one last question then

I don't understand legally divorced and not legally divorced in Maryland... but whatever...

I'm just curious to see if you'd talked with your minister about dating, and who your dating, etc. because it seems that you are beginning to pull as many "exceptions to the rules" out of your hat, as you are confronted with the issues. It was interesting to see your response about the potential of being the OM...

Silken threads to chains... you know the scripture I'm talking about. Beware of the excuses to be an exception to the rules of conduct befitting your covenants.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Aly:
<strong>Lyxa,
I think it's great you are making new friends.
I hope she can't turn around and say you were WH.
It seems at this point it's gone beyond that.
I've been reading your posts for a while. If anyone needs to move on it's you. Maybe meeting some new people will restore your trust in women.
I'm surprised at the response to your post.
You were spending too much time dealing with your WW and her drama. Maybe when she catches wind you are moving on she will leave you alone.
I hope this gal is good to you. Remember, she might be a little messed up right now too.
I think you posted in the right place. Divorcing/Divorced is a process. I think the sour grapes are victims of WS's. They are still too close to the pain to get where you are.
I hope your date went well.

Aly</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sour grapes Aly???!?!?!!? No, just BS's who don't want to become WS's. Until a divorce is final, it isn't final, and even then, sometimes in a person's heart it isn't final. IMO you need time to focus on yourself instead of another person- you need to value yourself and your relationship with Christ first and foremost, so you can have a healthy relationship in the future and not make the same mistakes....Why the big hurry?

OK I read this post yesterday then I reread it today - and I have got to say - I don't see what the big deal is... I am thinking that if going out with this woman makes Lyxa happy and they are both mature adults and both of their marriages are over - then go for it ... You only live once...OK so before anyone starts screaming at me - let me give you some background.. My husband just cheated on me .. No fighting no nothing we were married for 15 years - he just decided he wasn't "happy" and decided to totally screw with my head for over a year... Now the thing that I don't get is why can't someone who is seperated or actually pretty much through the divorce process date?? - My god most of the WS - were dating while married--- I read alot of the posts around here - and on GQ II and some of the people - my god I want to shake and say wake up it is over.... I am now divorced - not by choice mind you - but you cannot have a marriage that is onesided...If the spouse has decided it is over - then at some point you have to say ok I guess it is whether you want to or not...I don't understand why everyone was all over Lyxa - and why does the spouse who has been faithful - have to wait until everything is a done deal before they can start to feel good about themselves ??? What about the boost to their self esteem that most people need - after being basically screwed over??? I know people are going to be all over me... But you know what my husband came clean on 10-12-01 - he said he wanted the marriage to work - but basically screwed with my head until April -2002 - and I said ok - fine you want a divorce you got it... I mean it has really done a number on my head and was starting to really effect my children (girls 10 and 13) - so in September I was divorced - it was final in Ocotber - and it wasn't absolute until January... Now I have been kind of seeing someone - who is going for his divorce on May 27th - his wife has a boyfriend - we are helping each other through the pain of being left... Now is there something wrong with that??? Lyxa I say if she makes you happy go for it !!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>OK I read this post yesterday then I reread it today - and I have got to say - I don't see what the big deal is... I am thinking that if going out with this woman makes Lyxa happy and they are both mature adults and both of their marriages are over - then go for it ... You only live once...OK so before anyone starts screaming at me - let me give you some background.. My husband just cheated on me .. No fighting no nothing we were married for 15 years - he just decided he wasn't "happy" and decided to totally screw with my head for over a year... Now the thing that I don't get is why can't someone who is seperated or actually pretty much through the divorce process date?? - My god most of the WS - were dating while married--- I read alot of the posts around here - and on GQ II and some of the people - my god I want to shake and say wake up it is over.... I am now divorced - not by choice mind you - but you cannot have a marriage that is onesided...If the spouse has decided it is over - then at some point you have to say ok I guess it is whether you want to or not...I don't understand why everyone was all over Lyxa - and why does the spouse who has been faithful - have to wait until everything is a done deal before they can start to feel good about themselves ??? What about the boost to their self esteem that most people need - after being basically screwed over??? I know people are going to be all over me... But you know what my husband came clean on 10-12-01 - he said he wanted the marriage to work - but basically screwed with my head until April -2002 - and I said ok - fine you want a divorce you got it... I mean it has really done a number on my head and was starting to really effect my children (girls 10 and 13) - so in September I was divorced - it was final in Ocotber - and it wasn't absolute until January... Now I have been kind of seeing someone - who is going for his divorce on May 27th - his wife has a boyfriend - we are helping each other through the pain of being left... Now is there something wrong with that??? Lyxa I say if she makes you happy go for it !!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could NOT agree with you more. My EX and I separated and were in the process of divorce (she filed papers) and she asked that I NOT bring someone around the kids unless I was very serious with them. Well, I upheld my end of the bargain until just weeks after my separation my son told me that mommy took "Bobby and us to dinner". I didnt say anything to WW, but I soon began to date myself....once the WW found out about it, she wigged and followed me all over town in her car one night. She was like " I wanna see who you are going to spend time with and I will follow you all night if needed". I couldnt believe what I was hearing. She had an affair, moved out, started bringing the guy around my kids, and then gets mad when I go out on a date??? You should have seen the look on her face when I told her I KNEW she went to dinner with the OM and my kids weeks before. She could not even reply.....she had this blank stare on her face like......Oh #@$!. Anyhow, my point is why would someone NOT be allowed to date under this kind of circumstance. Basically I knew my marriage WAS over. I did the same thing lyxa did....I dated, and am super glad I did. I met someone wonderful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Good luck lyxa...and God Bless!!!!!

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: ITSOVER ]</small>

I went to mandatory counseling during my divorce proceedings, and the counselors asked us a question. "When should you date again"? The answer...........When ever you feel like it. When ever you are comfortable with dating again. The counselors said there is no set time....it could be right away or it might take years before someone is ready. It sounds like lyxa is ready.....he went didnt he.

I am thinking that if going out with this woman makes Lyxa happy and they are both mature adults and both of their marriages are over
The last 3 words are the key to everything you said.

The marriages are NOT over yet. Perhaps enotionally, yes. Are they both even LEGALLY separatda this point or are they just not living together waiting for the divorce to be finalized.
Lyxa's seems to be pretty final (not really sure) but has Tracy even filed yet?

To put it back to what I posted earlier, you are married until you are no longer (religiously/legally) married. If it is only an emotional connection you are concerned about, then the spouse having an affair is doing nothing wrong.

If you are going to date, you should be extremely careful that you are not emotionally using the new person when you still may have feelings for your stbx. So many BS's have developed serious relationships prior to their divorce and later reconciled with their WS, leaving a devastated, betrayed, inocent person in their wake, who took them at their word that they M was over. This to me is morally abhorrent.

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

My 2 cents:

Every situation is different. In my heart, I couldn't/wouldn't date until I absolutely knew without a shadow of a doubt it was over. I tried one last appeal for WH to go to Christian counseling, and he refused.

Honestly, I've been happier on my own (after the initial "Oh my God I'm single shock") than I was the the past 5 years of my marriage. I spend 2 years in Plan A (although I didn't know about MB then, but was going on advice of mom-in-law). I didn't nag, argue, etc, and I accepted his "friendship" with OW which eventually led to EA/PA. (They were seeing each other outside of work for 2 years) Now, after going through 2 years of coming home from work, cooking supper, taking care of the kids, cleaning up, and him going and doing whatever he wanted with OW without argument from me, I think I'm owed some friendship/male companionship with someone who thinks my WH was absolutely crazy for leaving me. I lived in an emotional hell for 2 years, seriously, and after we split, 6 months or so, after he refused to go to counseling, a friend (who actually graduated with WH from high school), started asking me out. I may be wrong for going, but I don't think so. We did not do anything physical (and still haven't had sex) until dv proceedings were in place.

This new person in my life has helped me move on. It may or may not work out, and I'm very guarded and know about "rebound relationships", but at least I know now that I'm seen as valuable by someone, after being torn down by WH. So, Lyxa, as long as everything is final as far as the break up goes, I say move on.

This is not so much about Lyxa as it is about dating while married.

People seem to think it is okay, "if the marriage is over." But as I said above, when is the marriage really over?
Is it over when one spouse says it is?
Is it over if no papers are ever filed? ITSOVER said earlier, "So if one spouse up and leaves and refuses to divorce. The other spouse can never date again?"

So the bounds of marriage should be respected until you don't agree with them anymore? Then you just move the bounds to fit your "new ideals?"

I couldn't/wouldn't date until I absolutely knew without a shadow of a doubt it was over.
When is that? How about when a divorce is complete?

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Ok well what I don't understand - is why should the BS be the only that respects the bounds of matrimony... I mean really - it is over when the other person goes to someone else and does not want to reconcile.... It just usually takes the BS alot longer to accept that reality of the situation... No one wants to admit that it is over especially when you are trying so hard to keep it together... So lets say that for example - your wife/husband and you are in the process of a divorce - but there are tons of financial disputes and or custody issues and the divorce drags on for years - but the whole time your stbx is dating and or living with someone else - you are suppose to stay by yourself all of this time - just so you can say that you stayed true to your marriage.... And as for the emotional issue with a new person... I agree - I mean I am seeing someone who is going through the same exact thing... I understand that he still loves his wife and he understands that I still have some feelings for my husband - and you know what that is ok with us... We know that even though we didn't want this to happen our marriages are over... But why should we sit around waiting for whatever... Why shouldn't we try to move on and be happy.... That is my question??? And Chris I don't know your story really - so I don't know your situation - but I have got to tell you... One date at a time I feel 100% better about myself - that someone thinks that I am worthy to be with... That even though my husband tossed me away - that I can in some small simple way make someone else happy... I don't plan on having a major relationship with this person - but for now - we are good for each other... And just because he is not divorced yet - that is ok - because if anyone I understand what he is dealing with on a day to day basis... Why does the BS have to be so nobel - holding up their side of the marriage vows when their spouse could give a crap???

why should the BS be the only that respects the bounds of matrimony
You mean, why should one person do what's right? If someone is disrespectful, then why can't everyone be disrespectful?

but the whole time your stbx is dating and or living with someone else - you are suppose to stay by yourself all of this time - just so you can say that you stayed true to your marriage
If you're getting divorced, why are you so concerned with whether they are dating or not?

but I have got to tell you... One date at a time I feel 100% better about myself
Of course you feel better. Having someone pay attention to you is a GREAT feeling especially after the crap that goes with an affair in a marriage.
But does that mean it's "okay?" Like I said before, a spouse having an affair feels the same things you are describing. So why is that wrong?

I don't plan on having a major relationship with this person
This is how most relationships start. Without expectations.

Why does the BS have to be so nobel - holding up their side of the marriage vows when their spouse could give a crap???
From dictionary.com;
"noble
adj 1: having high moral qualities; "a noble spirit"; "a solid citizen"; "an upstanding man"

So you don't want to have high morals or do the right thing? Because your spouse is a [censored] means you should do it to? You have the right to make your own choices and do (just about) anything you please. But just because you can doesn't mean you should.

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

It's over when BOTH parties involved agree it's over, and one party (or both) broke the covenant made with God. I feel that i have the choice of whether or not to reconcile with my WH since he is the one who committed adultery. I chose to try to reconcile, he chose not to. "Legal" divorces take place differently according to what state or country you live in. I have a hard time believing that once both parties agree it's over, one (or both) have committed adultery, and they live apart as a result of this with no desire to reconcile, that the marriage can't be considered over just because a nameless/faceless judge hasn't signed a piece of paper. Just because a judge decides to take a 2:00 break and go play golf on Friday and doesn't sign my paper until the following Monday, I don't think this makes any difference in the end of the marriage. My WH broke the covenant of our marriage in June, 2002, without me knowing (if you consider an EA as adultery, then it happened before then). I consider my marriage over as of Jan 2003 when I finally realized I was better off living on my own.

I may be wrong in thinking this way, but that is the way my mind considers it.

Chris - OK you are getting the wrong idea here - I am divorced - I didn't start seeing anyone until I was totally divorced but that was because emotionally I was not ready - But the point I am trying to make - is just because I didn't date anyone - or you are not dating anyone - doesn't mean that Lyxa cannot and should be condemned for doing so... Like I said I read alot of the stuff here and alot of what some people put up with is ridiculous - Like Kimmy said she felt divorced when she started being on her own.. I am not even sure that I feel divorced - I will say I was quite devastated... And in my heart I wished that I could have been one of those people who just picked up and moved on very quickly I probably could have saved myself alot of pain... You cannot have a marriage with one person... No ifs, ands or butts about it... And just because he was a [censored] - by cheating etc... I don't think that I would have been a [censored] if I had started dating before my divorce was final... We can all hope and pray that our marriages will be restored but you cannot change that other person... I hope and pray someday he regrets what he did - so I can tell him it is way to late...But I truly believe you need to move on to make yourself happy.... What is your situation???

One date at a time I feel 100% better about myself - that someone thinks that I am worthy to be with... That even though my husband tossed me away - that I can in some small simple way make someone else happy... I don't plan on having a major relationship with this person - but for now - we are good for each other...

This idea that we have of how life should be is what truly scares me. This is what I think I have woken up and learned the most from this miserable experience. Is that I don't NEED someone else to make me feel worthy. Why put all my worth dependent on what someone thinks of me? And "making someone else happy"- isn't happiness achieved ultimately by that person alone? I don't believe you can "make" someone else happy - you can certainly do everything you can not to hurt them, and you can be the best wife and be thoughtful, but ultimately, it is that person alone who achieves happiness. Oh and is happiness really what life is all about? If so, then that is why a lot of people have affairs- they think that it will make them "happy" to be with someone else. I thought that our ultimate goal in life was to serve the Lord with gladness and love one another as He loved us and serve others and be humble, yet strong in His power, knowing that only by submitting under His authority is our life worth anything....Happiness is circumstantial- finding the love of God is peaceful and freeing. I would take that anyday. Do I want to find love again with a man? Of course I do. I pray for God to send me a man who will love me through His love - whether that be my ex-WH or a new love....My point is, if you are in a rush to date so that someone can make you "feel better" they will ultimately disappoint you. And keeping your marriage vows is not only "noble" but Godly. He will judge and HE will bless those who do.

TMCM,
I have read many of your posts and you seem to most always be on track with your posts- I have learned a lot from yours and I am curious about your story?

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

If anyone feels I am "condemning" them for this, my apologies.

First & foremost, everyone will do what they want regardless of ANYTHING else.

BUT, you should understand the what's and why's of what you are doing and not change rules midstream "just because."

Briefly, my situation is that my wife of 19 years had an affair (3rd actually as I have found out) and took off 5 weeks later. I have seen her 3 times in the last 4+ years. She has only seen our daughters 2 times since she left. She has not spoken to them since Jan of LAST year. I divorced her in Jan of last year and she doesn't even know it yet.

I was devastated. Do I have issues? Sure, don't we all. But to say, "just get over it" is bad whether it comes from the ws or from others.

Now I don't feel that any "issues" I may have are what makes me vocal in these forums. It's the fact that I have seen so much anguish and pain in these forums and almost everyone does the same tings when they are handed a situation. Unless they get educated, they WILL do the same thing everyone else has because they don't know any different.

And believe it or not, people come to these forums to get educated. But sometimes, they don't want to read the info or try what it suggests. I would rather learn by other peoples mistakes than get hurt myself. Besides, if it "feels good", then people think it is the right thing to do. Dating someone new usually makes you feel good.

But people are only human and mistakes we will make, even when presented with info which is a 100% guarantee we will fail if we do something different.

(Plenty of rambling, I know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Also, why choose marriage to begin with? It's "just paperwork?" Why not just live together?

Because marriage meant something to you to begin with. Why does it mean less now simply because your spouse says they don't love you anymore?

I do still believe in marriage and all it represents and I will stand up for those beliefs.

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Chris - Wow - I give you alot of credit for hanging in there for 4+ years - but let me ask you a question - Do you think if she was in the picture and you saw her day in and day out because of your children and she was telling you that she didn't want to be with you etc. - do you think you would still be married??? I mean out of site is probably alot easier to deal with !!! How long do you plan to wait until you move on with your life??? I mean don't you deserve to have a healthy relationship??? You don't have to answer I am just curious !!! And yes you should be happy with yourself only but - when you go through something as devestating as this sometimes finding happiness within takes a long time... You know I truly believed in marriage - I don't really believe in divorce - but I can tell you I don't think I will be getting married again... This divorce almost killed me for sure.... I don't think I could ever go through it again...

when you go through something as devestating as this sometimes finding happiness within takes a long time

Which is my point exactly. If you can't find it within and depend on someone else to do it, you either drag them down with you or you end up breaking their heart.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong>I am thinking that if going out with this woman makes Lyxa happy and they are both mature adults and both of their marriages are over
The last 3 words are the key to everything you said.

The marriages are NOT over yet. Perhaps enotionally, yes. Are they both even LEGALLY separatda this point or are they just not living together waiting for the divorce to be finalized.
Lyxa's seems to be pretty final (not really sure) but has Tracy even filed yet?

To put it back to what I posted earlier, you are married until you are no longer (religiously/legally) married. If it is only an emotional connection you are concerned about, then the spouse having an affair is doing nothing wrong.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ya know?.....who really cares? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Does it really matter? Over is over.

Most people stay divorced from each other after it final, than get back together anyhow. Also, most people divorce once they are seperated anyhow. If you know in your heart its over does it really and truly matter. Noone is going to hell for dating during divorce proceedings.

I did edit my post above a bit. I am not married as of Jan last year. I divorced her.

Even if there had been interaction with us, I don't know if I would have stayed married to her. If I had know yesterdays lotto numbers, I would have picked them yesterday morning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

But I didn't want to regret making a decision too soon. Harley says to wait 2.5 years and I did. Everyone thinks it's crazy to wait that long. I did too at first. But looking back I'm glad I did.

How long do you plan to wait until you move on with your life??? I mean don't you deserve to have a healthy relationship???
I believe everyone "deserves" a healthy relationship. But does everyone "need" to be in a relationship?

Why do people think they be dating to be fulfilled? And why are they in such a hurry to do it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not avoiding it. But I haven't felt the "need" to start actively seeking a relationship. If one develops, great. I'd be the happiest guy in the world.

I've got enough going on in my life to do right now (kids to look after and a new job, housework, etc.)

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Question for Chris

Are you divorced?
Have you gone out on a date yet?
How long have you and W been apart?

I will wait on the answers, but.....if you havent dated, are you truly gonna wait for the W to return? Are you willing to let your life fade away waiting, when there could be another to make you happy or happier slip by? Why would you do that. If I would not have gone out with my current fiance, I would have missed her more than likely. My soulmate and my BEST FRIEND! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />