I am curious to know what stages of separation and/or divorce a man goes through when he's been unhappily married for many years...left and come back...determined to stay in an emotionless marriage...then, years later, asked to leave? What if you were determined to stay, unhappy or not, but had found someone you really did want to be with (but, broke that off because it was too painful)? Family issues seem to be a biggie here. I need input, please.

x left us after 17 1/2 yrs. Now he was in love with another man wife. If he was unhappy why didnt he say something. You should at least talk with the spouse see what both need to make the M work. Then if both of you cant work it out. Then both should talk about going their own way. There should not be a 3rd person involved with M. After reading replys it seem the wayward spouses dont realize they are unhappy till they meet someone new. They make excuses that they are unhappy & now after years with the spouse they just up & leave. I can understand abuse and wanting to leave that person. There is NO excuse for someone having A. I was unhappy at times in my M, but I never thought about going out & sleeping with someone. I gave H a choice one night her or me, he walked that night. H told friends that I threw him out.

m-17 1/2 yrs
c-13, 29, 8 gd
me-48, x43
d-5-02

ow-32
c-3 under 11
m-10 yrs
d-7-02

sw,

It would be helpful if you could elaborate a little more on your situation in order that we could be of more help to you.

Thanks,

D.

My question remains wanting to know what the stages of ending a longterm marriage for a man is. There is no adulterous affair, but a long-time friendship. There are stages we go through in ending relationships. I was married 25 years and ended my marriage and know from a female perspective. I would think, though, that it would be different for a man. Even though he was unhappy for many years, would it not still be a shock and have an emotional impact on him to be asked to leave when he had resigned himself to remaining in the marriage? After that stage, what next, etc.?

Simply,

From a psychological standpoint men go through the same "stages" women do when ending a longterm relationship. Denial, acceptance, rage. From my perspective (and others) many men in longterm marriages stay, or go back, to the marriage because of several reasons. Those reasons usually always involve family (read children here), assets, responsibility. Responsibility being a big one for responsible men. They can't accept seeing themselves as deserting someone they pledged to stay with. Most women do not have the responsibility issues. At least not at the same level as men. Women feel responsible to ensure a good home and happiness for their children, but not their husbands. That is why so many women end marriages. They don't get stuck on the guilt of leaving him alone in the world. They figure he is a big boy and will take care of himself and find another. Now if you are saying your husband gave up a relationship that made him very fulfilled to come back to the marriage only to have you end it, he will have a very hard time with the divorce. Why? It is simple. He gave up something valuable to him for the marriage. The man will probably be very bitter towards you for a long time.

Is that what you were asking?

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: TheFeminineSide ]</small>

Of course there is an affair involved! Your so called long term friendship is an emotional affair.

To TheFeminineSide: You have clarified what I suspected as to the 'responsibility' issue in that I seem to detect that this is the biggest issue to my friend. Thank you. However, you were wrong on one point as it pertains to my situation. I was very concerned about leaving my husband. I worried about his emotional state and I left him as financially intact as was possible, and he still has assets. I have none. I paid marital bills and left him with his 401(k). Ironically, it was he, after seperation, that immediately found a girlfriend, and is with her still to this day.

To KalGrl: I was very distinct in saying that the "affair" wasn't a physical one, therefore no adultry. It is clearly an emotional affair. Perhaps mostly on my part. I ask for you not to place your bitterness for whatever path your life took to be slammed against me and the question I posed, as I have done nothing wrong or to be ashamed of.

For clarification:

Me: divorced for two and 1/2 yrs, single parent, facing 50, I left my husband because I was emotionally abandoned, but was faithful for 25 years to him. I always earned more money and put more into the marriage and home than he did. He worked all the time. I dealt with every aspect of keeping the home running and the children. I was emotionally devestated to end it, but felt maybe there was hope for a more fulfilling life for me. I was very good to my ex for all those years, but I am human and have faults, as well. He wanted for very little, including sex.

Man: Married over 30 years, emotionally bereft for most of it, left for 6 mo several years ago, kids went crazy, went back, empty marriage, children, grandchildren, job and extended family became most important to him.

"us": Have known each other all our lives, including families, childhood sweethearts, lives went seperate ways for many years, friendship re-established years later, emotional bond for many reasons, friendship and history being important.

I will not deny that I would like to explore a possible relationship with this man. I am trying to determine how much "space" he needs for healing after being asked to leave his home, which he was determined to remain in regardless of the fact that it was emotionally unfulfilling there with his wife. I neither want to encourage him to divorce, or to influence him to stay, as that is his decision. We have very little contact.

So, partially, my question was answered. I would still like more input from a MALE perspective that has been in a similar situation.

Thank you for the responses.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is clearly an emotional affair. Perhaps mostly on my part.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">as I have done nothing wrong or to be ashamed of</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These two statements are incompatible.

Nellie1: Everyone has their own opinion. It's great you have so much wisdom to be able to judge.

If his wife has asked him to leave, my advice is to steer clear of him, limit contact- give him a number of months to clarify issues with his wife. Ideally you should wait until he's divorced before you date him, but if this is not feasible due to length of time, I do think he at least should have FILED for divorce of his own accord or be the recipient of divorce papers from his wife, as well as separated, living on his own.
Getting involved in this volatile situation now is a good way to get your heart broken, and you do not want to be a factor in their D. The only way you can ensure this is by not getting involved with now. Do not talk to him of your feelings for him.

Espoir: You have grasped the essence of the question and responded as I had hoped someone would; with understanding. Thank you and I will heed your advice.

simplywaiting,

If I understand your situation, you would like to explore a relationship with a married man whose wife has asked him to leave, right?

If so, my advice would be the same as the one given by most to Zen on his "dating while separated" thread: stay away from this man!

It would be a flawed relationship from the start, and no matter how empty the marriage is/was for him, it should be allowed to end and he should be allowed to heal without an overlapping relationship.

If he's been married for 30 years, and is being asked to leave against his will, you will probably need to wait a looooooooong time before he is healed, IMO. And I doubt that you can try to "be there" for him during that process; any interference will only delay his healing process.

Hope this helped, even though it's probably not what you wanted to hear...

AGG

Why didn't this "man" do anything to make the marriage less empty?

Why didn't repairing his "empty marriage" be the most important thing to him?

Wait until his divorce is FINAL, not just filed.
After all, he doesn't want one.

This is MARRIAGE BUILDERS. You won't get anyone here (well, maybe a few) telling you it's okay to date a married man.

For those of you that answered with understanding, thank you. For those of you that answered with contempt, judge not, least ye be judged.

END OF DISCUSSION

If I may add my two cents here. It appears tha you may be offended by others opinions and/or logic.
Everyone is here to help. Clearly, we operate from an accumulated base of knowledge. We are not judging you.
Rather, there is an honest attempt to help you clarify issues in your marriage.This is based on experience and what works or does not work.
Please remember, you came here to ask for help. And, no one here is going to tell you what YOU want to hear.
If this sounds harsh, I do not mean it to be that way. But we have all wrestled with issues in our marriages.And, we help each other.
Won't you allow us to help you too?

You want to know what offends me the most? That people cannot read. I didn't begin this discussion to 'hear what I wanted to hear.' I got my question answered by two people that took the time to actually try to absorb what was being asked, and if you would take the time to read my reply to one in particular, I said I would heed his advice. Now, this really is the end of the discussion.

simply waiting.

I think you need to go back to page one and read the principles of this sit. It is called Marriage building for a reason.

Maybe your man should be on this site and not you, so he can understand how to fill his empty marriage.

We are not judging you and you seem to be a little hostile to those who are not telling you what you want to hear.

Why did you leave your husband?

Simply,

Ignore the not so helpful responses. Don't even bother responding as it will do nothing but provoke. You have to realize that many on this board, although very kind and good people in normal circumstances, turn pretty vile and ugly when confronted with questions such as yours. I am sure they don't really mean it. They are clearly struggling with life and the pain adultry has caused them. I can relate as I was once a BW. You hate the world for a time. Read the thoughtful posts to you and ignore the rest.

I can very much relate to so much of what you wrote! I have been in an unfulfilling relationship for 20+ years and am going to finally divorce my H. It has been such a tough decision to come to. Like you, I am very concerned with him coming through this well. It is just so hard. But I do not appreciate him as he deserves to be appreciated. No doubt there is a wonderful woman out there who will. I feel I am hurting him more by keeping him "tied" to me when I have no feelings left for him. He is a caring, responsible man who will have no problems finding female companionship.

I too, will leave my H's financial future intact. I have agreed to taking very little. Just doesn't feel right since I am the one wanting out of the marriage. While his financial security makes me feel responsible, his future with another does not.

Regarding the man you are interested in: please keep yourself very uninvolved with his divorce. You are only putting yourself in a potentially harmful position. IF he divorces, there will be plenty of time for you two then. I don't believe you can help him through this rough time. He must do the work himself.

Thank you for posting.

<small>[ January 08, 2003, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: TheFeminineSide ]</small>

judge not, least ye be judged.
My sentiments exactly!

This is a DISCUSSION forum, not a "Tell you exactly what you want to hear" forum. This is a forum to help prevent people from unnecessary pain caused by decisions which are detrimental to their personal relationships.

<small>[ January 08, 2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</small>

agg...It would be a flawed relationship from the start, and no matter how empty the marriage is/was for him, it should be allowed to end and he should be allowed to heal without an overlapping relationship.

la...I understand point, these circumstances carry with it risk, however there is no such thing as a "flawed" relationship. This is life, live it or lose it (not just this, but everything in it). That means every situation is unique, and must be judged on it's own merits, not follow some cookbook. Relationships are particularly complex, and she already has a relationship with this man, and it is not "flawed" it just is. Many marriages start from "flawed" beginnings (meaning people don't know what they are getting into). One could say such shouldn't have married, and that would be true, but we do anyways. What is important is that she be clear about what she wants, and who this om is, then communicate that to him. Likewise he needs to do the same, and they both have to decide how "honest" (so to speak) they each are, so what they decide works. It may very well to keep distant (for the usual psychological reasons), or it may be to go through this together as a supportive thing in their relationship, (or anything in between). It all depends on who these 2 people are. However, I agree with most that staying distant is probably the best. Mostly cause the man has a warped sense of duty, and he has to figure out how to deal with that.

If she is in the picture, he has a soft place to land, and may never figure it out. This psychological shortcoming (martyr syndrome) kept him in a dysfunctional relationship, until it failed (as it must with a martyr committment). But he just brings that with him, and it must permeate his life (and choices) in general, she needs to really look hard at that. People who stay in marriages for the wrong reasons are just as messed up as people who leave for the wrong reasons.