Quick question. Or possibly not so quick.
I spoke with Steve this morning. I’m going to sign the DV papers this week.
One thing Steve and I didn’t go over was how do I tell my h.? Any ideas on this?
He’s traveling for work Friday and Saturday. Could I tell him over the phone?
I don’t want to debate this with him. But, I want him to understand that I’m filing because there has been no change in our relationship and there’s no indication that change is eminent.
Any other ideas?

I'd take the time he is gone to make sure I had all the papers I would need from the house photocopied, and in order. Then tell him when he gets back, or just before if you'd rather do it on the telephone.
Good Luck.

best that you tell him in a public place or best that you tell him in a counselor's office so that a professional can observe the reaction and document if for anger management issues, etc.

best that you do not do it over the phone.

wiftty

Hi Green,

I am so sorry it has come to this. My heart breaks for you. I might get labled the blue meannie but my take is this:

1) line up movers to come and help you load up all his books and move them to his office,
2) Change the locks,
3) Speak with your lawyers about drawing up a draft that he needs to stay away from the house, and full temparary custody of children till he finds a stable place to live,
4) Maybe place a message on the machine that STBX H no longer lives here his business number is "..." and leave it at that,
5) I would meet with him when he gets back in a public place and inform him, (Personnaly I would not tell him over the phone.)
6) What about the children? Are you going to tell them what is going on? And set up visitations?

I just do not see how you can work through a divorce/seperation/plan b when he will not leave the house. I know you will not leave without the children and why uproot them any more. Plus you are the sole wage earner should you pay for the house and an appartment? If your H is going to change it might be time that he really feels the ramifications of his actions or well in your case lack of actions.

I know I will be slammed for being hard-nosed but honestly he should be the one to go and if he is going to be out of town use it to your advantage. He had more than enough time to work on the relationship. How much rope should one person get to hang themselves?

I am not advocating locking him out of his business. He has an office/store that he should have been using for years. I am not advocating him no access to his children. But for both you, your children, and his sanity one of you has to leave and since he can not afford to pay for the house it should be him. Pure economics in my eyes.

Thanks. I wish I knew what words to say. I don't want to hurt him. Okay, maybe I do, but not really like this. From the tone of voice on the message my h. left, I think Steve Harley somewhat prepared him. for what was coming. Good thing because since I’ve been on best behavior and things have been peaceful, my h. thinks everything is fine. (Steve concurred.)

I’ll keep in mind the public place. In the counselor’s office won’t work because Steve is in Minnesota.

I think I won’t bring it up tonight unless my h. does first. I think I should stick with my line that nothing in our situation has changed, and I see no indication that it will change.

Life will be uncomfortable for a while, until he moves out. And unfortunately, my husband’s way of handling disappoint, hurt, embarrassment or just about anything else that makes him uncomfortable is to lash out.

We’ll see what happens. Please cross your figures for me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’ll keep in mind the public place. In the counselor’s office won’t work because Steve is in Minnesota. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said a counselor's office, understanding that Steve is long distance and isn't available.

maybe get his office to recommend someone around you, or start interviewing counselor's locally. the anticipated back lash is why i suggested the professional supervision and documentation. . .

you gotta think carefully about what you are about to do, and plan very carefully, and not make any baba style rash actions.

wiftty

Anne,

Did you and Steve discuss a Plan B letter? I think that might be an effective way to hammer the point home. Of course, you aren't dealing with an affair, but are you willing to delay divorce while your (separated) husband works on his issues? And if you're willing, what was the plan that Steve and you had concerning how/if your husband should know this?

Are you going to move his stuff out while he's gone this weekend? Do you want him to know about it?

All these little questions would need to be answered before I'd give you a concrete piece of advice.

K,

Steve and I didn’t talk about a no-contact letter. We did talk about filing and then dragging it out for 2 years. That is the waiting period that one spouse can request, although it’s probably not the plaintive most of the time.

It would take me way longer than 2 days to get his stuff out of our house. So, the answer to that is no. I don’t see changing the locks either. I don’t really want to antagonize him.

And yes, if he wanted to work at change while separated, I’d go along with it. It’s just very unlikely my husband would move out unless forced. And even after I file, I still can’t make him leave.

If he refuses to move out, I’ll move into Margaret’s room since she already sleeps in Emma’s. I’ll just pretend my h. doesn’t live there. I won’t depend on him for anything, and maybe we can work out a custody deal.

And I’ll have to tell the children. The elder has been concerned, though the peace that’s presided over the last few months has eased her anxiety. This will be the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

A letter still might be a good idea. I’ll write one and post it.

My letter which I may read or just rehash and then hand to my h.

Dear husband,

There has been no substantial change in our relationship, and therefore, my unhappiness and distress has continued. There seems no indication that change is eminent, and my hope has deteriorated.

Given this, I’ve filed for divorce.

I hope we can come to an arrangement that will be best for the children in this difficult time.

Please understand that this action was not my first choice. I would much prefer to have worked with you to create a life that makes us both happy. Unable to do that, I must create an environment that is at least safe, if not filled with the joy a romantic, loving marriage should provide.

Your wife

I'm a little confused here and don't want this to be harder on GG than it already is but what legal authority does she have to lock her H out of the house? Isn't it his as much as hers? She just can't up and move his things out. And she certainly can't keep him away from the children.

I realize I haven't been following GG's story closely but I really think she needs to examine her options a little more closely. She really needs to talk with her attorney about these issues.

As far as telling a spouse, I was not going to say anything until the papers were delivered to my STBX (geesh, that's the first time I've used that term). Because I thought I had a good relationship with my in-laws, I told them before I told my wife so they could be prepared to support her and to give them my reasons for filing. Well, I wasn't prepared for their threats to go tell their daughter themselves if I didn't. I did tell my W about the filing the day before she got the papers. She was very sad about it and seemed to want to be comforted. Then when she found out what was actually in the papers and temporary court orders, she was very, very angry.

That was 10 months ago. We are still living in the same house. Neither of us can make the other leave. I am waiting for the court to make the decision for my STBX to move out of the house. It will be easier for the kids to deal with the news I think if the court tells her to move out rather than me trying to force the issue by locking her out.

Remember, you still need to consider what is in the best interests of your precious children. Don't ever forget them.

I'm curious why Steve Harley didn't recommend Plan B. Was it because of the kids? He never strongly recommended a Plan B to me either. I have a gut feeling that his dad, Willard, would have recommended plan B after only about 4 months of coaching and Plan A. Steve also agreed with my plan to file and then to see if my W would agree to participate in further coaching or counseling with me working towards a potential reconciliation.

Good luck GG. Please find a 'safe' place to tell your H if that is your plan. Have someone watch your kids. Be prepared for a response if your H isn't so agreeable to moving out.

{{{{greengables}}}}

HoFS

Anne,

Direct, and to the point. Having said that, I'm not sure that I like it.

Instead of this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There has been no substantial change in our relationship, and therefore, my unhappiness and distress has continued. There seems no indication that change is eminent, and my hope has deteriorated. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How about more like this:

I have worked hard on our marriage through counseling with Steve, in hopes that this relationship would be fulfilling for both of us. Although you have done (x, y ---anything good to mention?) to help, I was really hoping that you would join me in counseling and building this marriage to a happy relationship for the two of us. This hasn't happened, and my hope for us is really dwindling. In order to save what love I still have for you, I'm asking you to move out (immediately), and have no contact with me directly. We will work our arrangements for you to visit with the girls, mediated through xxx.

In addition, to protect my legal rights, I will need to file for divorce.

And I like most of this

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please understand that this action was not my first choice. I would much prefer to have worked with you to create a life that makes us both happy. Unable to do that, I must create an environment that is at least safe, if not filled with the joy a romantic, loving marriage should provide.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But would add that if he is willing to start counseling and establish some new behaviors that would move towards your vision of a loving marriage, then you would consider doing this with him---while separated.

Hotfence-

gg's legal authority is called a restraining order (or in somes states PPO). If abuse is a problem, a judge can either order him out of the home, or force him to provide support if SHE moves out. Abuse can be either physical OR verbal. The court does NOT differenciate.

The welfare of the children come first, safety of the spouse is a close second.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by doogie:
<strong>Hotfence-

gg's legal authority is called a restraining order (or in somes states PPO). ....

The welfare of the children come first, safety of the spouse is a close second.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">doogie:

I did not see mention of a restraining order in gg's post. Yes, of course the safety of the family is the first concern. But gg indicated that her H is still living in the same house with her and her children. If there is a history of abuse, whatever the form, then yes, by all means she should get her husband removed from the house.

GG could also use the Dv papers as a means for moving into additional reconciliation. My STBX and I agreed to this shortly after the papers were filed and delivered. The judge ordered a 60-day period to examine the possibilities of reconciliation. The court would always prefer to keep the family intact. I asked for an additional 60-day period after the postponement and it was granted. I learned later that it was not necessary to continue reconciliation any longer and the divorce process was started up again.

HoFS

Wiftty -- Please. I’m not a rash person. Please note that I’m not hiring a moving company, changing locks, or antagonizing my husband. If I could find any other way, I would do it. I’ll move carefully.

FenceSitter and Doggie – There is no abuse in this situation. And I can’t legally force him out. I think the reason why Steve didn’t push for Plan B without filing is that the last time we went down that path (in Sept.) my husband stalled and stalled moving out, and then finally agreed to counseling.

K- I like your changes, although they’re a lot softer than my expressions. It will be interesting to see if my h. once again tells me I haven’t tried at all. The thing about counseling though… My h. has been talking with Steve. My h. believes he is in counseling. But, he won’t do any of the assignments. I don’t think he’ll even understand where I’m coming from. In addition, my h. has told me several times that he’s going to continue working out of the house no matter what, and I should just be happy about it. He’s promised me for 3 years that he’d get the books out of the basement. The finances aren’t up for negotiation. “There’s nothing I can do about it,” he tells me. Oops. I slipped into a vent there.
Here are the behavioral changes he must exhibit before he can come home
1. Reliable, consistent FS.
2. Take care of the situation I can’t discuss, or at least start on it and prove it with a paper trail.
3. Agree never to bring any inventory into our house again. (naturally, I’ll make special exceptions.)
4. Follow POJA to avoid getting into the situation we find ourselves in currently.
5. Cease Angry Outbursts and Disrespectful Judgments.

Unfortunately, I’m asking for nothing less than for him to revamp his way of life. I don’t know if he can.

Fence sitter -- Thanks for what not to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . And I've read the papers. It's pretty harsh.

Anne,

I know that my tone was "softer", and I was wondering what tone you wanted to use---and if you even wanted to give him a chance to change (I assume you do, although it will be limited time-wise, and you don't have much in the way of expectations).

That list you put down might be a lovely addition to the letter, if you're going for a harder tone. And you definitely should identify these in writing should he want to make the marriage work---this is his 'to do' list.

On getting him out of the house---can you use the "unmentionable situation" as leverage to get him out? It's probably a lovebuster to say---"Gee honey, I'd prefer that you move out on your own. I'd be happy to help you find a place. No? Well, I guess 10-20 years at Attica might be a better situation; at least it's free rent."

GG,

I realize that you are not a rash person, i am offering some suggestions to answer your question, for you to think about. Also, at this point, knowing the legal rights of what levers you can pull in legalese, etc. will shape your options. In other words, what options you do have to move him out if he gets beligerant, but otherwise, an in house separation is very desirable, but sometimes hard to pull off.

K and GG,

on K's letter, i would change the join me in counseling to work with me in counseling which is a subtle difference, but one that GG sees as the problem, sitting in the same room and agreeing, but not doing any of the work.

wiftty

Hello,

I offer this as possible insight as to why no plan B -

Steve suggsted that to me to separate and work out all the details then when dv finalized, go to plan b. If I did it before it might look like I was trying to manipulate him.

....Just a thought

D.

I'm fine-tuning my letter, thanks all. Here it is.
Dear Husband.

I have worked hard on our marriage through counseling with Steve, in hopes that this relationship would be fulfilling for both of us. Although you have gotten your hernia fixed, honored my birthday and talked with Steve to help, I was really hoping that you would join me in doing the assignments that would allow us to build this marriage to a happy relationship for the two of us. This hasn't happened, and my hope for us is really dwindling. In order to save what love I still have for you, I'm asking you to move out (immediately), and have no contact with me directly. We will work our arrangements for you to visit with the girls, mediated through Marty.

In addition, to protect my legal rights, I will need to file for divorce.

Please understand that this action was not my first choice. I would much prefer to have worked with you to create a life that makes us both happy. Unable to do that, I must create an environment that is at least safe, if not filled with the joy a romantic, loving marriage should provide.

If you would like to continue working with Steve, doing the assignments that will give us the information we need so that we both can make necessary changes in our behavior, I’m willing consider this – while separated.

I care about you. I enjoy your company. I love going out on dates with you, vacationing with you, and day trips as a family. I simply will not live this way.

Your wife

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I love going out on dates with you, vacationing with you, and day trips as a family. I simply will not live this way.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have said what you like to do, but you have given no specific reasons for the split. I'd suggest adding something before the last statement.

"However, I don't believe that you are fulfulling the daily needs of family life such as financial and domestic support."
Just my thoughts.
good luck.

Anne,

I like it, with the following caveat:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I care about you. I enjoy your company. I love going out on dates with you, vacationing with you, and day trips as a family. I simply will not live this way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Between the first sentence (saying good stuff), and the second sentence (saying stuff it), there's no transition. I'd suggest either adding a sentence, or at least the conjunction "but".

example:

... and day trips as a family; however, I simply cannot continue to live in this way with you.