Fortyone, hey like I said, you're gonna get some off the wall responses. It's really unfortunate. Like from Wiftty - all he can say is that you need to work on your issues (!) and you need to take responsibility for your actions. Man that is just so lame and thin. Sounds to me like you've taken way more your share of responsibility for one lifetime. I'm sorry you had to read that response. Only thing I agree with him on is that maybe this forum is not the place for you - if you're gonna get too many responses like those. And Newly, soo off-target! Your role of victim was ensured because you were victimized! Hello, do we need to draw a diagram here? Then she implies that either you yourself are emotionally abusive to your wives (boy that takes those poor souls off the hook pretty handily), or else if they are abusing you then that also must be your fault. Yah, it was your fault she went out cheating on you - you must've drove the poor thing to it. Shame on you! So again, just a whole lotta blame coming your way with no examples to back it up. I'm sorry you had to read that too. Then Anna talks about you needing to control yourself - well it sounds like you've been a saint if you ask me. Hey and nice long post from someone who said they were done responding! Guess you hit a nerve there. And I'll lay odds her response was in the can already, copied over from another of her posts - that "change yourself" stuff just seems to fit so well with every problem doesn't it? It's precious! I think I'll cut and paste it somewhere myself someday (kidding). Fortyone, this forum is just a little too goofy, isn't it?. You've got the real deal going on in your life and don't need lame baseless "advice" from people trying to make themselves feel more important, wiser (*fill in emotional need here*) than you. Maybe one or two level-headed responses from the likes of Lurking About are enough to make up for the other ones because he seems okay; your call. Later friend.

To all, thanks for your replies, it just shows me how different people see my problem, I can honestly say I DONT totally understand my problem, ANNA sees my wife as a stressed out mom who needs "ME TIME",well, lets see, she works full time at a job where she is well respected and ALMOST management, she makes good money for her education level, and she has little or no pressure from management, other than having to do her job.THEN she is an elder at her church which she attends every sunday from 9-12, she RUNS the sunday school AND teaches,she attends an average of 4 meetings a month which takes up about 2 hrs a night,during all this "ME" time she does not deal with the kids, I do or the church nursery does,TODAY is world prayer day, SHE will be watching the church from 5-7pm tonight, so she will not be cooking dinner, and I will have the kids,{let me add a side note here, if I made plans on FRIDAY NIGHT that included skipping dinner I would be dog house bound, guess because its for the church its ok??} Then our church hosts a homeless shelter 4 times a year, THAT WEEK she skips out on average 3 nights, I watch the kids about half that time too,then about 2 times a week she has friends over for game night,lets also not forget that she skips off to walmart a few times over the weekend, and lets not forget that when the kids get sick I usually end up taking them to the DR. AND bring them to work so SHE dont lose time. ALL SUMMER I ride bikes with my kids, which ADDS to her "ME" time, she dont ride bikes,I take them to the neighborhood park, its "too hot" for her, she dont like that either,I take my kids with me many times when I attend car shows, she dont like them, "its too hot" for her,more "ME" time for her. does it sound like she gets enough "ME" time?? SHE hates to cook, SO I DO THAT TOO, IF I dont cook, nights i work late, the kids A., DONT EAT, OR B., they get a cold sandwich or she orders a pizza or does mc Donalds, SHe dont "have time" to cook. I'm just explaining a typical week at my house, i hope I'm not WHINNING too much. So how did i do, did i pass the "give mom ME time test"?? In two weeks she will attend an out of town function with friends, the kids staying home with me,AND she will be staying over night, I TRIED to do the same thing with MY FRIENDS and I got a song and dance GUILT TRIP from her about it, dont I GET any "ME" time?? I guess all that time i spend WORKING in my shop at home ALONE is my "ME" time. I tried to go see a band at a bar{ I hate bars, i dont drink} trouble was the band belongs to an old HAPPILY MARRIED female friend,we're FRIENDS, NOTHING MORE, we chat on the net, that was a BIG PROBLEM, I INVITED HER, MY WIFE to attend, WHY WAS that a problem?? MY female friend was very hurt that my wife would behave that way. MY WIFE just booked an OVERNIGHT TRIP with FRIENDS for the summer, I'm NOT INVITED,but thats ok, right?? more "ME" time, and she "NEEDS" that , right?? SO, having said all that i'll go out on a limb and say i think i allow her enough "ME" time, would you agree, ANNA?? One of you mentioned changing ME, MY SELF, INSTEAD of trying to change her,I've been working on that, when she wants to ARGUE about our kids and all the problems I dont raise my voice anymore, I allow her to go off on her rant and when she's done blowing off I calmly offer my opinion.This makes her madder, she seems to THRIVE on "the fight", and i refuse to give her a fight, so she seems to leave frustrated from my lack of engagement.SO WHY did i come to this site, NOT for encouragement to leave my wife, and not to cry about my horrible life,I came to see if anyone else deals with this crap, I thought MAYBe someone could offer me some tips on dealing with woman that has mental issues,SHE thinks she's "FINE", and her rollercoaster of emotion and making the whole house walk on egg shells and and her childish disposition and spitefull attitude are perfectly normal. I seriously doubt it. TWO health professionals have perscribed medication AND indiviual counseling to her, and she refuses it all, she "dont have time". IF I was an acholic and I was terrorizing my family like this i think half of you would have told HER to pack her stuff, grab her kids, and RUN the other way, how is this different??

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Forty-One,

I haven't read all of the posts and replies, but based on the couple I have read I will share some of my own observations--

1. You admit you are a CONFLICT AVOIDER!! That really is NOT a good thing--

Have you considered that YOU have entered these relationships to HELP YOU grow in this area and learn how to handle and work through conflict as an adult..and stop running from it?? And maybe it is YOU who thrives on controversy and upheaval as You seem to be the one drawn into it?? Maybe that's something for you to look at within yourself--

Do you realize, it's OKAY NOT TO PLEASE EVERYONE??
It is IMPOSSIBLE to do..so stop trying..

2. It sounds like you are trying to blame all of your son's behavior on his ADHD, yes, that may be PART of the problem--

But have you considered he may be trying to alienate you and your wife--split the two of YOU
up IN HOPES that you and HIS MOTHER will get back together??? It sounds like HE KNOWS EXACTLY what he is doing....and if he knows EXACTLY what he is doing--THAT IS NOT THE ADHD!!!

Have you tried to sit down with your wife and work together on making a VIABLE set of rules for your son to adheare to in your home??? and worked together to enforce them?? And then sit down with your son and say these are the rules..and these are the consquences of breaking these rules..
we will stand stand together and support each other in this--He will try and break ever rule you've set--but YOU BOTH HAVE to work TOGETHER as a team and stand together as far as the consequences go..and don't back down..Once your son see's the two of you working "together" he will learn HE's not going to win out..and your home can become a more peaceful place for all--

But as the dad..and apparently from a couple of things you've said concerning church--You should be the spiritual leader of the home..and that includes and is not limited to--the discipling of your children..and teaching them YOU will back your wife 100% of the time when she disciplines him--if its' something you think is to harse, sit down w/ her later and away from the kids and discuss it calmly--and see if you can come to a consequence you BOTH agree too..

You made a comment about treating these women like queens..what does that mean to you?? In other words..how do you "think" you treat them like a queen?? You said in one of your replies you
'think your wife is a fat slob--but OH MY GOSH I"D NEVER SAY IT TO HER FACE!!" If that is what you mean by treating your wife like a queen is -buddy your way off!!! You may not say it..but I'm sure it comes out in your actions..and looks to her--because what you feel inside--comes out in so MANY OTHER Ways than just words..

You also say they "walk all over you" so tell me how do they walk all over you?? what is your interpretation of them walking all over you??

You've also called many of the women who have posted to you "Male bashers" I can tell you--the ones who have posted..aren't male bashers..they are trying to share with you things they have been through and Things they knew WOULD HAVE HELPED THEIR MARRIAGES--had their (Our) husbands applied them--

And if you enjoy those things such as auto racing, and fixing old cars, why don't you continue to do it?? as I suggested before sit down and talk to your wife, explain to her, these things are important to you--

make a plan that the two of you can do some things
you both enjoy doing together, and somethings she enjoys doing alone, and things you enjoy doing alone, and things for just you and your kids, somethings for her and your kids, and something for the entire family to do together--

Sit down and make a calender up and write down the different activities..and work them into a budget--and try to work as A TEAM!! And not on rival teams..

hanora, thanks for the reply,I dare say we've all picked up one too many socks our kids SHOULD have not left behind,Is it HIGHLY annoying?? YES, but you get a good nights sleep and the next day its just as annoying, BUT YOU DEAL with it, right? I search the whole house for the remote ANd the cordless phone, its annoying BUT, I dont go off my rocker over it, cant say that for my wife, I have THOUSANDs of dollars worth of tools in my shop, my son thinks nothing of dropping them on the ground and leaving, I HATE THAT, but again, I deal,last night my wife had an argument with my ADHD son,he was backtalking, I dont allow that, but that never stops him, I DID make him stop and LISTEN to his step mom,AND I made him DO what she wanted,AFTER this exchange she got what she wanted, but she was'nt happy, she goes into another room, by her self and starts TALKING to her self complete with 4 letter words, like she's having a conversation with someone,I find THIS behavior of hers disterbing,I've never seen anyone else do this,she does this A LOT. Sometimes she's very strange. MY MOM raised 3 teenage boys, and TWO of them were always pushing the limit, smoking, drinking, drugs, you name it, {not me though}, My mom got pretty frazzled, but I never saw her go off the deep end like this. I know a lot of parents with step kids and teens, and they dont have problems this bad. I make a big deal about the system because thats how I FEEL. If we all keep QUIET about it NOTHING gets changed. I deal with a LOT every day, and I DEAL WELL, otherwise i'd be in jail or a mental ward someplace, trust me.I got divorced once, and i was TOTALLY willing to BE FAIR, and CIVIL, GETTING CASH to my then soon to be X was my biggest concern, i knew we could not live together, BUT we had little kids who still needed a dad, and a home, and i never stopped making sure they were taken care of. I guess I worry i'm not being fair sometimes, I KNOW the worlds not fair,but I TRY to NOT be like the rest of the world. I'm 50/50 on bailing out on my wife and all her issues in life, MY OWN MOTHER thinks i'm NUTS for even sticking around, and my mom NEVER says bad stuff about people, I value her opinion, but I have to make my own decision. I KNOW I can find happiness without all this greif. I dont want to abandon this woman and crush her.I CARE about her, but I'm real confused.

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

41,

I agree, your life is a mess. My life was a mess also. I reached my low about three and half years ago. I am in my second marriages and my husband is a conflict avoider. I was the opposite and made a big deal out of everything. There was a time when my husband thought I was crazy and told me many times. He said you don't think like everyone else and you will never be any better. To this day I hate when someone says this about another person. Anyone can change. Yes, they have to want to change. God can make us willing to change. He did me.

I am in no way taking up for your wife, but I would like to share some things with you that I hope helps you to understand. First of all you say you have never knowed anyone dealing with things like your wife does. I am sure this is true. My husband had never known anyone that dealt with things like I would. The problem is that you were not both brought up by the same parents. My family handled things very different than my husbands family did. The big problems comes when each of you think your family's ways were right. You must learn that it doens't matter which way is right. Both ways have good and bad things. The important part is that you both realize you have been taught different things, good or bad. You need to get past the blame game. Both of you must.I am sure both of you need to change somethings.

You say you have never seen anyone else act like your wife when she was upset. You said your friends with teenagers didn't act like that way. I have to say you have no ideal how others deal with there emotions when you are not around. I use to think the same thing, no one else's family acts like this. I had to learn that I have no idea how others act when no one else but family is around. We would all be surprised is we saw hidden movies made of our friends when no one else was around. So, there is no way you or I know what or how others are dealing with their familes.You may know people that act like your wife, you just never see it.

You are confused just as my husband and I was confused. This is a confusing world. I did do some of the things you say your wife does. I act crazy at times I must admit. The problem was it was the only way I knew how to act. It was what I was taught. No, I am not blameing my parents, they did the best they knew how. They did what they were taught. Most of us have never been taught how to treat each other, especially the ones we love the most.

I had to get past the idea that my husband's family's ways were somehow better than my family's ways. I had to learn, that all that doesn't matter. I had to learn that it is not about the right way or wrong way of doing something or handling something. What does matter is how we treat others. I had to learn how to treat my husband, children, co-workers, and friends.

If your wife is anything like I use to be, then she is miserable herself. She doesn't want to be the way she is, but she doesn't know how to change. She is probably not ready to admit she needs to change. That was very hard for me. Deep down inside, I didn't want to be like I was, but I wouldn't admitted it even to myself. Boy, did I fall down big time. I thought I was going to go crazy.Three years ago when things had gotten really bad , my husband left and filed for divorce. I turn to God for the first time in my life to change me. I was broken and didn't want to live the life I had been living. Praise God, I am still not divorced and hope to stay married. My husband and I do a lot together now and I believe he will be back soon. He stays here a lot already. He has told me and others about how much I have changed. This coming from someone who said I would never change.

I know you life is a mess, mine was. I am sure your wife is not happy either. Neither of you are happy but neither of you know what to do about it either. Just like my life, it is a mess that only God can fix. I believe that with all my heart. I know you said your wife goes to church. There is a difference in going to church and allowing God to work in you and your life.We have to stop caring about being right and trust God with all of our life...all of it.

You didn't say if you went to church or not. So, I am not sure where you stand. I was not going to church when my husband left. It took him leaving for me to turn to God to fix my messed up life.

You also have to take some of the blame. I know I talked about what I had did wrong to my husband. He did things wrong too, but that is between him and God. I can only answer for what I did wrong in our marriage. I know you mentioned that your brothers got into trouble, but you didn't. I am sure you may have not gotten into trouble, but I am also sure you are not without blame.You may believe you have done everything possible for your wife and marriage, but have you? I have learned that most of us fall very short of treating our spouses as God meant for us to do. I always believed if I could just get my husband to do as he was suppose to then everything would be alright. What I learned was that it had to start with me. When I learned how God wanted me to treat my husband and started doing what God want me to do, my husband started treating me like I needed to be treated.There is still work to do in me and my husband, but I can say that life is much better and less confusing.

The blame game doesn't work, the who's right who's wrong or the who's more right or more wrong doesn't work. I found that the only plan that works is God's plan. God has a beautiful plan for marriage, we have all just really messed it up.

I didn't even understand what God's plan was for marriage, so I cried out for Him to show me and He sent me here, www.restorem.org

There is always hope and God is in the business of changeing people...even crazy people like me. I hope this helps you. Remember, life is hard unless we are allowing God to lead us.

From someone who was also disappointed with their life, it can be better. Let go and let God take over. You're load is heavier than it has to be.

gentle

<small>[ March 07, 2003, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

Gentle, thanks for the reply, yours is one of the few that seems to hear what i was saying, My wife has had god in her life since she was 12, at her request I attend church with her, I dont mind going, and it gives the kids a chance to find God, The thing i dont like about church is they tend to DRAW on the more active members too heavy,my wife spents too much time and effort on church affairs and our living environment at home suffers. The thing i dont like about her faith is she sits in church every sunday with me, I hear the preacher and all the same readings she does,I KNOW how God expects me to TREAT my wife and my family, I'LL be the FIRST to admit I'm FAR from perfect, BUT, I TRY to keep the every day stresses of home and family in perspective and DONT harbor bitter feeling toward any of them even though i could. She can QUOTE scripture on almost any subject, but she is FAR from PRACTICING forgiveness and turning the other cheek, It half makes me think I'm wasting my time sitting there every sunday,WITHOUT FAIL, some other ELDER in the church will TRY to rope us into spending MORE TIME catering to some issue in the church and OUR LIVES are coming apart at the seams. SHE cant wait to DROP everything and be the hero for the church. IN MY OPINION my CHURCH, and MY committment to GOD and family starts AT HOME, and IF I have anything left to give i give it to church, I WISH she would think about that. SHe is SO CHILDISH, when I mention this she goes off and becomes resentfull, A real CHRISTIAN responce, huh? I guess what I'm really thinking is it makes me SICK when people like my wife CLAIM to be such GREAT CHRISTIANS and they cant interact in a God fearing maner to solve their family problems. I HAD and STILL HAVE FAULTS, no doubt, but I have TOTALLY CHANGED my reaction to HER ISSUES, I'm WORKING ON ME, I did not get along with HER son, BUT, I DIDNT spend my life attacking him, SHE attacks MY SON all the time,HE IS very annoying, he annoys ME, BUT, GOD says I MUST do my BEST for him , and I"M TRYING to BALANCE her needs AND HIS, SHE, as an ADULT needs to GROW UP and realise he is NOT WELL and is NOT GOING TO CHANGE OVERNIGHT, her LACK of PATIENCE is NOT going to fix anything. I DONT get along with HER mentally challenged son, BUT I DONT SCREAM 4 letter words at him when I'n annoyed with him, I speak my piece and its OVER. I LEARNED that harboring ILL FEELING toward this SICK kid were destroying my life, I STOPPED. SHE is NOT getting it.

fortyone:

--My wife has had god in her life since she was 12.--

It sounds from many of the things you've said that she feels she has to 'work' her way to Heaven, and also like you have certain "thoughts" about HOW a Christian "SHOULD" Act--

It also sounds like the church uses "GUILT" to get it's members to do more--but wanting to do God's work comes from the love you feel inside
for God for what He's done for you, and you don't have to be guilted into doing it--

It also sounds like you and your wife don't have an understanding of what boundaries are--and how to say NO, to things when already stressed--

Maybe the two of you can work together on this--
there is a really wonderful book and workbook called Boundaries, that you could use as a HOME Study..their is one Boundaries in Marriage, another Boundaries for Kids, and another one that is called Boundaries..

"We are saved by grace, not of works, lest any man should boast"

If your wife feels led to serve God, and do things at church, thats wonderful, but they shouldn't take over and consume her life--she would need to learn how add some balance to her life--

I can tell you from experience, I was horrid with boundaries, and "I" allowed others to walk all over me, to the point of abuse..because I didn't have any boundaries, I had no idea of what they were--on a 'personal' level--yes, I understood we have a property boundaries, and so forth, but I never had an understanding that "I" could say NO
to people and still be a Christian--it's actually relieved a lot of stress from my life--

With that, I have been better able to teach my kids about their own personal boundaries, and that it's really okay to SAY NO, to certain things
but sometimes, even if we really don't want to do things..we HAVE to .like going to school or work--we may not want to do that..but we HAVE to..

But as far as doing things all their friends want them to do, and they don't want to--it's okay to say NO!! And if they want to do something else--
thats okay too---and but they don't need to be angry at their friends, or everyone around them
just because they don't get their way--

So maybe you can encourage your wife and your kids to sit down together as a family and work on this together--or maybe you could read it alone and lead by example--

41,

I agree with a lot of what Thorned rose said. You do need to set down with your family and talk about things. Let it start with you. Try them as you want to be treated no matter how they act.

Also, I am so sorry you feel this way about church. I can understand why.I grew up in a church that was all about works. It cause me to turn away from God for most of my adult life.I now enjoy church. I am very imvolved at church, but my family must come first. I do things for the Lord. If I start doing them for me or others in the church, I get over loaded. God must led us as to what service we are to do in the church. What the church memebers think of us or what they think we should do shoudn't come into play. Many people go to church and don't led a Christian life. It is not about what we do, it is about Christ and what He wants us to do. I praise God for this because this is what set me free. I am to live my life for Christ.

I understand your fustration with your wife and her coming off with scriptures. We are to live teh scriptures out. Of course we all fall at times but , if we have our eyes on Jesus, we get back up and confess our sins.

God doesn't want your life all messed up like this. Only God can fix this. Believe me I have lived it. You cannot get your wife to come around, but God can and that is who you must go to. I used to get angry when people said this too me, but pray. I promise prayer changes things. You live a Christ centered life and give all this to God and things will change. You must let it start with you. You are the head of household and it is your job and ministry to teach your family. All this must be done with God in everything. You must depend on Him for everything.

I am sure your wife wants the same things you do. As I said before, neither of you know what to do to get out of this mess. I believe God is calling you to stand with Him for the healing of your marriage and family.Allow God to work thru you. It takes time. I really would recommend you going to the web site I mentioned and ordering the book there. You would be great if your wife would be open to reading the one for woman. She would have to be ready to receive the message.

We must mature in Chirst. This takes time. You want a better life, give it to God...really give it to him and it will get better. I am not saying that there will not be any problems. I am saying that God will be there with you and the outcome will be different. I speak from experience. Don't just go to church. The church is not a building, it is made up of people. People that believe in and follow Jesus. We are the church. It is all about a relationship with Him. Get to know Him and see what He will do.

Four years ago I would have not believed any of what I just wrote. I pray you believe and trust Him. Words cannot express what I am talking about. You have to experience Him for yourself. Again, it is not about church, it is about being the church thru Jesus.

I hope this help you. Please show your family Christ, it makes all the different. Many times I don't act Christ like. I suffer for it too. Then I work on being more Christ like because that is when I find peace. Things change.

gentle

Hey 41!

I read the posts and responses back & forth and I can only conclude one thing: whether or not it meets with everyone's approval on this board or not; what I have read in responses to your posts amounts to nothing more than sheer bigotry.

I challenge anyone here to say that the responses would have been far different if 41 was female.

41: you are in an abusive relationship. Plain and simple. To a certain extent you have allowed it, since your perception of "nice-guy", & good husband have allowed you to become a doormat by your "queen" treatment of your women, and lack of assertion from point one in your relationships. Women suffer the same fate when allowing men to assume the "lord & master" role in the home at expense to themselves. This is of course met with by more sympathy (empathy?), since it is perceived to be more credible, and more common. This is of course NOT the case. (please excuse the use of CAPS).

A huge reason I think for the bad reaction to you, is the use of BOLD CAPS. In text, it comes across as agressive, and people do not understand that it is merely a measure of your frustration. You feel powerless, and also a little "GAT-VOL" ( a phrase basically meaning pissed-off in South Africa). I, for one, will applaude you for venting in this manner, other than losing it in the manner associated with frustrated postal workers as portrayed in the movies.

In your defense, I would say that not all on the "Divorced/Divorcing" board are posters with any hope of recovery of their marriages, but need a place for venting, and some support. Of course we do not know the story from the other side, but this is the case with EVERY member here, surely????!!

Now, back to the point:
Of course you should seek counselling to help you with the conflict-avoidance, or people-pleasing, or whatever issue it is you have, and see how much change that makes to you, personally, and how it affects your circumstance, by virtue of the reaction to changed behaviour.

When a people-pleaser learns to say "NO", however, he/she sometimes discovers that the "takers" will not stand for it, and that was ALL that the R was built on. You should have the courage to find out. Time for "easy-going" is gone!

To be cliched: "no more MR Nice Guy".
I wish you luck.
...sticking my neck out....

muzohead

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Hanora:
Took a long time to respond, I've been splitting time between posts. I just wanted to defend 41, since you will see if you read from the top, that he has taken a lot of "schtick", with little understanding for his frustration, from most, not all, respondents.

I read your post, well-balanced I thought, and a few others'. The rest,.....well.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

muzohead

Muzo, his frustration is APPARENT with EVERY possible PUNCTUATION. We get it! But the schtick you refer to is self-delusion. A few of these people have been married to less than balanced people, and they've taken the time to share that there is work he can do on himself.

Guy45, Fortyone, and anyone else who has bought into the "story" here, this man did not come to "Marriage Builders" with the intent to work on his part in the marital problems. No. The problems are all hers. She's crazy. She's fat. etc. etc. etc. No doubt, the pain is real. She obviously doesn't meet his needs for attractive spouse. I get it!

But A MAN who's EVERY other WORD is SHOUTED, even IN a DIGITAL world TELLS something ABOUT his OWN character OFF the BOARD! I CALL it BARELY contained RAGE! And SHE gets IT too! No WONDER she's CONTROLLING, running, ESCAPING, and CRAZY! Barbara DeANGELES calls It TANKING! And THIS man IS an EXPERT at TANKING!

People who start a thread here, usually are looking for one of the following:

Either

a. Hold me accountable for my own behavior because I want to know that I have done everything possible to save my marriage and make my spouse happy, no matter what the outcome... or

b. Co-miserate with me because my life is such h3ll and it's all the spouse's or stbx spouse's fault... or

c. I've tried the best "a" I can, and it worked! I want to share my success story so that others can have hope.... or

d. I've tried the best that I can, and it didn't work out, and now I have all this grief and pain because I truly loved my spouse and I'm heartbroken that it's not going to work out. How can I cope and please help!.... or

e. Co-miserate with me, but don't you dare talk to me about "a"; don't bring it up, don't refer to "a", because IT'S NOT MY FAULT. IT'S ALL HIS/HERS AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT HOW I NEED TO CHANGE, BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE I'M AN ANGRY, DEMANDING JERK WHO DOESN'T WANT TO LEARN A FIG ABOUT MARRIAGE BUILDER PRINCIPLES, I WANT VALIDATION TO STAY IN MY BELIEFS AND DESTROY EVERYTHING, but especially it has to be confirmed by EVERYONE who responds to me that it's all his/her fault, and that I'm off the hook...

So which extreme do you think fortyone has been expressing in his thread and all his retaliatory responses? He doesn't want to be happy. He wants to be right. And there are too many people here who have also been married to crazies, who realized there was plenty of work to do on themselves before they wrote off their marriage so easily, and they're the ones ticking him off the most.

Just a final thought. Before you buy into the schtick about living with a crazy spouse, go see "A Beautiful Mind", and then try to counsel Alicia Nash that fortyone has it worse than her. She ended up divorced from John Nash for a time - but HE initiated it, not her. She stayed true to him, through all the stuff, including the stuff they didn't portray in the movie. And she remarried him years before the Nobel Prize was awarded to him. She found a way to make deposits in his love bank in spite of the mental illness. So don't go tell me how rough fortyone has it. There are those here who have it tougher than him due to mental illness who are not laying plans and strategies to excuse his dissolution of his marriage.

To Kayla, thanks??? for your reply, i think you all missed the point of my posts, I dont need any of you to VALIDATE ANYTHING for me, I was laying my problems on the line for you all to see and offer me some tips if you had any,I know I'm not perfect, { I know I said that several times}, and I'm not saying I'am. I've been married over 10 yrs to this woman and i've spent at least 7 years "working" on saving the marriage, I've had counseling several times, in all ways possible, family, alone, etc., and I've MODIFIED my way of viewing this situation to ANd dealing with her with little change in her attitude or disposition,she's all over the map with her moods and attitude.I dont think i'm RIGHT all the time,but I do think I need a change of pace in this relationship, and i've TOLD HER I cant keep going like this, but she's "too busy" to do anything about her moods and ATTITUDE,she ignores advise from health professionals, and makes excuses instead of addressing her issues. Its funny, I mentioned her weight, and i said it to prove a point about how i've noticed WOMEN seem to reserve the right to say hurtfull things at will and expect MEN to "forget about it" when they decide its time to make up. I said" I think she's a fat cow, but I never SAY IT TO HER, " and I get BASHED for saying how I NEVER SAY bad things I would regret saying. All you all saw was i said the word FAT, FAT FAT FAT, did I hit a nerve here?? REMEMBER, I NEVER SAY hurtfull stuff, even if i think it, did you hear what i;m saying this time? Just the facts here, she's FAT, you cant hide that under a 3XXX shirt, sorry, but I NEVER MENTION her weight, and I ENCOURAGE her to do so when SHE mentions dieting, and I'm TACTFULL if I say anything at all about it. I dont seem to get TACTFULL replys from her. Most of you seem like "good christians", too bad many of you seem like the same brand of "christian" she is, very few of you said anything GOOD about the EFFORTS I've put forth to learn to deal with her mental illness, THANKS, I love writing stuff here, I enjoy getting my stones broken by women with selective word syndrome, that seems to be a woman trait, picking out KEY WORDS from context and structuring fights to fit their attitude. while i have your eye I've been working on my personal ad, SOON to be divorced male, 41 seeks easy going woman for fun and long term happiness,I'm an average guy with average looks, 5'8 and slight male gut, otherwise slim,clean, only been with the 2 women I divorced, 3 kids and 2 ex wives and all the fun that comes with them!! I'm in the car business, i build custom cars, I attend car shows and like Nascar and dining out. I'm easy going and like various things, what new tricks can you teach me? My match would be a hard working woman,35-45 , average body style, who wants a secure relationship with a stable guy who wishes to shower a stable, self confident woman with love and companionship. I value personal space and you should too, my ideal mate will TRUST me and I would do the same. My ideal woman would also be non smoking and non drinking as I am, and would enjoy ROCK, COUNTRY, and classic rock and oldies,, no rappers please. If you want to take a ride on my Harley, I'll buy one!!! If you think we fit, contact me!! How do you like my ad?? :]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by fortyone:
I was laying my problems on the line for you all to see and offer me some tips if you had any </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

what kind of tips were you looking for that you haven't gotten? You've totally ignored the ones you've been given so far... Oh - but those were geared to you saving your marriage. Looks like we missed what you were looking for here on MARRIAGE BUILDERS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i've spent at least 7 years "working" on saving the marriage, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

How specifically have you worked on helping her feel loved, cherished, precious, admired, etc....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've had counseling several times, in all ways possible, family, alone, etc., and I've MODIFIED my way of viewing this situation to ANd dealing with her </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

How specifically have you modified your behavior?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">very few of you said anything GOOD about the EFFORTS I've put forth to learn to deal with her mental illness,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

You haven't described any yet. You've bashed her mind, her emotions, her physical condition - I don't think you've bashed her spirituality yet, but I could have missed that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love writing stuff here, I enjoy getting my stones broken by women with selective word syndrome, that seems to be a woman trait, picking out KEY WORDS from context and structuring fights to fit their attitude.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

SELECTIVE word SYNDROME eh? THAT'S rich, NOW, isn't IT?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[b]while i have your eye I've been working on my personal ad, SOON to be divorced male, 41 seeks easy going woman for fun and long term happiness,I'm an average guy with average looks, 5'8 and slight male gut, otherwise slim,clean, only been with the 2 women I divorced, 3 kids and 2 ex wives and all the fun that comes with them!! I'm in the car business, i build custom cars, I attend car shows and like Nascar and dining out. I'm easy going and like various things, what new tricks can you teach me? My match would be a hard working woman,35-45 , average body style, who wants a secure relationship with a stable guy who wishes to shower a stable, self confident woman with love and companionship. I value personal space and you should too, my ideal mate will TRUST me and I would do the same. My ideal woman would also be non smoking and non drinking as I am, and would enjoy ROCK, COUNTRY, and classic rock and oldies,, no rappers please. If you want to take a ride on my Harley, I'll buy one!!! If you think we fit, contact me!! How do you like my ad?? :][/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've got to be kidding. How about some truth in advertising. Every woman here has become SELECTIVE word SYNDROME junkies, REACTING to YOUR digital PRESENCE by IGNORING all THE good, SELF-SERVING stuff YOU write ABOUT your MARRIAGE saving EFFORTS...

No woman could survive your physical presence and remain sane. The evidence is here, with every woman who has tried to help you see the truth about relationships. You still don't have a clue.

Thanks, karla, hows your life going??? i assume yours is grand and you just stopped in to offer advise?? :]

OOPS, ITS KAYLA, sorry HUN, dont want you biting me...

Please excuse this interruption, but .... is 41 placing an add before he is even divorced?

umm, if you are 41 ... you may have missed this very important fact, this is a MARRIAGE BUILDER'S SITE. And if you are sharing a personal add here to seek companionship outside your marriage, I find it not only inappropriate, but disdainful and profoundly offensive.

Jo

<small>[ March 12, 2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

relax, That was a joke, if anyone really contacted me from here i think i'd run the other way....... its funny, people with broken lives telling others with broken lives how to fix them...... Hmmmm.... whats wrong with this picture... I think i'll just keep all my hurt and anger inside from now on, i used to think the worst CRITIC of my life was me untill I posted here...you women are BRUTAL, no wonder your all posting here.. have a nice life, all, PLEASE dont any of you answer personal ads where the guy's a non smoker, non drinker looking for a stable woman, I dont think many of you will cut it...I'll be preying for you all too.