. Is this how its supposed to be? and for how long?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is very typical. How long varies according to the person and the situation. I was in a state of shock for about two months, although the worst of it was during the first week or two. Almost two-and-a-half years later I still get triggered daily (post-traumatic shock, my psychotherapist calls it), although the roller-coaster runs more smoothly now.

I guess I've gotten used to the pain.

One important lesson I've learned: it is possible to be happy in spite of and in the midst of my pain. I don't worry any more about how long that pain is going to last, and frankly I don't expect it to ever really go away. It doesn't matter, since I know I can be happy anyway.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Formerly Confused:
<strong>Porsche,

I understand completely. The pain of letting go is almost insurmountable. And not only that, but the guilt of feeling that 'you can see, but she can't YET' makes it feel as though you are the only responsible one of the two of you. I understand completely. My wife has continually attacked me over and over again, and yet, I still feel responsible for her. I don't know why. I guess that it is because she is someone that I cared so deeply for. Someone that 6 months ago I would have laid down my life for in an instant, and that was after knowing about her repeated infidelity. I loved her completely and unconditionally. That is all. Now as time passes and continued attacks and realizations occur, I understand more and more that my feelings for her matter not one bit to her.

She claims to respect and care for me, but she has shown the most disrespect for me by returning to an affair then wanting a divorce. She simply acts, to me, insane. She said before when she wanted to come back in February, "Please, don't let our marriage end because of my insanity." She was speaking about her inability to see that holding another man in her heart caused her to act and react differently to situations in our life together. She seemed to finally understand, but that faded very quickly. She once again began loosing her 'grip' on reality and fell back into her adultery then wanted out.

I understand, because this does seem once again like insanity. But try as I might, she will not let me help her back to her family. She refuses to go to counseling, under the auspices of no money. Even though I have told her over and over again that I would pay for whoever, whenever. I said don't do it for me or even us, but do it for you and the boys. I think she is afraid of what she will find out about herself. I think that in her heart she is sorry about all this. I hope that she wishes it had not happened, but she has never said that to me at all.

It seems that I can see so much more about how she is killing her life and in the process destroying our family. But she is whole head into going through with it, and now I am ambivelant. I once was adamantly opposed, but you know what. I realized that I am not a choice. Our family is not a choice. Our children are not a choice. She feels that she has the choice, but it is an obligation in my opinion. When we married, we became obligated to each other in front of man, our families, and God. She does not feel the same, and that is OK. If she feels that being responsible for her family is less important that her own carnal pleasure, then that is a good thing for me to know and understand right now. I don't want to live a life of lies any longer. I have changed in every way that I can, and she has decided that it is not enough. That is OK.

I have made a huge step in letting go this weekend. I realized right in the middle of a 12 hour day, that I had already lost everything that I am ever going to loose from this. I will not loose anything else, so everything from here on out is building a new life with my boys. There is no longer any tearing down of an old life. Straining to hold onto strands of memories with her and our family. I have embarked on my new life and I plan on making it a great one. I will make the best of every moment with my children. I will make the best of every moment with myself.

Understanding that I have already lost everything that I will loose with this divorce was a truly enlightening experience. And it was all due to a phone call with a friend. That is all, but that is everything.

I don't have any words of wisdom for letting go. I know exactly how you feel, and the example of the castle wall is EXACTLY how I have felt for so long. I kept opening the door only to have it slammed in my face. But I think finally the hinges broke, and I have no more desire to open the door anymore.

I think that another reason that I felt so concerned about her was that I wanted and felt responsible to my children to 'put us back together' regardless of the price. I actually would still prefer to have our family intact, obviously, however, I have realized that it is not ONLY my responsibility, and after having killed myself over and over again. After having debased myself and done everything in my power and then some, that no matter what, I still cannot make her do anything, nor even desire to try.

I felt that since I was 'sane' and she obviously was not, that my boys were relying on me to make things right. Well, I think that now I have finally realized that 'right' may not be with her. I think that right may be with a woman that can show committment and love unconditionally. That right may be having someone else as a rolemodel for a wife. She can be their rolemodel for their mother. But maybe I can find someone worthy of showing my children how to be a great husband to a great wife. That is my responsibility now. I must show my boys that they don't have to make the mistakes that their mother and I did. That they can choose their way better than we did. That they can take the road of strength rather than self indulgence.

With these thoughts, I have found the ability to let go easier and easier. I have refound a purpose in my life. Where once my purpose was to get through my education so that we could live the good life as a family. I now have replaced that thought with living my life now, and making it good. Not waiting for tomorrow, which we did so many years.

I feel sad for my wife. She did work for a good life together in the beginning. She just gave up on it at the end, and refused to come back and work at it. She chose to leave our family for her own gain. Now I am not sure whether she has gained anything at all. But she continues to choose this path, and I will not try to change it any longer. It is no longer my priority. Building my new life with my boys is my priority. This thought is what has allowed me to let go.

Take care. Use what you find in this for yourself. I was not trying to talk about myself as much as I was trying to explain how I am finding my way in letting go.

We are here for you.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I think your reply was very inspirational. I have not been cheated on in that way but I have similar feelings. My husband left me after 8 months of marriage, with a 4 month old son, and I was 2 months pregnant. GONE WITH THE WIND. I wanted him to leave and he uses that as his excuse. I am angry but I can't let go and he is constantly making me feel guilty so that I won't. I am trying to make a new life for myself but it seems impossible with him around. Sometimes I wish he would leave me alone completely, it seems that would make things easier.

Neil

Just wanted to wish you and yours a peaceful and hopefully enjoyable Christmas.

Thank you for all your support, and sending you my very best wishes from North London.

Lisa

I think the notion of letting go is to protect yourself from further heart ache. Unfortunately for me, I waited for WH to "get it" for too long and now I have absolutely no feelings of love for him and have actually started to hate him. I do need to work through my anger and bitterness and let go of those feelings before they destroy ME.

Happy holidays, all!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi all, got thru the Holidays pretty good. I really struggled the week before xmas that was really hard. It was my 1 year time period.

Xmas was nice, the girls had some troubles and upsets because their Mum was upset so they didn't have much time with her, they came home early in fact. Next up New Years Eve. Regards Neil.

I can really relate to your posts here and have found the discussion very supportive. I chose Plan B yesterday and my WH responded by eagerly agreeing to the separation. That is not the response I wanted or expected. I was HOPING that he would agree to my insistence to stop all contact with the OW in order for us to stay together. He indicated that he doesn't love me anymore. I don't want to believe him. He did not act that way Xmas Eve night when he was so loving to me. He also gave me a great Xmas present. However, I know that he saw her the day after Xmas after picking a fight with me; this led to the decision to resort to PLAN B.

My greatest sorrow today is that I saw her for the first time this morning. It was a coincidence so maybe it was meant to be that I saw her. My WH is 49; she looks about 25. When she saw me drive by her in my car, she ran in the house she was visiting. How immature!

After all this, I still am wishing for a call from my husband, stating that he has had a change of heart and wants to be with me and the kids.

I can't believe this is happening! I've had a terrible time making it through the day.

Any help or words of advice would be greatly appreciated.

My H has been gone since October. D filed 12/01/02. This is the 2nd time he is doing this. He came back Jan 02 but for all the wo=rong reasons. I found OW with him more than once the weeks following his move home. He stayed gone every evening except to come home to sleep on floor. Last yr was hell fighting with him denying everything. this yr I try not to mention anything.

He stops by or calls once a week to see if all is ok. Acts all like a sad little boy & acts in a way to get my sympathy & make me feel sorry for him & I do, darn it. But without his maybe realizing what he is doing, it IS a ploy. He does not know that I know for sure, him & OW are still in contact VERY MUCH. That I know jsut last week or so she went to his place & took medicine to him, bringing her kid (divorced her H last year while in affair with mine). My H REFUSES to tell me WHERE HE LIVES!! I only have cell phone & most of time he does not answer it, only calls back later. GRR. He vehemently denis anything with OW antime I even hint at it, and gets nasty with me blaming ME for stuff etc. Since he holds our house over my head as a threat so often (to "take it away"), I remain silent. He is to sign house over to me. I remain silent.

What I really want to do is let it rip! But I cannot reveal my sources & he would know who they were! Even though I know most ugly details and saw his truck at her place SO MANY times, he still denies it.

I should hate him. I should have no problem "letting go". ONly I havent been able to. He makes me doubt my own eyes. But as everyone has said, I cant make him change or choose. I cant make him see he has psych. problems & has changed radically for the worst since being with OW and how I know what is true & he still twists our whole history into something bitter & horrible & all not true.

I feel like I could only let go by hating him and I cant. How do I let go of the past memories of 15 yrs of us being everything to each other. Neither of us has family. Neither had prior "relations" & were each others first and everything.

But as someone said previously, if I could get outside myself & look objectively at how its been the last 2 years: its been awful. We hardly spoke, had awful fights. He lied desperatly, threatened to take all away, said I was a drama queen, my tears were crocodile tears, that I was manipulative. Yelled at me for "spying on him" cause I caught him with OW a few times I intentionally did check on him. Screaming at me, throwing things, tearing cards & photos & putting them in trash --most of last yr. Not there at all for me -- this year. He doesnt seem to care most of the time. Not seeing me or spending time with me doesnt bother him. His behaviour & actiosn dont seem wrong to him etc.

So why cant I let go & get on with it? Why do I have a hope he'll change, when really I know he wont. Its too late. I cannot risk another year of lies & betrayal & abandonment & rejection. If he promised me "no contact" & his actions showed he wanted to earn my trust . . then maybe. But no, he says Im crazy & he never had anything to do with OW!! That "It just didnt work out". If I hear that one more time . . I swear!!

Whats it gonna take for me to feel like I'm better off now? I still dont. I just feel alone & abandoned & useless & dumb again. I wish I knew how to "play the game" until I felt it for real - act like I got it all going on - etc. But I cant. I want to fall into a heap and hide. I dont cry in front of him anymore. ANd I have not asked him to come back anymore - I dont want false pretenses AGAIN!! But its so hard! AARGH!! Thanks for listening!

ATW, I can relate so well to your post. I have really been wanting to HATE my WS as he claims that he doesn't want to be with me anymore. He doesn't say that he does not love me unless he's angry. I'm not sleeping or speaking to him right now but he is looking so attractive to me tonignt. I think he knows this. He has been GOOD the past few days, home right after work, etc. That's because I spotted the OW for the first time on Saturday and she was SHOCKED that I know where she lives. She RAN into her house but I'm much too classy to try to hurt her. I'm not sure what my next move will be. I asked my WH to move out if he cannot break off contact. He simply has not responded and has been around the house. Hang in there and let's take it one day at the time.

Porche-

If you feel in your heart of hearts that you are not ready to let go...THEN DON'T. There are in fact some things she could do to have a marital relationship with you and if she did them consistently you may even be happy. Now it may sound like a long shot right this very minute but if you are not ready to let go then don't.

I am your position my friend. I am trying to lovingly distance. I am working on me. And I intend to live very well once this is behind me. They say living well is the best revenge. And although she has hurt me I will unconditionally be her friend. But she will see a strong, happy and confident man and just a tad of aloofness. If you have not read Michele Weiner Davis's book called "Divorce Rememdy" please get it right away. In fact she has a web site. Every bit as interesting as MB. Anyway read about the Last Resort technique and doing a 180. Might help. Hey friend i also have 3 daughters.

Bottom line nobody but you know when to let go. It may feel like you have tried everything, but you probably really haven't. If you are not ready, just be her friend, don't talk about how hurt you are, don't talk about the other man, don't talk about you vows, don't talk about the future. Just be you. Only show her contentment and happiness (even though you feel like dieing inside) I guarntee she will be thrown off guard and from there you can ascertain if your version of the "180" is working. I feel for you buddy. This sucks doesn't it. My oldest daughter said "Daddy why don't you just marry Mommy again"
Breaks your heart!

I would wish this on Osama Bin Laden

Yes Rlyhurtin it does suck. My W knows all about Weiner-Davis, and MB'ers. Doesn't agree with any of it, just that it should be forgive and forget. There have been many instances of her drinking, cutting herself, and running away based on what I wrote her on this site which is why many of my posts are missing.

You could argue that I have given up on her and sometimes in part that may be true, but largely the control of our situation was removed from me and it was her choice to continue a further affair away from the family.

I dont think Weiner-Davis approach is applicable, and DV seems the nature course given the health history and abuse.

Ultimately Letting Go is something done in time and I am not fully there yet. My DV paperwork probably wont be it either, my Mum says I am not fully there yet. I firmly believe that it takes two to rebuild not one as in my case.

New Year was OK, we got thru so here's hoping 2003 is MUCH better.

Neil.

Neil,
I hope you have a much better year, and I can' help but think you really will.

All the best.

SS

Well after struggling yet again this weekend I find myself getting lower and lower.

This may come as a surprise but I really do want to try and recover my M. I have told my W this and have asked her to consider dating me. I have said that the ball is in her court which it is.

I have been fighting this stuff now for months, felt pushed down this road by actions and circumstance and a notion that it was the right thing to do but struggling with it in equal measure also. Given the nature of my issues I think its sensible to try this and hope that she will try and rebuild but we are both scared and of course that brings its own issues.

I do not know if she will agree to try and work on us, she feels a stranger to herself so I can only hope that she will. I am also going to discuss this again with MC tonight to see how I might make things easier for us if we do get that far.

Neil.

Neil

I posted a note on your other thread on GQII - just wanted to let you know that I hope things work out for you whatever you decide.

Lisa

Well I had a long talk with WS at our home today and it's clear that she wants the divorce. She says that there is way to much hurt and resentment on her part towards me to come home or to work on the M.

She is not interested in doing anything towards a recovery, feeling that she is the hurt party, and that there is too much to recover. She wants the divorce to progress as it is.

I have been very very sick today with a bug going around, so this feels even more like a hammerblow. It's me trying to extend the olive branch each time only to get hurt. She constantly throws at me what I write here, its like I am not allowed to have any feelings. Its weird. In the way she acts you would have thought it was me who had the A's.

I followed the advice of my MC last night to try and see a way forward with my W but the door is firmly closed as far as she is concerned.

I really don't have the energy for plan a's or b's or trying to keep going towards a reconciliation. I am a nervous wreck right now its as though I've gone completely backward these past few weeks. My Mum is of the view now that I should just try and get thru the dv and move as painlessly as possible, that my W has no interest in recovery or therefore in me. Thoughts?

Neil.

For those who follow my story here is the latest <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Just Found Out OM4 and Daughter Trouble